EEVblog 1389 - Spanish Solar Pavement STUPIDITY

[EEVblog]

A government in Barecelona Spain has paid 30,000 euro for a 9kW solar pavement from Platio.
This perennial favorite topic never ceases to provide debunking entertainment!

[SeanB]

I can definitely say the SA government will never do solar roadways or pavements. the cost and the idiocacy is not the thing that will stop them, it is that the minister of energy has a massive want to have good old LPG power ships from Turkey come in, as there is a massive payment back to the corrupt from it, and a continuing flow of money from the "connected" companies that make a massive mark up on the LPG they will import to use. The same SOE that was paying $10 for a roll of toilet paper, and $2 per black garbage bag, along with $100 for a simple wooden broom, because the suppliers were "preferred suppliers" on the books, and they were "urgently needed supplies". Solar power is way too much of an effective thing, plus there is little room for the beneficiation from continued suppliers.

There is a whole commission on about it at the moment, with all blaming the other, and nobody was at all responsible, it was done by "others". You can watch it on YT live, but be prepared to suspend belief a lot.

[SiliconWizard]

Ahaha. This is just endless. 

Idiocracy!

[mindcrime]

At this point, one wonders if this entire topic doesn't just deserve a:

 

[Refrigerator]

But when your boss comes to you with this "great new project" and it turns out to be this, what do you do?
I can't imagine any engineer that is smart enough to build one of these to not be smart enough to realize how ridiculous it is. 

[tszaboo]

So its a Platio project. I looked into Platio a bit more, and found technical information for it. It's no datasheet, but all the info is there:
https://www.mnnsz.hu/napelemes-jarda-kulteri-alkalmazasokhoz/

Panel: Mono or polycrystalline, 4 cell each
Size: 34x34
Price: 50-80 EUR each
Peak power: 186W per square meter, and about 20-30W per panel
It doesnt have a microinverter, it requires an extra inverter. Probably DC optimizers, but this is just a guess. You cannot really put that much electronics into 50 EUR.
The plastic is recycled PET.
It comes with 5 year warranty.

Yes, they should put it on the roofs.

[vodka]

But when your boss comes to you with this "great new project" and it turns out to be this, what do you do?
I can't imagine any engineer that is smart enough to build one of these to not be smart enough to realize how ridiculous it is. 

While the engineer recieves 84000 € per year and he may  do his nepotism when he is in public office,the sense of ridicule ,not matter.

Here , we have   politician that waste the public money.

Eloi Badia Casas
Barcelona, ​​March 29, 1983
Charges:

Councilor for the Presidency,
Councilor for Water and Energy
Councilor of the District of Gràcia
Academic training

Industrial Engineering (Higher Technical School of Industrial Engineering of
Barcelona)

Professional career
Between 2007 and 2015 he was responsible for the Engineering Without Water campaign
Fronteres,
 member of the Board of Directors of the Spanish Association of Public Operators
of Water Supply and Sanitation,
of the Advisory Committee of the Water and Sanitation Fund of the
Spanish Government and the Steering Committee of the Global Water Operators Partnership
UN-Habitat Alliance.

It has driven a change of model towards asset management common, through the platform Water is Life, the Network for Sovereignty
Energy and the Alliance against Energy Poverty.

Additional information

He has participated in cooperation projects in Ecuador, Argentina, India,
Uruguay and Paraguay to ensure universal access to water and energy and the
food sovereignty. He has also been a listener and head of the Group
Listen and Guide Pau Claris.

Salary

The salary is 84,532 euros per year, which is a net monthly salary of 2,200
euros, for 14 payments, after applying the code of ethics of "Barcelona en Comú".
Update date
January 2017

https://ajuntament.barcelona.cat/agenda/bc/es/eloi-badia-casas#

Laia Bonet Rull
Curriculum vitae

Agenda

Councilwoman - Municipal Council


Third Deputy Mayor
Area Management - 2030 Agenda Area(“You'll own nothing and you'll be happy."), Digital Transition, Sports and Territorial and Metropolitan Coordination

Assigned councilwoman - District of Grace

Assigned councilwoman - District of Sant Andreu

Spokesperson - Board of Spokespersons

Member - Government Commission

Member - Committee on the Presidency, Citizenship Rights, Participation and Security and Prevention

Member - Commission of Ecology, Urbanism, Infrastructures and Mobility

President - Municipal Institute of Computer Science of Barcelona

Vice-president - Municipal Institute of Urbanism
Vocal - Municipal Institute of Housing and Rehabilitation of Barcelona
Vice President - Municipal Institute of Urban Landscape and Quality of Life

Chair - Bit Executive Committee
Vice President - Fomento de Ciudad, SA
First Vice President - Barcelona Institute of Technology for the Habitat
First Vice President - Barcelona Local Energy Agency

Salary: 98,192 euros

https://ajuntament.barcelona.cat/agenda/psc/es/laia-bonet-rull#

[tszaboo]

But when your boss comes to you with this "great new project" and it turns out to be this, what do you do?
I can't imagine any engineer that is smart enough to build one of these to not be smart enough to realize how ridiculous it is. 

Honestly, I am less and less sure if this is a ridiculous idea.
This is apparently an engineering guy working there:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/zsolt-kalmar-b5667310b/

He worked 4 years building a car tire to energy burning plant, another 4 years as a boss in a waste recycling plant overseeing 180 people, another 4 years in a recycled plastic plant.
I agree, that we should place solar panels on the roof. But this company seems to specialize in niche applications.

[james_s]

But when your boss comes to you with this "great new project" and it turns out to be this, what do you do?
I can't imagine any engineer that is smart enough to build one of these to not be smart enough to realize how ridiculous it is. 

Start interviewing at other companies.

[Refrigerator]

But when your boss comes to you with this "great new project" and it turns out to be this, what do you do?
I can't imagine any engineer that is smart enough to build one of these to not be smart enough to realize how ridiculous it is. 

Honestly, I am less and less sure if this is a ridiculous idea.
This is apparently an engineering guy working there:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/zsolt-kalmar-b5667310b/

He worked 4 years building a car tire to energy burning plant, another 4 years as a boss in a waste recycling plant overseeing 180 people, another 4 years in a recycled plastic plant.
I agree, that we should place solar panels on the roof. But this company seems to specialize in niche applications.

I guess some people take it as an engineering challenge.

[nctnico]

But when your boss comes to you with this "great new project" and it turns out to be this, what do you do?
I can't imagine any engineer that is smart enough to build one of these to not be smart enough to realize how ridiculous it is. 

Honestly, I am less and less sure if this is a ridiculous idea.

Indeed. You can think about economy of scale (electricity from large scale solar costs half compared to rooftop solar), think about whether the heatsinking effect of the ground keeps the panels cooler which in turns improves efficiency and whether dirt is actually a problem given wavelength and dirt build-up on solar panels in general (I really wish rain would keep my 35 degree angle roof windows clean... but it doesn't).

[james_s]

  

[jonovid]

I remember when green politics was just extreme fringe group, not to be taken seriously. hippie politics! 
nowadays globalist bankers and so-called green politics!  government pay energy subsidies for just about anything with solar on it or in it 

[graybeard]

Instead of talking about another stupid solar road idea, since we all understand it is utter idiocy, it might be good to do a video on good solar ideas.

Solar canals seem like a good idea.  The panels are place above canals and not only generate power, but reduce evaporative water loss from the canals.

India was the first to do this and it seems to be successful.  California is now considering doing it on the canals in the central valley.

I'm sure the mixture of electricity and water offers some engineering challenges.  It would be extremely interesting if you explored those.

[james_s]

Electricity and water is largely a solved problem a long time ago. We already have power distribution and lighting on docks in marinas, we have undersea power transmission cables, there is underground wiring in areas that have a lot of rain and soggy ground, there have been underwater lights in swimming pools for decades. I don't think solar over canals would be anything new in that respect.

[nctnico]

Instead of talking about another stupid solar road idea, since we all understand it is utter idiocy, it might be good to do a video on good solar ideas.

Solar canals seem like a good idea.  The panels are place above canals and not only generate power, but reduce evaporative water loss from the canals.

The problem I see is that putting solar panels over waterways -effectively blocking the sun- will severely disturb the aquatic life in the water and probably cause massive bacteria / algea problems (with associated health hazzards and smell). Solar panels over canals will only be suitable for canals which are used for fast running water (like during a rain season) and are dry for most of the year.

[tszaboo]

Instead of talking about another stupid solar road idea, since we all understand it is utter idiocy, it might be good to do a video on good solar ideas.

Solar canals seem like a good idea.  The panels are place above canals and not only generate power, but reduce evaporative water loss from the canals.

The problem I see is that putting solar panels over waterways -effectively blocking the sun- will severely disturb the aquatic life in the water and probably cause massive bacteria / algea problems (with associated health hazzards and smell). Solar panels over canals will only be suitable for canals which are used for fast running water (like during a rain season) and are dry for most of the year.

Those canals have a very different reason than what we have here at the end of the street. They are used to supply cities with fresh water. The entire canal is paved with concrete and they drain it every now and then to get rid of all the junk and life in it. It's more like an artificial river.
Placing solar panels above them 100% makes sense.

[Refrigerator]

Instead of talking about another stupid solar road idea, since we all understand it is utter idiocy, it might be good to do a video on good solar ideas.

Solar canals seem like a good idea.  The panels are place above canals and not only generate power, but reduce evaporative water loss from the canals.

The problem I see is that putting solar panels over waterways -effectively blocking the sun- will severely disturb the aquatic life in the water and probably cause massive bacteria / algea problems (with associated health hazzards and smell). Solar panels over canals will only be suitable for canals which are used for fast running water (like during a rain season) and are dry for most of the year.

Those canals have a very different reason than what we have here at the end of the street. They are used to supply cities with fresh water. The entire canal is paved with concrete and they drain it every now and then to get rid of all the junk and life in it. It's more like an artificial river.
Placing solar panels above them 100% makes sense.

Also doesn't algae require light to live? If solar panels block the light there might even be less contamination because there would be less life happening in the water.

[jonovid]

solar down on the ground  is a publicity stunt! its only stupidity if its repeated throughout a whole nation.
solar on or in roofing from a publicity point of view,    fails to get any attention as not many of us, can see it,
same go's for solid state batteries, only when electric vehicles become cheap and long range at the same time will they go mainstream IMO
 

[tszaboo]

solar down on the ground  is a publicity stunt! its only stupidity if its repeated throughout a whole nation.
solar on or in roofing from a publicity point of view,    fails to get any attention as not many of us, can see it,
same go's for solid state batteries, only when electric vehicles become cheap and long range at the same time will they go mainstream IMO

Well, because of this:

[james_s]

There are places other than roofs that would make sense once every feasible roof and existing roof-like structure is already covered, but until then it isn't really worth discussing, we are a long, long way from having to get creative in finding places to put solar panels.

[nctnico]

Instead of talking about another stupid solar road idea, since we all understand it is utter idiocy, it might be good to do a video on good solar ideas.

Solar canals seem like a good idea.  The panels are place above canals and not only generate power, but reduce evaporative water loss from the canals.

The problem I see is that putting solar panels over waterways -effectively blocking the sun- will severely disturb the aquatic life in the water and probably cause massive bacteria / algea problems (with associated health hazzards and smell). Solar panels over canals will only be suitable for canals which are used for fast running water (like during a rain season) and are dry for most of the year.

Those canals have a very different reason than what we have here at the end of the street. They are used to supply cities with fresh water. The entire canal is paved with concrete and they drain it every now and then to get rid of all the junk and life in it. It's more like an artificial river.
Placing solar panels above them 100% makes sense.

Also doesn't algae require light to live? If solar panels block the light there might even be less contamination because there would be less life happening in the water.

It is not that simple. A quick Google shows that algae can also thrive in low light conditions because plants can't grow but algae do; the nutrients have to go somewhere.

[kaz911]

Spain is funny with solar - especially grid connected.

There is hardly any solar PV in Spain - compared to the amount of sunlight. And that is all due to government protection of the energy companies revenue.

All the energy companies are so inefficient that they have huge debts. So private solar energy is discouraged as it could take money away from the electricity companies.

In Spain you pay electricity  in 2 ways - you pay a "connection charge" for the cable potential maximum output and then you pay for your actual consumption. And it ain't cheap. I think I pay Euro 80,- per month for a peak 12 or 16 kWh  connection - and my consumption is only 50-60 Euro / month. So Spain has "low" (not) /kWh prices but the "standing charge" is gigantic. In the UK my connection charge is about GBP 9/month but no "peak" consumption limit apart from the "cable / road" limit.

[tszaboo]

Spain is funny with solar - especially grid connected.

But they have the largest amount of concentrated solar power.
AFAIK they messed up the subsidy scheme, people were running diesel generators all day to get the solar subsidy and there was a huge backlash.
Honestly, Europe shouldn't let them handle their solar production, just buy half a province and fill it up with panels.