EEVblog 1575 - TIPA: The World's Most Efficient Solar Panel - BUSTED

[EEVblog]

TIPA: The World's Most Efficient Solar Panel raised £293,000 on Indiegogo and Kickstarter, AND also got a UK government innovation grant for  £560,000!
They claim 3 times the power output of regular solar panels by using mirrors to reflect the light back on the solar cells (TIPA: Total Internal Photonic Absorption). They claim 80% of the light that hits a solar panel is reflected!

And when challeged by a solar cell researcher from the University of Freiburg on the claims of 80% reflectance and why they don't independently test, there is a hirarious word salad response!
https://borchertlab.com/juliane/



https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/tipa-the-world-s-most-efficient-solar-panel#/
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tipa/tipa-total-internal-photonic-absorption/description
https://gtr.ukri.org/projects?ref=105277
https://yellowstud.io/research
https://alt-things.com/about-us-3/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shockley%E2%80%93Queisser_limit
https://www.nrel.gov/pv/reflectance-spectroscopy.html
https://www.youtube.com/@UClilz8CXhUFBRrdAUenRKWw

[AndyBeez]

Dave, it is facinating the green projects my government is spending my taxes on.  Facinating...

Source, [public domain] UK Companies House.

YELLOW STUDIO LIMITED (11517683)
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11517683

TIPA TECH LIMITED (13912775)
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/13912775

Director Nikunj Vyas, current and other business directorships including Yellow Studio Limited and Tipa Tech Limited - Appointments 17
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/koV1FIQV3bcKEHlZu4H5_6vAEDE/appointments

According to the accounts for Yellow Studio Ltd, the business has a financial relationship with Do No Evil Ltd, Carbonyte Ltd and Carbonyte Ltd (Malta*).
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11517683/filing-history/MzM3NjcwMTgyOGFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0


 * [public domain] Maltese company info: (C101483) Carbonyte Ltd

[nctnico]

Yeah, this product makes no sense at all. You could argue that bringing light onto a solar panel at the perfect angle through lenses and mirrors increases efficiency like a tracking (moving) panel would. But A) a tracking panel only gets you up to 60% more and B) this TIPA unit seems to need more surface area compared to a regular panel. So where is the benefit? You can't get more energy per surface area from the sun. Another problem I see is that with the panels bundled together like in the TIPA units, cooling will become a huge problem.

More like a non-starter than a kick-starter.

[EEVblog]

Director Nikunj Vyas, current and other business directorships including Yellow Studio Limited and Tipa Tech Limited - Appointments 17
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/koV1FIQV3bcKEHlZu4H5_6vAEDE/appointments

 

[AndyBeez]

To be honest, there are so many companies with so many identical directors, I would need a large ball of wool and a lot of pins to figure out who was where, why and when? I suggest these are mostly holding ventures created to manage each of their 'breakthrough innovations'. Some are capitalised at a mere £100. I bet the personnel do not even know which companies they are a director of? Even though one concern is called I Am Genius Ltd

FYI "on reflection" I removed the link to the non UK company as it listed personal/private information. Which is obviously legal to do in EUroland.

[Haenk]

Even though one concern is called I Am Genius Ltd

You can't deny "extracting" hundreds of thousands of pounds from public funds and uninformed small backers *and* getting away with it requires some sort of genius behind it

[AndyBeez]

With regard to the UK Research and Innovation grant of £498,608 to Yellow Studio Ltd, it would appear that either part of this amount or an additional £165,085 was awarded to a participant company called Symbio Energy Ltd. Symbio Energy Ltd was a UK budget energy provider that failed in 2022 - along with dozens of other energy providers. Significantly, Symbio Energy had very much the same named directors that are attributed with Yellow Studio and TIPA Tech. Incidentally, Yellow Studio Ltd is listed as a creditor in Symbio's administration documents.

The partner awards are as follows. In the public domain, there is no indication as to what activities these partners were involved with. Although one might speculate that Anglia Ruskin had some R&D consultancy role?

SYMBIO ENERGY LIMITED £ 165,085
ANGLIA RUSKIN UNIVERSITY £98,355
SKEIN NIGERIA LTD £56,669

[rch]

The story of "budget" energy companies in the UK is a beautiful example of crony capitalism, or political corruption to put it more plainly.  We had half a dozen large energy companies and one day the government decided they wouldn't be allowed to make special offers of lower tariffs because it was "too confusing" for the poor consumers. Instead, any group of con-men who had contacts in the right place in government were allowed to set up companies which acted as agents for selling gas and electricity, with minimal investment to undercut the big companies.  Sounds crazy? well not if you could make fortune for setting up one of these companies and take out profits until it went broke. 

Presumably the same corrupt politicians are behind the "innovation grants" to people who surprisingly turn out to be the same con men with good contacts.

[.RC.]

You would think the five point plan for these dodgy fraudulent companies would have step one as.

1: Attempt to bribe dave@eevblog to get him to look the other way.   

[AndyBeez]

I don't think Dave is the kind of guy to look the other way. He is Australian after all _RIPPER

It's just a sad state of affairs that when there is a pot of free money for good intentions, the always same self entitled people show up with large ladles to empty it. Venture capitalists and funding organisations beware of innovative technology. You get rich or you get *****d again. Pick one.

With regard to the failed budget energy company Symbio, a progress statement from the joint administrator made for interesting reading. If that's what you're into.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/07999360/filing-history/MzM3OTM1MzM5M2FkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0
I noted that one of Symbio's investments was spending £25K on now worthless crypto currency

It might seem this crowd funded solar panel is sat on top an iceberg of intrigue but, clicking around UK Companies House does reveal a lot of energy sector related companies; whether these companies are active, dormant, ceased or in administration, have assets in the millions of pounds or just pounds, what they have in common is the same directors with the same business addresses. I might need another ball of wool.

[golden_labels]

The never ending supply of scammers is not something I decry. If there are money to be taken, it would be a disgrace to human species if there were no people intelligent enough to spot a method to make these money theirs. Homo Sapiens is well known for being smart, right?

That authorities and politicians are so easily deceived is not something surprising. They are just a reflection of the general population after all. Being in position of power is not giving you any magical abilities or pour all the wisdom in your head. Sometimes opposite happens.

What is sad, is that you can go out, throw a warning about a scam in their face, and not only this does nothing, but you’re being seen as a wacko. And the society is fine with that.

Dave can’t look the other way. In Australia everything tries to kill you, so you must always look in all directions.

[Simon]

Governments are supposed to employ experts. I mean lets face it, even if the paid Dave £10'000 for his expert advice lasting 30 minutes, it would have saved our public services a loss of £550'000. The 2 minute 44 second video gives the average person enough information to establish in under 10 minutes that this is claiming the impossible.

[golden_labels]

And how much does it cost to hire experts, who will decide who is the expert in a given field? And then turtles all the way down? Authorities are reaching out to experts. But that only creates new problems. They are not impartial, not free of error and biases, and never can have wide enough view of the topic. Yet their opinion produces an aura of “more valid” sciencey, solid knowledge.

Dave is not an expert on solar panels. He’s an educated commentator. I may agree with Dave on TIPA and a few other bullshit “technologies”, but that’s merely an alignment of opinions.

[EEVblog]

And how much does it cost to hire experts, who will decide who is the expert in a given field? And then turtles all the way down? Authorities are reaching out to experts. But that only creates new problems. They are not impartial, not free of error and biases, and never can have wide enough view of the topic. Yet their opinion produces an aura of “more valid” sciencey, solid knowledge.

A good lot of mainstream "science" is rife with vested interests. When humans are involved it's inevitable. It doesn't have to be an outright scam, fraud, paid shill etc, it could be as simple as knowing where your next research grant is going to come from, or knowing that is you publish against the establishment your career could be over.
And therein lies the balance, but you have to always start by asking "who's funding it?" and work from there.
It's not that hard to fund an independent panel that simply know how to ask questions. Asking questions is often all it takes.

Dave is not an expert on solar panels. He’s an educated commentator. I may agree with Dave on TIPA and a few other bullshit “technologies”, but that’s merely an alignment of opinions.

The beauty is, I don't have to be. Literally anyone with the right mindset can expose or raise doubts on this stuff by asking basic questions.
In the case of TIPA, their entire logic is based on 80% reflection, ok, fine, prove it. They won't be able to of course, they are simply relying on nobody asking the question.

Nuclear Diamond battery would have been as easy as "show us the prototype" (it didn't exist).

[Simon]

And how much does it cost to hire experts, who will decide who is the expert in a given field? And then turtles all the way down? Authorities are reaching out to experts. But that only creates new problems. They are not impartial, not free of error and biases, and never can have wide enough view of the topic. Yet their opinion produces an aura of “more valid” sciencey, solid knowledge.

Dave is not an expert on solar panels. He’s an educated commentator. I may agree with Dave on TIPA and a few other bullshit “technologies”, but that’s merely an alignment of opinions.

I'm not talking about the complex stuff. Like I said an ordinary person can debunk this within 10 minutes, this is high school stuff, these people have supposedly been to university, this means that they should at least be able to read and reason very basic stuff. My alternative is that they can outsource that to someone else if they are that thick. even if it costs £10'000 for someone else to show them the Wikipedia page and all of the other mass of information on how panels work that is available at everyone's fingertips debunking the basic premise of using the near non existent reflections to increase output will have saved £550'000. Our politicians will think that we are at the forefront of science, it looks like we can be outsmarted by high school teenagers. Basically if we are going to waste over half a million quid on some fraudster, we may as well waste a few thousand pounds on a high school student that can use the internet.

[golden_labels]

A good lot of mainstream "science" is rife with vested interests. When humans are involved it's inevitable. It doesn't have to be an outright scam, fraud, paid shill etc, it could be as simple as knowing where your next research grant is going to come from, or knowing that is you publish against the establishment your career could be over.

Not sure, if you support my statement here or opposing it.

And therein lies the balance, but you have to always start by asking "who's funding it?" and work from there. It's not that hard to fund an independent panel that simply know how to ask questions. Asking questions is often all it takes.

The problem with “who is funding it” is it’s only useful and impartial in a limited number of cases. Like research being paid by a company that later uses it, but pretending to be independent. And even this may be hitting innocent parties,⁽¹⁾ not to mention triviality of avoiding detection.

The beauty is, I don't have to be. (…)

Note, that it was a response to a specific statement from Simon. About you being hired to an expert opinion.

⁽¹⁾ If it seems otherwise, because many scams are apparently using research funded by the scammers, it’s worth recalling conditional probability is not “symmetric.” B being often observed in A does not imply A is often observed in B. The probabilistic equivalent of affirming the consequent. Please note, that I make a negative statement there, not a positive one — too easy to miss, too often leads to misinterpretation of my words.

[Simon]

My point was that even if you take extreme measures to protect from scammers like giving someone who is not a research scientist a ridiculous sum for 10-60 minutes work like £10'000 you still make a saving of 55 times that or £550'000, why therefore did no one see this for the scam it is. A high school kid could tell you it's junk for pocket money.

[nctnico]

In the case of TIPA, their entire logic is based on 80% reflection, ok, fine, prove it. They won't be able to of course, they are simply relying on nobody asking the question.

Is asking questions even important? Quackery is as ancient as human history and people keep buying the crap. In way you can see it as supporting the economy.

The same goes for research grants. Maybe the research is not very useful directly, but people are being put to work.

[Simon]

In the case of TIPA, their entire logic is based on 80% reflection, ok, fine, prove it. They won't be able to of course, they are simply relying on nobody asking the question.

Is asking questions even important? Quackery is as ancient as human history and people keep buying the crap. In way you can see it as supporting the economy.

The same goes for research grants. Maybe the research is not very useful directly, but people are being put to work.

not really, very few people are required to do the ahem.... research and development, it's very high pay for a short period, it would economically be more beneficial take the £560'000 out of everyone's tax bill, sure it works out as fractions of a penny per person but at least it's going to people who will spend it in the economy rather than these peoples pension funds.

[AndyBeez]

TIPA Tech Limited would appear at face value to have some association or proximity with the UK Building Research Establishment. The BRE BRE provides, "research, advice, training, testing, certification and standards for both public and private sector organisations in the UK and abroad."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Building_Research_Establishment

I missed this one originally, but one of the two TIPA Tech Limited (13912775) directors, a Shamir Pravinchandra Budhdeo, is listed on the UK companies house website as having either previously or actively possessing, an astounding one hundred and eleven directorial appointments. A 'serial entrepreneur' indeed.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/qNmQX7w3X98AXI8DmWgtrQ13LkA/appointments

Maybe, when it comes to the awarding of other people's money [taxes] I do not think anyone drops the due diligence ball. Rather, there is no one who knows how to pick it up in the first place 

[SiliconWizard]

The beauty is, I don't have to be. Literally anyone with the right mindset can expose or raise doubts on this stuff by asking basic questions.
In the case of TIPA, their entire logic is based on 80% reflection, ok, fine, prove it. They won't be able to of course, they are simply relying on nobody asking the question.

Nuclear Diamond battery would have been as easy as "show us the prototype" (it didn't exist).

Indeed. Unsurprisingly, people that claim otherwise are usually either fully involved in the bullshit or taking advantage of it on a more general level (like perpetually living off grants on dead-end projects and rationalizing that it benefits society).

Before being an "expert" (if the topic at hand really requires one to be), the prerequisites are: a scientific background, common sense and the absence of conflicts of interest.
The first one is not too hard to find, the second one already a bit more, as to the last one, needles in a haystack.

[Simon]

Maybe, when it comes to the awarding of other people's money [taxes] I do not think anyone drops the due diligence ball. Rather, there is no one who knows how to pick it up in the first place 

That is why I originally suggested that in the same vain the chucked £560'000 at these people chucking £10'000 at Dave for 30 minutes work would have meant they never had to pick the ball up but would have a better outcome. Or get one of their kids to look at it and tell them yay or nay.

[nctnico]

In the case of TIPA, their entire logic is based on 80% reflection, ok, fine, prove it. They won't be able to of course, they are simply relying on nobody asking the question.

Is asking questions even important? Quackery is as ancient as human history and people keep buying the crap. In way you can see it as supporting the economy.

The same goes for research grants. Maybe the research is not very useful directly, but people are being put to work.

not really, very few people are required to do the ahem.... research and development, it's very high pay for a short period, it would economically be more beneficial take the £560'000 out of everyone's tax bill, sure it works out as fractions of a penny per person but at least it's going to people who will spend it in the economy rather than these peoples pension funds.

What you are overlooking here is the big picture. IOW: which percentage of grants ends up to be wasted and which percentage does lead to a useful product? Typically you need to have a really good story in order to get these kind of government grants. So likely the percentage of grants awarded to less useful projects is less than 1% .

[Simon]

What you are overlooking here is the big picture. IOW: which percentage of grants ends up to be wasted and which percentage does lead to a useful product? Typically you need to have a really good story in order to get these kind of government grants. So likely the percentage of grants awarded to less useful projects is less than 1% .

And you have actual information to back that up? the bigger issue is the outright fraud, the even bigger issue is either the cronyism or the total incompetence by the awarding body. I mean if it was this simple it would have been done 30 years ago when panels were actually expensive. So even if you area not vaguely technical oar capable of using wikipedia there is even another was of working out that this is going to be fraud.

Given the quantity of crap we see around these days it is reasonable to expect that more that 1% is being awarded to assholes like these people.

[nctnico]

As I do quite a bit of work for various startups I do have some first hand information on the number of hoops a company needs to jump through in order to get a grant. It is not easy.

[Simon]

Well in the UK apparently, very easy

[.RC.]

As I do quite a bit of work for various startups I do have some first hand information on the number of hoops a company needs to jump through in order to get a grant. It is not easy.

All you need is use the right bullshit dictionary and it is pretty easy.

Remember the people who are going to be doing the assessing are firstly going to be aware of what their government wants.  They are also going to be long term bureaucrats, untouchable and living in a bubble world not based in reality.  Things like adverse end results are not thought of.

it is not their nor the government's money.   They know for little projects any wastage via it going tits up is not going to be a voting issue, because the government has endless money. Even a billion dollars these days for a government to piss against the wall is not an issue for even any government with a bit of size.

Speak the right words that will align with what the government thinks will get it to win votes and you are on the gravy train.

What else are you going to do.  Vote for a third party, throw your vote away?

[EEVblog]

As I do quite a bit of work for various startups I do have some first hand information on the number of hoops a company needs to jump through in order to get a grant. It is not easy.

All you need is use the right bullshit dictionary and it is pretty easy.
Remember the people who are going to be doing the assessing are firstly going to be aware of what their government wants.

Anything eco related is going to get an almost automatic tick.
Solar Roadways have been running that grift for about 16 years now, and they still have a new government study contract.
You don't even need to produce anything practical, you can just make a good living just faffing around on grant after grant.

[SiliconWizard]

Before that, that was all with graphene (it got many companies grants for completely bullshit projects), then the blockchain, then anything "energy/climate" related. And of course AI.
Yes, it's dead easy once you know the tricks and have enough network. And yes, most of these projects end with nothing usable at all, and nobody seems to care. It's not engineering, it's politics.

The fact that it would be supposed to help economy is bullshit. You don't create value when you, uh, dont have any positive output. So in the end, it's not helping anything, it's just draining resources. It just benefits to a minority of people living off it, that's not creating value. That's absolutely not sustainable. But it's not a surprise that those who benefit from that money on an individual level would defend the model at all costs.

[.RC.]

Yes, it's dead easy once you know the tricks and have enough network. And yes, most of these projects end with nothing usable at all, and nobody seems to care. It's not engineering, it's politics.

I sometimes wondered how many people could you selectively remove from the system before it starts to affect those remaining.

Or another way of looking at it is how many people really contribute to society or humanity in a positive way and how many are simply leechers. We know there are increasingly less people required to provide the three things we need, food/water, shelter and security, which leaves more and more to do their own thing. Some of which appear to contribute nothing.

I know it is a question so complex it is improbable to answer, because sometimes something very beneficial is created out of something many people think is a waste of time and energy.

[.RC.]

Anything eco related is going to get an almost automatic tick.

Latest news is the Australian federal government is going to force the  Australian taxpayer to go profit guarantee for all these renewable projects, if they do not make enough profit for the owner, the taxpayer coughs up.

This is the same taxpayer that will be paying for the electricity they make, so either win or lose the Australian taxpayer is paying one way or another.

You could not lose with terms like that, it is like handing these mega corporations their own printing press. It is no wonder all around the world these right wing parties are gaining power as people tire of these socialist left government's spending all the people's money.

[Simon]

I'm not sure if it is the left or corruption and you get corruption either way. Governments don't run countries, they are merely the front for the corporations that have more impact on our lives than any new law. In the UK it is the right wing conservatives that have always been corrupt, you occasionally hear of something like Robert Jenrick was at a dinner with a housing developer, the developer wanted to get planning permission, compromising text messages emerge and the developer has made a significant donation to the party whilst getting his controversial planning permission. Media go mad over it and a week later it's all forgotten.

They will tell you that they have caped the profit margins of energy providers, yes, but they did nothing to control their friends in the oil and gas industry so the people causing the price hike and profiting massively are left to carry on, the people that simply resell the stuff are made to look like the bad guys. Always the right wing in the UK if you want incompetence, or rather corruption dressed up as incompetence.

[EEVblog]

Anything eco related is going to get an almost automatic tick.

Latest news is the Australian federal government is going to force the  Australian taxpayer to go profit guarantee for all these renewable projects, if they do not make enough profit for the owner, the taxpayer coughs up.

Link?
Doesn't surprise me though, they do this all the time for private toll roads for example. If the government builds any competing public transport infrastructure then they compensate the private companies for the loss 

[.RC.]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-11-23/australian-taxpayers-to-subsidise-renewable-energy-projects/103138990

[Simon]

Under the scheme, the Commonwealth underwrites new renewable projects through contracted revenue floors and ceilings, removing some of the risk by covering a company's costs when wholesale power prices are low, and recouping that money when prices are higher.

Depending on what that ceiling is it may balance out.

[.RC.]

Maybe, but apparently all the money the government would hand out is going to be secret and not revealed to the people.  The contracts are going to be secret.

We know that once the phrase "taxpayers money" is mentioned, corporations add x % to the cost.   The corporations are immensely much smarter then the politicians, whose only interest in staying in power via any means necessary.  The corporations only concern is making as much money as possible and "Damn you Jack, I'm alright" everyone else, plus they know what the politicians want.

So with the facts.

The politicians want to stay in power and we have a democracy.

The money involved is taxpayers money, not the politicians money.

The politicians have designed this so that any taxpayers money paid out is off budget and secret, the taxpayer will never know how much to whom.

Corporations only want to make money. That is their only goal.  All this talk of ESG and crap is just marketing to make more money.

Corporations are dictatorships and know the politicians only interest is staying in power and can thus manipulate the politicians because it is not the politicians money the politicians are pissing against the wall.

What does anyone think the outcome will be?

A highly expensive electricity generating network that has a short lifespan that the taxpayer is paying for either through the usage of electricity, or taxes.   

[Simon]

why would the network have a short lifespan? that's bad for business

[SiliconWizard]

why would the network have a short lifespan? that's bad for business

For whose business?