Author Topic: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes  (Read 37585 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29702
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« on: July 13, 2012, 05:43:04 am »


Dave.
 

Offline Kozmyk

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 122
  • Country: wales
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2012, 06:02:23 am »
I had a Siglent SDS1102CM last year. I liked the features it had to offer but I didn't like the way the triggering couldn't handle noisy waveforms. The display would jitter. I returned it and got a Rigol DS1052E instead, no jitter on that one. Siglent customer support were very easy to deal with though.
 

Offline hans

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1038
  • Country: nl
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2012, 08:51:34 am »
Here is another scope: http://www.eleshop.nl/images/product_DSO100.jpg
Troniq DSO25/DSO100; compare that to the Siglent, well... rebadged.

There is a little webshop here that sells the Troniq 25MHz 500MS/s 4K memory for 250 euro's (300$ aus). The 100MHz is 350 euro (420$ aus)
Still I'd get the Rigol, because it's 'only' 500MS/s for 100MHz version, and 4K memory dept isn't that spectacular.
Although, it did seem much faster than the Agilent's Rigol one. Hmm, lot of bulk added to conform to Agilent 'standards'?

I think firmware wise they probably have some kind of agreement between each other. Maybe Rigol has some subsidiaries we don't know of.  ::) The interface seems so similar.
I can imagine that the 'scope technology' is home made, but the interface parts are all identical.

I think the Unique is the same as Tenma:
http://uk.farnell.com/tenma/72-8230/digital-storage-scope-60mhz-2-ch/dp/1739444
(Farnell number 1739444)
Isn't Tenma Farnell's brand? Hmmm

And here at Conrad, we also have Voltcraft:
http://www.conrad.nl/medias/global/ce/1000_1999/1200/1220/1224/122464_LB_00_FB.EPS_1000.jpg
Not sure which one that is..

And we also have Uni-T's
http://business.reichelt.de/bilder/web/xxl/D150/UT2042C-AR.jpg

The only manufacturer that seems to make their own firmware is Owon; http://www.eleshop.nl/images/product_SDS6062.jpg
That one is about 450 euro here; 100MHz, 1GS/s, 10MByte memory. But some say the update speed is very slow, even slower than all Rigols.

Gosh, so many 'cheapies'. I guess everyone can do 500MS/s or 1GS/s 100MHz scopes these days with a Cyclone III + fast ADC's..
Shootout? ;D
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 09:04:22 am by hans »
 

Offline Stephen Hill

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 178
  • Country: gb
  • M3VXY
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2012, 08:55:36 am »
Dave,

Although I know it would take some time to do, I think it would be very nice to have entry level oscilloscope shootout covering a few shown in the video above in a bit more detail.

Many beginners ask what scope they should buy and as there is a lot of choice from China, having an oscilloscope shootout might help them tremendously.

Provided that TrioSmartCal are willing to lend you half a dozen scopes of course.

Cheers
Stephen
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29702
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2012, 09:19:42 am »
Provided that TrioSmartCal are willing to lend you half a dozen scopes of course.

They would be, I have the run of the shop there :->
But:
a) there is always some brand/model that someone wants.
b) It would need to be several shootout categorised. i.e. the best value in the 100MHz might be entirely different to the best value in the 25MHz domain for example, even though they are the same scopes.
c) It's a huge amount of work  :-\

It would definitely needs some sort of check list system for comparison, so the video did not end up being 5 hours long. As one typical thorough oscilloscope review video (not including teardown!) would be 30-45min minimum.

Dave.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 09:21:48 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline Stephen Hill

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 178
  • Country: gb
  • M3VXY
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2012, 09:34:25 am »
It would definitely needs some sort of check list system for comparison

Agreed. And I think this would be an acceptable compromise. I think it should be something to seriously consider. I don't think there are any oscilloscope shootout on YouTube.

The biggest take home from the video would be your opinion rather than the technical specs of the scopes (although important too). Like the multimeter shootout, you weeded out the crap and gave your honest opinion about which multimeter was the best in the group.

Cheers
Stephen
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29702
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2012, 09:44:34 am »
Agreed. And I think this would be an acceptable compromise. I think it should be something to seriously consider. I don't think there are any oscilloscope shootout on YouTube.

Yes, it would have to be, here's the checklist, maybe a dozen items, comparing (very) briefly each scope for that function/feature. Then give a winner for each function/feature and tally that on a spreadsheet.

Only problem is, all that work, for one lousy video  :'( compared to say 5 reviews, 5 teardowns, and a summary shootout video  ;D

Quote
The biggest take home from the video would be your opinion rather than the technical specs of the scopes (although important too). Like the multimeter shootout, you weeded out the crap and gave your honest opinion about which multimeter was the best in the group.

But my opinion isn't everything, people have different needs, so they need some form of detailed info on each scope in order to make their own choice.

Dave.
 

Offline Stephen Hill

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 178
  • Country: gb
  • M3VXY
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2012, 10:16:53 am »
All that work, for one lousy video  :'( compared to say 5 reviews, 5 teardowns, and a summary shootout video  ;D

One video or five videos is definitely up to you :)

But my opinion isn't everything, people have different needs, so they need some form of detailed info on each scope in order to make their own choice.

But isn't the point of a review to offer up your opinion based on your experience and knowledge? I can look through oscilloscope brochures and datasheets all day long but nothing beats someones trusted point of view.

Cheers
Stephen
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 10:21:13 am by Stephen Hill »
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29702
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2012, 10:43:55 am »
But isn't the point of a review to offer up your opinion based on your experience and knowledge? I can look through oscilloscope brochures and datasheets all day long but nothing beats someones trusted point of view.

Well, yeah, but I actually hate it when people simply buy something based on my sole opinion without considering their own needs and if it's really right for them.
That's why I find it hard to give shootout opinions, because it's always "it depends".
Opinion works well at the extreme ends of the scale, like "it's absolute crap" and "top quality, you generally can't go wrong buying this". But what if you've got 5 instruments in the later category? My opinion in that case is ultimately going to come down to very minor personal things.

Dave.
 

Offline almoehi

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 28
  • Country: de
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2012, 11:41:28 am »
Hi Dave,

But we are all grown up. At least the majority of your followers should be.
When I saw your videos about the Agilent scope I liked it. But after I researched al little bit and did some calculations I found that the newly released Hameg suited me much better. So I got it.

Go for it, I would love to see the comparision.
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2012, 12:26:22 pm »
Here is another scope: http://www.eleshop.nl/images/product_DSO100.jpg
Troniq DSO25/DSO100; compare that to the Siglent, well... rebadged.

There is a little webshop here that sells the Troniq 25MHz 500MS/s 4K memory for 250 euro's (300$ aus). The 100MHz is 350 euro (420$ aus)
Still I'd get the Rigol, because it's 'only' 500MS/s for 100MHz version, and 4K memory dept isn't that spectacular.
Although, it did seem much faster than the Agilent's Rigol one. Hmm, lot of bulk added to conform to Agilent 'standards'?

I think firmware wise they probably have some kind of agreement between each other. Maybe Rigol has some subsidiaries we don't know of.  ::) The interface seems so similar.
I can imagine that the 'scope technology' is home made, but the interface parts are all identical.

I think the Unique is the same as Tenma:
http://uk.farnell.com/tenma/72-8230/digital-storage-scope-60mhz-2-ch/dp/1739444
(Farnell number 1739444)
Isn't Tenma Farnell's brand? Hmmm

And here at Conrad, we also have Voltcraft:
http://www.conrad.nl/medias/global/ce/1000_1999/1200/1220/1224/122464_LB_00_FB.EPS_1000.jpg
Not sure which one that is..

And we also have Uni-T's
http://business.reichelt.de/bilder/web/xxl/D150/UT2042C-AR.jpg

The only manufacturer that seems to make their own firmware is Owon; http://www.eleshop.nl/images/product_SDS6062.jpg
That one is about 450 euro here; 100MHz, 1GS/s, 10MByte memory. But some say the update speed is very slow, even slower than all Rigols.

Gosh, so many 'cheapies'. I guess everyone can do 500MS/s or 1GS/s 100MHz scopes these days with a Cyclone III + fast ADC's..
Shootout? ;D

Still far faster than rigol at high sampling depths, it's not slow and what you heard is not correct! aghp told his story with a owon vs. hantek video
 

Offline David_AVD

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2600
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2012, 01:00:21 pm »
I had no idea cheap little digital scopes like the Siglent SDS1022S were out there.  Sound like a neat little unit to throw in the service van to supplement DMM measurements on site.   :)

 

Offline hans

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1038
  • Country: nl
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2012, 01:04:15 pm »
@DaveXRT: I must be mis informed then. 450 euro's for a 100MHz scope with 10MPts memory sounds very interesting.

I believe the only 2 major flaws in the scope was firmware bugs (but every scope has that I suppose) and some instability (rubber feet not grippy enough). I'm considering it , though, as it seems a nice basic entry level.

I can't find the video you mentoined, do you got a link?
 

Offline IanJ

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 992
  • Country: scotland
  • Pro EE guy many years ago, now a hobby/home biz.
    • IanJohnston.com
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2012, 02:01:06 pm »
Hi,

Yes, I'd love to know who is actually making what!
The panel layouts & GUI are almost identical, so obviously re-badged.

Tenma:-


Uni-T:-


Unique:-
From what I can see Unique don't do the widescreen layout versions so the layout is a little different.


Ian Johnston
www.ianjohnston.com
Manufacturer of the PDVS2 & PDVS2mini
 

Offline Stephen Hill

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 178
  • Country: gb
  • M3VXY
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2012, 02:03:38 pm »
Yes, I'd love to know who is actually making what!

Unfortunately, we'll probably never find out.

PS: This was my 100th post :)
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 02:07:44 pm by Stephen Hill »
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2012, 03:01:23 pm »
I think you are looking for the http://uni-trend.com/UTD2062C.html
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2012, 03:07:15 pm »
@DaveXRT: I must be mis informed then. 450 euro's for a 100MHz scope with 10MPts memory sounds very interesting.

I believe the only 2 major flaws in the scope was firmware bugs (but every scope has that I suppose) and some instability (rubber feet not grippy enough). I'm considering it , though, as it seems a nice basic entry level.

I can't find the video you mentoined, do you got a link?

1)

2)
http://www.mediafire.com/?62z6s1ap9md3am8
 

Uncle Vernon

  • Guest
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2012, 03:59:43 pm »
Well, yeah, but I actually hate it when people simply buy something based on my sole opinion

That's just the first stage, later on you get the pissing and moaning that it doesn't meet some criteria they'd refused to consider. Final stage is "It's all your fault!".  There are always exceptions, but in general people tend to be a-holes.
 

Offline rolycat

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1090
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2012, 05:00:59 pm »
And here at Conrad, we also have Voltcraft:
http://www.conrad.nl/medias/global/ce/1000_1999/1200/1220/1224/122464_LB_00_FB.EPS_1000.jpg
Not sure which one that is..

That is a rebadged Hantek DSO5062B. Tinhead is this forum's resident expert on those.
 

Offline bxs

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 89
  • Country: 00
 

Offline nitro2k01

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 844
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2012, 08:18:53 pm »
Hi,

Yes, I'd love to know who is actually making what!
The panel layouts & GUI are almost identical, so obviously re-badged.

Tenma:-


Uni-T:-


Unique:-
From what I can see Unique don't do the widescreen layout versions so the layout is a little different.

Tenma and Uni-T are so obviously rebadges. The design is same down to the placement of each individual button. Unique is different. (Duh! Pun not intended!) It might still be of a similar type, but then again, many things will be similar across the board. You will have your typical 5 function keys, scale position, trigger level two channels, trigger input calibration terminal. and a bunch of buttons. Seeing those things is nowhere near conclusive.

Btw, I replaced the Unique image with a different one, which shows something interesting. It looks like someone did a bad Photoshop job to try and increase the brightness of the screen.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 08:21:12 pm by nitro2k01 »
Whoa! How the hell did Dave know that Bob is my uncle? Amazing!
 

Offline tuo

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 13
  • Country: de
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2012, 09:05:43 pm »
As noted above, the Unique is just similar with the bit older UNI-T:s UTD 2000 C series. I saw the video and noticed the similarities in the feel of the GUI with my own UTD 2052 CEL, which is the newer widescreen model.
 

Offline KAlSi3O8

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 4
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2012, 01:29:22 am »
I think these Chinese branded scopes will be getting much better in the next few years. Most western big name scope mfgs have moved manufacturing over to China years ago. The next wave which is in progress is to move the engineering for low end products over there. Some just hire the engineering out while others will try and keep it in-house. Both in-house and out-house engineering will get oversight by high quality US/EU engineering and they will learn fast. And finally Chinese engineers are in high demand and they will get hired away. All this means that technology will continue to flow toward the east and these low end Chinese scopes will be every bit as good as their western competitors. Eventually the western companies will dry up and blow away because they can not survive without the very high markups on their products while the Chinese can. A sad state of affairs. That is my opinion anyway.
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2012, 07:12:10 am »
Most western big name scope mfgs have moved manufacturing over to China years ago.
That's what happens to OHLJ, western bosses expect as cheap as possible manufacturing processes when they move to china
But when it's a chinese boss, there's decent quality to be had.

@nitro2k01
UNI-T is the OEM
 

Offline Bored@Work

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3932
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2012, 08:17:43 am »
There will be a point when China will no longer be able to leach and steal Western technology - when the West has no longer the money, resources, and the incentive to develop new things. This will be the moment we will see if the Chinese are indeed s good as they claim. At the moment things are massively skewed because of the intentional and unintentional transfer of technology to China.
I delete PMs unread. If you have something to say, say it in public.
For all else: Profile->[Modify Profile]Buddies/Ignore List->Edit Ignore List
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf