Author Topic: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown  (Read 74363 times)

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Offline marmad

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #100 on: November 20, 2012, 12:41:05 am »
I heard the new official firmware is another 3 weeks away.

They will either need to substantially fix the wave moving/resizing 'problem'  - or add at least one smashing new feature - to get me to upgrade.  01.00.05 seems to allow trial options to go on indefinitely  :)
 

Offline branadic

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #101 on: November 20, 2012, 06:41:02 am »
Update was successful. It seems that the boot problem is now gone, but the options also. I can't select the menu "installed" and deep memory with 56Mpts is no longer available :(
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Offline marmad

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #102 on: November 20, 2012, 09:50:41 am »
I can't select the menu "installed"...

You mean it's completely grayed out?
 

Offline zibadun

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #103 on: November 20, 2012, 12:20:25 pm »
Thanks, I today received the latest firmware (00.00.01.00.05) and will update tonight.

my US dealer didn't know about the new firmware and said I need to ask rigolna for the update.  Contacted Rigol and got no response. There is no firmware under product downloads either.    |O   So I'm curious who did you go through branadic?
 

Offline marmad

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #104 on: November 20, 2012, 01:07:31 pm »
my US dealer didn't know about the new firmware and said I need to ask rigolna for the update.  Contacted Rigol and got no response. There is no firmware under product downloads either.    |O   So I'm curious who did you go through branadic?

It's not really 'new' firmware - it's the last release (already installed on my scope when I got it about 4 weeks ago). You bought your scope a couple of weeks after I did - I would think you would have 01.00.05 already installed, no?
 

Offline zibadun

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #105 on: November 20, 2012, 01:28:00 pm »
It's not really 'new' firmware - it's the last release (already installed on my scope when I got it about 4 weeks ago). You bought your scope a couple of weeks after I did - I would think you would have 01.00.05 already installed, no?

it was on a backorder and finally arrived last Friday.  The certificate has June 15th date and the levels are the same as branadic had (02 software). May be I should try calling them again...
 

Offline marmad

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #106 on: November 20, 2012, 01:34:17 pm »
it was on a backorder and finally arrived last Friday.  The certificate has June 15th date and the levels are the same as branadic had (02 software). May be I should try calling them again...

And you checked extended Sys Info (as mentioned in prev.msg) with F7-F6-F7-Utility key combo? Well, if you do have the older version, I think branadic (or anyone else with a copy) could provide you with the firmware, because I don't think Rigol locks them to specific serial numbers (at least they didn't with the 1000E series).
 

Offline branadic

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #107 on: November 20, 2012, 06:51:49 pm »
You mean it's completely grayed out? [/quote]

Yes, that is exactly what I meant and memory is selectable only up to 14Mpts.
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Offline drieg

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #108 on: November 20, 2012, 11:12:01 pm »
Please remember, if you have 00.00.01.00.02, you have to do firmware update during boot process only. Doing it from the menu / normal operation will ruin some important data. DO NOT DO IT!
Bricked Rigol? This thread might be of any help.
 

Offline branadic

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #109 on: November 21, 2012, 05:11:04 am »
Please remember, if you have 00.00.01.00.02, you have to do firmware update during boot process only. Doing it from the menu / normal operation will ruin some important data. DO NOT DO IT!

Was this adressed to me? If yes, I remembered that.
I have to add that all options have expired before I updated the firmware. Maybe this is the reason why menu "option --> installed"  is grayed out?
Fluke 8050A | Prema 5000 | Prema 5017 SC | Advantest R6581D | GenRad 1434-G | Datron 4000A | Tek 2465A | VNWA2.x with TCXO upgrade and access to: Keysight 3458A, Keithley 2002, Prema 5017 SC, 34401A, 34410A, Keithley 2182A, HDO6054, Keysight 53230A and other goodies at work
 

Offline zibadun

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #110 on: November 22, 2012, 12:25:24 am »
Thanks to branadic, drieg and marmad my 2072 is now running the 05 version of software. The trial options did not go away (they were not expired prior to the upgrade), but I'm getting into habit of turning off the scope to conserve trial minutes.
 

Offline billclay

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #111 on: November 22, 2012, 07:20:52 am »
...I'm getting into habit of turning off the scope to conserve trial minutes.

Does the trial time only count down while the scope has power, or has power and "soft off"?
 

Offline marmad

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #112 on: November 22, 2012, 07:22:30 am »
Does the trial time only count down while the scope has power, or has power and "soft off"?

Only when booted up and running.
 

Offline tom66

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #113 on: November 22, 2012, 08:19:09 am »
Does it have a clock battery -- would removing it reset trials?
 

Offline marmad

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #114 on: November 22, 2012, 10:10:39 am »
Does it have a clock battery -- would removing it reset trials?

Well, I certainly wouldn't want to void my 3 year warranty on an $850 item on the off chance that it might work - but I'm fine if someone else wants to give it a try  :)  But it does seem rather a simple (and thus preventable by Rigol) solution.
 

Offline branadic

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #115 on: November 26, 2012, 06:36:42 am »
Are there pictures from the inside of the DS4xxx or DS6xxx available? Someone out there with a teardown?
Fluke 8050A | Prema 5000 | Prema 5017 SC | Advantest R6581D | GenRad 1434-G | Datron 4000A | Tek 2465A | VNWA2.x with TCXO upgrade and access to: Keysight 3458A, Keithley 2002, Prema 5017 SC, 34401A, 34410A, Keithley 2182A, HDO6054, Keysight 53230A and other goodies at work
 

Offline tom66

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #116 on: November 26, 2012, 07:19:25 am »
The best we're going to get is the declassification diagrams showing the locations of the memory in the device.
http://www.rigolna.com/download/501G00000001OMwIAM/

Interestingly, there appears to be an LA SRAM for the DS1000D series... so maybe that's why people haven't been able to add digital features.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 07:20:59 am by tom66 »
 

Offline Sparky

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #117 on: December 02, 2012, 09:13:26 am »
Help!

I've just tried to update my DS2072 with the 01.00.05 firmware.  I attempted to update during the boot process as described here, but was unsuccessful.  I now have the system stuck at 60% update...

Please see my post here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/product-reviews-photos-and-discussion/first-impressions-and-review-of-the-rigol-ds2072-ds2000-series-dso/msg167744/#msg167744

Hope someone can recommend a next step.
 

Offline Sparky

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #118 on: December 02, 2012, 10:03:24 am »
Luckily, I managed to get the firmware updated, but lost trial options.  Details are in the thread I mentioned above.
 

Offline Sparky

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #119 on: December 02, 2012, 11:16:26 am »
Please remember, if you have 00.00.01.00.02, you have to do firmware update during boot process only. Doing it from the menu / normal operation will ruin some important data. DO NOT DO IT!

@drieg, could you elaborate on "ruin some important data"? 

As per my recent posts, I could not get the boot update to work initially, and as I then had a failed update from GUI before I got the system working, I've now lost the trial options.  I'm concerned that my system factory calibration (not self-cal), and possibly other info, is valid/intact.  My serial number remains correct.

Will appreciate your comments.
 

Offline drieg

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #120 on: December 02, 2012, 01:08:04 pm »
Please remember, if you have 00.00.01.00.02, you have to do firmware update during boot process only. Doing it from the menu / normal operation will ruin some important data. DO NOT DO IT!

@drieg, could you elaborate on "ruin some important data"? 

As per my recent posts, I could not get the boot update to work initially, and as I then had a failed update from GUI before I got the system working, I've now lost the trial options.  I'm concerned that my system factory calibration (not self-cal), and possibly other info, is valid/intact.  My serial number remains correct.

Will appreciate your comments.
Check my answer here.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 01:24:52 pm by drieg »
Bricked Rigol? This thread might be of any help.
 

Offline branadic

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #121 on: December 06, 2012, 07:15:40 pm »
I heard the new official firmware is another 3 weeks away.

Dave.

What about the new firmware? Is there anything official yet?
Fluke 8050A | Prema 5000 | Prema 5017 SC | Advantest R6581D | GenRad 1434-G | Datron 4000A | Tek 2465A | VNWA2.x with TCXO upgrade and access to: Keysight 3458A, Keithley 2002, Prema 5017 SC, 34401A, 34410A, Keithley 2182A, HDO6054, Keysight 53230A and other goodies at work
 

Offline srt8-in-largo

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #122 on: January 07, 2013, 09:42:23 am »
56Mpts at full speed?! Many people here thought it was a gimmick ... nope it's not. Seems like DDR2 was a good idea, instead of using slow SDRAM and then there's DDR3 ...

Just to clarify, DDR2 uses SDRAM. I suspect this to be a typo and should read "... instead of using slow SRAM..."
 

Offline tinhead

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #123 on: June 27, 2013, 04:33:09 am »
I don't fully agree that, because the DS2000 series comes with "reduced noise" (~500µVpp in the smallest vertical diversion), what is contrary to what you've mentioned about MXT2001 and it's higher noise compared to the ADC08DL502. By the way, we may can expect that the MXT2001 is not just pin compatible, but exactly the same core out of the same asian factory?

You could well be right. I hadn't looked through the specs of the MXT2001 myself - only heard about it from others. A quick check of a couple of stats vs. the ADC08DL502:

SINAD Signal-to-Noise Plus Distortion Ratio (Typ):
ADC08DL502:  AIN = 248 MHz @ -0.5dBFS 47.6 dB
MXT2001:      AIN = 248 MHz @ -0.5dBFS 46 db

SNR Signal-to-Noise Ratio (Typ):
ADC08DL502:    AIN = 248 MHz @ -0.5dBFS 48.5 dB
MXT2001:       AIN = 248 MHz @ -0.5dBFS 47 dB

it is for sure MXT2001, ADC08D502 looks complettly different (i have them here and they looks exact the same as ADC08D500 on the picture), where MXT2002 in Owon looks like the unknown ADC used in Rigol. Just check the markers on picture.

Antoher confirmation is the fact that Owon is using now NS/TI ADCs insted of RuiFeng, Rigol is bigger so probobaly RuiFeng was happy to kick out Owon.


I don't fully agree that, because the DS2000 series comes with "reduced noise"

which as we know today didn't mean anything, others (e.g. Tekway, Hameg) have similar noise level on 2mV and 5mV,
Rigol simply added these extra ranges. Sure, they would be not possible with the AD8370/LHM6552 as used in DS1000E,
and it would get distorted too much by 10 interleaved ADCs, this is now complettly different with LMH6518 and one (die) ADC.

So a littlebit looks like Rigol learned from Hameg that is it enough to advertise "low / reduced noise"^^
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Offline marmad

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Re: EEVblog #360 - Rigol DS2000 Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #124 on: June 27, 2013, 04:48:50 am »
it is for sure MXT2001, ADC08D502 looks complettly different (i have them here and they looks exact the same as ADC08D500 on the picture), where MXT2002 in Owon looks like the unknown ADC used in Rigol. Just check the markers on picture.

Sorry, this doesn't prove it definitively - markings change on dies sometimes.

Quote
Antoher confirmation is the fact that Owon is using now NS/TI ADCs insted of RuiFeng, Rigol is bigger so probobaly RuiFeng was happy to kick out Owon.

Again - this doesn't confirm anything. In fact, saying Owon is using a much more expensive chip in much cheaper DSOs could be an argument as well for Rigol using an NS/TI in more expensive DSOs - perhaps it proves that RuiFeng's ADCs or delivery are unreliable.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 05:39:06 am by marmad »
 


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