Author Topic: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown  (Read 59035 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline swedeham

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 1
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2012, 03:32:56 am »
Very Interesting video since I have a GT 606D witch seem to be the same thing.
The tempsense and serial outport, I have sought after info before but could not find any,  but today  I  found plenty.
The tempsensor that works is a "lm35dz" 0-40 deg C, 0V is 0deg and then 10mV/degC. Hobbyking has it as a product "http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__11777__temperature_sensor_w_futaba_plug_.html"
My electronicsupplyer  "elfa.se" has it at half price if you buy 10+ . You may wanna put more than one sensor on your R/C model, ie BEC, motor, battpack .
The serial output seem to need a ttl-rs232 to USB converter "arduino product maybe" or mobile to PC cable (dumpsterdiving job) then you could use a software to view voltages and temperatures.
The software is "Logview"  "www.logview.info"

I just saw the video and found this info, so I have not tested anything yet, but the info seems ok .

ttl-rs232  post "http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1046318"

/Mats
 
 

Offline peter.mitchell

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1568
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2012, 09:49:06 am »
Half price! And not on any special sale and shipped from within the UK. No wonder they were out of stock.

But rememeber, HKs prices are crazy, i don't know how they do it, i buy my heatshrink, silicone wire, nylon screws and nuts from them just because they're cheap and reasonable quality.
 

Offline Things

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 224
  • Country: au
  • Laser Geek
    • NQLasers
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2012, 11:07:33 am »
I can also recommend the ECO6-10 from Hobbyking. It's Hobbyking branded, but Turnigy and HK are the same people, so they're basically identical. It's very similar in layout and components to the one Dave did this teardown on, but with more current handling in mind :)
 

Offline nixxon

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 314
  • Country: no
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2012, 10:23:28 pm »
I have a feeling that most laptops use NiCd battery packs, or at least those I have seen did. You probably don't need to balance NiCd packs, or it does not make that big difference as it does in lithium batteries, where unbalanced pack can lead to big fire easily.
NiCD batteries in laptops ... what, 10 years ago?

I'm pretty certain that laptops use Li ion or Lipo batteries.
till today they are still using 18650s 3s2p arrangement with individual discharging leads at least for a 7.4V system with about 4AH, not sure about the larger packs but probably 6.2AH if they are not cheaping out and making the user pay a bomb for cheap chinese cells (The ones i have came out of a ACER laptop ala 2006, a single core AMD Turion 64 MT-40 Acer laptop that was smashed ... don't ask why)

I'm pretty certain that laptops use Li ion or Lipo batteries.
Oh well, forgot that LiIon sometimes look like NiCd cells.
That's a grevious mistake ...

Here is a picture of the guts of my Acer 14.8 V 4800 mAh battery pack (Model P/N AS07B42) that came with my Aspire 5920G 5 years ago. I cracked it apart last week to replace the 8 18650 Li-Ion cells (4S2P, I guess). The cells are connected as shown on picture with main voltage tap at CL1 and CL5. In addition there are connections to PCB inside battery labeled CL2, CL3 and CL4 as well. The connector to the laptops has 7 pins. There are 2 temp sensors connected to two of the rightmost cells in the photo.

The 18650's I ordered claim to be 4250mAh. Yeah right! If that was correct my battery pack would increase in capacity from 4800mAh to 8500mAh :) That would be a 77% increase. I just hope I didn't waste $32.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/350546818332

What does the following text on the battery pack mean: "Never attempt to disassemble or reassemble"?!?

EDIT: Original cells are SONY US18650GR (2400mAh)
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 12:11:09 pm by nixxon »
 

Offline rollatorwieltje

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 571
  • Country: nl
  • I brick your boards.
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2012, 10:30:05 pm »
Do I understand correctly that the 'balancing act' works by discharging the cell(s) with the highest voltage and equalizing the cells that way? Looking at the schematic I don't see how it could charge individual cells this way.

That's exactly how most of these chargers work. It just completely stops charging when the difference is too big.

I'm looking at this charger for a while now to replace an old Graupner charger with external balancer, but i'm still a bit hesitant to connect high current sources to dirt cheap Chinese electronics. One of those 3s lipo packs is capable of starting a car...
 

Offline bitwelder

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 825
  • Country: fi
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2012, 10:48:10 pm »
What does the following text on the battery pack mean: "Never attempt to disassemble or reassemble"?!?
"These aren't the battery cells that you are looking for replacement"  ;D
 

Offline nixxon

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 314
  • Country: no
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2012, 11:08:19 pm »
Do I understand correctly that the 'balancing act' works by discharging the cell(s) with the highest voltage and equalizing the cells that way? Looking at the schematic I don't see how it could charge individual cells this way.

That's my understanding, and yes the cells are charged in series.

Since the maximum discharge current (1A?) is less then the max charge current (6A depending upon the attached power supply),  I guess the cycle is:
Charge on, discharge off
Wait until at least 1 cell is is fully charged
Charge off, discharge on
Wait until all fully charged cells <= highest voltage of uncharged cells
... repeat until all balanced and charged?

Balanced charge is just one option. Quick charge ignores the individual cell voltages (?).

I thought the really neat thing about this charger was the ability to calibrate it to within 10mV. Then I bought one, then I bought a Solartron 7150+ and discovered the charger was only 10mV over straight out the box  :) YMMV of course.

If you download LogView (German donorware, IIRC), you get full datalogging capability (activate data out rather than temp sensor) showing everything you could ever want to know about the charging process, down to each lipo cell. While charging and after the charging process has completed, you can view the selected data in LogView (tables or graphs) or access a file with all the data as well. I Usually saved data as CSV files and imported in MS Excel.

Check it out! General info here: http://www.logview.info/vBulletin/content.php?10-english
And some screenshots: http://www.logview.info/vBulletin/content.php?47-screenshots_1

Here is the latest info mail I got from the LogView team October 24th with the title: "LogView 2.7.5.504 Online?":

"Hi LogView friends,

 

the summer is over, the winter is near, and we canĀ“t get our fingers of ...

 

a new update for LogView is Online. The actual version is 2.7.1.411.

 

----------------------------------------------

Changes for this version:

+ new device : Multiplex FlightRecoder

+ new device : Pulsar 3

+ Fix Akkumatik: Akkuamtik-SW 1.09

+ Fixes for OpenFormat

+ keine Nag Screen anymore

+ WDE 1 Fix

+ SM GPS Logger Fix

+ some small other fixes

 

You will find the download here:

http://www.logview.info/vBulletin/downloads.php

http://www.logview.info/vBulletin/downloads.php?do=file&id=17

 

Place remarks to the new version here:

http://www.logview.info/vBulletin/showthread.php?6482-LogView-2.7.5.504-ist-Online

 

If you like to make a small donation for this download you can use this link:

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_xclick&business=dominik%40logview%2einfo&item_name=LogView%20Donation&amount=1%2e50&no_shipping=0&tax=0&currency_code=EUR&lc=DE&bn=PP%2dDonationsBF&charset=UTF%2d8

 

Have fun with the new version!

 

Your LogView Team
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 11:16:36 pm by nixxon »
 

Offline peter.mitchell

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1568
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2012, 02:41:43 am »
What does the following text on the battery pack mean: "Never attempt to disassemble or reassemble"?!?

You should never attempt it, you should always do it successfully.  ;D

Also, if i recall correctly, those cells have about 1.85Ah capacity, you get what you pay for, these on the other hand will provide their rated capacity http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/150936196806.
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2012, 05:01:09 am »
Here is a picture of the guts of my Acer 14.8 V 4800 mAh battery pack (Model P/N AS07B42) that came with my Aspire 5920G 5 years ago. I cracked it apart last week to replace the 8 18650 Li-Ion cells (4S2P, I guess). The cells are connected as shown on picture with main voltage tap at CL1 and CL5. In addition there are connections to PCB inside battery labeled CL2, CL3 and CL4 as well. The connector to the laptops has 7 pins. There are 2 temp sensors connected to two of the rightmost cells in the photo.

The 18650's I ordered claim to be 4250mAh. Yeah right! If that was correct my battery pack would increase in capacity from 4800mAh to 8500mAh :) That would be a 77% increase. I just hope I didn't waste $32.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/350546818332
I'm a little baffled why there is only 8 batteries not 9 batteries but anyway, to get the 14.8V figure they used the two top batteries to gain extra voltage per series bank, the batteries inside are definitely 2400mAH
BTW those 18650s you linked have probably about 2000-2400mAH each if correct and the voltage will quite alot sag under load
and their ESR is much higher therefore will have considerable self-discharge
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 30130
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2012, 05:14:09 am »
The 18650's I ordered claim to be 4250mAh. Yeah right! If that was correct my battery pack would increase in capacity from 4800mAh to 8500mAh :) That would be a 77% increase. I just hope I didn't waste $32.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/350546818332
I'm a little baffled why there is only 8 batteries not 9 batteries but anyway, to get the 14.8V figure they used the two top batteries to gain extra voltage per series bank, the batteries inside are definitely 2400mAH
BTW those 18650s you linked have probably about 2000-2400mAH each if correct and the voltage will quite alot sag under load
and their ESR is much higher therefore will have considerable self-discharge
[/quote]

The best 18650's are capable of is about 3300mAh, and they are Panasonic NCH18650B:
http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-cgi/jvcr13pz.cgi?E+BA+3+ACI4002+NCR-18650B+7+EU
The A version slightly less:
http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-cgi/jvcr13pz.cgi?E+BA+4+ACA4001+NCR18650A+7+WW

Some ebay 18650's claim up to 5000mAh - bullshit!
I'm thinking about getting a bunch and measuring them vs genuine panasonics.

Dave.
 

Offline Things

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 224
  • Country: au
  • Laser Geek
    • NQLasers
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2012, 05:38:10 am »
Please do Dave!

Also, did you see my previous post? i'd really appreciate if you could explain/have a look at why they do this:

Quote from: me
If you look down near the MUX, you'll see that the BATT- is actually going through a divider into the MUX ... what would be the purpose of this? It seem as if BATT- is never directly connected to ground in the circuit. Is it some way of doing isolation?

Dan
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2012, 06:02:01 am »
Some ebay 18650's claim up to 5000mAh - bullshit!
I'm thinking about getting a bunch and measuring them vs genuine panasonics.

Dave.
Yeah, i know about those panasonics it's just the fake ones that never reach the labelling at least on the 3000+ ones, i have seen ultrafire 4800mAH 18650s too and i am definitely going to test them when i get a maynuo load
 

Offline nixxon

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 314
  • Country: no
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2012, 07:57:54 am »
Here is a picture of the guts of my Acer 14.8 V 4800 mAh battery pack (Model P/N AS07B42) that came with my Aspire 5920G 5 years ago. I cracked it apart last week to replace the 8 18650 Li-Ion cells (4S2P, I guess). The cells are connected as shown on picture with main voltage tap at CL1 and CL5. In addition there are connections to PCB inside battery labeled CL2, CL3 and CL4 as well. The connector to the laptops has 7 pins. There are 2 temp sensors connected to two of the rightmost cells in the photo.

The 18650's I ordered claim to be 4250mAh. Yeah right! If that was correct my battery pack would increase in capacity from 4800mAh to 8500mAh :) That would be a 77% increase. I just hope I didn't waste $32.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/350546818332
I'm a little baffled why there is only 8 batteries not 9 batteries but anyway, to get the 14.8V figure they used the two top batteries to gain extra voltage per series bank, the batteries inside are definitely 2400mAH
BTW those 18650s you linked have probably about 2000-2400mAH each if correct and the voltage will quite alot sag under load
and their ESR is much higher therefore will have considerable self-discharge

No surprise that 4 cells @ 3.7 Volts nominal in series gives 14.8 nominal voltage. The remaining 4 cells are simply connected in parallel to the first 4 cells. (4S2P). 4 + 4 cells = 8 cells. What purpose would a 9th cell serve?

When charged, each cell is 4.2 Volts and the pack voltage is actually 16.8 Volts.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 08:49:49 am by nixxon »
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2012, 10:23:49 am »
11.1V 7200mAH  ;)
I'm wondering sometimes why 15.6 acer inchers use 14.8V instead of 11.1V
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 02:35:53 pm by T4P »
 

Offline nixxon

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 314
  • Country: no
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2012, 11:43:29 am »
11.1V 7200mAH  ;)
I'm wonder sometimes why 15.6 acer inchers use 14.8V instead of 11.1V

Now I got it ;)

(3S3P configuration)
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 05:33:43 pm by nixxon »
 

Online aargee

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 726
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2012, 11:56:45 am »
I have a feeling that most laptops use NiCd battery packs

Laptops haven't used nicads since about 1980.

Laptops in 1980? What?

I had a Toshiba T1000 from about 1992 that used NiCd battery packs.

As for the Accucel 6 discharging at 1A, I think it depends on battery voltage (total power), my 3S LiPo's won't discharge above 500mA. I think the Accucel8 might have a higher discharge capacity and might be a better candidate for a dummy load hack.
Not easy, not hard, just need to be incentivised.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 30130
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2012, 12:03:20 pm »
As for the Accucel 6 discharging at 1A, I think it depends on battery voltage (total power), my 3S LiPo's won't discharge above 500mA. I think the Accucel8 might have a higher discharge capacity and might be a better candidate for a dummy load hack.

Just put in a bigger resistor and heatsink it as I mentioned.

Yes, if they are smart they will software limit the total power in the discharge resistor.

Dave.
 

Offline Things

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 224
  • Country: au
  • Laser Geek
    • NQLasers
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2012, 12:15:50 pm »
Yes, I'm fairly sure they do monitor it in software. They do for the ECO6-10 at least, which is very similar.
 

Offline peter.mitchell

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1568
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2012, 02:42:14 pm »
The 18650's I ordered claim to be 4250mAh. Yeah right! If that was correct my battery pack would increase in capacity from 4800mAh to 8500mAh :) That would be a 77% increase. I just hope I didn't waste $32.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/350546818332
I'm a little baffled why there is only 8 batteries not 9 batteries but anyway, to get the 14.8V figure they used the two top batteries to gain extra voltage per series bank, the batteries inside are definitely 2400mAH
BTW those 18650s you linked have probably about 2000-2400mAH each if correct and the voltage will quite alot sag under load
and their ESR is much higher therefore will have considerable self-discharge

The best 18650's are capable of is about 3300mAh, and they are Panasonic NCH18650B:
http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-cgi/jvcr13pz.cgi?E+BA+3+ACI4002+NCR-18650B+7+EU
The A version slightly less:
http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-cgi/jvcr13pz.cgi?E+BA+4+ACA4001+NCR18650A+7+WW

Some ebay 18650's claim up to 5000mAh - bullshit!
I'm thinking about getting a bunch and measuring them vs genuine panasonics.

Dave.
[/quote]

No need Dave, this guy has you covered;
http://lygte-info.dk/info/Batteries18650-2011%20UK.html
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary%20UK.html
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php
 

Offline HKJ

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 826
  • Country: dk
    • Tests
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2012, 04:29:18 pm »
No need Dave, this guy has you covered;
http://lygte-info.dk/info/Batteries18650-2011%20UK.html
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650Summary%20UK.html
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php

This guy has been running battery test 24/7 for the last year.

I tested one set of 5000mAh batteries (four for $10), they had about 1000mAh each, but did handle load surprising well.

Brands link TrustFire/UltraFire/etc. can change contents without warning, I did test a UltraFire from 3 different suppliers and got 3 different results, none of them good. This is not really surprising, you can buy the UltraFire shrink wrap from some suppliers and put it on any old battery you have.

A am also working on a test of smaller LiIon batteries: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/CommonSmallSummary%20UK.html
 

Offline Monkeh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6023
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #45 on: December 14, 2012, 03:24:50 am »
I have a feeling that most laptops use NiCd battery packs

Laptops haven't used nicads since about 1980.

Laptops in 1980? What?

Okay, so I was off by a couple of years, although they were designed in 79-80.

Quote
I had a Toshiba T1000 from about 1992 that used NiCd battery packs.

And it was five years old then.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 03:28:39 am by Monkeh »
 

Offline peter.mitchell

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1568
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #46 on: December 14, 2012, 04:35:26 am »
A am also working on a test of smaller LiIon batteries: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/CommonSmallSummary%20UK.html

Wait... are you saying you're that guy? If so, thank you very very much for this great resource of yours!
 

Offline cwalex

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 302
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #47 on: December 14, 2012, 11:11:25 am »
I just dismantled a dead asus notebook battery with 6 18650 cells in it. 4 of the cells were reading about 3.9V open circuit and the rest about 3.2V. They all took a full charge individually and so far have remained open circuit at about 4.1V. I haven't performed load tests on them at all but I did put a couple in a torch that draws a bit more than 2 amps and they performed well for the brief time I tested them. I wonder if the charger just decided they were too unbalanced now and decided the pack is bad. I plan to make up a backup system for my adsl modem using them plus some more if I can salvage more. Should be a fun project.
 

Offline amyk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6541
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #48 on: December 14, 2012, 11:33:18 am »
Brands link TrustFire/UltraFire/etc. can change contents without warning, I did test a UltraFire from 3 different suppliers and got 3 different results, none of them good. This is not really surprising, you can buy the UltraFire shrink wrap from some suppliers and put it on any old battery you have.
All the *fire brands seem to be a "generic", the Ultrafire 3000 have also been known to be recycled cells...

...not even 18650s...

...and not even LiIon:

 

Offline cwalex

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 302
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #397 - Turnigy Accucel 6 Charger Teardown
« Reply #49 on: December 14, 2012, 12:01:32 pm »
Yeah, I was kind of hoping that at least one of the cells from my dismantled notebook batt would be kaput so that I could take it apart and light it on fire  :scared:
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf