EEVblog 1497 - RIP Fluke. Thanks Energizer. NOT.

[Tek_TDS220]

I think the Fluke cases are attacked by strong base because they are polycarbonate (or a blend with polycarbonate).  Polycarbonate has higher impact resistance but is more expensive.  Most multimeter cases are made from polyolefins.  It is less expensive, melts more easily, and is not attacked by base.

[grouchobyte]

https://www.energizer.com/about-batteries/battery-leakage

Not worth the trouble to claim leak damage to Energizer IMHO. I would just trash the meter and never keep alkalines for long periods of time installed in instruments or things of value. Personally, I use leak-resistant, long shelf life primary  lithiums in my stuff. Ya it cost more but then again…..pay now or pay later

@grouchobyte

[ataradov]

The only reason is for content. Just to see what they will do and how they will try to weasel their way out of it.

The batteries clearly leak, even new ones, so they must have a robust system of denying claims.

[grouchobyte]

The only reason is for content. Just to see what they will do and how they will try to weasel their way out of it.

The batteries clearly leak, even new ones, so they must have a robust system of denying claims.

Yes Alex

Of course, you are correct, Energizer will deny its clearly their faulty, low quality product or quality control.
I am dubious of all alkaline battery mfg’rs. In 60+ years of experience going back to the 1950’s I have witnessed tremendous advances in batteries, even Alkalines. However, one thing is consistent. alkalines leak eventually. That is why I avoid them whenever possible and seek better alternatives when appropriate

Bob

[golden_labels]

Not worth the trouble to claim leak damage to Energizer IMHO. I would just trash the meter and never keep alkalines for long periods of time installed in instruments or things of value.

It’s not about financial worth. Obviously the expected outcome is negative. Even if not for Dave, it is for average person. This is why manufacturers may safely make such claims. Dave also have entire boxes of multimeters, so I doubt it’s even a serious loss.

The point is different: it’s opposition to something that may be a deceptive marketing strategy. We already know that “no-leak” alkaline batteries leak and the extent of damage of that is as large as with other models. So you do not receive the advertised product. How much the advertising is misleading is hard to estimate. The leaks may be exceptional cases (nothing is perfect), in which situation it is an acceptable simplifying of the image, but they may as well be an open lie with Energizer batteries not being better than the cheapest nonames. I have no data. But in absence of it, the safest assumption is something in the middle. And that is worth of a reaction.

Since Dave is a YouTuber, he may also do that for entertainment: both his and ours. And to lessen tension: if you see you are not the only one who receives absurd responses and facepalms, it really has a therapeutic value.


As for practical aspects and expectations, I wonder where is all the fine print. In the plain sight we already have “devices may be replaced with a product of comparable market value at the time of claim.” Read as: device age is taken into account and I bet they will use exponential value decay. Since Dave opened the DMM and cleaned it, that is an open gate to say it doesn’t work because of his actions.

[blacksheeplogic]

I think the Fluke cases are attacked by strong base because they are polycarbonate (or a blend with polycarbonate).  Polycarbonate has higher impact resistance but is more expensive.  Most multimeter cases are made from polyolefins.  It is less expensive, melts more easily, and is not attacked by base.

I wonder if Fluke has tweaked the yellow plastic on that meter. The Yellow surround on my 28II has developed a white powder and has started to break down around the meter with sticky yellow plastic residue clinging to the meter, not too dissimilar to the way it had broken down on the video. The Alkaline may have just speed up the process.

[HobGoblyn]

Oddly, I haven’t had a battery leak for years (decades even), about 3 weeks ago a cheapo led torch that takes 3 AA batteries started playing up.

When I saw the amount of leakage inside, I simply threw it away.

These were also Energiser batteries

[EEVblog]

Posting here for the highest chance that you will see it.

Energizer® No Leaks. Guaranteed.
Energizer will repair or replace, at our option, any device damaged by leakage from Energizer MAX® Alkaline batteries either during the life of the battery or within two years following the full use of the battery.

https://www.energizer.com/about-batteries/battery-leakage
Would be interesting to see what they do

Thats' only the Max version.

[Muttley Snickers]

I think their guarantee conditions are region specific as Halcyon pointed out at reply #6 in this thread.

[Fungus]

Why didn't you remove the back case of the meter to clean it instead of washing all the gunk down into the electronics with IPA???

[james_s]

Why do people still use alkaline batteries in expensive equipment? I've been using Eneloop and a few other brands of LSD NiMH for more than a decade and I have yet to experience a leak.

[james_s]

https://www.energizer.com/about-batteries/battery-leakage

Not worth the trouble to claim leak damage to Energizer IMHO. I would just trash the meter and never keep alkalines for long periods of time installed in instruments or things of value. Personally, I use leak-resistant, long shelf life primary  lithiums in my stuff. Ya it cost more but then again…..pay now or pay later

@grouchobyte

It's absolutely worth the trouble, that meter costs a few hundred bucks.

Even if you got nothing out of doing it, it's still worth putting in a claim in order to cost the company making crappy batteries something.

[thm_w]

Why do people still use alkaline batteries in expensive equipment? I've been using Eneloop and a few other brands of LSD NiMH for more than a decade and I have yet to experience a leak.

People think its not convenient to use rechargeables. That or the higher up front cost turns them off.

Then there is the whole other idea that most here seem to agree on, where a rechargeable multimeter is somehow blasphemy because you might go to use the meter and the battery is dead then you'll be stuck! oh no...

[ataradov]

Initially my personal switch to rechargeable batteries was slow due to their high self discharge rate. But this is not a problem anymore, they last a long time.

[Fungus]

Initially my personal switch to rechargeable batteries was slow due to their high self discharge rate. But this is not a problem anymore, they last a long time.

Another problem is 9V rechargeables, their capacity is very small.

I put one of these in my Brymen, the capacity is only 175mAh.

[Black Phoenix]

When is 9V batteries I prefer to use Lithium. Just install and forget. But for AAs and AAAs I always go Rechargeable, specially Eneloops.

I also have another pack ready in case they go flat, but since they keep their charge for a lot of time it's a non issue to have them ready for change.

Although I would prefer if Panasonic had 9V Eneloops available for sale, but probably the market study doesn't warrant such investment.

[james_s]

People think its not convenient to use rechargeables. That or the higher up front cost turns them off.

Then there is the whole other idea that most here seem to agree on, where a rechargeable multimeter is somehow blasphemy because you might go to use the meter and the battery is dead then you'll be stuck! oh no...

If the rechargeable battery is dead I swap it for a different one, or in a pinch I can pop a regular alkaline or carbon zinc battery in there. Total non-issue.

[james_s]

Another problem is 9V rechargeables, their capacity is very small.

I put one of these in my Brymen, the capacity is only 175mAh.

So what? I get about 6 months out of one in my meter. When the low battery indication comes on I swap it out for another. LSD "9V" rechargeable batteries have been around for at least a decade now, they're not even very expensive. I think the ones I use are 200mAh.

[Fungus]

So what? I get about 6 months out of one in my meter. When the low battery indication comes on I swap it out for another. LSD "9V" rechargeable batteries have been around for at least a decade now, they're not even very expensive. I think the ones I use are 200mAh.

I'm waiting to see how long mine goes for. They don't take long to charge, it's more the hassle of getting inside the meter.

[golden_labels]

I wonder what makes 9V rechargeables having such a low capacity. For example Energizer’s alkaline 9V offer ~60h operation at CC 10mA discharge, 3–5h at 100mA. That’s equivalent of 300–600 mAh. The best rechargeables I can find are 250 mAh only. Considering that alkaline 9V is just a stack of six 1.5V cells, that can’t be an issue with better packing capability. Unless rechargeable 9V manufacturers are literally packing six LR61 inside.

[rteodor]

I used a lot of AA and AAA, sometimes more than 50 per year.
Most of them leak after some time that is usually proportional with the price.
The most disappointing brand was Duracell. It leaked in a clock, several lamps and a remote.

Currently I am settled on Varta. Never had one of those leak. (And I sincerely hope that the new fashionist packaging designs are not a bad sign.)

That is why when 121GW arrived I just set the Duracell aside and put Varta in.

[mcinque]

Currently I am settled on Varta. Never had one of those leak. (And I sincerely hope that the new fashionist packaging designs are not a bad sign.)

Varta leaks too. EVERY alkaline leak instead of brand, it's just a matter of time and luck.
Stop believing a specific brand is safe, 1 every 3 or 4 alkaline will leak for sure.
"never had a leak with XXX" it's like "I never used helmet on the motorbike and I'm never had troubles."

[thm_w]

I wonder what makes 9V rechargeables having such a low capacity. For example Energizer’s alkaline 9V offer ~60h operation at CC 10mA discharge, 3–5h at 100mA. That’s equivalent of 300–600 mAh. The best rechargeables I can find are 250 mAh only. Considering that alkaline 9V is just a stack of six 1.5V cells, that can’t be an issue with better packing capability. Unless rechargeable 9V manufacturers are literally packing six LR61 inside.

9V is either a stack of flat cells or 6x AAAA (LR61) as you say.
It looks like 400-450mAh AAAA's are available. So why they don't use them, no idea.

Some tests here: https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries9V/Common9VIndividualTest%20UK.html
related discussion: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/looking-for-6f22-(9v)-3s-(not-2s)-lifepo4-batteries-(need-9-6v-nominal)/
The rechargeable lithium 9V are very good, just a bit of a hassle to charge unless you get ones with built in USB.

[james_s]

Varta leaks too. EVERY alkaline leak instead of brand, it's just a matter of time and luck.
Stop believing a specific brand is safe, 1 every 3 or 4 alkaline will leak for sure.
"never had a leak with XXX" it's like "I never used helmet on the motorbike and I'm never had troubles."

While I'm sure it's true that it is largely time and luck, I've had too many Duracell batteries leak while others such as Panasonic have never leaked on me for it to be a coincidence, Just the other night I found some badly leaking Duracell AAA batteries in a TV remote at a friend's place, they said best by 2025 on them. On multiple occasions I've seen Duracell leaking still in the retail package. Same with Kirkland brand which I've heard may be made by Duracell. Other brands may not be perfect but Duracell is crap.

[Fungus]

Unless rechargeable 9V manufacturers are literally packing six LR61 inside.

Yes, they are. There's a lot of wasted space.



(Image from https://lygte-info.dk/info/BatteryDisassembly9VAlkaline%20UK.html )

The rechargeable lithium 9V are very good, just a bit of a hassle to charge unless you get ones with built in USB.

Do you trust your multimeter to a cheap Chinese LiPo?