EEVblog #310 - Cheap Siglent and Agilent scopes

[EEVblog]

Dave.

[Kozmyk]

I had a Siglent SDS1102CM last year. I liked the features it had to offer but I didn't like the way the triggering couldn't handle noisy waveforms. The display would jitter. I returned it and got a Rigol DS1052E instead, no jitter on that one. Siglent customer support were very easy to deal with though.

[hans]

Here is another scope: http://www.eleshop.nl/images/product_DSO100.jpg
Troniq DSO25/DSO100; compare that to the Siglent, well... rebadged.

There is a little webshop here that sells the Troniq 25MHz 500MS/s 4K memory for 250 euro's (300$ aus). The 100MHz is 350 euro (420$ aus)
Still I'd get the Rigol, because it's 'only' 500MS/s for 100MHz version, and 4K memory dept isn't that spectacular.
Although, it did seem much faster than the Agilent's Rigol one. Hmm, lot of bulk added to conform to Agilent 'standards'?

I think firmware wise they probably have some kind of agreement between each other. Maybe Rigol has some subsidiaries we don't know of.  The interface seems so similar.
I can imagine that the 'scope technology' is home made, but the interface parts are all identical.

I think the Unique is the same as Tenma:
http://uk.farnell.com/tenma/72-8230/digital-storage-scope-60mhz-2-ch/dp/1739444
(Farnell number 1739444)
Isn't Tenma Farnell's brand? Hmmm

And here at Conrad, we also have Voltcraft:
http://www.conrad.nl/medias/global/ce/1000_1999/1200/1220/1224/122464_LB_00_FB.EPS_1000.jpg
Not sure which one that is..

And we also have Uni-T's
http://business.reichelt.de/bilder/web/xxl/D150/UT2042C-AR.jpg

The only manufacturer that seems to make their own firmware is Owon; http://www.eleshop.nl/images/product_SDS6062.jpg
That one is about 450 euro here; 100MHz, 1GS/s, 10MByte memory. But some say the update speed is very slow, even slower than all Rigols.

Gosh, so many 'cheapies'. I guess everyone can do 500MS/s or 1GS/s 100MHz scopes these days with a Cyclone III + fast ADC's..
Shootout?

[Stephen Hill]

Dave,

Although I know it would take some time to do, I think it would be very nice to have entry level oscilloscope shootout covering a few shown in the video above in a bit more detail.

Many beginners ask what scope they should buy and as there is a lot of choice from China, having an oscilloscope shootout might help them tremendously.

Provided that TrioSmartCal are willing to lend you half a dozen scopes of course.

Cheers
Stephen

[EEVblog]

Provided that TrioSmartCal are willing to lend you half a dozen scopes of course.

They would be, I have the run of the shop there :->
But:
a) there is always some brand/model that someone wants.
b) It would need to be several shootout categorised. i.e. the best value in the 100MHz might be entirely different to the best value in the 25MHz domain for example, even though they are the same scopes.
c) It's a huge amount of work 

It would definitely needs some sort of check list system for comparison, so the video did not end up being 5 hours long. As one typical thorough oscilloscope review video (not including teardown!) would be 30-45min minimum.

Dave.

[Stephen Hill]

It would definitely needs some sort of check list system for comparison

Agreed. And I think this would be an acceptable compromise. I think it should be something to seriously consider. I don't think there are any oscilloscope shootout on YouTube.

The biggest take home from the video would be your opinion rather than the technical specs of the scopes (although important too). Like the multimeter shootout, you weeded out the crap and gave your honest opinion about which multimeter was the best in the group.

Cheers
Stephen

[EEVblog]

Agreed. And I think this would be an acceptable compromise. I think it should be something to seriously consider. I don't think there are any oscilloscope shootout on YouTube.

Yes, it would have to be, here's the checklist, maybe a dozen items, comparing (very) briefly each scope for that function/feature. Then give a winner for each function/feature and tally that on a spreadsheet.

Only problem is, all that work, for one lousy video  compared to say 5 reviews, 5 teardowns, and a summary shootout video 

The biggest take home from the video would be your opinion rather than the technical specs of the scopes (although important too). Like the multimeter shootout, you weeded out the crap and gave your honest opinion about which multimeter was the best in the group.

But my opinion isn't everything, people have different needs, so they need some form of detailed info on each scope in order to make their own choice.

Dave.

[Stephen Hill]

All that work, for one lousy video  compared to say 5 reviews, 5 teardowns, and a summary shootout video 

One video or five videos is definitely up to you

But my opinion isn't everything, people have different needs, so they need some form of detailed info on each scope in order to make their own choice.

But isn't the point of a review to offer up your opinion based on your experience and knowledge? I can look through oscilloscope brochures and datasheets all day long but nothing beats someones trusted point of view.

Cheers
Stephen

[EEVblog]

But isn't the point of a review to offer up your opinion based on your experience and knowledge? I can look through oscilloscope brochures and datasheets all day long but nothing beats someones trusted point of view.

Well, yeah, but I actually hate it when people simply buy something based on my sole opinion without considering their own needs and if it's really right for them.
That's why I find it hard to give shootout opinions, because it's always "it depends".
Opinion works well at the extreme ends of the scale, like "it's absolute crap" and "top quality, you generally can't go wrong buying this". But what if you've got 5 instruments in the later category? My opinion in that case is ultimately going to come down to very minor personal things.

Dave.

[almoehi]

Hi Dave,

But we are all grown up. At least the majority of your followers should be.
When I saw your videos about the Agilent scope I liked it. But after I researched al little bit and did some calculations I found that the newly released Hameg suited me much better. So I got it.

Go for it, I would love to see the comparision.

[T4P]

Here is another scope: http://www.eleshop.nl/images/product_DSO100.jpg
Troniq DSO25/DSO100; compare that to the Siglent, well... rebadged.

There is a little webshop here that sells the Troniq 25MHz 500MS/s 4K memory for 250 euro's (300$ aus). The 100MHz is 350 euro (420$ aus)
Still I'd get the Rigol, because it's 'only' 500MS/s for 100MHz version, and 4K memory dept isn't that spectacular.
Although, it did seem much faster than the Agilent's Rigol one. Hmm, lot of bulk added to conform to Agilent 'standards'?

I think firmware wise they probably have some kind of agreement between each other. Maybe Rigol has some subsidiaries we don't know of.  The interface seems so similar.
I can imagine that the 'scope technology' is home made, but the interface parts are all identical.

I think the Unique is the same as Tenma:
http://uk.farnell.com/tenma/72-8230/digital-storage-scope-60mhz-2-ch/dp/1739444
(Farnell number 1739444)
Isn't Tenma Farnell's brand? Hmmm

And here at Conrad, we also have Voltcraft:
http://www.conrad.nl/medias/global/ce/1000_1999/1200/1220/1224/122464_LB_00_FB.EPS_1000.jpg
Not sure which one that is..

And we also have Uni-T's
http://business.reichelt.de/bilder/web/xxl/D150/UT2042C-AR.jpg

The only manufacturer that seems to make their own firmware is Owon; http://www.eleshop.nl/images/product_SDS6062.jpg
That one is about 450 euro here; 100MHz, 1GS/s, 10MByte memory. But some say the update speed is very slow, even slower than all Rigols.

Gosh, so many 'cheapies'. I guess everyone can do 500MS/s or 1GS/s 100MHz scopes these days with a Cyclone III + fast ADC's..
Shootout?

Still far faster than rigol at high sampling depths, it's not slow and what you heard is not correct! aghp told his story with a owon vs. hantek video

[David_AVD]

I had no idea cheap little digital scopes like the Siglent SDS1022S were out there.  Sound like a neat little unit to throw in the service van to supplement DMM measurements on site.   

[hans]

@DaveXRT: I must be mis informed then. 450 euro's for a 100MHz scope with 10MPts memory sounds very interesting.

I believe the only 2 major flaws in the scope was firmware bugs (but every scope has that I suppose) and some instability (rubber feet not grippy enough). I'm considering it , though, as it seems a nice basic entry level.

I can't find the video you mentoined, do you got a link?

[IanJ]

Hi,

Yes, I'd love to know who is actually making what!
The panel layouts & GUI are almost identical, so obviously re-badged.

Tenma:-


Uni-T:-


Unique:-
From what I can see Unique don't do the widescreen layout versions so the layout is a little different.

[Stephen Hill]

Yes, I'd love to know who is actually making what!

Unfortunately, we'll probably never find out.

PS: This was my 100th post

[T4P]

I think you are looking for the http://uni-trend.com/UTD2062C.html

[T4P]

@DaveXRT: I must be mis informed then. 450 euro's for a 100MHz scope with 10MPts memory sounds very interesting.

I believe the only 2 major flaws in the scope was firmware bugs (but every scope has that I suppose) and some instability (rubber feet not grippy enough). I'm considering it , though, as it seems a nice basic entry level.

I can't find the video you mentoined, do you got a link?

1)

2)
http://www.mediafire.com/?62z6s1ap9md3am8

[Uncle Vernon]

Well, yeah, but I actually hate it when people simply buy something based on my sole opinion

That's just the first stage, later on you get the pissing and moaning that it doesn't meet some criteria they'd refused to consider. Final stage is "It's all your fault!".  There are always exceptions, but in general people tend to be a-holes.

[rolycat]

And here at Conrad, we also have Voltcraft:
http://www.conrad.nl/medias/global/ce/1000_1999/1200/1220/1224/122464_LB_00_FB.EPS_1000.jpg
Not sure which one that is..

That is a rebadged Hantek DSO5062B. Tinhead is this forum's resident expert on those.

[bxs]

Ya, my atten ads1102cal same fw:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/atten-ads-1102cal-photos/



And once a started looking at easyscope soft and the scopes using it, again same thing:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/easyscope-list-of-digital-oscilloscopes-that-use-it/

[nitro2k01]

Hi,

Yes, I'd love to know who is actually making what!
The panel layouts & GUI are almost identical, so obviously re-badged.

Tenma:-


Uni-T:-


Unique:-
From what I can see Unique don't do the widescreen layout versions so the layout is a little different.

Tenma and Uni-T are so obviously rebadges. The design is same down to the placement of each individual button. Unique is different. (Duh! Pun not intended!) It might still be of a similar type, but then again, many things will be similar across the board. You will have your typical 5 function keys, scale position, trigger level two channels, trigger input calibration terminal. and a bunch of buttons. Seeing those things is nowhere near conclusive.

Btw, I replaced the Unique image with a different one, which shows something interesting. It looks like someone did a bad Photoshop job to try and increase the brightness of the screen.

[tuo]

As noted above, the Unique is just similar with the bit older UNI-T:s UTD 2000 C series. I saw the video and noticed the similarities in the feel of the GUI with my own UTD 2052 CEL, which is the newer widescreen model.

[KAlSi3O8]

I think these Chinese branded scopes will be getting much better in the next few years. Most western big name scope mfgs have moved manufacturing over to China years ago. The next wave which is in progress is to move the engineering for low end products over there. Some just hire the engineering out while others will try and keep it in-house. Both in-house and out-house engineering will get oversight by high quality US/EU engineering and they will learn fast. And finally Chinese engineers are in high demand and they will get hired away. All this means that technology will continue to flow toward the east and these low end Chinese scopes will be every bit as good as their western competitors. Eventually the western companies will dry up and blow away because they can not survive without the very high markups on their products while the Chinese can. A sad state of affairs. That is my opinion anyway.

[T4P]

Most western big name scope mfgs have moved manufacturing over to China years ago.

That's what happens to OHLJ, western bosses expect as cheap as possible manufacturing processes when they move to china
But when it's a chinese boss, there's decent quality to be had.

@nitro2k01
UNI-T is the OEM

[Bored@Work]

There will be a point when China will no longer be able to leach and steal Western technology - when the West has no longer the money, resources, and the incentive to develop new things. This will be the moment we will see if the Chinese are indeed s good as they claim. At the moment things are massively skewed because of the intentional and unintentional transfer of technology to China.