Author Topic: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review  (Read 19160 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« on: November 13, 2012, 06:56:00 am »


Dave.
 

Offline Hypernova

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Re: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2012, 01:42:54 pm »
I agree with Dave, that is a shit load of cash for essentially the zone trigger and a second arb gen. Versus the MSO version of the 3000X it's a poor buy.
 

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Re: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2012, 03:31:36 pm »
it's very expansive, looks cool, but i don't like too much the touchscreen option....
 

Offline lewis

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Re: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2012, 04:55:13 pm »
OOOOOOOOOOOhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Proper wank material!

My local Agilent chap is letting me demo one on Thursday!

Incidentally, Agilent have just released a firmware update (yesterday) for the 3000X series that apparently includes AM, FM and FSK modulation on the wavegen option, as well as addressing other things. Downloading it now and about to install.

Documentation here: http://www.home.agilent.com/upload/cmc_upload/All/Agilent_2000X_3000X_Series_Oscilloscope_Readme_0220.pdf
Download here: http://www.home.agilent.com/agilent/software.jspx?ckey=2014548&lc=eng&cc=GB&nid=-33573.970738&id=2014548
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 05:15:53 pm by lewis »
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Offline free_electron

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Re: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2012, 05:00:27 pm »
The probesare actually made by a company called PMK in germany.

http://www.pmk-gmbh.com/en/products/Probes_Microline_2_5_mm_34/PML_High_Z_Series_54.html

the 4000 is a replacement for the 7000. the same feet are used in the 7000 machines. avoids the scope tipping over if you punch a button.
The zone trigger requires an additional trigger asic. They downscaled that from the 9000 series. there you can have up to 16 zones and do really wacky shit...

 
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Offline LaurenceW

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Re: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2012, 08:46:57 pm »
Can you hear that silence right at the end of the vid? That's the sound of hearts stopping over at Agilent, of the guys that leant Dave that 'scope to toss off. In mean - toss about.

Really, Dave, was Mrs Dave there with a couple of baseball gloves, ready to catch it? :)

How long before Rigol come up with an equivalent? I imagine they are working on it...
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2012, 10:21:15 pm »
4000 is a replacement for the 7000. the same feet are used in the 7000 machines. avoids the scope tipping over if you punch a button.

That's what I assumed, but Agilent have told me they are not discontinuing the 7000 series.

Quote
The zone trigger requires an additional trigger asic. They downscaled that from the 9000 series. there you can have up to 16 zones and do really wacky shit...

I did not see one in the teardown?

Dave.
 

Offline Shas-O

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Re: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2012, 10:26:22 pm »
The fact that the options are almost twice that as the 3000x series pisses me off no end.

Its the same situation on the 9000 series, £1200 for i2c,spi decode, I can get a usb logic analyser for all protocols for £150, and I can run it on the windows based 9000. What was agilents response by the cheap one!

We used to be pretty much agilent only, now I'm buying Yokogawa stuff, they have some nice features but maybe not the grunt. Maybe agilent will come back with some bettter prices :)

I do like the zone trigger and segmented memory though.

Dec
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2012, 10:29:55 pm »
The fact that the options are almost twice that as the 3000x series pisses me off no end.
Its the same situation on the 9000 series, £1200 for i2c,spi decode, I can get a usb logic analyser for all protocols for £150, and I can run it on the windows based 9000. What was agilents response by the cheap one!
We used to be pretty much agilent only, now I'm buying Yokogawa stuff, they have some nice features but maybe not the grunt. Maybe agilent will come back with some bettter prices :)

This scope is aimed a those customers where money is no object. $20K for a scope and a few K for each option is chicken feed to them, and they know it.
It's filling yet another market niche.

Dave.
 

Offline Shas-O

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Re: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2012, 10:59:36 pm »
We have quite a healthy budget and buy quite a lot of Agilent kit, Last year bought 4 3000x series scopes and the 9000 amongst other stuff ,active probes etc, and thats just our little lab. If they made the options more interesting, finically, I'd upgrade all my scopes. For now we have to negotiate if we need to use the few installed features.

Don't get me wrong I think Agilent scopes are excellent they are just a bit to blatant about taking the piss.

Dec
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 11:03:29 pm by Shas-O »
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2012, 11:04:33 pm »
4000 is a replacement for the 7000. the same feet are used in the 7000 machines. avoids the scope tipping over if you punch a button.

That's what I assumed, but Agilent have told me they are not discontinuing the 7000 series.

Quote
The zone trigger requires an additional trigger asic. They downscaled that from the 9000 series. there you can have up to 16 zones and do really wacky shit...

I did not see one in the teardown?

Dave.
Seems to me that the hardware needed for zone trigger isn't that different from mask test, so the  capability is probably already in the 3000x asic. If you consider that an intensity-graded display is effectively plotting realtime x/y pixels, all it needs need is either a few address comparators or a comparison bitmap to achieve the zone detection. 
The UI would be a pain without the touchscreen.
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Offline tom66

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Re: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2012, 11:37:37 pm »
I think another reason they're doing 800x600 pixels only because they only have 256 levels from the ADC; there's no point (other than the UI clarity) in going for a greater resolution.

I'm curious about that touchscreen controller. Looks a bit snazzy for what it's doing. Many tablets use capacitive touch screens, and they don't have half as much as that. I also suspect the touchscreen controller uses USB; it makes sense, I suppose.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2012, 04:35:44 am »
From the touchscreen board it is available with RS232 ( 5V output) or USB, probably via a solder link. Though I suspect it is USB here.
 

Offline grenert

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Re: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2012, 05:14:10 am »
One thing I notice with the 4000 vs. 7000 display is the 7000 has higher resolution (XGA 1024x768) and 256 intensity levels versus 64 in the 2000/3000/4000.
The 7000 also specs a noise figure of 0.5% or 300uV, while I don't see noise specs for the 4000.
 

Offline mkissin

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Re: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2012, 06:14:10 am »
I'm not 100% certain it's new with this firmware release, but the About screen now includes a "Start 30 day trial" button that enables all of the soft licenses for 30 days.

It's possible that this might allow people to begin rolling their dates back to have all the licenses permanently but I haven't confirmed that.
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2012, 09:50:58 am »
Is that how much it is?

I haven't seen a good, concise price list vs features list anywhere.

 

Offline ejeffrey

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Re: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2012, 04:50:18 pm »
Pricelist:

http://www.home.agilent.com/en/pc-2198434/oscilloscope?pm=SC&nid=-33095.0&cc=US&lc=eng

Starts at $5600 for the 2ch/200MHz, up over $20k for the top of the line.  Click on one of the models to see the option prices.
 

Offline timelessbeing

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Re: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2012, 04:57:11 pm »
I noticed that on most digital scopes you can only change the timescale in increments. (sometimes large ones) Analog scopes are smooth so you can fine tune it to exactly what you want. Is this a hardware limitation, or just UI wankiness? Are there any scope that scale smoothly?

I hate how they put those rotatary encoders on everything now. Especially my car stereo volume knob.
 

Offline nack

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Re: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2012, 05:05:16 pm »
Personally I find the discrete timebase adjustment a true feature, as the divisions are either multiples of 1,2,5. This actually makes counting divisions and estimating wave-shape length very convenient. 
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2012, 05:25:50 pm »
Digital scopes do usually have a fine/vernier adjust for timebase, sometimes hidden in a menu - it is often useful to set it to, for example, one ot two bit times per division.

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Offline mcscope

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Re: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2012, 05:34:52 pm »
On all the newer Agilent scope you just push the main horizontal scale knob to go into fine mode. This is true of the vertical knob and some other knobs also. Makes getting into and out of fine simple and quick.
 

Offline _Sin

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Re: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2012, 10:08:10 pm »
Agilent's 'scope tip of the month' this month is basically 'Buy a 4000x'.

Stretching the definition of 'tip' somewhat.
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Offline marmad

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Re: EEVBlog #383 - Agilent 4000X Oscilloscope Review
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2013, 11:44:29 pm »
@Dave - In your review of the 4000X, it seems you missed (or perhaps you saw it, but just didn't video it) the funny little demo feature Agilent put in to simulate slower update rates while looking at the Demo Glitch. It's demonstrated in this new online article from Agilent.

Edit: It's about 1/3 of the way into the video - unfortunately, the video isn't timestamped.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 11:58:29 pm by marmad »
 


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