EEVblog 1499 - EcoFlow Delta Pro 3.6kWh Portable Battery TEARDOWN!

[EEVblog]

Teardown of the EcoFlow Delta Pro 3.6kWh portable/home LiFePO4 battery solar inverter/generator.
Back in the old EEVblog garage!

US: https://us.ecoflow.com/products/delta-pro-portable-power-station
Australia: https://au.ecoflow.com/products/delta-pro-portable-power-station

[Omar Mekkawy]

Hi Dave,
Nice video as usual. I think that you forgot to upload the high resolution photos. Could you please upload them ?

I am trying to make a similar device using recycled laptop BMS:
https://github.com/omarKmekkawy/TIVAC_TM4C123G_SMBUS_BMS_INTERFACING

Thank you

[mairo]

Interesting choice in using XT60 connectors on the mains side. Wonder if they have the proper certifications for such use even on the inside of the unit. I have seen DC specs for it, not AC related?

It will be interesting to see a copy of all compliance tests for this unit -  conducted and radiated for all possible configurations such as AC/DC, DC/DC, AC/AC, relevant USB compliance, although  I am sure some local AU companies have already put it through theirs internal RF chambers to check if OK otherwise would not be for sale locally

A good follow up video would be how you can make a better (electric speck wise) and cheaper system form individual off the shelf components even if the outside look may not be as sleek and portable.

[EEVblog]

Hi Dave,
Nice video as usual. I think that you forgot to upload the high resolution photos. Could you please upload them ?

Done now, on my Flickr account.

[exup]

Ive been digging around Dave's YT channel to see if he has solar batteries installed. I assume you haven't gone down that path yet? Have you discussed reasons why on this blog.

Ive a 10kW system in Sydney but no battery as price versus payback was not worth it, but are we close to tipping point yet.

[EEVblog]

Ive been digging around Dave's YT channel to see if he has solar batteries installed. I assume you haven't gone down that path yet? Have you discussed reasons why on this blog.
Ive a 10kW system in Sydney but no battery as price versus payback was not worth it, but are we close to tipping point yet.

Price vs payback is not worth it for me. We don't have enough excess capacity. I'd do it for the fun and for videos though.
Very complicated arrangement I have, and some upcoming house renovations throw even more up into the air.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/renewable-energy/solar-upgrade-again/

[Phoenix]

I've done a 10 minute reverse engineering of the inverter board.

[Phoenix]

Another one for the DCDC/MPPT board.

[tszaboo]

Those busbars, that are soldered down on the PCB, marked HS??. Anyone recognizing these, are they off the shelf parts or custom?

[thm_w]

Those busbars, that are soldered down on the PCB, marked HS??. Anyone recognizing these, are they off the shelf parts or custom?

Tons of cheap chinese BMS use these busbars/pads, but its hard to find an actual supplier.
Its not expensive to just get them custom made though, afaik.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2251832649836325.html
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/searching-for-high-current-smd-bus-bar-component/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/smd-bus-bars/

[tszaboo]

Those busbars, that are soldered down on the PCB, marked HS??. Anyone recognizing these, are they off the shelf parts or custom?

Tons of cheap chinese BMS use these busbars/pads, but its hard to find an actual supplier.
Its not expensive to just get them custom made though, afaik.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2251832649836325.html
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/searching-for-high-current-smd-bus-bar-component/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/smd-bus-bars/

I've had custom busbars ordered. I also had PCBs redesigned, because the tolerances of these parts were "how you doing". It's a niche part, that I have interest in due to my previous job. The hard part is getting them in tape and reel, so you can just give it to the assembler, and they don't charge you extra for manual steps.
So I spent a bit of time with google-fu, and came up with this:
https://bangteng.en.made-in-china.com/product-group/EqoTKPryYzht/nickel-tab-in-reel-SMD-Nickel-Tab-catalog-1.html
From this company, they seem to be nickel, or nickel plated steel. This would put it at 1/3 to 1/5 the conductivity of a copper busbar. On the other hand it's like 1-2 cent a piece. For a large board, it makes a lot of sense, since the alternative is stepping up the number of layers or the layer thickness, that would probably cost more than buying 50 of these.

[EEVblog]

The EcoFlow AC output just mysteriously switched off when powering my 3 fridges 
And I suspect that the AC output actually briefly hiccups when the AC input comes on and off to charge. Will bring a scope home tomorrow to check.

Anyway, it's giving me the heebie jeebies. Might not go ahead with my transfer switch installation, might wait for the hybrid inverter and fixed battery solution.

[mikeselectricstuff]

The EcoFlow AC output just mysteriously switched off when powering my 3 fridges 
And I suspect that the AC output actually briefly hiccups when the AC input comes on and off to charge. Will bring a scope home tomorrow to check.

Anyway, it's giving me the heebie jeebies. Might not go ahead with my transfer switch installation, might wait for the hybrid inverter and fixed battery solution.

Maybe it can't handle the startup surge, especially if more than one of them decides to start at the same time

[tszaboo]

The EcoFlow AC output just mysteriously switched off when powering my 3 fridges 
And I suspect that the AC output actually briefly hiccups when the AC input comes on and off to charge. Will bring a scope home tomorrow to check.

Anyway, it's giving me the heebie jeebies. Might not go ahead with my transfer switch installation, might wait for the hybrid inverter and fixed battery solution.

Maybe it can't handle the startup surge, especially if more than one of them decides to start at the same time

I had fridges, that gave such a large kick to the network, when it's compressor switched off, that a coffee maker was making popping noises. They can be really really EMC noise sources.
The other issue  I can imagine is with the imaginary currents of the motors.

[thexeno]

Hi,

anyone has info on the batteries? I am working on LFPs, and I saw a Chinese brand with prismatic LFP cells of similar size, actually these ones https://batteryfinds.com/product/eve-90ah-lifepo4-battery-cells/

Would be fun if they use these ones, as I had a few in my lab now for some experiments. And the quality is quite... debatable.

[thm_w]

Hi,

anyone has info on the batteries? I am working on LFPs, and I saw a Chinese brand with prismatic LFP cells of similar size, actually these ones https://batteryfinds.com/product/eve-90ah-lifepo4-battery-cells/

Would be fun if they use these ones, as I had a few in my lab now for some experiments. And the quality is quite... debatable.

You can watch Will Prowse, he seems to review many of these. https://www.youtube.com/c/WillProwse
What quality issues specifically?

[EEVblog]

The EcoFlow AC output just mysteriously switched off when powering my 3 fridges 
And I suspect that the AC output actually briefly hiccups when the AC input comes on and off to charge. Will bring a scope home tomorrow to check.

Anyway, it's giving me the heebie jeebies. Might not go ahead with my transfer switch installation, might wait for the hybrid inverter and fixed battery solution.

Maybe it can't handle the startup surge, especially if more than one of them decides to start at the same time

Yeah, maybe, but it's got 3600W pulse capability. In any case, not reassuring for long term use.

[mikeselectricstuff]

The EcoFlow AC output just mysteriously switched off when powering my 3 fridges 
And I suspect that the AC output actually briefly hiccups when the AC input comes on and off to charge. Will bring a scope home tomorrow to check.

Anyway, it's giving me the heebie jeebies. Might not go ahead with my transfer switch installation, might wait for the hybrid inverter and fixed battery solution.

Maybe it can't handle the startup surge, especially if more than one of them decides to start at the same time

Yeah, maybe, but it's got 3600W pulse capability. In any case, not reassuring for long term use.

Dp they define the pulse characteristic? A compressor starting up against refrigerant back pressure would probably draw power for rather longer than, say, SMPSU inrush

[negative_feedback]

Interesting, no EcoFlow comission link in video description... I like that.

I have some questions:
1) Can someone confirm X-Boost* cheating by using lower voltage
2) Which is better, LFP or NMC in terms of AC Wh capacity?
3) They just released Delta 2 with LFP, what about River 2?

*can be disabled

[EEVblog]

Dp they define the pulse characteristic? A compressor starting up against refrigerant back pressure would probably draw power for rather longer than, say, SMPSU inrush

AFAIK there is no pulse or duration to spec to that.

[thexeno]

What quality issues specifically?

"Air" in their electrolyte. Eloquent is the bubbling sound when rotating the cells. And consequent risk of partially drying out over time.

[electr_peter]

2) Which is better, LFP or NMC in terms of AC Wh capacity?

Currently NMC are cheaper for the same capacity, but difference is not much. I would go with LFP for longer usable life and less potential fire risk.

3) They just released Delta 2 with LFP, what about River 2?

EcoFlow released many new products, they could have plans for smaller models as well. Other manufacturers have LFP variants in smaller size already.

[electr_peter]

I think measurement of the fridge startup power is in order, as it could be much higher than expected. Dave may have equipment to measure inrush current (power analyzer like R&S® HMC8015). IMO problem arises from different interpretation of power (i.e. domestic average power (with massive peak loads from mains) for fridge vs strictly defined portable inverter power output). Mains power is much more forgiving than inverter.

As OP suggested, fridges do not like power interruption and immediate startup. This can be mitigated with some relay delay logic (standard components for electric panel) by setting A) different time delays for all 3 fridges (so that startup load does not overlap) and B) long enough delays to reduce resistance from fridge internals. Losing power for few minutes in fridge is not a problem.
These mitigations could be enough for portable battery solution. If that does not help, soft-start circuit can be added for each fridge. Depends on load characteristics and inverter capabilities.

[Billy Tree]

 EEVblog Just like to clear up a couple things. The AC does not hiccup like that in a healthy unit. Usually such issues on the Facebook Ecoflow Delta user page prove to be user error.
The App has a number of timeout settings, and it is most likely your Delta Pro AC simply timed out. Also when it is plugged into the wall, the DP is passing through the AC input, the AC output simply reflects the AC input, it is not and cannot run off the battery plugged into the wall. This is for two reasons, one is a routing relay is flipped, and the other is the DC to AC inverter board is reversed to become an AC to DC fast charger. This is the secret sauce behind all the Ecoflow product's X-Charge extremely fast charging. It will even charge at 240V AC on the AC input even in the US models, however it will protectively mute the 120V output. Also plugged in the wall it is limited to a 20A AC passthrough, if you demand more it triggers an overcurrent warning. If your fridges sum to more than 20A, this may have been your issue.
The 3600 watts the Delta Pro is rated at are not surge/peak watts, it has 7200 "peak" watts. The 3600 watts are 120V x 30A running watts. And it will multi charge at up to 6500 Watts.
It's a beast. If your 3 fridges are typical theyare a trivial load for the Delta Pro really.
As for someone's certification questioning re: the XT60 DC input, the Delta Pro has UL, CE, FCC, RoHS, TELEC certifications.
HTH.
- Billy

[EEVblog]

EEVblog Just like to clear up a couple things. The AC does not hiccup like that in a healthy unit.

It does, there is even a warning about it in the manual.