Author Topic: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review  (Read 64310 times)

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Offline T4P

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #75 on: March 23, 2012, 04:33:08 pm »
You will need to replace the heating element as well as it draws from the AC source directly. Its a 400W unit so you need a good-sized step up. Most of that is in the heater I would suspect. Its your choice whether to go step up or replace parts.

No . 700W .

hi im new here, i bought an atten 858d+, but i made the mistake of getting the 220 version, and it is too late for me to return it. I will do whatever it takes to get this thing to work on 110, if i can simply replace the transformer, then the only thing i would need is the specs of the transformer included in the 110 version, right?

when i started looking for one to buy, all i could find were 220v units, and i thought it would be simple enough to just use a US 220v outlet for a dryer or a upstep converter

ill appreciate any help i can get
A step up to 220V at 700W OR you TRY to find a replacement transformer and a 110V heating element .
Best is you getting a 700W step up
 

Offline don.r

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #76 on: March 23, 2012, 06:37:15 pm »
You will need to replace the heating element as well as it draws from the AC source directly. Its a 400W unit so you need a good-sized step up. Most of that is in the heater I would suspect. Its your choice whether to go step up or replace parts.

No . 700W .


I have seen them advertised as 400W. My killawatt says 250W max at full speed and 450C so I think 400W would be a safe bet.
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Offline george graves

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #77 on: March 23, 2012, 06:43:32 pm »
Might be easier to run 220 if you own your home.

Offline wwwyzzerdd

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #78 on: March 24, 2012, 04:52:53 am »
ah, I see. I didn't know that I would have to replace the element too. I suppose I should look for a step up converter, hopefully I can find one that can supply enough power, for a decent price

or install a 220v outlet in my shop. That's probably what I'll end up doing, appreciate the help guys
 

Offline Spawn

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #79 on: March 31, 2012, 03:49:50 am »
lol I was bored and reading some old topics and this one came up to my attention, I seen Dave’s video but I didn’t know there was a huge safety issues with these Atten’s

I got the AT8586 for a while now, it’s same housing only it has extra soldering iron on it, I just got it with the iron because price difference was almost nothing:


After reading this thread I got suspicious and tear apart my unit and as suspected the earth wire doesn’t even touch the housing and the transformer, it directly goes to the PCB, from there the hot air handheld and the soldering iron got their earth connection, both good attached.
You can see on this picture how it’s wired:


They used shrink tubes on the back at power connector, but they never heated so tubes where dangling around the wire  ::)

I took some wire and connected the earth to the transformer and the housing, because I put the earth wire to the bottom of the housing I was not sure if the other pieces get connected too, so before I start grinding on the housing parts I just put it together and did some measurements and amazingly every part of the housing has good earth connection:


Anyways, thanks to everyone who brought this to our attention  :)

Offline saturation

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #80 on: March 31, 2012, 12:18:13 pm »
Glad you found the issue in your unit.  The 3 additional issues reported besides poor grounding were:

220V MAINS voltage wired to ground

In my WEP branded 110V unit:
110V system NEUTRAL WIRE is switched, not the hot
Solder shorting the sensor wires of the heating element

Since the issues are slightly different for each build of the units, it behooves owners to tear down their units, because some other problem might occur that hasn't been reported.  I would check everything as if you built the unit as a kit, because even parts soldering to the PCB can be suspect.
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline ivan747

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Re: Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #81 on: March 31, 2012, 12:23:18 pm »
I received a 220v version by mistake.  Whoops.   I'd like to sell it if anyone is interested.  I'm in the Seattle, WA area - willing to ship.

Don't you have a 220V outlet with two hot lines? If not, you can also use a transformer. Get one that can be configured for both 110V and 220V (they have two separate 110V taps) and you get a pretty good dual voltage isolation transformer.
Nothing like the smell of rosin core solder in the morning.
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Offline Spawn

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #82 on: March 31, 2012, 03:38:25 pm »
Glad you found the issue in your unit.  The 3 additional issues reported besides poor grounding were:

...
 I would check everything as if you built the unit as a kit, because even parts soldering to the PCB can be suspect.

Thanks for the heads up Saturation, before I put the unit together I checked every possible issues known here and the PCB indeed, those look good, only issue was the housing without earth wire. We don't wire the neutral and hot in certain order so switching one of those wouldn't matter, in my opinion you guys have much better system like that.

Offline Mint.

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #83 on: April 23, 2012, 09:58:41 am »
Just got mine today! Came with chinese instructions :D
Switched it on, worked fine, then decided to test the max specs (450 Degrees and Max on fan) the thing started to smoke a bit, I accidentally breathed in a fair bit and I don't think it did any good to me I had to run out the door because my eyes got so teary :'( and now I have a headache, but I'm sure everything will be just fine by tomorrow. It's all good now, doesn't give out smoke like it did the first time I operated it 8). I checked the earth ground connection on my unit and everything was fine, and honestly I was amazed by the quality of something so cheap, the PCB from the top looked very neat and organised and I did not see anything dodgy with it. I am very impressed with the tool. However on my unit the sleep mode is very dodgy, it doesn't want to work most of the time. Anybody else had this issue? ::)
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Offline saturation

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #84 on: April 24, 2012, 10:34:56 am »
The sleep mode is just a magnetic sensitive switch, make sure it engages.  Given your unit smoked it would be prudent to tear it down, check the wiring connectors, the soldering.  I think you are the first to report both issues.

Just got mine today! Came with chinese instructions :D
Switched it on, worked fine, then decided to test the max specs (450 Degrees and Max on fan) the thing started to smoke a bit, I accidentally breathed in a fair bit and I don't think it did any good to me I had to run out the door because my eyes got so teary :'( and now I have a headache, but I'm sure everything will be just fine by tomorrow. It's all good now, doesn't give out smoke like it did the first time I operated it 8). I checked the earth ground connection on my unit and everything was fine, and honestly I was amazed by the quality of something so cheap, the PCB from the top looked very neat and organised and I did not see anything dodgy with it. I am very impressed with the tool. However on my unit the sleep mode is very dodgy, it doesn't want to work most of the time. Anybody else had this issue? ::)
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline LEECH666

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #85 on: April 24, 2012, 10:51:16 am »
I think all soldering stations undergo a sort of "burn in" effect when new. It's probably harmless (insulation hardening, silcon tubings). My 858D+ smoked a little too at first, but that went away quickly. And I don't even use it that often.

Florian
 

Offline Mint.

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #86 on: April 24, 2012, 11:05:01 am »
The sleep mode is just a magnetic sensitive switch, make sure it engages.  Given your unit smoked it would be prudent to tear it down, check the wiring connectors, the soldering.  I think you are the first to report both issues.

Just got mine today! Came with chinese instructions :D
Switched it on, worked fine, then decided to test the max specs (450 Degrees and Max on fan) the thing started to smoke a bit, I accidentally breathed in a fair bit and I don't think it did any good to me I had to run out the door because my eyes got so teary :'( and now I have a headache, but I'm sure everything will be just fine by tomorrow. It's all good now, doesn't give out smoke like it did the first time I operated it 8). I checked the earth ground connection on my unit and everything was fine, and honestly I was amazed by the quality of something so cheap, the PCB from the top looked very neat and organised and I did not see anything dodgy with it. I am very impressed with the tool. However on my unit the sleep mode is very dodgy, it doesn't want to work most of the time. Anybody else had this issue? ::)

Ignore the second part about the sleep mode, it works. I was just a bit confused on how it actually should work because I can't read it chinese :))
As far as the smoking goes... I did a teardown and I did not find anything wrong with the unit.
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Offline saturation

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #87 on: April 24, 2012, 12:46:21 pm »
Sounds like 2 of you now report smoke issues.  But yes, often the benign thing is debris inside the heating tube, or thin layers of oils that burn away when the unit is first used, its nothing to be concerned about but you'd see it first by tearing it down before turning it on, because if it was something else or worse, miswired, more than smoke could result.

I think all soldering stations undergo a sort of "burn in" effect when new. It's probably harmless (insulation hardening, silcon tubings). My 858D+ smoked a little too at first, but that went away quickly. And I don't even use it that often.

Florian
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Mikey

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #88 on: November 21, 2012, 07:05:14 pm »
Old topic, but just wanted to say thanks for this video. Just bought one of these, and man I am happy about it. :) Just got my SMD adventures taken to a new level! :-+
captain-slow.dk | 3D printing | CNC machining | Mechanical designs | Simple electronics
 

Offline Guppzor

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #89 on: February 04, 2013, 11:03:02 am »
Another post to revive the thread from the dead. I received my 858D+ today (purchased from eBay of course) and in true EEVBlog style had to tear it down. The main reason was to check to see if there were any faults with the wiring as another member found with their unit. All appeared fine inside as per Dave's vid. I took the 'wand' apart to have a look and the fan/blower is 100% intact with no signs of being attacked as per the vid.

As for the performance, Dave is right. Although the fan volume in the vid seems loud, it is pretty darn quiet even at full speed. The temperature does tend to overshoot initially, but it does settle in pretty darn quick.

All in all, for under $80 it is going to be a very handy and inexpensive tool to have on my bench :-D
 

Offline Rick

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #90 on: February 04, 2013, 12:32:21 pm »
Are the nozzles of this unit in standard dimensions? So that any other nozzle can be mounted on it...
http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_odkw=Atten+nozzles&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313&_nkw=qfp+nozzles&_sacat=0
Or is it specific to Atten?
 

Offline T4P

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #91 on: February 08, 2013, 09:40:45 am »
Yes, about that. I have one myself though you can't fit a Yihua 858D nozzles to it but a big aliexpress store assured me the 850's nozzles will fit because the 850's use a clamp nozzle instead of a latch-on sadly you can't hotswap the nozzles, the yihua will do it if you would like to change the whole handle

Had a problem with my unit (Not really a atten but a modified one with different firmware) (A single one!) : When i first got it it would just start (Yes it does, it spins up the fan to test whether it's dead or not) and then stop.
And guess what? The magnetic reed switch is dead. It's a normally closed type (when there isn't a magnet) and it's broken. Luckily the firmware was designed to start the heater and fan when the switch is open not closed, would have been trouble if it was designed the other way round (i.e a normally open(if there is) switch with firmware designed to start when it's closed will invite trouble, why? A normally open switch will mostly likely fail shorted and on a normally closed switch it will fail closed)

So the donor was my previous Yihua 858D's body and transplanted it. Kinda like it's been given another life after it's owner has been dead 10-11 months

But the weirdest thing is that no "burn-in" occured on heating up (The mica paper in this case) neither did my Yihua 858D a year back
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 10:41:27 am by T4P »
 

Offline Orpheus

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #92 on: February 20, 2013, 03:18:06 pm »
I'm about to pull the trigger on a hobbyist hot air station, but with so many models out there, it's hard to decide. I read the entire thread, but didn't get a good sense of the benefits of the diaphragm-pump models over the handle-fan models, though I understand that the former is used in "professional units". I'd love to hear from those with experience.
 

Offline T4P

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #93 on: February 21, 2013, 12:17:44 pm »
Frankly i used a real FR-203B in school, kind of like it but too much pressure.
A 852D from china on the other hand ... too much vibration. Nasty
Just to keep in mind the 858D has not much vibration or whatsoever just a slight whirring of the fan
 

Offline uprightsquire

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #94 on: February 21, 2013, 09:58:27 pm »
Planning my first smt board so picked up one from an australian seller on ebay, only 2 days delivery by regular post, AU$62. Nuts.

Nozzle tied to earth, case not. English manual. The type of air pump is listed as 'Gentle wind of brushless fan'  :o
 

Offline Orpheus

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #95 on: February 22, 2013, 05:20:28 am »
Thanks T4P.  That was actually a specific puzzler for me. I couldn't imagine how a diaphragm pump *wouldn't* produce a more pulsing airflow than a fan, or how that could fail to be a minor annoyance. I wasn't thinking of vibration but rather the modest (but terribly annoying) risk of dislodging a part with the higher peak pressure of a pulsing source. I can easily imagine mitigating design elements (e.g. the elastic silicone hose) but mitigation isn't preferable to lacking the problem in the first place.

Also, the heating element is in the handpiece, either way, and I'd have imagined (until this thread) that it would be easier and cheaper for the Chinese factories to get the wiring/grounding right with suitable diameter conductors in a plain wire bundle cable vs some silicone tube hybrid construction. Actually how DO diaphragm pump units supply the heater and ground the hand-piece? A second cable? I can't imagine the heater is in the base unit-- a hot silicone cable would be terrible to work around.

*sigh* my 90s era home-brew unit is looking better all the time.
 

Offline T4P

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #96 on: February 22, 2013, 04:06:09 pm »
Planning my first smt board so picked up one from an australian seller on ebay, only 2 days delivery by regular post, AU$62. Nuts.

Nozzle tied to earth, case not. English manual. The type of air pump is listed as 'Gentle wind of brushless fan'  :o
Google translate ala 2009  :P

Also, the heating element is in the handpiece, either way, and I'd have imagined (until this thread) that it would be easier and cheaper for the Chinese factories to get the wiring/grounding right with suitable diameter conductors in a plain wire bundle cable vs some silicone tube hybrid construction. Actually how DO diaphragm pump units supply the heater and ground the hand-piece? A second cable? I can't imagine the heater is in the base unit-- a hot silicone cable would be terrible to work around.
Think it's got to do with the wire free-hanging in the hose or really embossed into the hose itself. Could be, the 850 clones is not cheap (i.e 858D costs 15US$ and a 850b 50-60$) even in china.
If you look at the clones a bit closely you can see a bit of a bulge
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 04:11:15 pm by T4P »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #97 on: February 22, 2013, 05:36:26 pm »
Professional hot air stations use a diaphragm pump or in some cases such as PACE hot air guns, a high speed turbine compressor is used. The power and any control cables run inside the air hose to the handpiece. All this is very common in the industry.

The design of the 'whisper' quiet hot air guns with a fan in the handle was quite novel. I can't help thinking the original idea probably came from a hair dryer ! It works in very much the same way and hair dryers have been designed like this for decades. I own several hot air stations including one of the Atten 858D units.

IMHO both do the job required of them but I personally prefer the diaphragm design. For your information, the twin diaphragm pump should be neither noisy nor vibrate if set up correctly. Mine produce a quiet thrumming noise and do not bibrate to any degree due to good rubber motor mounts. The air flow of the diaphragm pump is easily controllable and an inbuilt air reservoir removes the air pulsing effect that you were concerned about.

The 858D is a disaster in terms of production quality but this is easily rectified if you are willing to go through it and fix all the problems i.e poor earthing, incorrect fusing, partially blocked air intakes on handle, poorly mounted fan etc. No such problems were experienced on any of my other hot air stations but then they cost more than the 858D.

I use the 858D only for light duty portable work. The daily workshop tasks are carried out using a WEP 852D+, Aoyue 850, Duratool ZD-939 and the superb PACE TF200 with full process control  8) All except the PACE use a dual diaphragm 'flat twin' pump. Avoid cheaper single diaphragm pumps as they do vibrate due to the unbalanced nature of the design. As stated the PACE uses a fancy high speed turbine air compressor....but then it cost a small fortune when new !

Buy what ever suits your pocket, but IMHO buy mid range and not the cheapest model if you want acceptable quality and longevity.

Fraser
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 07:53:03 pm by Aurora »
 

Offline Orpheus

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #98 on: February 22, 2013, 07:06:31 pm »
Thank you for your thorough response on diaphragm-pump units. The air supply was the one big technical issue I could only guess at after reading the thread, which was otherwise quite clear to me.

I certainly don't mind doing a bit of fix-up. I've capriciously modified perfectly functional commercial products to my tastes since I was a teen (which was longer ago than seems possible; I'm going to have a long talk with my mirror about the clearly faulty "white balance" in my hair). In fact, I've often felt hobbled by warranties -- they are lovely to have, especially for items you rely on, but when the warranty ends,  the freedom and fun truly begin. More often than not, it's faster, easier (and dare I say 'more reliable') to fix it myself than abandon it to the tender mercies of a distant authorized service center anyway.

I originally leaned toward a WEP 858D, simply because an out-of-town friend has one and likes it (alas, a personal inspection is impractical), but ironically, the strongest deterrent was that it happens to have the cheapest total price on eBay and fastest US delivery at present (from one seller; others charge more and ship slower) My second and third (and possibly more) choices were American 2-in-1 or 3-in-1 stations, some with diaphragm pumps. Hence my questions.

I knew that pro units seem to choose the pump, but my heart favored the simpler mechanics and wiring of a fan handpiece vs a more complex pump and silicone tube/cable hybrid -- especially should a repair or replacement be necessary.

I expect the US units to have better consistency, quality and local standards compliance (they have more to lose), yet at least two US models (one with a diaphragm) manage to be only slightly more expensive on eBay, all things considered, despite what I assume must be higher costs (can the edge lie in shipping?) I'd likely chose those, but their footprint is MUCH larger.  (Maybe they get those cases/parts cheaper?)

I have a large workshop, but no matter where I sit, I can only reach X sq ft of bench/shelf -- a silly but real obstacle.

Oh well, the bank called this morning to report "suspicious activity" on the card I was going to use (though all the transactions I see are with US retailers I've bought from before), so I guess I'll wait until all that is sorted out on Monday.
 

Offline tylerl

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Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #99 on: February 22, 2013, 07:33:17 pm »
Actually how DO diaphragm pump units supply the heater and ground the hand-piece? A second cable? I can't imagine the heater is in the base unit-- a hot silicone cable would be terrible to work around.

Diaphragm pump units still put the heater in the hand-piece, just like the fan unit does. The wiring for the heater/thermocouple run inside the air hose.

FWIW, I briefly owned a pump unit and returned it because the noise was annoying. Even with several levels of noise dampening and isolation within the box, the thump-thump-thump was problematic for when I needed to work after the kids went to bed. I purchased a cheap Chinese 898D+ (same as the 858D+ but w/ a soldering iron) off Amazon for half the price, and I'm happy with the results.
 


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