Author Topic: EEVblog #545 - Vintage Design Rant  (Read 26305 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ddavidebor

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1162
  • Country: gb
    • Fermium
EEVblog #545 - Vintage Design Rant
« Reply #75 on: November 09, 2013, 10:39:29 pm »
Because leonardo is cool and clipart nerdy
Davide Bortolami,
Fermium LTD
 

Offline Alexei.Polkhanov

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 683
  • Country: ca
Re: EEVblog #545 - Vintage Design Rant
« Reply #76 on: November 09, 2013, 11:13:33 pm »
Well, Leonardo often used methods and techniques that were later abandoned due to problems with oxidation, humidity etc.

I guess when we look at old designs we have to look at it in context where half of design decisions were ingenious but another half was just just stupid and later replaced by something better. Point of looking at it is in knowing which one is which.
 

Offline Agent24

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 103
  • Country: nz
Re: EEVblog #545 - Vintage Design Rant
« Reply #77 on: November 10, 2013, 01:21:01 am »
While I certainly agree that teardowns are a great way to learn things, and that old teardowns are often much more fascinating, I don't agree that teardowns of modern devices are always bad - in my opinion it matters more on the actual equipment itself than the age.

For example, you will hopefully find good examples of proper board layout for high speed digital connections on a Kindle PCB, design considerations which are just as valid now as they were decades ago.

And you don't find out how someone used a technology on an old piece of kit that doesn't use that new technology, eg: it wasn't invented yet.
 

Offline vk6zgo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5223
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #545 - Vintage Design Rant
« Reply #78 on: November 10, 2013, 04:46:12 am »
Well, Leonardo often used methods and techniques that were later abandoned due to problems with oxidation, humidity etc.

I guess when we look at old designs we have to look at it in context where half of design decisions were ingenious but another half was just just stupid and later replaced by something better. Point of looking at it is in knowing which one is which.

Agreed,sometimes old designs do use something that with hindsight looks stupid, but in many cases the Engineers were forced to do it that way because the "suits" wanted to use up old inventory.

"Penny pinching" has been with us for many years.
A classic case is the way Marconi used big,clunky pots & other such components for decades.
Maybe they stocked up big in the 1940s because they thought WW2 might go another 10 years! ;D

What I think is interesting about old equipment is mainly the mechanical side of things.
Lots of people can design Electronics,but it takes a high degree of professionalism to produce something as physically stable,& just plain "useable"as some of these old beasties.
 

Offline Seg

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 71
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #545 - Vintage Design Rant
« Reply #79 on: November 10, 2013, 05:24:21 am »
Hmmm, I have a 3rd gen Kindle that found its way under my knee on the bed one day. Keep an eye out for it in the mailbag...
 

Offline mimmus78

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 674
  • Country: it
Re: EEVblog #545 - Vintage Design Rant
« Reply #80 on: November 10, 2013, 09:59:27 am »
I think this generation is very fortunate to have this stuff to play with. Old equipment is like open source software, you can understand how it works and try to improve repair it if you know what you are doing.

I repaired many analogic equipment in last few years and I enjoyed it because every time i learnt something.

I find more interesting watching this old equipment teardown than poking with boring new digital stuff.

D.
 

Offline kcozens

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 42
  • Country: ca
Re: EEVblog #545 - Vintage Design Rant
« Reply #81 on: November 10, 2013, 09:01:43 pm »
If a person is watching teardown videos only to see what circuitry is inside the boxes they are missing out on part of the learning opportunity offered by the videos. A teardown shows you see the circuitry inside the box and what parts are used but more than that, and equally as important, is how the circuitry was packaged. You can learn whether one circuit board was used or if there are multiple boards. You can see how the boards, and other items inside the box are mounted and interconnected. You can see how the displays, buttons, knobs, and switches are mounted, and how they are connected back to the main circuit boards.

There is more to electronics than just making a circuit that works if you are trying to create a product.
 

Offline CHexclaim

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 81
  • Country: uy
Re: EEVblog #545 - Vintage Design Rant
« Reply #82 on: November 11, 2013, 02:17:29 am »
Which is the best part of the teardown of a modern scope or similar signal gear? The black squares with heatsinks on top? The switching power supply? The handle? NO! The signal front end, with all that black magic shaped traces that make a beautiful background picture for the computer.

It comes to my mind that it is really a pity when technology gets lost in time. Sometimes engineers need to copy old designs to achieve a goal. Nasa, on the process of designing the new spacecraft, sent engineers to the museum where one of the Apollo capsule sits to learn how certain things were designed then and why. I cannot find the quote for that but I clearly remember. I did find this though: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2268189/Nasa-fires-museum-piece-rocket-time-40-years.html

CH!
 

Offline samgab

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 423
  • Country: nz
Re: EEVblog #545 - Vintage Design Rant
« Reply #83 on: November 11, 2013, 04:00:24 am »
Hmmm, I have a 3rd gen Kindle that found its way under my knee on the bed one day. Keep an eye out for it in the mailbag...
He's already done a teardown on one of those...

« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 04:03:19 am by samgab »
 

Offline madshaman

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 699
  • Country: ca
  • ego trans insani
EEVblog #545 - Vintage Design Rant
« Reply #84 on: November 11, 2013, 05:21:15 am »

Which is the best part of the teardown of a modern scope or similar signal gear? The black squares with heatsinks on top? The switching power supply? The handle? NO! The signal front end, with all that black magic shaped traces that make a beautiful background picture for the computer.

It comes to my mind that it is really a pity when technology gets lost in time. Sometimes engineers need to copy old designs to achieve a goal. Nasa, on the process of designing the new spacecraft, sent engineers to the museum where one of the Apollo capsule sits to learn how certain things were designed then and why. I cannot find the quote for that but I clearly remember. I did find this though: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2268189/Nasa-fires-museum-piece-rocket-time-40-years.html

CH!

Great point wrt NASA.  Honestly, if a person cannot see or refuses to see value in studying designs of the past in any field they are only hurting themselves.

Design is a creative process (I'd go as far as saying it's artistic) and the more ideas one is exposed to, the more ideas one has to draw from when facing a design challenge.
To be responsible, but never to let fear stop the imagination.
 

Offline Bored@Work

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3932
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #545 - Vintage Design Rant
« Reply #85 on: November 11, 2013, 07:20:59 am »
I think the worst offenders are usually software people. Everything older than a few month and they don't want to use it. They have a new, useless programming language every six month, new web frameworks, new libraries to blink a LED every six month. They just can't have it to leave something alone and just let it work.

The irony is that their shiny "new" is often just another rehash of something decades old.
I delete PMs unread. If you have something to say, say it in public.
For all else: Profile->[Modify Profile]Buddies/Ignore List->Edit Ignore List
 

Offline JoannaK

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 337
  • Country: fi
    • Diytao making blog
Re: EEVblog #545 - Vintage Design Rant
« Reply #86 on: November 11, 2013, 11:16:50 am »
I think the worst offenders are usually software people. Everything older than a few month and they don't want to use it. They have a new, useless programming language every six month, new web frameworks, new libraries to blink a LED every six month. They just can't have it to leave something alone and just let it work.

The irony is that their shiny "new" is often just another rehash of something decades old.

A good example of the 'new' are languages like Java (and later) that use immediate compiling and virtual CPU.s to run the identical precompiled code on all machines. Like using Byte (or 16 bit) stack based computers were something new.. Even on home/personal computers have been having those Since System-P (that was available at least AppleII at it's heyday, and I'm quite sure the System-P is a lot older than that.

And IIRC, it's still available at some variant.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf