EEVblog #390 - Mantis Elite Microscope Review

[DigiGal]

http://www.visioneng.us/mantis-3d-inspection-microscope-landing.php

Vision Engineering has a summer special in the US on the Matis Compact for $1380, linked above.  I do quite a bit of SMD rework and my eyes are just not what they used to be.  I know my employer wouldn't be keen on this expense so I'm considering springing for a Mantis Compact myself.  Granted it has a smaller viewing window and only one lens at a time but would the Compact be a wise choice long term as a personal purchase?  I would plan to pick up the available 8x lens down the road and don't think it would be a big deal to change the lens as needed.  I do wear eyeglasses (progressive lenses) and was considering a stereo microscope but really don't think one would work well for me.  I'm currently using a magnifier lamp and also use a Donegan OptiSIGHT VISOR pictured below but would like a better solution. The Mantis Elite looks ideal but as a personal purchase is really hard to justify.  The Mantis Compact is easier for me to accept but it doesn't seem like as many people are using the Compact so I wonder if I'd regret the purchase wishing I'd stepped up to the Elite.  The Mantis line certainly looks like an ideal solution for me but they sure are expensive.

Are there any Mantis Compact users on board?  I'd really appreciate your feedback regarding the Mantis Compact for SMD work.


Donegan OptiSIGHT VISOR (3x, 4x, 5x power)

[DigiGal]

Followup; I took advantage of the summer promotion and added the Mantis Compact with 4x Objective to my bench last week.  Wow, real nice piece of gear, don't know how I got along without after only a week of use.  I built a work stage to raise the work up to the right height positioning the viewer in an optimal ergonomic position.  Stage is made it out of an aluminum box with a formica top and added a ground snap to it so it can be tied to the multi-point ESD grounding block via an extra 1 Meg ohm coil cord.

Edit to add a quick photo of the work stage I put together from materials on hand; its dimensions are 35cm W x 35cm D x 10cm H which works well for my bench setup.

[ben_r_]

Followup; I took advantage of the summer promotion and added the Mantis Compact with 4x Objective to my bench last week.  Wow, real nice piece of gear, don't know how I got along without after only a week of use.  I built a work stage to raise the work up to the right height positioning the viewer in an optimal ergonomic position.  Stage is made it out of an aluminum box with a formica top and added a ground snap to it so it can be tied to the multi-point ESD grounding block via an extra 1 Meg ? coil cord.

Nice. Yea I have been kicking around jumping on that summer promotion myself so what was your total cost for the setup? Also do you feel the 4X mag was enough? Not feeling like you should have gone with the 6X?

[DigiGal]

Got it direct from Vision Engineering in New Milford CT, no tax so it came to $1380 plus shipping.  When you mail in the registration card they'll send you a set of free lens covers.

You won't be disappointed if you decide to pick one up.  Yes 4x is plenty!  It provides enough magnification and nice working distance.  6x or now 8x for compact is always an option down the line but I don't feel either is necessary at this point.

[Noir_47]

Hello.
FY.

[st]

If you are curious about the insides of a mantis, check ebay item 301005497455.
This is the only photo I know, since Dave was too chicken to open the thing up.
<http://i.ebayimg.com/t/VISION-ENGINEERING-MANTIS-MICROSCOPE-HEAD-/00/s/MTA2NlgxNjAw/$(KGrHqJ,!pwFCss9RTL9BQz7KT0cnw~~60_57.JPG>

You can see the diagonal beam splitting mirror, the rear mirror to the right, just a hint of the top mirror in the background.

US Patent Optical magnifying apparatus US 5477385 A seems to apply to the mantis units.
<https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pages/US5477385-1.png>

I fully expected it to be simple - despite the high price, but at the same time I am somewhat surprised.


Dave, maybe next time you can try not to be such a sissy if someone tells you "don't take it apart"?
Or perhaps Mike has to do a proper video teardown if you are not man enough?

ST

[EEVblog]

Dave, maybe next time you can try not to be such a sissy if someone tells you "don't take it apart"?

They told me I could take it apart if I really wanted to, but that it would likely require realignment using their production jig or some such.

[st]

I would guess that the grey cover on top gives access to alignment of the top mirror, so one eye output  can be aligned relative to the other.
In the ebay photo it looks like the eye distance knob also tilts the top mirror via a linkage.
Taking off that grey top cover should not upset the alignment, that just wouldn't make any sense.

I'm still curious how the right-side-up optics work (block 20 in the patent), the thing is missing on the ebay auction and I haven't got my mantis yet.
Probably a prism or something like that?

It would be interesting to shoot a laser pointer through the objective and see how it comes out.

ST

P.S.: You need to get an AP130-A for your JBC.

[SeanB]

Taking precision optics apart and putting them back together and having the same alignment is not easy. Even tightening order, torque and temperature of the assembly area will distort the casings enough to misalign them again. Let again now you have relaxed the tensions built up in the housing that was restrained by the other half that now is free to move parts around.

There is a reason precision optical alignment jigs include a half ton or so of granite beams as a part of the unit.

[st]

Taking precision optics apart and putting them back together and having the same alignment is not easy. Even tightening order, torque and temperature of the assembly area will distort the casings enough to misalign them again. Let again now you have relaxed the tensions built up in the housing that was restrained by the other half that now is free to move parts around.

There is a reason precision optical alignment jigs include a half ton or so of granite beams as a part of the unit.

Did you look at the ebay photo? It looks far less precision than I expected (all plastic etc.). Obviously x20 doesn't require the same precision as a higher magnification microscope.

I understand your concerns, but the same applies to most of the electronics teardowns (cal potentially lost, risk of damage, etc.).
It's just not a good enough reason for me to not have at least a cautious look, especially given the fact that Dave would encounter substantially more goodwill and understanding than any of us if the worst should happen an the unit require realignment at the factory.

It's just so unlike Dave not to go there, who knows, perhaps we will still see more on this topic in the future.

ST

[EEVblog]

I understand your concerns, but the same applies to most of the electronics teardowns (cal potentially lost, risk of damage, etc.).

Not even close.
Most cals are electronics of sort sort, and even the ones with pots, you have to deliberately poke at them and turn them with a screwdriver to screw them up.
It is very rare that a pure electronics product needs a re-cal after a teardown. The only example I can think of would be a really high end spectrum analyser that (in theory) might have it's noise floor changed if you don't seal the RF gaskets back up right. But even then, it's just "down in the noise", it's not going to put the thing out of whack.

It's just not a good enough reason for me to not have at least a cautious look, especially given the fact that Dave would encounter substantially more goodwill and understanding than any of us if the worst should happen an the unit require realignment at the factory.
It's just so unlike Dave not to go there, who knows, perhaps we will still see more on this topic in the future.

I asked them, they said it is unlikely I'd see the most interesting stuff without a reasonable possibility of stuffing up the alignment, which would require expensive shipping back to the UK from Australia and back again. It may or may not be true, but I believed them. After being specifically told that, I didn't want to be a dick and screw it up, I bet you would have done the same thing.
They said they would look into an old/broken unit I could have for a full teardown, but nothing became of that.
You can tear your one down for us all to enjoy, we are looking forward to it. Feel free to say "I told you so". But that also works both ways.

[st]

I have a feeling you are slightly out of your comfort zone with optics and that stopped you, which is a shame, since the things we _don't_ fully understand are the most interesting to investigate.

Let's face it, that resistance calibrator you did recently, we both knew exactly what to expect and why. Sure it was still very interesting, and sure I would have looked into it just the same, but it's still "as expected". (By the way I wondered if perhaps the wirewound low value resistors were on high quality mica rather than a plastic card).

I had no idea how the insides of the mantis would look before I found that ebay picture. I expected some kind of heavy prism optics with lots of parts like a regular stereo microscope.

While looking for information about the mantis I saw this thing by Vision Engineering:
<http://www.nature.com/nbt/journal/v19/n5/images/nbt0501_487_I4.jpg>
The ISIS eyepieces have rotating discs inside to distribute the image to a larger exit pupil, not in a million years would I have imagined that. Isn't that just fascinating? (You'll have to look up the exact workings I don't understand well enough to explain).

Anyway, I still hope you'll do perhaps just a little bit more on the mantis one day. When I get mine I will make pictures if I see something interesting.

ST

[rolycat]

Like Dave, I'm afraid I'm too chicken to take my (original) Mantis apart, but it's actually not that difficult to see a good deal of the internal construction if you shine a light through the viewer while it's switched off.

Taking pictures is tricky, though, since it's dark in there and you can't use a flash. I've had a go.

This is a picture taken looking upwards into the viewer. You can see a large concave mirror on the roof of the microscope, and the spring-loaded adjuster at the right hand side. There is a blurred view of the octagonal beam splitter at the bottom of the picture. This sits in the middle of the body of the microscope:


This is a picture looking towards the rear and slightly downwards through the beam splitter. You can see another large mirror at the rear of the unit and there are more mirrors below:


There is a small circuit board at the bottom left of the main housing, but I couldn't get a shot of it.

The optics have more elements and look considerably more sophisticated than those shown in the patent diagram.

[st]

Wow, thanks!
This considerably pads out what I could see on the ebay photo.

One can see the differences to the mantis compact, for example in the eye distance adjust mechanics.
There are no apparent adjustment elements on the top mirror as I expected, but then the original mantis does not have the top access hatch like the new models, right?

Can you tell at all if the mirrors are plain or curved? From the ebay photo it looked like they were curved, but from your photos it almost looks like a flat mirror. I understand this may be tricky to tell through the viewing lens.

I guess the only mystery left is whatever goes between the beam splitter and the objective lens.
Where the camera goes on the cam model would also be very interesting.

FWIW I concur that taking the two case halves apart would achieve nothing, the pieces would just fall out. But maybe there is an easy way to take the front lens off and get a clear view inside, or perhaps one can see some more stuff from below.

These photos leave me again stunned at how large and yet simple looking those optics are compared to my stereo microscope.

I'm sure they are more complex than the patent suggests, but they are still easy to understand if you compare them for example to the Dynascope/Lynx with the rotating disc (also from vision engineering).

ST

[rolycat]

Wow, thanks!

My pleasure.

There are no apparent adjustment elements on the top mirror as I expected, but then the original mantis does not have the top access hatch like the new models, right?

Right, the original housing is split lengthways into left and right halves.

Can you tell at all if the mirrors are plain or curved? From the ebay photo it looked like they were curved, but from your photos it almost looks like a flat mirror. I understand this may be tricky to tell through the viewing lens.

Yes, the top mirror is significantly concave. The one at the rear is also concave as far as I can tell.

I guess the only mystery left is whatever goes between the beam splitter and the objective lens.

Mostly more mirrors, I think. There is another large mirror at a 45 degree angle pointing to the left beneath the beam splitter and a smaller one on the left wall of the housing. You can see bits of them in the second picture.

Where the camera goes on the cam model would also be very interesting.

FWIW I concur that taking the two case halves apart would achieve nothing, the pieces would just fall out. But maybe there is an easy way to take the front lens off and get a clear view inside, or perhaps one can see some more stuff from below.

I can't see an obvious way to remove the front lens. There is some fixed glass in the bottom just above the lens mount, but you can't see much looking up through it.

These photos leave me again stunned at how large and yet simple looking those optics are compared to my stereo microscope.

Using it is a real joy, the images are crystal clear and it is so comfortable to use.

I have 4x and 8x lenses on mine, and I don't need the 8x often - I was soldering a 0.65mm pitch MSOP IC yesterday and 4x was perfect.

It's also the only item in my lab which consistently interests non-techies - everyone who visits wants to play with it.

[st]

Thanks for the clarifications.

On second attempt I could make out the mirrors in the bottom according to your description and the D shaped hole where the optical path goes out of sight.

I have one with x4 and x8 lenses on next year's budget, already tried it and the picture is satisfactory to say the least. Too bad the higher magnifications are not really all that useful, at least on the universal stand.

ST

[SeanB]

Mantis is precision optics, but not anything like high precision. That would be something like an airborne range finder, which will give a good return pulse at 10km with a spot less than 50m wide at that range. Those were always difficult to align after rebuilding, it took a week or more to get it to a good enough state after you replaced the blown ruby inside and cleaned off all the powder that was then spread throughout the optical cavity. Those little popsicle stick sized pieces of ruby were extremely expensive.

[sdim]

I have found a low priced head and lens package .

Does the mantis need power supply to work?

If yes, can I use a typical power supply or I have to buy a mantis on?

[kayvee]

I have found a low priced head and lens package .

Does the mantis need power supply to work?

If yes, can I use a typical power supply or I have to buy a mantis on?

Power is only required for the illumination, and would differ if you have the original incandescent lamp version of the later LED type illumination, so best is to establish which type yours has.

[SeanB]

Power is only for illumination, you can use almost any 12V power supply to do that.

[VK3DRB]

I saw a Mantis on an auction site a couple of years ago. Perfect condition with multiple magnifications. Sold for $280!!!! I missed it by a week. I WAS SPEWING! It was a bargain even at $1500.

I have used one before and believe me, there is no better.

[Ingineer]

Power is only for illumination, you can use almost any 12V power supply to do that.

I know this is an old thread, but the Mantis Elite uses a 9V "wall wart" type supply, not 12V.

While I'm at it, I've been wondering how hard it would be to add a camera to my Mantis Elite.  It's obviously not the version with the included cam.  I did a partial teardown (mainly to clean my optics) and did not see an obvious location for the cam.  Does anyone here have the cam option who wouldn't mind doing a partial teardown?  It's pretty simple, and will not disturb any optical alignment.  First remove the glare shield (if equipped) by unsnapping it.  Then remove the 2 hex-head screws from the oval-ish top cover and lift it off.  You will then see 2 hex head screws that screw forward into the viewing hood on the front.  The best way to see these is to look at the head from behind.  Note: Do not take any of the 4 top-facing screws out, as these hold the top mirror in place, and that could disturb alignment.  Once the 2 screws are removed from the viewing hood, it will pivot forward and down away from the body.  The big rectangular glass "screen" optic is now free and will simply pull out of the body.  Be careful not to tilt the head forward or it could fall out, it's reasonably heavy!  I recommend you carefully pull this out so you can go wash it with warm soapy water.  The AR coating gets pretty dirty and is hard to clean while still normally installed, so this is a good thing anyway.  Once this glass is removed, you will have a clear view of all the interior components.  Some of mine were a little dusty, so I carefully cleaned them with a microfiber cloth.

I'll be happy to post pictures if anyone is interested.

-Phil

[EEVblog]

While I'm at it, I've been wondering how hard it would be to add a camera to my Mantis Elite.  It's obviously not the version with the included cam.

I was just wondering that myself today!

[Ingineer]

Yeah Dave, I was unimpressed with the apparently craptastic 1.3MP USB cam they put in there on their official (and pricey) model.  Ideally a 1080P cam capable of 60HZ that can directly drive HDMI monitors would be stellar.  Tiny board cams meeting these specs can be had for under $100 USD, so we just need to figure out the optical path and the mounting particulars.

-Phil

[EEVblog]

I'd be happy for some form of mount that clipped over the front window and got half usable results that way. After all, it works for the human eye.