Author Topic: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator  (Read 242814 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline carpelux

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 66
  • Country: se
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #350 on: May 07, 2013, 08:44:50 pm »
Thanks a lot!
---------------------------------------
Catch the light
 

Offline jpb

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1706
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #351 on: May 07, 2013, 09:05:26 pm »
I received my kits yesterday.  Thank you! 

I built one up this morning and put it on my fastest [working] scope, a Tektronix MSO3034.   Photo attached.
I'm looking forward to getting my kit. It seems to produce fairly accurate bandwidth measurements on scopes in the 100MHz to 500MHz range.

Your measurements are for a rise of 7 times. The tau of the pulse generator is around 200psecs for 20% to 80% or 4 times so for 7 times I think this would increase to (ln(7)/ln(4))*200psecs or around 280 psecs so the net rise from your measurements is around sqrt(980^2-280^2)psecs or 940 psecs.

The Bandwidth is then approximately (ln(7)/2.pi)/940psecs = 0.31/940psecs = 330MHz which is 10% up on the nominal 300MHz.

All very believable.
 

Offline EV

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 517
  • Country: fi
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #352 on: May 07, 2013, 09:33:01 pm »
  Photo attached.

Risetimes marked.  :)
 

Offline John_L

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 23
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #353 on: May 09, 2013, 09:15:08 am »
Thanks Vince
 

Offline jpb

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1706
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #354 on: May 09, 2013, 10:41:28 am »
Is it ok to connect the pulser straight to the 50ohm input of an oscilloscope rated at 5Vrms (for 50 ohms)?

I have a WaveJet and the specs don't list a peak voltage for 50 ohms, just the rms value of 5V and I guess that though the peak voltage for the pulser is 10V it only lasts 5nsecs and the duty cycle is low. (What is the duty cycle?)

I haven't got my kit yet but I don't possess any attenuators at present and was wondering whether to get a set (they are quite pricey).
 

Offline EV

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 517
  • Country: fi
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #355 on: May 09, 2013, 02:17:36 pm »
Is it ok to connect the pulser straight to the 50ohm input of an oscilloscope rated at 5Vrms (for 50 ohms)?

I think that there is no problem. My Tektronix TDS3032 has max 5 VRMS with peaks < ±30 V. Problem was that the max vertical division is 1V/div. That is why the pulse can not be seen completely without attenautor. With attenautor the uppper side of the pulse is not horisontal. Look at my earlier post:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-306-jim-williams-pulse-generator/300/
 

Offline free_electron

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7394
  • Country: us
    • SiliconValleyGarage
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #356 on: May 09, 2013, 02:44:19 pm »
It depends on the scope ... It will definitely clip the signal.
I had the same problem when doing the measurement. I used a real divide by two attenuator during the test.

The attenuator is 50 ohms both ways. Meaning it is 50 ohms towards the pulse generator and also matches the 50 ohms of the scope. (Plus we 'calibrated' the attenuator away.)
Professional Electron Wrangler.
Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

Offline EV

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 517
  • Country: fi
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #357 on: May 13, 2013, 10:16:03 am »
I have got now 6 dB attenuator. It is much better than that 20 dB attenuator which I used earlier. The upper side of the pulse is much nearer horisontal line now. I have ordered also 3 dB attenuator which is probably still better and with it the whole pulse can also be seen.
 

Offline jpb

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1706
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #358 on: May 13, 2013, 10:48:14 am »
It depends on the scope ... It will definitely clip the signal.
I had the same problem when doing the measurement. I used a real divide by two attenuator during the test.

The attenuator is 50 ohms both ways. Meaning it is 50 ohms towards the pulse generator and also matches the 50 ohms of the scope. (Plus we 'calibrated' the attenuator away.)
I guess I'll go with an attenuator to be safe.

The WaveJet that I have states that 5Vrms is a maximum for the 50ohm input but it goes up to 2V/div on 50ohms so presumably can show 16Vp-p so should be able to show a 10V pulse without clipping (I'm assuming that you can apply an offset of around -5V.)

SMA attenuators appear to be much higher frequency than BNC ones (18GHz vs 1 or 2GHz) for the same sort of price but I guess it makes little difference as the SMA to BNC adapter is probably only good to a GHz and my scope is 350MHz anyway.

(Hameg do a reasonably priced set of 4 attenuators and a 50ohm pass through rated at 1W and  1GHz with BNC connectors designed for their scopes.)
 

Offline free_electron

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7394
  • Country: us
    • SiliconValleyGarage
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #359 on: May 13, 2013, 01:53:00 pm »
Anyone not received his pulsegen yet ?

(Apart from the last 8 buyers. Those leave today or tomorrow. I packcaged them over the weekend)
Professional Electron Wrangler.
Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

Offline fmaimon

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 165
  • Country: br
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #360 on: May 13, 2013, 03:01:02 pm »
As I'm on vacations, I won't know for another 2 weeks, but I wouldn't be surprised if i still havn't arrived, as the Brazilian Post and customs are very slow... As soon as I get home I'll check.
 

Offline w2aew

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1752
  • Country: us
  • I usTa cuDnt speL enjinere, noW I aR wuN
    • My YouTube Channel
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #361 on: May 14, 2013, 10:25:00 pm »
OK, here are my results from pulse tester #6 (thanks Scotto!).  First is the result using my old Tektronix 2467 which is a 350MHz analog scope.  Cursors are on the approximate 10-90% points.  The next two images are using a homebrew 20dB attenuator (which may slightly slow the results), on a 1GHz Tektronix MDO4104-6 and on a Tektronix 8GHz MSO70804C.
YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/w2aew
FAE for Tektronix
Technical Coordinator for the ARRL Northern NJ Section
 

Offline hgg

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 907
  • Country: gr
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #362 on: May 15, 2013, 06:45:02 am »
free_electron, hi !

Can I have a calibrated one as well ??  Do you sell them assembled?
What is the total cost to Greece?
 

Offline SeanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15382
  • Country: za
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #363 on: May 15, 2013, 11:43:18 am »
W2aew, I think the scope is the limiting factor here...........

Hgg, I think Vince does have some left, you will have to PM him to see.
 

Offline jpb

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1706
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #364 on: May 15, 2013, 11:51:11 am »
W2aew, I think the scope is the limiting factor here...........

That is true for the first two, but not for the 8GHz scope.

Vince's measurements gave rise times for 20% to 80% whilst W2aew's are for 10% to 90% so will be (ln(9)/ln(4)) times as long approximately (at least that would be the case for a simple exponential type rise as with a Gaussian filter - I'm not so sure about the case for maximally flat input responses as in higher frequency scopes).

So 234psecs for 10% to 90% would correspond to only around 148psecs for 20% to 80%.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 11:53:47 am by jpb »
 

Offline EV

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 517
  • Country: fi
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #365 on: May 15, 2013, 11:59:32 am »
W2aew, fine scopes and pictures!  :P
 

Offline hgg

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 907
  • Country: gr
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #366 on: May 15, 2013, 01:54:26 pm »
Thanks SeanB, I will.
 

Online BravoV

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6767
  • Country: 00
  • +++ ATH1
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #367 on: May 17, 2013, 05:29:52 am »
I will post the final cal screenshots this weekend. Last batch goes out the door tomorrow. Fmaimon was in the last batch.(last week)
I'll post an updat tonight. Everything os put the door. There are kits and cals left and a few bare boards as welll. How many ... I need to cou t em.
Ah yes. I will post the other screenshots today.

Shameless bump.  >:D

Offline free_electron

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7394
  • Country: us
    • SiliconValleyGarage
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #368 on: May 17, 2013, 01:44:43 pm »
I need one of three things :
- invent time travel
- clone myself so there's two of me
- days of 48 hours ...

I'll try posting the rest tonoght.
Professional Electron Wrangler.
Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

Offline AlfBaz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2029
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #369 on: May 17, 2013, 02:13:30 pm »
I need one of three things :
- invent time travel
- clone myself so there's two of me
- days of 48 hours ...

I'll try posting the rest tonoght.
Gees you're a wimp, there's at least another 8 hours you are wasting with sleep! :)
 

Offline Teneyes

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 497
  • Country: ca
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #370 on: May 17, 2013, 02:16:24 pm »
Be Nice

Be Positive to catch more Free Electrons
IiIiIiIiIi  --  curiosity killed the cat but, satisfaction brought it back
 

Offline free_electron

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7394
  • Country: us
    • SiliconValleyGarage
« Last Edit: May 19, 2013, 03:58:51 pm by free_electron »
Professional Electron Wrangler.
Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

Offline c4757p

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7805
  • Country: us
  • adieu
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #372 on: May 19, 2013, 05:56:43 pm »
(Apart from the last 8 buyers. Those leave today or tomorrow. I packcaged them over the weekend)

Have you mailed these yet?
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Offline Teneyes

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 497
  • Country: ca
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #373 on: May 19, 2013, 06:27:11 pm »
@BravoV
  Will you be nitpicking about the Standard deviation in the values of Risetimes of Free's workmanship ::)
IiIiIiIiIi  --  curiosity killed the cat but, satisfaction brought it back
 

Offline JimmyMz

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 56
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #306 - Jim Williams Pulse Generator
« Reply #374 on: May 19, 2013, 09:08:42 pm »
Free_Electron, you have a PM.  :)
If you didn't get this message, let me know, and I'll get you another.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf