EEVblog 1508 - We FINALLY Got Alkaline Battery LEAKAGE!

[EEVblog]

After the 3+ year experiment that started in March 2019 we FINALLY have some alkaline battery leakage failures! Did the Duracell's fail?

That pesky potassium hydroxide forming potassium carbonate.

Battery leakage video playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL24OiKqd2iN9n2Xk_7Y0gN5t44vtBud_C

[Ed.Kloonk]

8:25 Best before 12-2026. 

[Per Hansson]

I did laugh out loud to this comment 

[Fungus]

This one is for all those people who say Varta never leaks. 

[Kleinstein]

The dry cells also leak.  There is a difference in where they leak: it is usually somewhere on the outer shell, as the outer shell is the zink and used up when empty. So they kind of leak by design - just the plastic wrap and paper with the modern ones keeps the liquid in. The liquid is usually thickend to some degree, so that the leakage is ideally limited. It is still enough to cause damage. With the dry cell the mechanical stress in the holder can make a difference. With some empty one the outer shell can litterally fall appart.

For a study on leakage it may be more feasible to get in contract with a place collecting old batteries and ask to sort through them and do the statistics on those old batteries.
It may still be a bit biased, as badly leaking ones may end up in the normal waste more likely than just empty. The good before date gives a hint on how old the batteries are.

[azi]

I have some suggestions for future tests, based on my own experience.

1. Years ago I was shopping on eBay for a model of electronic photo flash. It was difficult to find one that did not have corroded battery terminals from leaking batteries. The flash took 4 AA cells. So I suggest discharging the batteries with many 10-20 second high-current drains from the batteries, nearly short circuiting them.

2. A problem I observed more recently was that the high-power UV flashlight I gave my girlfriend for seeing scorpions had leaky batteries after she got bored looking at glowing scorpions and left it in a drawer with the batteries still in it. The flashlight takes 6 AA cells. I do not know how much current it draws when lit, but it is extremely bright for its size, and the batteries wear out pretty quickly. In this case, it was powered on for a few seconds to a few minutes at a time when in use.

3. My girlfriend, again! (I have been explaining not to leave batteries in things, but the idea is still new to her.) She loves to put battery-powered "candles" in the windows for Christmas. She loves Christmas lights so much that she leaves them running for months, until both C cells in each are completely depleted. In this case, the current draw is less, but it is depleting the batteries continuously all night in the long winter nights. The lights sense ambient light and turn themselves on at night. The C cells in about 5 or 6 of those light are toast by the time she puts the lights in the garage until the next year. This is in the Arizona high desert climate where the garage gets to just above freezing in the winter and around 35°C in the summer, along with a large difference between day and night temperatures year round. When I helped her set up the lights last year, most of them had leaking (Energizer) batteries.

The first two involved high current draw that may have warmed the batteries. The third happened to batteries that were depleted more gradually, but then stored in a place that got hot on a daily basis for months.

How about depleting the batteries with a duty cycle, then you can store them outdoors in Sydney for an entire summer? 

[free_electron]

isn't it time a class action lawsuit was filed against this endless misery ? how much longer will this be tolerated ?
This year alone i lost a fluke multimeter, my laser distance meter, two flashlights, and a soap dispenser. Duracell, rayovac and energizers.

For critical stuff i started using Energizer lithium. Those don't leak as the chemistry is different. but they are very expensive
I'm looking into those usb rechargeable lithium cells now.

-edit-
i found out someone did that. Duracell Duralock 10 year guarantee. Case dismissed ... why ? judge states: it's made by humans, you can't expect it to be perfect.
So basically guarantee means NOTHING.

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/duracell-class-action-lawsuit-over-leaky-batteries-dismissed/

Any politician willing to put forward a law that says battery manufacturers will be responsible for the repair/replacement cost of the device damaged by their leaky battery will get my vote. Even if it is Trump.

[golden_labels]

What surprised me is that it shows leakage is more likely than I expected.⁽¹⁾ Way more! So far I believed it’s a negligible phenomenon. But the experiment moves that estimate to where experiencing alkaline batteries leaks is a normal and expected thing. I stand corrected, thank you!

One question remains unanswered: if that’s something that is likely during normal use or will only occur after 2–3 years in storage. You said you didn’t check them for quite some time, so the time span is huge.

⁽¹⁾ If the experiment is representative and it’s not a fluke.

[JustMeHere]

I used to work at a beach resort with electronic locks.  We had a lot of problems with batteries leaking.  The company supplying the locks actually switched to Duracell to cut down on the leaks.  (150 or so locks)

We still had some still leak.  Even some new cells I just kept in my car.  The common thing in my case was 100F± heat.  With the locks in direct sunlight,  who knows how hot they would get.  The ones that leaked in my car would have also gotten very hot at times.

[Fungus]

I have some suggestions for future tests, based on my own experience.

1. Years ago I was shopping on eBay for a model of electronic photo flash. It was difficult to find one that did not have corroded battery terminals from leaking batteries. The flash took 4 AA cells. So I suggest discharging the batteries with many 10-20 second high-current drains from the batteries, nearly short circuiting them.

That doesn't explain all the remote controls with leaked batteries in them, or the battery in my Aneng AN8008, or the leaked batteries in unopened packets, or...

I used to work at a beach resort with electronic locks.  We had a lot of problems with batteries leaking.  The company supplying the locks actually switched to Duracell to cut down on the leaks.  (150 or so locks)

We still had some still leak.  Even some new cells I just kept in my car. 

Statistics: If you use a lot of batteries you'll get a lot of leaks. 

[KE5FX]

isn't it time a class action lawsuit was filed against this endless misery ? how much longer will this be tolerated ?
This year alone i lost a fluke multimeter, my laser distance meter, two flashlights, and a soap dispenser. Duracell, rayovac and energizers.

Once is happenstance
Twice is coincidence
The third time is enemy action
By the 12th time, maybe it's you

[Fungus]

One question remains unanswered: if that’s something that is likely during normal use or will only occur after 2–3 years in storage. You said you didn’t check them for quite some time, so the time span is huge.

It's a slow process.

If your "normal use" means changing the batteries every few weeks then any leakage during that time will be so small that you won't see it without careful inspection.

My theory is that all alkaline batteries start leaking the second they come off the conveyor belt. Some just take much longer than others to make a mess.

[Fungus]

isn't it time a class action lawsuit was filed against this endless misery ? how much longer will this be tolerated ?

Until you admit the real problem and switch to NiMH?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel–metal_hydride_battery

[azi]

I concur with that! I switched to "pre-charged" NiMH AA and AAA cells (mostly Eneloop) years ago and have not bought an alkaline since. I am very happy with them.

[TimFox]

isn't it time a class action lawsuit was filed against this endless misery ? how much longer will this be tolerated ?
This year alone i lost a fluke multimeter, my laser distance meter, two flashlights, and a soap dispenser. Duracell, rayovac and energizers.

For critical stuff i started using Energizer lithium. Those don't leak as the chemistry is different. but they are very expensive
I'm looking into those usb rechargeable lithium cells now.

-edit-
i found out someone did that. Duracell Duralock 10 year guarantee. Case dismissed ... why ? judge states: it's made by humans, you can't expect it to be perfect.
So basically guarantee means NOTHING.

https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/lawsuit-news/duracell-class-action-lawsuit-over-leaky-batteries-dismissed/

Any politician willing to put forward a law that says battery manufacturers will be responsible for the repair/replacement cost of the device damaged by their leaky battery will get my vote. Even if it is Trump.

According to the topclassactions.com page cited, the judge ruled that the "10-year guarantee" was, legally, an "express warranty", not a guarantee.  A warranty is a pledge to repair, replace, or refund.  A guarantee is a pledge that nothing can possibly go wrong.

[JustMeHere]

Statistics: If you use a lot of batteries you'll get a lot of leaks. 

None of the batteries kept in cool storage leaked.

[free_electron]

isn't it time a class action lawsuit was filed against this endless misery ? how much longer will this be tolerated ?

Until you admit the real problem and switch to NiMH?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel–metal_hydride_battery

not a solution. 1.2 volt just doesn't cut it. I have a tv remote that will not work with nimh. and I don't really want to muck with rechargeable all the time.

I'm now trying out the lion based usb chargeable AAA cells. they produce 1.5 volt due to some internal circuitry. We'll see how that goes.


I am 52 years old. my first toy train at age 3 was destroyed by .. leaky batteries. We've had more than 50 years of this bullshit. Why can the (alkaline) battery industry not make a battery that does not leak ? Are they that incompetent ? or is there something else going on ?

[EEVblog]

I think I'm going to have to get a proper temperatue and humidity chamber...

This would do nicely!
https://www.sonacme.com/products/11.html
(don't ask the price)

[EEVblog]

Damn, this looks nice, and kinda affordable:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003800389860.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004621975248.html

A Nuve ES120 temperature chamber I was eyeing off was a very ouchy $4500

Crowd fund the test?

EDIT: Looks like the 0degC one is $7400

[TheNewLab]

more like a kickstarter or "Go fund me" heck let's have Dave startup a whole new company! Say $200K?

SO many things here. NiMH at 1.5v, however for AA and AAA they have full 1.5v NiMH, expensive though.
Class Action suit. Does the advertising on the packaging itself say "Guaranteed for 10 years" ? or up "up to 10 years guaranteed"? is there one of those tiny * or cross or whatever that you have to search all over the back for the limitations? Plus, anyway, so they leak and they give you a free replacement -uh, the device is damaged! or will repair.. How do you repair a battery? even computer tablets or other low-cost devices, they just swap you a new one, and send the "defective" one back to the factory, where they collect 100's of them and sell them to some ebay seller for pennies per unit! 

Ah yes, the guarantee!. how about the "lifetime guarantee" when it does go bad and you find the company, a reputable large American company, already went out of business? OOPS!

For me, what about the time you put fresh alks. in use it, put it away thinking your going to use it next week or so...stuff comes up or change and you forget to pull then and Yay, LEAKAGE!

For me Re-chargeables where they work, those AA 1.5v lith for what is long-term, Lith-ion for all those odd voltages and sizes, and alks....only if I have to. I dread inserting new alkaline batteries.
One thing. I just cannot buy Energizer batteries and even remove them in devices that are sold with them. It comes from one experience. I bought a set of 4 in that plastic packaging. I went to open the package to use then after the purchase:
all 4 had leaked and the use-by date, was, long into the future. basically, I estimate manufactured one month ago.   This soured me on Energizer brand, and now always Duracell. point here is. people swear by varying brands and types, yet, one experience like that and they lose a customer FOREVER and tells everyone else their experience.

hmm, maybe I should have called them for a replacement.  OOPS!

temp and humidity chamber sounds great!

Dave: maybe a bulk purchase for all of us, with a great discount?  say 100,000 chambers for, what? $99??  how about that kickstarter? and we ALL get one as a gift? kinda like what Oprah used to do? 
LOL


OOPS! just re-checked your temp/humidity chamber price.. so $500K kickstarter!, Oh WTF, let's just go for a million $$ kickstarter!

[TheNewLab]

Seriously, follow up:

how about adding a  Silica Gel Desiccant Canister?
https://www.amazon.com/Indicating-Desiccant-Canister-Dehumidifier-Reusable/dp/B09374N7WL/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3O43528I4G2WV&keywords=de-humidity+metal+pack&qid=1665980480&sprefix=de-humidity+metal+pack%2Caps%2C153&sr=8-2

into those bins? and caulk seal them? and wait 10 years?
Maybe by a mini fridge to keep at 68f (20c) degrees or 60f degrees, (not too cold, not too hot)?

OK, more like just an idea. I have a mini frig used separately for photo film and paper, (yes, I still print using a darkroom) while food frig remains below 40f degrees, I seal or double seal the photo stuff at about 62f degrees and freeze the long-term film.
 
of course, I already had the mini-fridge from college and the  Silica Gel Desiccant Canisters I bought in quantity when I was living near the beach.

[EEVblog]

Seriously, follow up:

how about adding a  Silica Gel Desiccant Canister?
https://www.amazon.com/Indicating-Desiccant-Canister-Dehumidifier-Reusable/dp/B09374N7WL/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3O43528I4G2WV&keywords=de-humidity+metal+pack&qid=1665980480&sprefix=de-humidity+metal+pack%2Caps%2C153&sr=8-2

into those bins? and caulk seal them? and wait 10 years?
Maybe by a mini fridge to keep at 68f (20c) degrees or 60f degrees, (not too cold, not too hot)?

OK, more like just an idea. I have a mini frig used separately for photo film and paper, (yes, I still print using a darkroom) while food frig remains below 40f degrees, I seal or double seal the photo stuff at about 62f degrees and freeze the long-term film.

I already have a small manual thermal chamber. The key is to temprature cycle and humidity cycle. Preferably you'd have seperate temperature and humidity chambers so you can do two different types of tests at once.
Not expensive to get a decent temperature chamber, but one that adds programmable humidy adds to the cost a lot.

[EEVblog]

Or the $3800 cheap 25C+ model plus a cheaper thermal test chamber might be cheaper and better combo?
One chamber to be temp only cycling from 0C, and another to do humidity and higher temps over ambient?

[EEVblog]

Another one:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Liyi-Environmental-Climatic-High-And-Low_1600429943491.html

[TheNewLab]

Thought experiment continues:

Another one:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Liyi-Environmental-Climatic-High-And-Low_1600429943491.html

hmm, $2,580.00 now we're getting more affordable. Still with one chamber or a couple that figured multiplies up. How about checking manufacturer specs on their batteries, and choose just a few temp/humidity settings? Time, well ten years is absurd for any of us to do. There is the idea of accelerated tests. Film companies can do that, and they do and include it in their specs and packaging. but how test 2 years in six months or longer?

killer here is: time, your time, cost, and space. for me it would become an obsession