Author Topic: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review  (Read 64276 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tony R

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 117
  • Country: 00
EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« on: April 23, 2011, 03:52:34 pm »
I looked up the price of them on ebay, they do have the 220V models and the 110, but i noticed that the 110 goes for significantly more (20-30 USD more) you attempted to change it on the HP Power supply... can you change it on this? Maybe a blog idea...
Tony R.
Computer Engineering Student
Focus: Embedded Assembly Programming, Realtime Systems,  IEEE Student Member
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8941
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2011, 04:26:04 pm »
afaik between 110 and 220V model, the only difference is the transformer (if it has one), changing that will change the model (between 110 and 220). about the price, maybe its due to geographic/economic reason or more copper ($) winding is needed on the secondary side to get to same V supply as 220V transformer.

Regards,
Shafri ;)
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline Reuben

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 11
  • Genius=90% persistance 5% luck 5% brain power
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2011, 05:23:49 pm »
I bought an x-tronic model off ebay with a fine pitch soldering iron attached.  Very happy with it. It came with extra heating elements for the hot air and the iron, 4 nozzles and 10 soldering tips of different sizes. Paid under 200.  Very nice.  I wish we had these in the 90s when I worked for Motorola.  We used paint stripper type devices instead.  I also have an XY- tronic with tweezers and iron.  I still have the xy-tronic one I bought from Jameco over 20 years ago to work on my commodore 64.           Regards  Reuben

 

Offline leniwiec

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 28
    • EE & IT Blog
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2011, 06:59:23 pm »
This atten 858D is also sailed as ZHIAOXIN 858D and YiHUA 858D, and it has the same heater as AOYUE and PT products.
I wonder who copied from whom, or maybe it's just branding ;)
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11935
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2011, 10:21:53 pm »
Something that often surprises me seeing the insides of ultra-cheap stuff like this - why do they use  a crystal instead of a ceramic resonator?
I find it hard to believe that a crystal can ever be cheaper because of the packaging and caps.

Quality-wise, for something like this my main concern would be safety - How gracefully does it behave if the air intake is blocked - with 600w it wouldn't need to be blocked for long for bad things to happen. And how well earth-bonded is the shaft if the mains heater were to disintegrate.
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline bilko

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 405
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2011, 10:40:29 pm »
Here's a cheap solder station being made on a Chinese production line

 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29234
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2011, 10:57:20 pm »
Something that often surprises me seeing the insides of ultra-cheap stuff like this - why do they use  a crystal instead of a ceramic resonator?
I find it hard to believe that a crystal can ever be cheaper because of the packaging and caps.

It depends on what they have in stock and what they can get on the (grey?) market.
If they use the same crystal in many other products then it could very well be cheaper for them to use that instead of a resonator.

Dave.
 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8318
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2011, 11:36:35 pm »
I recently bought a W.E.P 852D+ which is the unit that is being built in the video above. It cost GBP80.00 (~AU$120) inc postage from a UK supplier to a UK address. The unit provides a combined hot air rework station plus soldering iron , both with digital display and auto cool down mode after use.

The first thing I did when it arrived was to take it apart to check quality and safety. I know these units are built down to a budget but I have to say I was impressed with the neat layout of the cable looms and installation of the various parts. I did add a few cable ties where I saw loom cables too close to the pump but that was all that was needed. The earth bonding passed visual and PAT tests with my Seaward tester so it got the green light for switch on  :)

My 852D+ is basically a HAKKO type clone and uses a diaphragm pump pushing air through a hose to the hand piece. There is an option to have the handpiece with integral fan but I chose not to go that route...my reasoning.... I have heard of diaphragm pump hot air stations for many years and they are used in high cost machines so the technology appears popular and reliable. The new handle+fan combination is new to me and I had a nagging doubt about whether it was just a cost saving exercise. The fan has got to be a lot cheaper than my large and complex looking diaphragm pump. Interestingly the handle + fan stations claim far greater air flow than a diaphragm pump model yet both appear to do the required job well. I have been warned against using too high an air flow and blowing small SMD components off of PCB's so high air flow might mot be the best idea?

I am very new to hot air rework stations but the offerings from China are certainly good value for money and I can certainly confirm that the 852D+ performs very well indeed and isn't very loud in use. The build quality is not that of Metcal or Weller but it is definitely adequate for hobby use and small production runs.

The spares are freely available from China at great prices. The hot air elements cost me GBP3.35 each delivered to UK and the ceramic element for the soldering iron was GBP6.00 for five with free delivery ! I bought a 20 piece selection of ‘HAKKO’ soldering bits for GBP19. I also sourced a complete spare HAKKO soldering iron for GBP6.00 delivered, so I can use that if the W.E.P unit breaks. All parts look to be of decent quality.

I still like using my Weller PS2 TCP iron but I must move with the times and add SMD hot air soldering/de-soldering to my skills.

I see that Dave’s unit can be purchased via e*ay for GBP47 delivered to the UK for ‘free’. Amazing value BUT….my 852D+ is rated at 220V-240V and I have been warned against  buying 220V only models for use in the UK. I am not certain that there is an issue with over-volting the 220V models but it would be worth checking before purchase.

The Aoyue 328 working platform is also worthy of consideration. It's a little plasticy in appearance but holds a small PCB firmly to allow soldering/desoldering of components with the hot air handpiece. The plastic is stated as heat resistant but I have not tested this yet ! For GBP15 it wasn't too bad a buy as my bench vice didn't look to be the best choice for a PCB holder.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 11:42:00 pm by Aurora »
 

Offline Rufus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2094
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2011, 12:51:21 am »
I recently bought a W.E.P 852D+ which is the unit that is being built in the video above.

I looked at one of those a few months ago and thought it a cheap copy of a cheap copy. It looked like the one in the build video from the outside but the PCBs and no doubt circuitry were completely different. The D part is just a couple of LED panel meters displaying the pot wiper voltage. The delayed pump turn off means some of it doesn't turn off at all and the supply for the hot air part of it seems to be from mains dropper resistors so the back of the unit stays warm while it is off, didn't measure the consumption. As for PAT testing the hot air nozzle wasn't earthed at all, nor was the metal socket/plug for the iron although the iron was. Tethered mains lead also no IEC socket.

I am surprised by your description/comments, but, maybe W.E.P. (whoever they are) are sticking their name on a different build now.

 

Offline bilko

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 405
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2011, 01:11:03 am »
This is the element for the Kada 852D, there looks to be 4 wires. I assume 2 for power and 2 for the thermocouple.

Whether or not the thermocouple is connected and monitored is another matter, it would be interesting to see one in a tear down.

« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 01:15:00 am by yachtronics »
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8941
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2011, 02:52:58 am »
This is the element for the Kada 852D, there looks to be 4 wires. I assume 2 for power and 2 for the thermocouple.
Whether or not the thermocouple is connected and monitored is another matter, it would be interesting to see one in a tear down.

yes it is monitored, the same to iron. after turn off, the gun still on until the temperature down at some setting then automatically off, there's magnet in the gun seat to automatically shut off fan when placed on the seat. mine is 852AD+, with gun and iron heaters + tips spare part included. no need to replace yet, hopefully for a long time, about a year old now, but not frequently used esp the gun (fan in the gun, not in the body). the only issue with me right now is some kind of lose connection that iron temperature display sometime showing wrong numbers, hammer it then its ok. but temperature monitoring/regulation is actually working behind. once it got worsen, i'll do the surgery. but so far no need.

about that video, i saw that before i buy this station year ago. i dont expect china product to last long. but this one i can give thumb up (only one thumb, not two), and i would not recommend other to buy. i prefer hakko station (iron only), the black colored one (old model), not the blue toy colored new model :P and my story above is just 10% of all. imho, whats 90% most important, is the original branded solder tip, mine is not original sometime i got pissed off (solder dont stick well and coating not so durable). even if you buy china station, make sure you get hakko original tip. this kada 852 is compatible with hakko tip, good news there. i will get a couple hakko tips when i'm stable. but what sux about hakko, is they only available from US. shipping the tip will cost nearly to buying the complete station, so that sux for me asian.

ps: i prefer fan in the gun. i can see thats just a small fan, but strong enough to blow big chip away. if damaged, easily replaced with small pc fan. but for diaphragm fan inside body, if its broken, its nowhere to be found. and the gun (with fan) cable wire is small and easy to work with. diaphragm got a big pipe going out to gun, i imagine that can be stiff. but i dont know, i never touch that pipe.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 03:03:31 am by Mechatrommer »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline dimlow

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 301
  • Country: gb
  • Likes to be thought of as
    • Dimlow Ponders
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2011, 03:27:58 am »
I have the 825D+, had it for about 2 - 3 years now, not a single problem with it. It does not have the fan in the handle and the air tube is very flexible. Not had to change the heater element in it yet but do have a spare. I find the tips on the solder iron great. The best bit, it was cheap, but it seems to last.
 

Offline metalphreak

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 815
  • Country: au
  • http://d.av.id.au
    • D.av.id.AU
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2011, 05:13:51 am »
Fixed cable on the Atten unit is a bit of a bummer. No requirement for an air hose means they could have easily used a plug/socket instead. I've seen plenty of sellers on ebay with complete replacement handle units for the other brands.

Dave: A video on SMD soldering would be awesome, but I can see it being quite time consuming to cover all the different aspects ;)

Offline george graves

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1259
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2011, 06:15:30 am »
I'm looking on ebay and I see 858D and 858D+.  Anyone know the difference?

Offline armandas

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 336
  • Country: jp
    • My projects
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2011, 07:21:51 am »
Quality-wise, for something like this my main concern would be safety - How gracefully does it behave if the air intake is blocked - with 600w it wouldn't need to be blocked for long for bad things to happen. And how well earth-bonded is the shaft if the mains heater were to disintegrate.

I had a cheap 360W hot air gun with a nozzle diameter of about 10mm. I tried to modify it and reduce the hole size, but that did not end well. The air flow was too low and I blew the thermal fuse. These units are temperature regulated, so hopefully the controller would cut the power before the fuse. I assume that is reason why you can have different size nozzles and different air flow settings.
 

Offline insurgent

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 77
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2011, 08:15:03 am »
I'm looking on ebay and I see 858D and 858D+.  Anyone know the difference?

I believe the Plus model has a supposed "longer life" heater element that the non-plus model. Other than that I don't believe there is any difference. Though I believe I read that in an EBay ad so take this advice with a grain of salt.

 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8318
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2011, 09:39:53 am »
I will recheck my 852D+ earthing and take some pictures etc. I tested for safety at switch on only and did not reverse engineer control PCB as I was keen to actually using it for some SMD disordering practice. When time permits (Easter celebrations etc) I shall do some more testing and see what the temperature stability is.

I was of the understanding that an 852D is a hot air station with digital display whereas the 852D+ is a hot air station with digital display PLUS a fine tipped temperature controlled soldering iron.

From comments made here, it is worth bearing in mind that though the cases appear similar, there would appear to be differences between their internals and possibly safety earthing. Mine was bought from a UK supplier and arrived from a UK warehouse so it is possible (though I must admit unlikely) that the UK stock is 'enhanced' to meet UK requirements for electrical safety.

The unit still performs very well though so I would still recommend it for hobby use at that price !

I will post again when I have delved inside my unit    :)
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 11:15:55 am by Aurora »
 

Offline TheWelly888

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 339
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2011, 10:33:27 am »
I noticed the spec stated that the power consumption of the unit is 700W. The power transformer is too small for 700W so the heater looks like it's on the full mains voltage. That explains why the handle is hard wired, DON'T be tempted to fit a DIN plug and socket to the front panel for the handle!

Doesn't the holes in the side of the centrifugal fan reduce the resultant air flow out of it? I probably would put some plasticard over those holes if I get one of these.

By the way, Dave, that's a good review - thanks!
You can do anything with the right attitude and a hammer.
 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8318
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2011, 11:08:53 am »
A fail on my part  :(

I quickly tested my W.E.P 852D+ and can confirm the following:

Mains Safety Earth Pin on plug continuity to 852D+ metal case - YES - PASS  :)

Mains Safety Earth Pin on plug continuity to 852D+ soldering iron metal tip & sleeve - YES -PASS  :)

Mains Safety Earth Pin on plug continuity to 852D+ soldering iron 5 pin metal connector - NO ! -FAIL  :(

Mains Safety Earth Pin on plug continuity to 852D+ hot air hand piece metal shroud and tips - NO ! -FAIL  :(


In my haste to get my 852D+ into service I failed a basic PAT testing requirement to test all exposed metal parts for safety earth continuity and performance. My mistake, sorry. The case did pass the PAT test as that is well earthed and passes the earth resistance test. The unit is NOT double insulated and so the soldering iron connector and hot air handpiece shroud should be earthed. 240V inside a non earthed metal shroud...not great  >:(  

I am VERY surprised at this omission as this UK supplied unit does not appear to meet UK safety regulations. I will take this matter up with W.E.P and see what they say. I am assuming that the heater in the hand piece is driven by a chopped 240V but this has yet to be checked by looking at the control board.

With regard to temperature setting. I have not had a chance to investigate this but on my 852D+ you set a temperature on the display and a red LED blinks to indicate the heater status. There is a thermocouple connected on the soldering iron and hot air hand piece but again , I have not checked the control board.

I Have a HAKKO 192 soldering iron thermometer so can check the accuracy of the soldering iron tip temperature quite easily.


It would be interesting to know if Dave's unit has the safety earth issues that are present on my 852D+.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 11:14:18 am by Aurora »
 

Offline Bored@Work

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3932
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2011, 12:50:46 pm »
Mains Safety Earth Pin on plug continuity to 852D+ soldering iron 5 pin metal connector - NO ! -FAIL  :(

Mains Safety Earth Pin on plug continuity to 852D+ hot air hand piece metal shroud and tips - NO ! -FAIL  :(

Why do you assume those parts have to be earthed? E.g. you assumption that the hot air handpiece is operated with 240 V is wrong. Same for the soldering iron.
I delete PMs unread. If you have something to say, say it in public.
For all else: Profile->[Modify Profile]Buddies/Ignore List->Edit Ignore List
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29234
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2011, 01:05:31 pm »
It would be interesting to know if Dave's unit has the safety earth issues that are present on my 852D+.

Just had a quick look.
Yes, the metal hand piece is directly mains earthed, which I already knew.
The metal case also has continuity to mains earth, but I am not impressed by how it's done.
The mains earth pin goes direct to the PCB, which then also goes directly off to the hand piece, OK. But then a track comes off the pad going to the metal standoff for the front panel PCB.
I measured around 10ohms to the case.
Enough to trip an ELCB of course, but a proper solid mains earth, I think not. The traditional way is another wire from the earth pin to the transformer mounting lug or other direct point on the case.

Dave.
 

Offline Rufus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2094
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2011, 01:06:03 pm »
It would be interesting to know if Dave's unit has the safety earth issues that are present on my 852D+.

Dave's video showed a connection called GND in the hot air head and a skinny green wire going to a tag on the heater sleeve.

In the build video for the KADA marked unit you can see 4 PCB standoffs on the back plate of the case, that is where the W.E.P. unit had a PCB. In that build video (at about 5:30) it looks like there is an earth strap on the heater sleeve.

From memory the W.E.P. unit had a PCB on the base of the case which looked like it would serve in a stand alone soldering iron. There was no large PCB behind the front panel like in the KADA video.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11935
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2011, 01:27:10 pm »

Why do you assume those parts have to be earthed? E.g. you assumption that the hot air handpiece is operated with 240 V is wrong. Same for the soldering iron.
If it's a 700W heater, and there isn't a transformer weighing several kilos, it's a mains heater.
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8318
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2011, 01:36:19 pm »
Hi Boredatwork,

I am hoping you are correct and I have asked WEP for comment.

BUT....

A claimed 650W hot air heater running from say 24V would require a significant transformer that is not present. Maybe it's 650W Peak power ?

Further checks will be done when time permits.

This is certainly an interesting thread though as other forum members can decide which hot air stations are safe and which may be less so. There is also the opportunity to fit additional safety earths etc.

As I have already stated, I have not done a strip down of my unit and Rufus has made some interesting comments that I will certainly investigate.

I am pleased to hear that Dave's unit appears to at least try to earth the metal parts but earth wire cross sectional area could still be an issue. We are all aware of the differences in quality and safety design of various multimeters so I suppose we should expect variation in the quality and safety of other items such as the hot air stations.

I look forward to advising the forum of my findings once I get inside my hot air station  :)
 

Offline george graves

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1259
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2011, 10:28:48 pm »
I guess the "+" version has red buttons?




Offline sacherjj

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 993
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2011, 03:19:31 pm »
Converting a 220V version to work with 110V for the electronics is pretty easy.  However, if the heater is mains powered, how would that work?  Seems like it would be possible that the max temps would not be reachable with 1/2 the potential across the heater.

Guess the safest move is to buy the normal 110V for the extra money.
 

Offline UnaClocker

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 13
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2011, 04:37:58 pm »
I have a question about the 220v version.. Here in the US, we have 110v and 220v in our houses, the 110v goes to the normal wall outlets, and the 220v goes to things like the electric stove, clothes drier, Mig welder.. heh.. Could this be wired up to that 220v, to work in the US? Or would that not work? (Why wouldn't it work?)
Great review.. Seems like every time you review something, I've gotta have it, right afterwards. :)
 

Offline sacherjj

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 993
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2011, 05:01:37 pm »
I have a question about the 220v version.. Here in the US, we have 110v and 220v in our houses, the 110v goes to the normal wall outlets, and the 220v goes to things like the electric stove, clothes drier, Mig welder.. heh.. Could this be wired up to that 220v, to work in the US? Or would that not work? (Why wouldn't it work?)
Great review.. Seems like every time you review something, I've gotta have it, right afterwards. :)

The only thing that will be powered by unfiltered mains power is the heating element and I doubt that 50 vs 60hz will mean anything to that.  However, the hassle of getting 220V to your work location may not be worth it.

Search on ebay for "hot air 858 110" and you will find quite a few 110V models.  The $20US difference in price makes any 220 -> 110 work not worth it.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8941
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2011, 11:22:33 pm »
its safer to buy the appropriate rated equpment rather than risk of wasting time tinkering with it, additional components price for the mod and lastly the risk of damaging the equipment itself.
Regards,
Shafri.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline mzacharias

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 577
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2011, 10:43:14 am »
I wonder how this rework station does when a surface-mount IC is also glued to the board, as is often the case in consumer electronics. I use a similar device which directs hot air to the IC leads while I drag a wire from behind. Once the leads are free from the pads, I can "chip" the IC body off the board with a small screwdriver and mallet. My question is, does the rework station also soften any glue which may be under an IC body, so that these chips can also be removed in the manner shown in Dave's video? If so it seems like a better solution for general IC removal than what I have been doing. I don't deal in BGA if that is relevant - only conventional surface mount, with visible leads.
 

Offline Cj1corbystarlet

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 31
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2011, 11:43:55 am »
I hope this Atten hot air rework station is a good entry level gear, as I should have one land on my door step tommorrow some time.

"Be warned old PCB's stacked up in a box I'll have a hot air gun and i'm not afraid to use it ......."

Ben




 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8318
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2011, 06:56:42 pm »
For those who are interested, I have detailed the internal modules and operating principle of my W.E.P 852D+ hot air station in the following posting:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3237.msg43241#msg43241
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 10:08:43 pm by Aurora »
 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8318
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2011, 10:39:53 pm »
I just ordered an Atten 858D+ from China for GBP44 delivered which seemed pretty reasonable. I need a unit that is more portable than my large W.E.P 852D+ and the Atten offering appears to fulfill that requirement. From what I have seen this unit would appear to use a more sophisticated temperature control loop than my 852D+ so that can only be good news. The stated 220V rating has me a little concerned but for GBP40 I am willing to risk it.

Another concern I have about the Atten 858D+ is the amateur modification of the 'snail shell' fan housing. The two holes will cause an air leak on the air output side which doesn't seem a good idea. I wondered if they were a deliberate air bleed to cool components in the rear of the handle but that looks unlikely as I couldn't see any of such components in the video !  If my unit has the holes I will plastic weld some thin model makers plasti-card across them and check to ensure it doesn't upset the units operation.
 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8318
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2011, 11:11:00 pm »
I just stumbled across an interesting advert for the 858D from YIHUA.....

http://gz-yh.en.gongchang.com/product/4680226

YIHUA appear to have made my W.E.P 852D+ and from the advert they also appear to make an 858D that at least looks like the reviewed Atten product. The really interesting part of the advert is at the bottom... they are selling a 220V unit but can supply 110V/230V/240V to special order. That would seem to suggest that the 220V will run a little hot when used on 230V/240V  ;D

I wonder how long mine will last before something goes POP! ?
 

Offline _Sin

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 247
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2011, 10:25:05 pm »
Does anyone know anything about the Atten 860D ?

Looking at Atten's own website, they don't seem to list the cheaper models like the one Dave reviewed, but they do have these more expensive units (and they seem to be more readily available locally, rather than shipping from China). I'm interested to know what the difference is (beyond having a pump instead of a fan, and cosmetic stuff).
Programmer with a soldering iron - fear me.
 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8318
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2011, 11:16:55 pm »
I just received my ATTEN 858D+ and in true EEVBlog fashion, took it apart  :D

Dave, I think you need to do some remedial work on your units fan. I took my handpiece apart and it is fitted with the same fan as yours, but in my unit the two lugs have been carefully removed so as to not puncture the fans casing. Those holes that have been hacked into your fans case can't be a good idea and could reduce your nozzle pressure.

The unit certainly seems to work OK but on first impressions I think I still prefer my W.E.P 852D+ with it's pump.

Pictures of my 858D+ fan attached.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2011, 11:26:53 pm by Aurora »
 

Offline sacherjj

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 993
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2011, 03:32:29 am »
Well,  I joined the crowd and got a 110V main Atten 858D+ on the way, from eBay for $75.  Seems to run $75-99 for the 110V model.
 

Offline logictom

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 336
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2011, 12:21:19 pm »
I too have ordered one of these units from ebay for £45. I'll soon be starting on some smd work and with the cheap price and thumbs up from Dave it was a no brainer.

I reckon a few of the products recommended on here must get a mini boom in sales after they are reviewed ;D
 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8318
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2011, 10:03:26 pm »
The unit is certainly pretty good value for money but I think, to be fair to potential buyers, I should state the following....

Upon dismantling the handpiece I was singularly unimpressed with the construction. I know it's cheap but there is no excuse for the deficiencies detailed below

1. The fan is a bastardised COTS product butchered to fit the case and in Dave's unit butchered is the operative word.
2. The fan does not rest in moulded supports within the handpiece, it just floats in the rear void directly on top of the small PCB.
3. The fan has a metalised label that is in close proximity to the above mentioned small PCB solder side...not a great idea ! Insulation should have been placed over the PCB.
4. On my unit the neoprene fan output air director was poorly installed semi obscuring the fans exit port and not permitting correct seating of the neoprene air director within it's 'mounts'.
5. The fan air intake ports are located in a small area on one side of the handpiece and so may be obscured whilst in use. A greater number of air intake ports could have been designed into the handle moulding to reduce the chances of obstruction.
6. All heater related cables are pinched between the neoprene air director and the side of the case. No cut-out is provided for them.
7. The handpiece cable strain relief is held in place with a cable tie rather than being a moulded type. Not a biggy but still crap.

For the money it is still not a bad performer but it is also no work of engineering art and has some pretty poor design faults that could have been easily sorted at little or no cost. It's rather like a cheap hair dryer.... bloody awful quality but still dries yer hair  :D

 Caveat Emptor.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 10:17:49 pm by Aurora »
 

Offline logictom

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 336
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2011, 10:45:46 am »
The unit is certainly pretty good value for money but I think, to be fair to potential buyers, I should state the following....

You make some very valid points and I will be cracking mine open when I receive it to check out the quality.
I think it's important to remember that, for me at least, locally the cheapest hot air station I can buy is ~£150 and it's like anything that's cheap and Chinese, you know you get what you pay for but at that price it's better than nothing and it's almost throw away price for a tool.
I'll be looking for any improvements/hacks to improve on the points you raised :)
 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8318
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #40 on: May 13, 2011, 11:54:46 am »
Hi Logictom,

All of the points that I have raised are resolvable I am pleased to say. I see it as a bit like when you used to buy a LADA car....there was a box of bits in the boot that the user was expected to fit in order to keep costs down....like seat belts  ;) China produces cheap products at great prices but some need a little fettling (I love that word ;D) to make them as good as they could have been if more time/money were spent on them during manufacture.

In this case, those with a mind to improve this neat little hot air station can do so cheaply and easily. I will look at modifying / improving the build of my unit shortly.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 12:24:19 pm by Aurora »
 

Offline gobblegobble

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 58
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #41 on: May 13, 2011, 11:46:27 pm »
You guys strike me as rather odd folk, mind you. But while simultaneously stressing multimeter safety throughout the board to an industrial electrician levels, you praise a widget which most probably wouldn't pass even the basic electrical safety requirements for a consumer grade device. :P
 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8318
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2011, 10:30:04 am »
gobblegobble,

I believe my messages have indicated obvious deficiencies in the design. It will be for potential purchasers to decide whether they can accept these deficiencies and carry out remedial work.

I agree that the EEVBlog is very safety aware when it comes to multimeters but they are a slightly different animal. Multimeters get connected to all manner of current and voltage sources that cannot be predicted by a reviewer for a particular purchaser. The CAT rating comes into play when high energy sources are likely to be tested. Deficiencies in a multimeters safety when connected to a high energy source can be catastrophic for the user.

Now the Atten hot air rework station is a slightly different beast. It is designed to work from the mains supply but DOES include adequate fusing and a safety earth. The supply is known and the safety IS in place. What is poor is the design of the handpiece and yes this could lead to premature failure of the heater element but it is unlikely to cause a catastrophic failure for the user.

I have highlighted areas of concern and trust that readers will take on board the implications of some of the cost cutting measures that have been employed in the design. I would not state that the Atten product is actually a dangerous appliance and I have seen worse designs in hair dryers purchased from UK high street retail shops !

I hope this makes my position clear but every one is absolutely entitled to their opinion on the unit and it's deficiencies and I respect that. I consider the Atten a cheap (almost disposable) portable hot air rework station that will need some fettling to satisfy my expectations for a decent design that I can rely upon in a hobbyist environment.

I don't think Dave is wrong to recommend such a product on a VFM basis but I do think he was quite kind to the design within the handpiece  ;)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2011, 10:34:22 am by Aurora »
 

Offline robrenz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3035
  • Country: us
  • Real Machinist, Wannabe EE
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2011, 06:38:59 pm »
I finally recieved my US$49.99 unit from China (ebay) 26 days after ordering. That is right in the middle of the quoted delivery date range for the US$10.00 shipping.  This is the 220V model but I have 220 in my shop.

The fan was not butchered like Daves, the lugs were nicely removed. pics below.

One thing I noticed that needed major help was the air slots that feed the center of the fan. They were on the verge of nonexistent.
I know the backside has nonfunctional slots that are there for asthetics only. The real air slots were almost completely closed because poor injection mold closeoff. I ground the slot area on the inside of the case and cleaned out the slots as shown on the pics.  I know that since the temperature is controled it should not cause a problem but I think the max airflow would have been severely compromised.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2011, 06:42:45 pm by robrenz »
 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8318
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2011, 07:20:26 pm »
Hi Robrenz,

Thanks for the interesting information.

I am still in two minds with regards to the air intakes on the handpiece. I have an industrial grade electric 'blow-lamp' (read really hot and powerful hot air gun) and that uses an aperture control to change the airflow through the air intake to the fan. Less air = hotter output. Now I know the Atten uses electronic temperature control of the heating element but I am uncertain whether the air intake slots are deliberatley small to restrict the available air flow range and hence effect the temperature range that the heater can produce. The fan has a speed control that takes it down to almost idling so I may be concerned over nothing. Before I carve out the air intakes I would be interested to hear whether your unit still behaves itself with regard to the available temperature range. 
 

Offline robrenz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3035
  • Country: us
  • Real Machinist, Wannabe EE
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2011, 08:48:18 pm »
Hi Aurora,

The units temperature calibration did not change after the slots.
Before when set at 125C it read 150C on my fluke k thermocouple. After opening the slots it read the same. I have not tried adjusting the calibration pot to get the temperature to match yet. Also from my tool and die experience I could see that the mold in that section was not closing off like is should allowing large plastic flash to form where there should be none. The flash is what closed off the slots. They intended the slots to have more air flow than what was molded.  The case originaly had ribs on the inside that ran in between the slots to strengthen the slotted section. It was easier to grind the ribs off to remove all the offending plastic and I felt the remaining plastic was plenty strong.

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8318
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2011, 09:18:00 pm »
Hi Robrenz,

Thank you for the excellent clarification. I will open up the slots in my handpiece in the same manner as yours.

I appreciate you taking the time to explain about the moulding issue.

Cheers  :)
 

Offline robrenz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3035
  • Country: us
  • Real Machinist, Wannabe EE
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #47 on: May 20, 2011, 03:11:45 pm »
I tried calibrating the temperature on the unit.  I used a fluke k thermocouple with its bead .2" inside the nozzles and centered. I had it fixtured so there was no position variation during testing. I figured that inside would give the most consistent results by minimizing variations from the coanda effect. I calibrated the unit with the temp at 275C (mid range)and an airflow setting of 4 with the medium nozzle.  CCW on the cal pot increases the temp.  It takes quite a while (up to 2 minutes) for everything to stabilize after a change of temp or airflow.  You can see the temp control over and undershoot a few times before it settles.

The results were interesting :o I think it shows if you need a fairly precise temperature you better set it with the airflow and nozzle you intend to use with a separate temperature measuring device.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2011, 03:29:01 pm by robrenz »
 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8318
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #48 on: May 20, 2011, 05:24:42 pm »
So much for this microprocessor managed unit being more accurate than my analogue temperature control loop WEP 852D+  :-[

If the temperature IS actually controlled by the microprocessor there appears to be something very wrong with it's behaviour. I don't expect precision but some of those readings appear way outside acceptable tolerances. The only time I see evidence of any microprocessor monitoring of temperature on the 858D+ is when the unit is placed in to standby and you can see the measured temperature dropping as it cools. In RUN mode the little decimal point just flickers much like on my analogue loop 852D+ and only SET, not ACTUAL, temperature is displayed.n I am now wondering if this cheap little box is in fact an analogue unit with a digital thermometer function in the display electronics..... smoke and mirrors by the manufacturer. To be sure I wouldneed to delve inside my unit but no time for that at the moment.

I shall have to do some tests on my 852D+ to see how that units old fashioned analogue temperature controller performs with regard tp accuracy at differnet flow rates etc.
 

Offline gobblegobble

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 58
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #49 on: May 23, 2011, 01:40:04 am »
Since the original post is quite lenghty and thorough, I hope you don't mind me fragment quoting. :)

I agree that the EEVBlog is very safety aware when it comes to multimeters but they are a slightly different animal. Multimeters get connected to all manner of current and voltage sources that cannot be predicted by a reviewer for a particular purchaser. The CAT rating comes into play when high energy sources are likely to be tested.
It is designed to work from the mains supply but DOES include adequate fusing and a safety earth.
I have seen worse designs in hair dryers purchased from UK high street retail shops !
The thing is, those hair dryers shouldn't probably be on the market and hinting the local safety authority could well lead to their removal.

Mains connected equipment should should essentially be "CAT II" rated for around 250 volts in the sense that it should not pose a shock hazard to the user and the insulation levels shown on that thing sure don't lend to that nor should it pose a fire hazard which it as well may as well. The actual requirements for a product required to pass are indeed quite a bit more than just a "fuse and some grounding". ;)


I hope this makes my position clear but every one is absolutely entitled to their opinion on the unit and it's deficiencies and I respect that.
I agree, and while I stand by my original opinion of the product being a hazard to the user, everyone can feel free to try their luck on importing stuff that possibly wouldn't pass local regulations for electrical appliance safety if they so wish. :)

 

Offline LEECH666

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 392
  • Country: de
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2011, 12:27:20 pm »
I bought this station too but now I am a bit worried about the safety meassures. Can anyone think of an elegant way to retrofit a path to earth? I suppose you'll need some pretty heat resistand wire for for that.

Cheers from Germany,
Florian
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #51 on: June 04, 2011, 05:58:05 pm »
This is a great thread with great questions and input, you folks have helped make this Atten station a better item, and at least warned newbies about what perils they may face.  

Any item manufactured and shipped from overseas that bypass safety inspection in your country or are purchased second hand without a traceable pedigree, should be treated with caution and as a hazard until proven otherwise.

Besides the electronics, there is also the risk that the building materials are coated with trace toxic substances we would not tolerate in the west, such as lead, so its caveat emptor.  You may want to wipe down items throughly before use.

Still, I buy a lot of iffy Chinese electronic products from eBay, and do remediation myself.  If you quantify the cost of DIY for products available, its almost 100% cheaper to buy the iffy Chinese product and modify it for additional functions or safety.  Be mindful that mains powered items pose more hazards than one that is battery powered, so you really have to be on your game.

I presume eevblog readers are versed in the EE craft, and can do what is needed to make these items from scratch if needed, but modding it is far easier.

Just know too that many DIY items that are mains powered, such as the popular bench power supply, can be made fairly iffy by a hobbyist in a country with established product safety laws.  It may or may not pass CE regulations, but most of these items are not meant to be resold so the builder/user/maker is responsible for his own safety.  I would put products purchased overseas with more lax safety regulations in the same category.



You guys strike me as rather odd folk, mind you. But while simultaneously stressing multimeter safety throughout the board to an industrial electrician levels, you praise a widget which most probably wouldn't pass even the basic electrical safety requirements for a consumer grade device. :P
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 06:01:23 pm by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8941
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #52 on: June 05, 2011, 07:59:08 am »
I bought this station too but now I am a bit worried about the safety meassures. Can anyone think of an elegant way to retrofit a path to earth? I suppose you'll need some pretty heat resistand wire for for that.
Cheers from Germany,
Florian
google more on earth wiring and what its purpose. its just as simple as connecting wires to device casing. most wires are heat resistant, you really not to worry about that, esp earth wiring does not require that.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline LEECH666

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 392
  • Country: de
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #53 on: June 05, 2011, 09:40:40 pm »
As I understand from Daves video, the heater is inside the handle. And people here said the heater is mains powered. I don't know of any standard wires that could withstand 450°C. So if i was to attach a standard of the shelf PE-Wire (Green/Yellow, most likely PVC) the insulation would melt. Or am I missing something here?

The casing of the station itself is connected to PE, or so I read (didn't test it myself). I am worried about the mains voltage in the metal tube in the handle.

Cheers,
Florian
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 09:55:29 pm by LEECH666 »
 

Offline Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8941
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #54 on: June 05, 2011, 09:55:20 pm »
dont connect it to the heater then. connect it to the tube (outer most part) closest to the plastic handle. if you worry about the melting insulation, replace it with similar that is used in the heater wiring, that white fabric braid i think, dont know where to get it.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 09:58:14 pm by Mechatrommer »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #55 on: June 06, 2011, 12:01:07 pm »
Has anyone disassembled the heater unit?  Can the part be replaced or substituted with any other heater?

One food for thought is the current old style bulky Chinese Hakko clones current sold for $100 are fairly prolific and the heaters are easier to obtain.  It costs about $20 to replace and is interchangeable with other clones. 

If the Atten heater dies, then even if its $60, you lose the whole unit.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2011, 02:48:42 am by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline sacherjj

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 993
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #56 on: June 06, 2011, 01:18:22 pm »
Has anyone disassembled the heater unit?  Can the part be replaced or substituted with any other heater?

One food for thought is the current old style bulky Chinese Hakko clones current sold for $100 are fairly prolific and the heaters are easier to obtain.  It costs about $20 to replace and is interchangeable with other clones. 

If the Atten heater dies, then even if its $60, you loose the whole unit.


I know there are 110V Atten heaters on ebay, probably for people doing a 220v to 110v conversion.  If I remember correctly, they were around the $20 mark.
 

Offline willd1971

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 48
  • Country: gb
    • Labtronix
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #57 on: June 06, 2011, 03:30:45 pm »
Just to add to the mix.  I'm expecting a delivery to the UK of 898BD+ rework stations direct from Yihua later this month.  They have the same impeller function in the hot air handle and they have a soldering iron with branded Hakko heating element.  Since it's my first dealing with Yihua I think I'll be taking a very close look inside and outside the unit to make sure they live up to the requirements of the CE label stuck on the back before I offer any for sale...  Doubly interesting since the 898bd+ is a considerably more expensive unit than the 852 and 858 units discussed in this thread.

Anyone else have experience of 898bd / 899bd or variants of?

William
http://www.labtronix.co.uk
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #58 on: June 06, 2011, 03:47:43 pm »
Thanks sacherjj.  I didn't see them when I searched before but I used terms "858 element" and found some; between $10-25.  There are different types for the same model number, but I can figure out which one mine will be once I disassemble the heater assembly.



You guys are great, thanks a ton.

Has anyone disassembled the heater unit?  Can the part be replaced or substituted with any other heater?

One food for thought is the current old style bulky Chinese Hakko clones current sold for $100 are fairly prolific and the heaters are easier to obtain.  It costs about $20 to replace and is interchangeable with other clones. 

If the Atten heater dies, then even if its $60, you loose the whole unit.


I know there are 110V Atten heaters on ebay, probably for people doing a 220v to 110v conversion.  If I remember correctly, they were around the $20 mark.
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline nukie

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 767
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #59 on: June 07, 2011, 01:49:34 am »
Hello all,

I have a 858A, basically same as yours but without the digital read out. I have been using it for more than 2 years now, still on the original 220v heater(overdriven quite a bit australia being 240v). The internals are very well built, soldering is also quite clean, it wasn't popular back then there was only one or two brands, now there are a mountain. The popular type was handle with airtube and pump. Like I said my unit has a good build, I guess they make so many of them the workmanship becomes sloppy, this is a problem in China. Starts out good and nice then the workmanship drops, should I say work'kid'ship?!

If you go take a walk in the megamall for mobilephone market in Shen Zhen, China you will see every booth where they do repairs, there will be at least one 858 or 8xx hotair rework station. Same case with other places around Asian countries. That my friend, it is trial and tested. It's quite tough and failure point being the blower motor and heater.

If you don't know which heater you should get then you can get the whole handle piece. Most people who sells these units on ebay will know where to get spare parts, even if they don't list it. Spare parts are plenty, because Chinese people will often repair rather than chuck old one, get a new one.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 01:51:48 am by nukie »
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #60 on: June 07, 2011, 10:53:22 am »
Thanks nukie, great advice and experience.  There is no longevity data on eevblog on this unit, so yours is the first, and it reads very well.  I ordered one too and will use my hot airgun for other things.

Hello all,

I have a 858A, basically same as yours but without the digital read out. I have been using it for more than 2 years now, still on the original 220v heater(overdriven quite a bit australia being 240v). The internals are very well built, soldering is also quite clean, it wasn't popular back then there was only one or two brands, now there are a mountain. The popular type was handle with airtube and pump. Like I said my unit has a good build, I guess they make so many of them the workmanship becomes sloppy, this is a problem in China. Starts out good and nice then the workmanship drops, should I say work'kid'ship?!

If you go take a walk in the megamall for mobilephone market in Shen Zhen, China you will see every booth where they do repairs, there will be at least one 858 or 8xx hotair rework station. Same case with other places around Asian countries. That my friend, it is trial and tested. It's quite tough and failure point being the blower motor and heater.

If you don't know which heater you should get then you can get the whole handle piece. Most people who sells these units on ebay will know where to get spare parts, even if they don't list it. Spare parts are plenty, because Chinese people will often repair rather than chuck old one, get a new one.
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Didder

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #61 on: June 13, 2011, 11:45:31 pm »
The unit is certainly pretty good value for money but I think, to be fair to potential buyers, I should state the following....

Upon dismantling the handpiece I was singularly unimpressed with the construction. I know it's cheap but there is no excuse for the deficiencies detailed below

1. The fan is a bastardised COTS product butchered to fit the case and in Dave's unit butchered is the operative word.
2. The fan does not rest in moulded supports within the handpiece, it just floats in the rear void directly on top of the small PCB.
3. The fan has a metalised label that is in close proximity to the above mentioned small PCB solder side...not a great idea ! Insulation should have been placed over the PCB.
4. On my unit the neoprene fan output air director was poorly installed semi obscuring the fans exit port and not permitting correct seating of the neoprene air director within it's 'mounts'.
5. The fan air intake ports are located in a small area on one side of the handpiece and so may be obscured whilst in use. A greater number of air intake ports could have been designed into the handle moulding to reduce the chances of obstruction.
6. All heater related cables are pinched between the neoprene air director and the side of the case. No cut-out is provided for them.
7. The handpiece cable strain relief is held in place with a cable tie rather than being a moulded type. Not a biggy but still crap.

For the money it is still not a bad performer but it is also no work of engineering art and has some pretty poor design faults that could have been easily sorted at little or no cost. It's rather like a cheap hair dryer.... bloody awful quality but still dries yer hair  :D

 Caveat Emptor.

Hello I am new to this site. I got the atten 858d+ of ebay and all the things that you have said are wrong with ours, mine is the same. How would I go about fixing these problems so it wont be as dangerous thanks
 

Offline joegtp

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 30
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #62 on: June 26, 2011, 11:57:15 pm »
Just ordered one from Amazon for $40 not sure if it's 110 or 220 or if it new.  But, I couldn't pass it up for $40 and free shipping.  With Prime, I should be getting it Wednesday  ;D

http://www.amazon.com/ATTEN-AT858D-Soldering-Station-Suitable/dp/B0055B6NGE/
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #63 on: June 27, 2011, 11:03:05 am »
amazing!  That's the best price ever.  Good for you, I just got mine for $23 more.

Just ordered one from Amazon for $40 not sure if it's 110 or 220 or if it new.  But, I couldn't pass it up for $40 and free shipping.  With Prime, I should be getting it Wednesday  ;D

http://www.amazon.com/ATTEN-AT858D-Soldering-Station-Suitable/dp/B0055B6NGE/
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline LEECH666

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 392
  • Country: de
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #64 on: June 27, 2011, 11:17:54 am »
VERY ON TOPIC! PLEASE READ!

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3461.0

In case you didn't see this. I am very concerned. :(

Florian
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #65 on: June 27, 2011, 11:35:53 am »
Yes, this is a concern but treat the 858D like an electronics kit and you will need to mod it to get it working safely.  Follow that thread, as I will post more stuff I find on my unit which was made for 120V.

Since this unit is sold through a USA based dealer, there is product liability law that bind them to the buyer, so the seller will have to be on his game.


VERY ON TOPIC! PLEASE READ!

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3461.0

In case you didn't see this. I am very concerned. :(

Florian
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Kozmyk

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 122
  • Country: wales
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #66 on: August 13, 2011, 01:03:03 pm »
I just got my Atten 858D+ this morning.
The mains lead supplied has a Chinese/Australian type plug and it came with a "Travel Adaptor" to fit UK sockets.
This adaptor is not safe Do Not Use!! the Earth pin does not make contact inside the adaptor.

The case was not grounded.
I added an Earth wire from the transformer base to the PCB ground.

The heater body Was grounded however, unlike some that people have received.
Apart from a small crack in the plastic case surround (superglue/kicker to the rescue) everything else seems to be in order.

It works! Hurray!
Not a perfect buy but at £39.89 GBP delivered I'm prepared to overlook it's failings.

 

Offline LEECH666

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 392
  • Country: de
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #67 on: October 07, 2011, 01:45:04 pm »
I threw away the entire power cord (euro plug) and adaptor and used a good cord instead. They felt so cheap that I decided to not trust them at all.

 

Offline samgab

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 423
  • Country: nz
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2011, 10:01:27 pm »
In the video, Dave mentioned that this model isn't on Atten's website.
It's there (or is now at least) but it's not that easy to find, it's on a second page of rework stations.
Here's the link: http://bit.ly/tGkzUH
 

Offline george graves

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1259
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #69 on: December 08, 2011, 01:11:18 am »
I received a 220v version by mistake.  Whoops.   I'd like to sell it if anyone is interested.  I'm in the Seattle, WA area - willing to ship.

Offline don.r

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 598
  • Country: ca
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #70 on: December 08, 2011, 02:05:38 am »
In the video, Dave mentioned that this model isn't on Atten's website.
It's there (or is now at least) but it's not that easy to find, it's on a second page of rework stations.
Here's the link: http://bit.ly/tGkzUH
Looks like the heating element will be made available as a separate part as they have instructions on that page for replacing it. That is most likely the first part to fail.
I received a 220v version by mistake.  Whoops.   I'd like to sell it if anyone is interested.  I'm in the Seattle, WA area - willing to ship.
Too bad I just bought one a couple of months ago as I have 220 at the bench and live just across the border from you. Oh well, good luck with the sale.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 02:07:21 am by don.r »
Shippers: for the love of Pete and all that is holy, STOP USING UPS INTERNATIONAL!
 

Offline LEECH666

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 392
  • Country: de
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #71 on: January 25, 2012, 12:38:44 pm »
My Atten 858D just died. After 7 Months of very very sparse on and off usage. Display doesnt light up anymore.
And the fan in the handle isn't blowing anymore. Might just be a blown fuse ... but no idea what caused this ...

:(

//EDIT

Checked the Fuse, it's still intact.

//EDIT 2

What the F... is going on. Plugged it back in and now it works again. Maybe the IEC connector wasn't plugged in all the way ... *confused*

//EDIT 3

There is a spare fuse in the fuse compartment of the IEC connector. Nice litte touch imo.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 01:07:42 pm by LEECH666 »
 

Offline metalphreak

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 815
  • Country: au
  • http://d.av.id.au
    • D.av.id.AU
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #72 on: January 25, 2012, 04:33:04 pm »
My Kada unit came with a spare heating element for both the hot air and the soldering iron. Haven't had to use either since I've had it (not that it gets daily use or anything).

I modified mine to have an IEC socket (with switch) on the back because the transformer in it makes a humming noise even when the unit is switched off.

I tend to take apart everything I buy from China to see all is well. So far I haven't been disappointed by anything seriously dangerous.

Offline wwwyzzerdd

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #73 on: March 23, 2012, 02:43:15 am »
hi im new here, i bought an atten 858d+, but i made the mistake of getting the 220 version, and it is too late for me to return it. I will do whatever it takes to get this thing to work on 110, if i can simply replace the transformer, then the only thing i would need is the specs of the transformer included in the 110 version, right?

when i started looking for one to buy, all i could find were 220v units, and i thought it would be simple enough to just use a US 220v outlet for a dryer or a upstep converter

ill appreciate any help i can get
 

Offline don.r

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 598
  • Country: ca
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #74 on: March 23, 2012, 03:28:47 pm »
You will need to replace the heating element as well as it draws from the AC source directly. Its a 400W unit so you need a good-sized step up. Most of that is in the heater I would suspect. Its your choice whether to go step up or replace parts.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 03:30:23 pm by don.r »
Shippers: for the love of Pete and all that is holy, STOP USING UPS INTERNATIONAL!
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #75 on: March 23, 2012, 04:33:08 pm »
You will need to replace the heating element as well as it draws from the AC source directly. Its a 400W unit so you need a good-sized step up. Most of that is in the heater I would suspect. Its your choice whether to go step up or replace parts.

No . 700W .

hi im new here, i bought an atten 858d+, but i made the mistake of getting the 220 version, and it is too late for me to return it. I will do whatever it takes to get this thing to work on 110, if i can simply replace the transformer, then the only thing i would need is the specs of the transformer included in the 110 version, right?

when i started looking for one to buy, all i could find were 220v units, and i thought it would be simple enough to just use a US 220v outlet for a dryer or a upstep converter

ill appreciate any help i can get
A step up to 220V at 700W OR you TRY to find a replacement transformer and a 110V heating element .
Best is you getting a 700W step up
 

Offline don.r

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 598
  • Country: ca
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #76 on: March 23, 2012, 06:37:15 pm »
You will need to replace the heating element as well as it draws from the AC source directly. Its a 400W unit so you need a good-sized step up. Most of that is in the heater I would suspect. Its your choice whether to go step up or replace parts.

No . 700W .


I have seen them advertised as 400W. My killawatt says 250W max at full speed and 450C so I think 400W would be a safe bet.
Shippers: for the love of Pete and all that is holy, STOP USING UPS INTERNATIONAL!
 

Offline george graves

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1259
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #77 on: March 23, 2012, 06:43:32 pm »
Might be easier to run 220 if you own your home.

Offline wwwyzzerdd

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #78 on: March 24, 2012, 04:52:53 am »
ah, I see. I didn't know that I would have to replace the element too. I suppose I should look for a step up converter, hopefully I can find one that can supply enough power, for a decent price

or install a 220v outlet in my shop. That's probably what I'll end up doing, appreciate the help guys
 

Offline Spawn

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 510
  • Country: nl
  • ³²µ º'ºººº³²
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #79 on: March 31, 2012, 03:49:50 am »
lol I was bored and reading some old topics and this one came up to my attention, I seen Dave’s video but I didn’t know there was a huge safety issues with these Atten’s

I got the AT8586 for a while now, it’s same housing only it has extra soldering iron on it, I just got it with the iron because price difference was almost nothing:


After reading this thread I got suspicious and tear apart my unit and as suspected the earth wire doesn’t even touch the housing and the transformer, it directly goes to the PCB, from there the hot air handheld and the soldering iron got their earth connection, both good attached.
You can see on this picture how it’s wired:


They used shrink tubes on the back at power connector, but they never heated so tubes where dangling around the wire  ::)

I took some wire and connected the earth to the transformer and the housing, because I put the earth wire to the bottom of the housing I was not sure if the other pieces get connected too, so before I start grinding on the housing parts I just put it together and did some measurements and amazingly every part of the housing has good earth connection:


Anyways, thanks to everyone who brought this to our attention  :)

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #80 on: March 31, 2012, 12:18:13 pm »
Glad you found the issue in your unit.  The 3 additional issues reported besides poor grounding were:

220V MAINS voltage wired to ground

In my WEP branded 110V unit:
110V system NEUTRAL WIRE is switched, not the hot
Solder shorting the sensor wires of the heating element

Since the issues are slightly different for each build of the units, it behooves owners to tear down their units, because some other problem might occur that hasn't been reported.  I would check everything as if you built the unit as a kit, because even parts soldering to the PCB can be suspect.
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline ivan747

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2010
  • Country: do
Re: Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #81 on: March 31, 2012, 12:23:18 pm »
I received a 220v version by mistake.  Whoops.   I'd like to sell it if anyone is interested.  I'm in the Seattle, WA area - willing to ship.

Don't you have a 220V outlet with two hot lines? If not, you can also use a transformer. Get one that can be configured for both 110V and 220V (they have two separate 110V taps) and you get a pretty good dual voltage isolation transformer.
Nothing like the smell of rosin core solder in the morning.
"Could you not use some of that crowdfunded $1.5 million to hire a graphic designer who understands perspective?" -Delta
"A soldering station I bought once had a sticker on it that said, I shit you not, 'QENUINE'." -c4757p
 

Offline Spawn

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 510
  • Country: nl
  • ³²µ º'ºººº³²
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #82 on: March 31, 2012, 03:38:25 pm »
Glad you found the issue in your unit.  The 3 additional issues reported besides poor grounding were:

...
 I would check everything as if you built the unit as a kit, because even parts soldering to the PCB can be suspect.

Thanks for the heads up Saturation, before I put the unit together I checked every possible issues known here and the PCB indeed, those look good, only issue was the housing without earth wire. We don't wire the neutral and hot in certain order so switching one of those wouldn't matter, in my opinion you guys have much better system like that.

Offline Mint.

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 523
  • Country: au
  • Account is inactive now. Thanks everybody!
    • Personal Blog, Mint Electronics.
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #83 on: April 23, 2012, 09:58:41 am »
Just got mine today! Came with chinese instructions :D
Switched it on, worked fine, then decided to test the max specs (450 Degrees and Max on fan) the thing started to smoke a bit, I accidentally breathed in a fair bit and I don't think it did any good to me I had to run out the door because my eyes got so teary :'( and now I have a headache, but I'm sure everything will be just fine by tomorrow. It's all good now, doesn't give out smoke like it did the first time I operated it 8). I checked the earth ground connection on my unit and everything was fine, and honestly I was amazed by the quality of something so cheap, the PCB from the top looked very neat and organised and I did not see anything dodgy with it. I am very impressed with the tool. However on my unit the sleep mode is very dodgy, it doesn't want to work most of the time. Anybody else had this issue? ::)
Personal Blog (Not Active Anymore), Mint Electronics:
http://mintelectronics.wordpress.com/
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #84 on: April 24, 2012, 10:34:56 am »
The sleep mode is just a magnetic sensitive switch, make sure it engages.  Given your unit smoked it would be prudent to tear it down, check the wiring connectors, the soldering.  I think you are the first to report both issues.

Just got mine today! Came with chinese instructions :D
Switched it on, worked fine, then decided to test the max specs (450 Degrees and Max on fan) the thing started to smoke a bit, I accidentally breathed in a fair bit and I don't think it did any good to me I had to run out the door because my eyes got so teary :'( and now I have a headache, but I'm sure everything will be just fine by tomorrow. It's all good now, doesn't give out smoke like it did the first time I operated it 8). I checked the earth ground connection on my unit and everything was fine, and honestly I was amazed by the quality of something so cheap, the PCB from the top looked very neat and organised and I did not see anything dodgy with it. I am very impressed with the tool. However on my unit the sleep mode is very dodgy, it doesn't want to work most of the time. Anybody else had this issue? ::)
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline LEECH666

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 392
  • Country: de
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #85 on: April 24, 2012, 10:51:16 am »
I think all soldering stations undergo a sort of "burn in" effect when new. It's probably harmless (insulation hardening, silcon tubings). My 858D+ smoked a little too at first, but that went away quickly. And I don't even use it that often.

Florian
 

Offline Mint.

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 523
  • Country: au
  • Account is inactive now. Thanks everybody!
    • Personal Blog, Mint Electronics.
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #86 on: April 24, 2012, 11:05:01 am »
The sleep mode is just a magnetic sensitive switch, make sure it engages.  Given your unit smoked it would be prudent to tear it down, check the wiring connectors, the soldering.  I think you are the first to report both issues.

Just got mine today! Came with chinese instructions :D
Switched it on, worked fine, then decided to test the max specs (450 Degrees and Max on fan) the thing started to smoke a bit, I accidentally breathed in a fair bit and I don't think it did any good to me I had to run out the door because my eyes got so teary :'( and now I have a headache, but I'm sure everything will be just fine by tomorrow. It's all good now, doesn't give out smoke like it did the first time I operated it 8). I checked the earth ground connection on my unit and everything was fine, and honestly I was amazed by the quality of something so cheap, the PCB from the top looked very neat and organised and I did not see anything dodgy with it. I am very impressed with the tool. However on my unit the sleep mode is very dodgy, it doesn't want to work most of the time. Anybody else had this issue? ::)

Ignore the second part about the sleep mode, it works. I was just a bit confused on how it actually should work because I can't read it chinese :))
As far as the smoking goes... I did a teardown and I did not find anything wrong with the unit.
Personal Blog (Not Active Anymore), Mint Electronics:
http://mintelectronics.wordpress.com/
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #87 on: April 24, 2012, 12:46:21 pm »
Sounds like 2 of you now report smoke issues.  But yes, often the benign thing is debris inside the heating tube, or thin layers of oils that burn away when the unit is first used, its nothing to be concerned about but you'd see it first by tearing it down before turning it on, because if it was something else or worse, miswired, more than smoke could result.

I think all soldering stations undergo a sort of "burn in" effect when new. It's probably harmless (insulation hardening, silcon tubings). My 858D+ smoked a little too at first, but that went away quickly. And I don't even use it that often.

Florian
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Mikey

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 77
  • Country: dk
  • Just hit 3rd!
    • captain-slow.dk
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #88 on: November 21, 2012, 07:05:14 pm »
Old topic, but just wanted to say thanks for this video. Just bought one of these, and man I am happy about it. :) Just got my SMD adventures taken to a new level! :-+
captain-slow.dk | 3D printing | CNC machining | Mechanical designs | Simple electronics
 

Offline Guppzor

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 26
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #89 on: February 04, 2013, 11:03:02 am »
Another post to revive the thread from the dead. I received my 858D+ today (purchased from eBay of course) and in true EEVBlog style had to tear it down. The main reason was to check to see if there were any faults with the wiring as another member found with their unit. All appeared fine inside as per Dave's vid. I took the 'wand' apart to have a look and the fan/blower is 100% intact with no signs of being attacked as per the vid.

As for the performance, Dave is right. Although the fan volume in the vid seems loud, it is pretty darn quiet even at full speed. The temperature does tend to overshoot initially, but it does settle in pretty darn quick.

All in all, for under $80 it is going to be a very handy and inexpensive tool to have on my bench :-D
 

Offline Rick

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 309
  • Country: tr
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #90 on: February 04, 2013, 12:32:21 pm »
Are the nozzles of this unit in standard dimensions? So that any other nozzle can be mounted on it...
http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_odkw=Atten+nozzles&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313&_nkw=qfp+nozzles&_sacat=0
Or is it specific to Atten?
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #91 on: February 08, 2013, 09:40:45 am »
Yes, about that. I have one myself though you can't fit a Yihua 858D nozzles to it but a big aliexpress store assured me the 850's nozzles will fit because the 850's use a clamp nozzle instead of a latch-on sadly you can't hotswap the nozzles, the yihua will do it if you would like to change the whole handle

Had a problem with my unit (Not really a atten but a modified one with different firmware) (A single one!) : When i first got it it would just start (Yes it does, it spins up the fan to test whether it's dead or not) and then stop.
And guess what? The magnetic reed switch is dead. It's a normally closed type (when there isn't a magnet) and it's broken. Luckily the firmware was designed to start the heater and fan when the switch is open not closed, would have been trouble if it was designed the other way round (i.e a normally open(if there is) switch with firmware designed to start when it's closed will invite trouble, why? A normally open switch will mostly likely fail shorted and on a normally closed switch it will fail closed)

So the donor was my previous Yihua 858D's body and transplanted it. Kinda like it's been given another life after it's owner has been dead 10-11 months

But the weirdest thing is that no "burn-in" occured on heating up (The mica paper in this case) neither did my Yihua 858D a year back
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 10:41:27 am by T4P »
 

Offline Orpheus

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 120
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #92 on: February 20, 2013, 03:18:06 pm »
I'm about to pull the trigger on a hobbyist hot air station, but with so many models out there, it's hard to decide. I read the entire thread, but didn't get a good sense of the benefits of the diaphragm-pump models over the handle-fan models, though I understand that the former is used in "professional units". I'd love to hear from those with experience.
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #93 on: February 21, 2013, 12:17:44 pm »
Frankly i used a real FR-203B in school, kind of like it but too much pressure.
A 852D from china on the other hand ... too much vibration. Nasty
Just to keep in mind the 858D has not much vibration or whatsoever just a slight whirring of the fan
 

Offline uprightsquire

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 45
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #94 on: February 21, 2013, 09:58:27 pm »
Planning my first smt board so picked up one from an australian seller on ebay, only 2 days delivery by regular post, AU$62. Nuts.

Nozzle tied to earth, case not. English manual. The type of air pump is listed as 'Gentle wind of brushless fan'  :o
 

Offline Orpheus

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 120
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #95 on: February 22, 2013, 05:20:28 am »
Thanks T4P.  That was actually a specific puzzler for me. I couldn't imagine how a diaphragm pump *wouldn't* produce a more pulsing airflow than a fan, or how that could fail to be a minor annoyance. I wasn't thinking of vibration but rather the modest (but terribly annoying) risk of dislodging a part with the higher peak pressure of a pulsing source. I can easily imagine mitigating design elements (e.g. the elastic silicone hose) but mitigation isn't preferable to lacking the problem in the first place.

Also, the heating element is in the handpiece, either way, and I'd have imagined (until this thread) that it would be easier and cheaper for the Chinese factories to get the wiring/grounding right with suitable diameter conductors in a plain wire bundle cable vs some silicone tube hybrid construction. Actually how DO diaphragm pump units supply the heater and ground the hand-piece? A second cable? I can't imagine the heater is in the base unit-- a hot silicone cable would be terrible to work around.

*sigh* my 90s era home-brew unit is looking better all the time.
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #96 on: February 22, 2013, 04:06:09 pm »
Planning my first smt board so picked up one from an australian seller on ebay, only 2 days delivery by regular post, AU$62. Nuts.

Nozzle tied to earth, case not. English manual. The type of air pump is listed as 'Gentle wind of brushless fan'  :o
Google translate ala 2009  :P

Also, the heating element is in the handpiece, either way, and I'd have imagined (until this thread) that it would be easier and cheaper for the Chinese factories to get the wiring/grounding right with suitable diameter conductors in a plain wire bundle cable vs some silicone tube hybrid construction. Actually how DO diaphragm pump units supply the heater and ground the hand-piece? A second cable? I can't imagine the heater is in the base unit-- a hot silicone cable would be terrible to work around.
Think it's got to do with the wire free-hanging in the hose or really embossed into the hose itself. Could be, the 850 clones is not cheap (i.e 858D costs 15US$ and a 850b 50-60$) even in china.
If you look at the clones a bit closely you can see a bit of a bulge
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 04:11:15 pm by T4P »
 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8318
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #97 on: February 22, 2013, 05:36:26 pm »
Professional hot air stations use a diaphragm pump or in some cases such as PACE hot air guns, a high speed turbine compressor is used. The power and any control cables run inside the air hose to the handpiece. All this is very common in the industry.

The design of the 'whisper' quiet hot air guns with a fan in the handle was quite novel. I can't help thinking the original idea probably came from a hair dryer ! It works in very much the same way and hair dryers have been designed like this for decades. I own several hot air stations including one of the Atten 858D units.

IMHO both do the job required of them but I personally prefer the diaphragm design. For your information, the twin diaphragm pump should be neither noisy nor vibrate if set up correctly. Mine produce a quiet thrumming noise and do not bibrate to any degree due to good rubber motor mounts. The air flow of the diaphragm pump is easily controllable and an inbuilt air reservoir removes the air pulsing effect that you were concerned about.

The 858D is a disaster in terms of production quality but this is easily rectified if you are willing to go through it and fix all the problems i.e poor earthing, incorrect fusing, partially blocked air intakes on handle, poorly mounted fan etc. No such problems were experienced on any of my other hot air stations but then they cost more than the 858D.

I use the 858D only for light duty portable work. The daily workshop tasks are carried out using a WEP 852D+, Aoyue 850, Duratool ZD-939 and the superb PACE TF200 with full process control  8) All except the PACE use a dual diaphragm 'flat twin' pump. Avoid cheaper single diaphragm pumps as they do vibrate due to the unbalanced nature of the design. As stated the PACE uses a fancy high speed turbine air compressor....but then it cost a small fortune when new !

Buy what ever suits your pocket, but IMHO buy mid range and not the cheapest model if you want acceptable quality and longevity.

Fraser
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 07:53:03 pm by Aurora »
 

Offline Orpheus

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 120
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #98 on: February 22, 2013, 07:06:31 pm »
Thank you for your thorough response on diaphragm-pump units. The air supply was the one big technical issue I could only guess at after reading the thread, which was otherwise quite clear to me.

I certainly don't mind doing a bit of fix-up. I've capriciously modified perfectly functional commercial products to my tastes since I was a teen (which was longer ago than seems possible; I'm going to have a long talk with my mirror about the clearly faulty "white balance" in my hair). In fact, I've often felt hobbled by warranties -- they are lovely to have, especially for items you rely on, but when the warranty ends,  the freedom and fun truly begin. More often than not, it's faster, easier (and dare I say 'more reliable') to fix it myself than abandon it to the tender mercies of a distant authorized service center anyway.

I originally leaned toward a WEP 858D, simply because an out-of-town friend has one and likes it (alas, a personal inspection is impractical), but ironically, the strongest deterrent was that it happens to have the cheapest total price on eBay and fastest US delivery at present (from one seller; others charge more and ship slower) My second and third (and possibly more) choices were American 2-in-1 or 3-in-1 stations, some with diaphragm pumps. Hence my questions.

I knew that pro units seem to choose the pump, but my heart favored the simpler mechanics and wiring of a fan handpiece vs a more complex pump and silicone tube/cable hybrid -- especially should a repair or replacement be necessary.

I expect the US units to have better consistency, quality and local standards compliance (they have more to lose), yet at least two US models (one with a diaphragm) manage to be only slightly more expensive on eBay, all things considered, despite what I assume must be higher costs (can the edge lie in shipping?) I'd likely chose those, but their footprint is MUCH larger.  (Maybe they get those cases/parts cheaper?)

I have a large workshop, but no matter where I sit, I can only reach X sq ft of bench/shelf -- a silly but real obstacle.

Oh well, the bank called this morning to report "suspicious activity" on the card I was going to use (though all the transactions I see are with US retailers I've bought from before), so I guess I'll wait until all that is sorted out on Monday.
 

Offline tylerl

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 19
  • Country: us
    • tylerl.com
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #99 on: February 22, 2013, 07:33:17 pm »
Actually how DO diaphragm pump units supply the heater and ground the hand-piece? A second cable? I can't imagine the heater is in the base unit-- a hot silicone cable would be terrible to work around.

Diaphragm pump units still put the heater in the hand-piece, just like the fan unit does. The wiring for the heater/thermocouple run inside the air hose.

FWIW, I briefly owned a pump unit and returned it because the noise was annoying. Even with several levels of noise dampening and isolation within the box, the thump-thump-thump was problematic for when I needed to work after the kids went to bed. I purchased a cheap Chinese 898D+ (same as the 858D+ but w/ a soldering iron) off Amazon for half the price, and I'm happy with the results.
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #100 on: February 23, 2013, 01:51:16 am »
Precisely, the cheap ones are nasty single diaphragm pumps. That said, aoyue's got a turbine pump version
http://www.aoyue.com/en/ArticleShow.asp?ArticleID=382 It's the 857A++
 

Offline soren

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 54
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #101 on: November 21, 2013, 08:01:15 pm »
I just bought an Atten AT858A because I like rotary knobs and it was slightly cheaper than the D version.

I half expected it to be the same microcontroller design but it is all analog, which should be a little more repairable.

The switching frequency is such that the front heater LED provides a good indication of the thermal load.

Otherwise identical to the 858D and with the same caveats like poor chassis grounding and inadequate strain relief at both ends of the handpiece cable.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 08:03:02 pm by soren »
 

Offline zapta

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6004
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #167 - Atten 858D Hot Air Rework Review
« Reply #102 on: January 22, 2014, 04:49:32 pm »
Is it practical to use a unit like this to reflow SMD boards instead of a toaster oven? 

This is for a few one-of boards by an hobbyist, not a serious production, and with packages like this one

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/ATA6614Q-PLQW/ATA6614Q-PLQWTR-ND/3903739
Drain the swamp.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf