Author Topic: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review  (Read 64712 times)

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Offline Tony R

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EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« on: April 23, 2011, 03:52:34 pm »
I looked up the price of them on ebay, they do have the 220V models and the 110, but i noticed that the 110 goes for significantly more (20-30 USD more) you attempted to change it on the HP Power supply... can you change it on this? Maybe a blog idea...
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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2011, 04:26:04 pm »
afaik between 110 and 220V model, the only difference is the transformer (if it has one), changing that will change the model (between 110 and 220). about the price, maybe its due to geographic/economic reason or more copper ($) winding is needed on the secondary side to get to same V supply as 220V transformer.

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Offline Reuben

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2011, 05:23:49 pm »
I bought an x-tronic model off ebay with a fine pitch soldering iron attached.  Very happy with it. It came with extra heating elements for the hot air and the iron, 4 nozzles and 10 soldering tips of different sizes. Paid under 200.  Very nice.  I wish we had these in the 90s when I worked for Motorola.  We used paint stripper type devices instead.  I also have an XY- tronic with tweezers and iron.  I still have the xy-tronic one I bought from Jameco over 20 years ago to work on my commodore 64.           Regards  Reuben

 

Offline leniwiec

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2011, 06:59:23 pm »
This atten 858D is also sailed as ZHIAOXIN 858D and YiHUA 858D, and it has the same heater as AOYUE and PT products.
I wonder who copied from whom, or maybe it's just branding ;)
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2011, 10:21:53 pm »
Something that often surprises me seeing the insides of ultra-cheap stuff like this - why do they use  a crystal instead of a ceramic resonator?
I find it hard to believe that a crystal can ever be cheaper because of the packaging and caps.

Quality-wise, for something like this my main concern would be safety - How gracefully does it behave if the air intake is blocked - with 600w it wouldn't need to be blocked for long for bad things to happen. And how well earth-bonded is the shaft if the mains heater were to disintegrate.
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Offline bilko

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2011, 10:40:29 pm »
Here's a cheap solder station being made on a Chinese production line

 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2011, 10:57:20 pm »
Something that often surprises me seeing the insides of ultra-cheap stuff like this - why do they use  a crystal instead of a ceramic resonator?
I find it hard to believe that a crystal can ever be cheaper because of the packaging and caps.

It depends on what they have in stock and what they can get on the (grey?) market.
If they use the same crystal in many other products then it could very well be cheaper for them to use that instead of a resonator.

Dave.
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2011, 11:36:35 pm »
I recently bought a W.E.P 852D+ which is the unit that is being built in the video above. It cost GBP80.00 (~AU$120) inc postage from a UK supplier to a UK address. The unit provides a combined hot air rework station plus soldering iron , both with digital display and auto cool down mode after use.

The first thing I did when it arrived was to take it apart to check quality and safety. I know these units are built down to a budget but I have to say I was impressed with the neat layout of the cable looms and installation of the various parts. I did add a few cable ties where I saw loom cables too close to the pump but that was all that was needed. The earth bonding passed visual and PAT tests with my Seaward tester so it got the green light for switch on  :)

My 852D+ is basically a HAKKO type clone and uses a diaphragm pump pushing air through a hose to the hand piece. There is an option to have the handpiece with integral fan but I chose not to go that route...my reasoning.... I have heard of diaphragm pump hot air stations for many years and they are used in high cost machines so the technology appears popular and reliable. The new handle+fan combination is new to me and I had a nagging doubt about whether it was just a cost saving exercise. The fan has got to be a lot cheaper than my large and complex looking diaphragm pump. Interestingly the handle + fan stations claim far greater air flow than a diaphragm pump model yet both appear to do the required job well. I have been warned against using too high an air flow and blowing small SMD components off of PCB's so high air flow might mot be the best idea?

I am very new to hot air rework stations but the offerings from China are certainly good value for money and I can certainly confirm that the 852D+ performs very well indeed and isn't very loud in use. The build quality is not that of Metcal or Weller but it is definitely adequate for hobby use and small production runs.

The spares are freely available from China at great prices. The hot air elements cost me GBP3.35 each delivered to UK and the ceramic element for the soldering iron was GBP6.00 for five with free delivery ! I bought a 20 piece selection of ‘HAKKO’ soldering bits for GBP19. I also sourced a complete spare HAKKO soldering iron for GBP6.00 delivered, so I can use that if the W.E.P unit breaks. All parts look to be of decent quality.

I still like using my Weller PS2 TCP iron but I must move with the times and add SMD hot air soldering/de-soldering to my skills.

I see that Dave’s unit can be purchased via e*ay for GBP47 delivered to the UK for ‘free’. Amazing value BUT….my 852D+ is rated at 220V-240V and I have been warned against  buying 220V only models for use in the UK. I am not certain that there is an issue with over-volting the 220V models but it would be worth checking before purchase.

The Aoyue 328 working platform is also worthy of consideration. It's a little plasticy in appearance but holds a small PCB firmly to allow soldering/desoldering of components with the hot air handpiece. The plastic is stated as heat resistant but I have not tested this yet ! For GBP15 it wasn't too bad a buy as my bench vice didn't look to be the best choice for a PCB holder.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 11:42:00 pm by Aurora »
 

Offline Rufus

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2011, 12:51:21 am »
I recently bought a W.E.P 852D+ which is the unit that is being built in the video above.

I looked at one of those a few months ago and thought it a cheap copy of a cheap copy. It looked like the one in the build video from the outside but the PCBs and no doubt circuitry were completely different. The D part is just a couple of LED panel meters displaying the pot wiper voltage. The delayed pump turn off means some of it doesn't turn off at all and the supply for the hot air part of it seems to be from mains dropper resistors so the back of the unit stays warm while it is off, didn't measure the consumption. As for PAT testing the hot air nozzle wasn't earthed at all, nor was the metal socket/plug for the iron although the iron was. Tethered mains lead also no IEC socket.

I am surprised by your description/comments, but, maybe W.E.P. (whoever they are) are sticking their name on a different build now.

 

Offline bilko

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2011, 01:11:03 am »
This is the element for the Kada 852D, there looks to be 4 wires. I assume 2 for power and 2 for the thermocouple.

Whether or not the thermocouple is connected and monitored is another matter, it would be interesting to see one in a tear down.

« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 01:15:00 am by yachtronics »
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2011, 02:52:58 am »
This is the element for the Kada 852D, there looks to be 4 wires. I assume 2 for power and 2 for the thermocouple.
Whether or not the thermocouple is connected and monitored is another matter, it would be interesting to see one in a tear down.

yes it is monitored, the same to iron. after turn off, the gun still on until the temperature down at some setting then automatically off, there's magnet in the gun seat to automatically shut off fan when placed on the seat. mine is 852AD+, with gun and iron heaters + tips spare part included. no need to replace yet, hopefully for a long time, about a year old now, but not frequently used esp the gun (fan in the gun, not in the body). the only issue with me right now is some kind of lose connection that iron temperature display sometime showing wrong numbers, hammer it then its ok. but temperature monitoring/regulation is actually working behind. once it got worsen, i'll do the surgery. but so far no need.

about that video, i saw that before i buy this station year ago. i dont expect china product to last long. but this one i can give thumb up (only one thumb, not two), and i would not recommend other to buy. i prefer hakko station (iron only), the black colored one (old model), not the blue toy colored new model :P and my story above is just 10% of all. imho, whats 90% most important, is the original branded solder tip, mine is not original sometime i got pissed off (solder dont stick well and coating not so durable). even if you buy china station, make sure you get hakko original tip. this kada 852 is compatible with hakko tip, good news there. i will get a couple hakko tips when i'm stable. but what sux about hakko, is they only available from US. shipping the tip will cost nearly to buying the complete station, so that sux for me asian.

ps: i prefer fan in the gun. i can see thats just a small fan, but strong enough to blow big chip away. if damaged, easily replaced with small pc fan. but for diaphragm fan inside body, if its broken, its nowhere to be found. and the gun (with fan) cable wire is small and easy to work with. diaphragm got a big pipe going out to gun, i imagine that can be stiff. but i dont know, i never touch that pipe.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 03:03:31 am by Mechatrommer »
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Offline dimlow

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2011, 03:27:58 am »
I have the 825D+, had it for about 2 - 3 years now, not a single problem with it. It does not have the fan in the handle and the air tube is very flexible. Not had to change the heater element in it yet but do have a spare. I find the tips on the solder iron great. The best bit, it was cheap, but it seems to last.
 

Offline metalphreak

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2011, 05:13:51 am »
Fixed cable on the Atten unit is a bit of a bummer. No requirement for an air hose means they could have easily used a plug/socket instead. I've seen plenty of sellers on ebay with complete replacement handle units for the other brands.

Dave: A video on SMD soldering would be awesome, but I can see it being quite time consuming to cover all the different aspects ;)

Offline george graves

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2011, 06:15:30 am »
I'm looking on ebay and I see 858D and 858D+.  Anyone know the difference?

Offline armandas

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2011, 07:21:51 am »
Quality-wise, for something like this my main concern would be safety - How gracefully does it behave if the air intake is blocked - with 600w it wouldn't need to be blocked for long for bad things to happen. And how well earth-bonded is the shaft if the mains heater were to disintegrate.

I had a cheap 360W hot air gun with a nozzle diameter of about 10mm. I tried to modify it and reduce the hole size, but that did not end well. The air flow was too low and I blew the thermal fuse. These units are temperature regulated, so hopefully the controller would cut the power before the fuse. I assume that is reason why you can have different size nozzles and different air flow settings.
 

Offline insurgent

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2011, 08:15:03 am »
I'm looking on ebay and I see 858D and 858D+.  Anyone know the difference?

I believe the Plus model has a supposed "longer life" heater element that the non-plus model. Other than that I don't believe there is any difference. Though I believe I read that in an EBay ad so take this advice with a grain of salt.

 

Offline Fraser

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2011, 09:39:53 am »
I will recheck my 852D+ earthing and take some pictures etc. I tested for safety at switch on only and did not reverse engineer control PCB as I was keen to actually using it for some SMD disordering practice. When time permits (Easter celebrations etc) I shall do some more testing and see what the temperature stability is.

I was of the understanding that an 852D is a hot air station with digital display whereas the 852D+ is a hot air station with digital display PLUS a fine tipped temperature controlled soldering iron.

From comments made here, it is worth bearing in mind that though the cases appear similar, there would appear to be differences between their internals and possibly safety earthing. Mine was bought from a UK supplier and arrived from a UK warehouse so it is possible (though I must admit unlikely) that the UK stock is 'enhanced' to meet UK requirements for electrical safety.

The unit still performs very well though so I would still recommend it for hobby use at that price !

I will post again when I have delved inside my unit    :)
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 11:15:55 am by Aurora »
 

Offline TheWelly888

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2011, 10:33:27 am »
I noticed the spec stated that the power consumption of the unit is 700W. The power transformer is too small for 700W so the heater looks like it's on the full mains voltage. That explains why the handle is hard wired, DON'T be tempted to fit a DIN plug and socket to the front panel for the handle!

Doesn't the holes in the side of the centrifugal fan reduce the resultant air flow out of it? I probably would put some plasticard over those holes if I get one of these.

By the way, Dave, that's a good review - thanks!
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Offline Fraser

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2011, 11:08:53 am »
A fail on my part  :(

I quickly tested my W.E.P 852D+ and can confirm the following:

Mains Safety Earth Pin on plug continuity to 852D+ metal case - YES - PASS  :)

Mains Safety Earth Pin on plug continuity to 852D+ soldering iron metal tip & sleeve - YES -PASS  :)

Mains Safety Earth Pin on plug continuity to 852D+ soldering iron 5 pin metal connector - NO ! -FAIL  :(

Mains Safety Earth Pin on plug continuity to 852D+ hot air hand piece metal shroud and tips - NO ! -FAIL  :(


In my haste to get my 852D+ into service I failed a basic PAT testing requirement to test all exposed metal parts for safety earth continuity and performance. My mistake, sorry. The case did pass the PAT test as that is well earthed and passes the earth resistance test. The unit is NOT double insulated and so the soldering iron connector and hot air handpiece shroud should be earthed. 240V inside a non earthed metal shroud...not great  >:(  

I am VERY surprised at this omission as this UK supplied unit does not appear to meet UK safety regulations. I will take this matter up with W.E.P and see what they say. I am assuming that the heater in the hand piece is driven by a chopped 240V but this has yet to be checked by looking at the control board.

With regard to temperature setting. I have not had a chance to investigate this but on my 852D+ you set a temperature on the display and a red LED blinks to indicate the heater status. There is a thermocouple connected on the soldering iron and hot air hand piece but again , I have not checked the control board.

I Have a HAKKO 192 soldering iron thermometer so can check the accuracy of the soldering iron tip temperature quite easily.


It would be interesting to know if Dave's unit has the safety earth issues that are present on my 852D+.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 11:14:18 am by Aurora »
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2011, 12:50:46 pm »
Mains Safety Earth Pin on plug continuity to 852D+ soldering iron 5 pin metal connector - NO ! -FAIL  :(

Mains Safety Earth Pin on plug continuity to 852D+ hot air hand piece metal shroud and tips - NO ! -FAIL  :(

Why do you assume those parts have to be earthed? E.g. you assumption that the hot air handpiece is operated with 240 V is wrong. Same for the soldering iron.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2011, 01:05:31 pm »
It would be interesting to know if Dave's unit has the safety earth issues that are present on my 852D+.

Just had a quick look.
Yes, the metal hand piece is directly mains earthed, which I already knew.
The metal case also has continuity to mains earth, but I am not impressed by how it's done.
The mains earth pin goes direct to the PCB, which then also goes directly off to the hand piece, OK. But then a track comes off the pad going to the metal standoff for the front panel PCB.
I measured around 10ohms to the case.
Enough to trip an ELCB of course, but a proper solid mains earth, I think not. The traditional way is another wire from the earth pin to the transformer mounting lug or other direct point on the case.

Dave.
 

Offline Rufus

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2011, 01:06:03 pm »
It would be interesting to know if Dave's unit has the safety earth issues that are present on my 852D+.

Dave's video showed a connection called GND in the hot air head and a skinny green wire going to a tag on the heater sleeve.

In the build video for the KADA marked unit you can see 4 PCB standoffs on the back plate of the case, that is where the W.E.P. unit had a PCB. In that build video (at about 5:30) it looks like there is an earth strap on the heater sleeve.

From memory the W.E.P. unit had a PCB on the base of the case which looked like it would serve in a stand alone soldering iron. There was no large PCB behind the front panel like in the KADA video.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2011, 01:27:10 pm »

Why do you assume those parts have to be earthed? E.g. you assumption that the hot air handpiece is operated with 240 V is wrong. Same for the soldering iron.
If it's a 700W heater, and there isn't a transformer weighing several kilos, it's a mains heater.
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Offline Fraser

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2011, 01:36:19 pm »
Hi Boredatwork,

I am hoping you are correct and I have asked WEP for comment.

BUT....

A claimed 650W hot air heater running from say 24V would require a significant transformer that is not present. Maybe it's 650W Peak power ?

Further checks will be done when time permits.

This is certainly an interesting thread though as other forum members can decide which hot air stations are safe and which may be less so. There is also the opportunity to fit additional safety earths etc.

As I have already stated, I have not done a strip down of my unit and Rufus has made some interesting comments that I will certainly investigate.

I am pleased to hear that Dave's unit appears to at least try to earth the metal parts but earth wire cross sectional area could still be an issue. We are all aware of the differences in quality and safety design of various multimeters so I suppose we should expect variation in the quality and safety of other items such as the hot air stations.

I look forward to advising the forum of my findings once I get inside my hot air station  :)
 

Offline george graves

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2011, 10:28:48 pm »
I guess the "+" version has red buttons?





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