EEVblog 1480 - Lightyear Zero Solar Powered Electric Car

[EEVblog]

Are solar powered electric cars viable? Let's look at the Lightyear Zero solar powered electric car and examine the claims. Can you get a useless extended range by adding solar panels to an electric car?
Dave just so happens to drive a solar powered electric car, so let's find out!

[ataradov]

Imagine maintenance cost on this. All the exposed surfaces on the car are made out of glass.

Also, no rear view mirrors, so I assume they are relying on displays. This not not even legal in most places.

[Bud]

Might work somewhere in Saudi Arabia ...
And what is the deal with the "vegan interior" 

[innis226]

How do these guys get funding? Don't Venture Capatalists have technical people of their own telling them this is just wankery?

[jonovid]

to be viable IMO
any solar powered electric Car needs to be like 1900 classic antique car design with a big 1kw flattop solar roof over an open-air cab with motorbike spoked type wheels.
with a top speed of only 80kmh.  a metropolitan shopping car/ cart , you park outdoors as it has its own carport for a roof.   also the solar roof can be a type of roll cage
and windscreen support with a gap at the top for better aerodynamics.    higher performance then any golf cart.   ABS disc brakes ,  anti-roll bars.  low center of gravity floor.

[thm_w]

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/lightyear-one-solar-car/

Imagine maintenance cost on this. All the exposed surfaces on the car are made out of glass.

Also, no rear view mirrors, so I assume they are relying on displays. This not not even legal in most places.

The sides are not glass right? I don't see how maintenance is worse unless you smash the glass.
Expensive cars are expensive to repair already, don't think the owner of a 250k car cares much.

[Marco]

Wind shields are supplied by a competitive industry.

I've changed my mind, I don't think the solar roof is a bad idea in and of itself. If you like the aesthetics. Getting one without a long running contract guaranteeing low cost availability of replacement roof glass is a bad idea though.

[bdunham7]

How do these guys get funding? Don't Venture Capatalists have technical people of their own telling them this is just wankery?

You think VCs don't intentionally fund wankery? 

[Marco]

And what is the deal with the "vegan interior"

They don't want to say imitation leather.

[McBryce]

Are solar powered electric cars viable? Let's look at the Lightyear Zero solar powered electric car and examine the claims. Can you get a useless extended range by adding solar panels to an electric car?
Dave just so happens to drive a solar powered electric car, so let's find out!

Hi Dave,
take a look at Sono Motors https://sonomotors.com/ too when you get a chance. Their claims and figures are equally questionable and to top it all they have solar panels on the sides too!

McBryce.

[wraper]

And what is the deal with the "vegan interior" 

Virtue signaling for those "concerned" about cattle being butchered. And who do not bother to figure out that no cattle are butchered for leather, as it's just a mostly unwanted byproduct of meat processing. More of which goes to waste as cheaper "Vegan leather" becomes more prevalent.

[Marco]

The leather still sells, just for cheaper. Reducing the profits of animal agriculture byproducts increases the price of beef, decreases consumption. Perfectly internally consistent with vegan aims.

[wraper]

The leather still sells, just for cheaper. Reducing the profits of animal agriculture byproducts increases the price of beef, decreases consumption. Perfectly internally consistent with vegan aims.

These days butchers usually give it away for almost free or completely free because otherwise they need to pay for disposal. Almost all of the cost comes from processing, not cowhide itself. All of this vegan garbage results in discarding perfectly good natural material which is biodegradable and instead selling oil derived garbage which usually is way less lasting and at the same time not biodegradable. The result is filling landfills with a lot of garbage which will not decompose for many centuries. Go green, yay!

[Marco]

butchers

What old timey butchers do is neither here nor there. The meat and potato are the meat processing plants, dealing with butchers is just too much work for mass production of anything. Whether it be the cream of the crop for leather, or the rest for gelatin. Which the vegans also don't eat, ever so slightly running down the price and ever so slightly the ROI of rearing cattle. Then there's rendering, biogas fermentation, composting. It doesn't go to waste, it just goes to minimal profit.

Regardless, vegans aren't the cause there's too much cowhide to make into leather ... the cause is that we eat so much beef.

[thm_w]

That and vegan leather does not need to be made from oil, it can be made from a number of sources. Hell they even state "Vegan interior with naturally sourced materials".
Of course, doesn't mean its any good as a material.

https://www.greenmatters.com/p/vegan-leather-made-from-plants

[Bud]

I wonder how many cows would need to be sucrificed to make interior of this car, were it non-vegan. Perhaps not many.

[coppice]

Might work somewhere in Saudi Arabia ...
And what is the deal with the "vegan interior" 

Most of the stuff called vegan leather seems to be the kinds of low end plastic materials we've been finding passing for leather in furniture for years, that starts to flake and crumble quite quickly. There's quite a lot of real leather furniture where only the main face of a seat is real leather, and they use some garbage for the side pieces, that flakes after 5 years. Watch out for Ikea office chairs.

[JPortici]

Imagine maintenance cost on this. All the exposed surfaces on the car are made out of glass.

Also, no rear view mirrors, so I assume they are relying on displays. This not not even legal in most places.

Had to work on a maserati MC20. Rear camera and high resolution display shaped as the rear view mirror. I could litterally not tell until i turned to look and saw that the rear window was all cluttered by the engine. probably charging 5k for that system alone, but it was seamless. probably better quality than any screen i saw in my life and nothing, i repeat NOTHING like any screen you have ever seen in a car

[ataradov]

Had to work on a maserati MC20. Rear camera and high resolution display shaped as the rear view mirror. I could litterally not tell until i turned to look and saw that the rear window was all cluttered by the engine. probably charging 5k for that system alone, but it was seamless. probably better quality than any screen i saw in my life and nothing, i repeat NOTHING like any screen you have ever seen in a car

Sure, but the laws are not created for $5k systems, they are created for typical junk you will see on the roads. And that's why it is illegal in many places. It looks like it is legal in Europe, which is nice I guess.

But a very common concern that I've seen with cameras and displays that you don't see in static tests is the amount of time it takes to refocus your eyes. With a real mirror this process is instantaneous, but with the camera and display you are not looking though the optics and your eyes need to refocus on the display and then back on the road. This causes fatigue. I have not tried, so I can't tell how real this issue is.

And it is just more unnecessary shit that can break, of course.

And small aperture of the camera can get dirty much easier. If you drive in a place where there is snow and dirt, you are screwed. But in that case you are screwed with a solar car anyway.

[wraper]

butchers

What old timey butchers do is neither here nor there. The meat and potato are the meat processing plants, dealing with butchers is just too much work for mass production of anything.

I didn't mean butcher as individual. Call it a slaughterhouse, whatever. English is not my native language.

Regardless, vegans aren't the cause there's too much cowhide to make into leather ... the cause is that we eat so much beef.

It's people who want to be "responsible", or want to be on the right side of public opinion, therefore buy synthetic junk. It does not stop them eating meat though.

[golden_labels]

Do you need to visit a car wash before each travel, so the cells’ output was not limited by dust?

To people concerned about rear mirrors: a lot of cars do not have those, because there is a solid wall behind the seats or are packed with cargo in normal use. I do not know about legal status of that all around the world, but this is common enough to be somehow addressed in the regulations. Relying on a display is not an issue for a car where literally everything relies on electronics. A display can also deliver much better experience. I’m using a panoramic rear mirror myself and all I can tell about the standard rear mirrors mounted in cars is: from that perspective they seem like useless gimmick.

[tszaboo]

Might work somewhere in Saudi Arabia ...
And what is the deal with the "vegan interior" 

Most of the stuff called vegan leather seems to be the kinds of low end plastic materials we've been finding passing for leather in furniture for years, that starts to flake and crumble quite quickly. There's quite a lot of real leather furniture where only the main face of a seat is real leather, and they use some garbage for the side pieces, that flakes after 5 years. Watch out for Ikea office chairs.

I'm like 90% sure there is a combined industry push to produce interiors to cars that basically decompose after 5 years of usage. Look at all the black piano shiny plastics that gets scratched up at daily usage, and collects dust. They are using intentionally obsolete tech in the dashboard, which already looks outdated now, imagine it in 5-10 years. The low quality imitation leather fits into this perfectly.
Nobody would want to buy a 5 YO used car after it looks like a chewed up dog toy on the inside.
And this is still better than the turbochargers that blows up at 5 year 1 day, like clockwork.

[cortex_m0]

The solar car is actually more viable than I would have guessed.

The $26,000 starting price for the Aptera would make it the cheapest EV on the market in the USA, and even the upgrade from the base 250 mi battery to the 600 mi battery would still keep it in the top 5 cheapest category.

Perhaps the market niche it fills best is the person who lives in an apartment and has no means of plugging in a BEV at their apartment complex. Public chargers are pricey (relative to at-home charging). A car that could generate 20 to 40 miles of range per day would extend the interval between public charger sessions, potentially significantly.

[SiliconWizard]

Imagine maintenance cost on this. All the exposed surfaces on the car are made out of glass.

Yep. A ridiculous amount of extra energy, huge maintenance (not even talking about repair!) costs, and the average price of a Lamborghini. What's not to like?

[nctnico]

Imagine maintenance cost on this. All the exposed surfaces on the car are made out of glass.

What maintenance costs? The windows on my cars typically last the lifetime of a car unless somebody breaks one. Also many modern cars have large glass areas (like the roof and rear hood) because glass is relatively cheap while offering a lot of structural integrity (on most modern cars the windshield is giving the car a lot of structural integrity).

IMHO whether putting solar panels on a car is a good idea depends on the ROI. If the solar panel pays for itself in saved electricity / fuel costs (hybrid) then I'd say go for it.