Personally, I avoid PIC's like the plague, due to toolchain support.
Having to deal with the propriatery compiler is a pain (especially in CI), needing licenses etc for it is just troublesome. The world has (is busy) moving on from proprietary compilers.
I think even dave even mentioned at some point, 'why are these hardware manufacturers trying to do tooling, it costs a lot of money, and it's not likely its a money maker' (or something along those lines, but dave can quote himself better
And yes, sure 'it just works' (for the most time) but as an open source aficionado, and the quite decent quality of toolchains, lets move on.
See my recent video with Steve Sanghi for the reasons.
I heard it
So I totally understand (from a business point of view) that you treat it as a product, so it can make some money, so you don't shut it down. This is a solid reason when talking about proprietary stuff. I'd even argue, 'proprietary vs gratis' this makes a lot of sense, as someone's gotta pay for the work.
Sadly, you used the words 'free' instead of opensource, though I doubt he'd understand what that is about :p
The whole story about decisions selling their toolchain team is of course silly. It's part of your product, one can't do without the other. But contributing support for your chips to an open source toolchain, in the end, can only be a net positive. It's just 'old-skool thinking' (that aligns perfectly with the thinking of selling your toolchain devision).
But such is it often with hardware vendors, software is just a small part of the equation right? Tooling, testing etc; just write a bit of software.
I think even the automotive world is slowly leaning towards more open source (android automotive, BMW doing more open source). In the long term, opensource will become even more prominent, and dinosours will eventually wane
Also, as the next generations of engineers come to be in these new companies, that grow up with opensource toolchains, CI etc etc they use in their 'hobby' projects or small companies, they'll will demand to use this in their big jobs as well (when there's opportunities, things as always still move slowly sadly).
I've had to use the optimized compiler, in a small company. Just because the software grew, and it was the only way to make it fit. For us, this was a huge cost issue. But more annoyingly, integrating it into the CI was also very painful.
But look at atmel/avr. The company was probably not run great, but their compiler just kept on going
no need to grab some ancient compiler. But granted, them asking money for it, means they can hire people to work on their compiler and keep improving on it. Oth, if they main focus is to add support for their hardware to gcc for example, that's work that needs to be done anyway. And in the 'fat years' you can contribute to generic/optimization features of gcc. In the thin years, you do the bear minimum to support your chips. And time-lines is a non-excuse. You have to do the work regardless. But again, ranting now, and only heard a dinosaur :p
Anyway, for me personally, and business, I will avoid anything without an FOSS toolchain like a plague.
And of course, hardware guys (trying) to do software, are fine with whatever clicky interface they can get and do their one-off. Software guys tend to have to work on the same stuff for decades sometimes :p
BUT, it was a really good interview, well done Dave.