EEVblog #344 - Fluke 17B Multimeter Teardown

[samgab]

The probes that come packaged with the 17b are not TL10s. They're marked "FLK19" on the cable and they're a bit longer and fatter than TL10s. I quite like them, they're comfortable to grip, and the cables are good, if not quite as nice as the soft silicon cables that come with the new TL175s.

As for trimming/cal, I trimmed the DC V on mine, using a precision voltage standard. The information about which trim pot is for which function was found posted in this very forum somewhere, IIRC.
I can't remember now which pot was which, but I marked the key ones inside on the PCB.
R18 is V DC.
R8 is V AC
R11 is Capacitance.
R49 is temp offset, and R35 is temp gain.

[Marvin]

I found the calibration manual from baidu (chinese document dump site) and wasted like an hour of time to get it to download (some strange points system, randomly clicked to get "credit" points to download).

Here it is

http://bsd.ee/~olev/Fluke_15B_17B_calibration_manual.pdf

Describes calibration and pots nicely!

[Salas]

Great with the cal manual, thanks. I had read somewhere it can go closer tolerance if tweaked a bit, can't remember if it was here or on some blog that a guy stated he managed it more precise. He had some excel with numbers too to show even. Food for when fully reviewed by Dave the different probes continuity gets better or not test and the tweak trimpots effectiveness to better spec or not thing.

[Marvin]

And now I found the full schematics... again, some random clicks to generate points to enable download from baidu

http://bsd.ee/~olev/FLUKE_17B_schematics.pdf

So an answer to Dave - it's based on FS9721-LP3 chipset - data sheet @ http://www.everestpacific.com/db/photo/FS9721_LP3-DS-18_EN.pdf

And it even has RS232 output

Update: And it has backlight led driving builtin, with the pin exposed on the PCB just need to add resistor and LED (if the LCD has space for it - I just ordered mine from DX yesterday so don't know if there is space for a LED on the LCD display). And the HOLD button works as backlight controller button when pressed for 2 sec.

[ToddFun]

Update: And it has backlight led driving builtin, with the pin exposed on the PCB just need to add resistor and LED (if the LCD has space for it - I just ordered mine from DX yesterday so don't know if there is space for a LED on the LCD display). And the HOLD button works as backlight controller button when pressed for 2 sec.

So why on earth did they not include the backlight? It couldn't have cost that much to add a backlight if it has all that already. Cheap Asses!

I think if Fluke had added just a few extras like better probes, latching buzzer, backlight and Fluke touch hold for the $99 then this meter would take the hobby world by storm.  I sure hope Dave gives us a full review so people know if the meter is functionally sound.

[retiredcaps]

I think if Fluke had added just a few extras like better probes, latching buzzer, backlight and Fluke touch hold for the $99 then this meter would take the hobby world by storm.

For people in the USA, you can get a lot of used Fluke multimeters easily for $100 on ebay.  I have seen the following go for $100 +/- 10.  I'll list only the True RMS models with backlight, latching buzzer, usually TL75 leads and touch hold.

Fluke 87, 87 III, 87V, 85 III, 177, 179 and 87IV.

The Fluke 87V takes a bit of luck to get for $100, but it can be done with some patience.  The original 87 seems to go for $100 regularly nowadays so there is no need for anyone in the USA to buy a 17B.

And yes, I have gotten 3 of the above for under $100 with one of the above going for $40.  I have also gotten a few more models for good deals as well.

For the rest of the world, it is much harder to get a good deal on Fluke multimeters because many USA sellers won't ship internationally or ask way too much for shipping/handling (including shipping to Canada).  For those people, the 17B might make sense, but as many people have pointed out, there is a lot of competition in that space.

PS.  Thanks for spending the $100 so we can all benefit from your contribution.

edit: If a backlight is not required, then the Fluke 27/FM is a good hobby multimeter especially for around the $20 to $30 mark (going price on ebay).

[ToddFun]

Sure, I was glad to pitch in.

I was really hoping it was going to get a glowing report from Dave for the $99 hobby range because I was thinking of getting more of these as gifts and to donate to a school. I have several Flukes, even the 87V, and have been ah-struck since I first laid my hands on one back in my college days.

If the 17B was just as inspiring with high quality and reliability I would love to introduce as many young up-an-coming electronics kids to some new $99 Fluke DMMs.  I know it might sound strange but I like meters, they were the first thing to help lift that magic vale and let you see what was going on inside electronic circuits and the Fluke DMM was my favorite lab tool in those early college days.

Flukes have a spot in my heart but I don't want that spoiled by some cheap Chinese built DMMs even if they are Fluke so I, like others, value Dave's opinion.  Dave knows multimeters like nobody I have ever known. I guess that is what comes with years of buying and selling multimeters as a hobby.

[EEVblog]

I know it might sound strange but I like meters, they were the first thing to help lift that magic vale and let you see what was going on inside electronic circuits and the Fluke DMM was my favorite lab tool in those early college days.

You are not alone here, I think half the people on this form have some form of mulitmeter fettish! 

Flukes have a spot in my heart but I don't want that spoiled by some cheap Chinese built DMMs even if they are Fluke so I, like others, value Dave's opinion.

I like the 17B, it's a top quality meter for the price point. But of course has poor bang-per-buck. But that's the same with every Fluke meter. You don't buy a Fluke if you want bang-per-buck, you buy it for the build quality, reliability, support, and confidence the name brings.

Dave.

[EEVblog]

edit: If a backlight is not required, then the Fluke 27/FM is a good hobby multimeter especially for around the $20 to $30 mark (going price on ebay).

The 27 is an awesome meter if you don't mind the size.
Phenomenal battery life.

Dave.

[EEVblog]

What happened to this one: 
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FLUKE-27-FM-MULTIMETER-27-/120663477839?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c181a8e4f#ht_4975wt_1163



Dave.

[baljemmett]

What happened to this one: 
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FLUKE-27-FM-MULTIMETER-27-/120663477839?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c181a8e4f#ht_4975wt_1163

... somehow I knew which outfit was selling that before I clicked the link.  Looks like it'd only take a moderate bit of international shipping to turn the "for parts or not working" into "in parts and not working"!

[firewalker]

... somehow I knew which outfit was selling that before I clicked the link.  Looks like it'd only take a moderate bit of international shipping to turn the "for parts or not working" into "in parts and not working"!

I guess everyone knew... I believe they are buying stuff directly from the Israeli army. The 27 above may had an encounter with a tank. 

Alexander.

[Monkeh]

So an answer to Dave - it's based on FS9721-LP3 chipset

Interesting. Those chips are known for horrific autoranging, but the Fluke seems reasonably quick.

[Salas]

Update: And it has backlight led driving builtin, with the pin exposed on the PCB just need to add resistor and LED (if the LCD has space for it - I just ordered mine from DX yesterday so don't know if there is space for a LED on the LCD display). And the HOLD button works as backlight controller button when pressed for 2 sec.

So why on earth did they not include the backlight? It couldn't have cost that much to add a backlight if it has all that already. Cheap Asses!

I think if Fluke had added just a few extras like better probes, latching buzzer, backlight and Fluke touch hold for the $99 then this meter would take the hobby world by storm.  I sure hope Dave gives us a full review so people know if the meter is functionally sound.

They don't even let it retail officially outside China not to undercut their other models, imagine if they would fully feature it too. They are just targeting different world markets with different average spending budgets, projecting their build quality and brand name weight as spearheads IMHO. Up sale is the name of the game in their scheme, obviously. I wouldn't be surprised if the USA ones are just baptized by few last moves like cal and packaging in USA when produced in same China factory, plus eligible for the support and full warranty.

[SeanB]

Backlight and better probes with better buzzer are for the V2 one, which will come after Fluke sees how the market is in accepting this one. They might be wary about cannibalising the low end of the international market if they make the cheap Chinese entry level one too good and it gets wanted in the higher price markets.

[T4P]

After all fluke is famous for up sale ... remember the Fluke 87-4? That ended up as the 187/189
As well as danaher shotgunning the Tektronix TX1/3/5 after acquisition of Tek and that ended up as the 183/185 except being way more expensive

[JoannaK]

What happened to this one: 
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FLUKE-27-FM-MULTIMETER-27-/120663477839?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c181a8e4f#ht_4975wt_1163

... somehow I knew which outfit was selling that before I clicked the link.  Looks like it'd only take a moderate bit of international shipping to turn the "for parts or not working" into "in parts and not working"!

That's convinient for Dave.. He can do combined Mailbag and teardown without using any screwdriver at all.

[T4P]

Dave, can you open up your 87v once again and let me know the MOV's specs? 
Thanks 

[redline]

absolute newb here.
Was very interested in the review and a the product as a possible upgrade from my first multimeter($20 supercheap special i think). But after watching the review i think i would be better going for something non-fluke and more bang-for-buck.
I do a little bit of tinkering, hobby and auto electrics stuff but pretty much only primitive stuff so dont need anything fancy. come to think of it ive only really used continuity testing and voltage testing on my current meter. Any suggestions for a basic(cheap) one ?

[Salas]

UT61E easily.

[samgab]

Yeah, I agree, UT61E. I've got the Fluke 17b, and I'm happy with it. But I didn't know about the UT61E (note, the "E", not the A, B, C, D, etc) when I got the 17b. For the price, and feature for feature, some of the deal makers for the UT61E, IMO, are:
Basic DCV accuracy: ±(0.1% +2 counts) VS ±(0.5% +3 counts) on the 17b.
22,000 count, vs 4,000 on the 17b.
46 segment bargraph "analogue" part on the screen.
Has Peak hold, Min/Max capture. 17b doesn't.
It is True RMS. 17b is not.
Has basic data output/PC connectivity, comes with RS232 cable, and can connect with USB cable. 17b has no connectivity.
DC mA and uA accuracy is ±(0.5% +10 counts) vs ±(1.5% +3 counts) on the 17b.
The continuity buzzer and auto-ranging on the UT61E are lightning fast, unlike other iterations of the UT61_.

Advantages the 17b has:
Temperature function.
Resistance accuracy ±(0.5% +2 counts) across most of the range, vs best accuracy of ±(0.5% +10 counts) on the UT61E
DC A accuracy is ±(1.5% +3 counts) vs ±(1.2% +50 counts) on the UT61E.
Neither have a backlight.
"Fluke" branding... Is this an advantage? Not sure, considering it's made in China... can it be considered a "true" Fluke, the same as the ones that are made in USA and have a lifetime warranty? Probably not.

[EDIT: forgot to mention, the UT61E is rated (they claim) to conform to CAT. III 1000V & CAT. IV 600V, compared to the 17b's CAT. I 1000V, CAT. II 600V, and CAT III 300V.]

Given the choice today, now that I know about the UT61E, I'd pick that rather than the 17b. In fact, I think I'll get a UT61E as well, "for good measure"... excuse the pun.

[EDIT again: Also, for about USD56 and free shipping, almost half the price of the 17b, it's really a no brainer. http://bit.ly/OfbpcD

[T4P]

You forgot to talk about capacitance, the UT61E has quick capacitance at least according to what i test (10mF)
as the 17B only has 100uF (and in my experience the ones with only 100uF are slow as molasses, i guess i have a meter with the same chipset)

And yes, it's not a true fluke without lifetime warranty 

[Salas]

Having both I am sure that the Fluke has the better build quality by some substantial margin, has a real holster,  true input protection to spec. Feels definitely more rugged when holding and using it. Has the big digits, and one shift button only. So its best for the tool box, its the one I would check the lower energy mains rigs with. Could be more accurate for AC, but lets see with its trimmers. UT61E has notable speed and accuracy, also does very well for capacitors, shows near to my Tonghui LCR fast. Its a shouting bargain and its best place is on the hobbyist electronics bench. Only if we could shut up 61E's beeping with every switch positioning.

[T4P]

At least the beeping sounds pleasant, unlike the BK DMM dave reviewed.
Well thing is, somebody lent me a 17b and i did not like it at all! The quality is slightly better in comparison with the UT61E, but it's just unlike a true fluke!
And i don't like a holster, i prefer a integrated one because it's annoying to have to remove the snug fitting holster when changing batteries or fuses, well,
the UT61D dropped by Dave pretty much can go through a few more times

But the best thing is ... it's only half the price

If any the best 100buck meter IMHO is the Sanwa CD772! full HRC fuses and True RMS ... RD700 and the PC500a with 0.08% accuracy

Ask me which one i will rather live with ... obvious one.

[ToddFun]

@samgab, I really like the pros you point out about the UT61E...

Basic DCV accuracy: ±(0.1% +2 counts) VS ±(0.5% +3 counts) on the 17b.
22,000 count, vs 4,000 on the 17b.
46 segment bargraph "analogue" part on the screen.
Has Peak hold, Min/Max capture. 17b doesn't.
It is True RMS. 17b is not.
Has basic data output/PC connectivity, comes with RS232 cable, and can connect with USB cable. 17b has no connectivity.
DC mA and uA accuracy is ±(0.5% +10 counts) vs ±(1.5% +3 counts) on the 17b.
The continuity buzzer and auto-ranging on the UT61E are lightning fast, unlike other iterations of the UT61_.
rated (they claim) to conform to CAT. III 1000V & CAT. IV 600V, compared to the 17b's CAT. I 1000V, CAT. II 600V, and CAT III 300V.]
USD56 and free shipping, almost half the price of the 17b, it's really a no brainer. http://bit.ly/OfbpcD

But I can can also recall the 3 minutes of Dave's UNI-T build quality review in the $100 shootout starting at 32:09



It was not so good on build quality and if it don't work what does it matter if it "could" do those things when it can't because it is broke. I think build quility and reliability has to come first with just about any tool or you can't depend on the tool to work. But those other things do matter and the price of the UT61E really has my attention for now.