EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review

[xoom]

is there sop44 adapter reverse engineered?

i also wondering if i can use software from http://www.autoelectric.cn/en/ page (8.30) as software provided with CD is 7.30 ?

[james38]

If you mean the Attiny13 chip on the TSop48 look here.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-411-minipro-tl866-universal-programmer-review/msg936055/#msg936055

About the Software. Why not?
The software on CD is very old and i believe that it will be never updated.
I have running V8.30 without problems.
Be sure you must update the Firmware at once but that procedure runs also without problems.

[leonardovenpin]

 Excuse me, does anyone know what peak-to-peak voltage I should put to program an ATF16v8B on a tl866A? 

[ebastler]

Excuse me, does anyone know what peak-to-peak voltage I should put to program an ATF16v8B on a tl866A? 

Why would you need to change the voltage settings? The ATF16V8B is available as a predefined part in the TL866 software, if I remember correctly. Just select it and program away!

[james38]

I know what he mean.

When you select the ATF16v8B you have also the ability to select a VPP voltage.
Predefined is 12,50V.

You can select then between 10.0V until 21.00V.

The Datasheed says that the programming voltage with respect to ground can be -2.0V to +14.0V
So in this case try the default with 12,5V but not over 14V.

[ebastler]

When you select the ATF16v8B you have also the ability to select a VPP voltage.
Predefined is 12,50V.

You can select then between 10.0V until 21.00V.

The Datasheed says that the programming voltage with respect to ground can be -2.0V to +14.0V
So in this case try the default with 12,5V but not over 14V.

Thank you for checking the TL866 software and the datasheet. But please note that the -2V to +14V you state are the "absolute maximum ratings", i.e. the range where you won't damage the device. Nowhere does the datasheet say that voltages in this wide range are suitable for programming. The nominal programming voltage is not stated in the datasheet.

Hence, @leonardovenpin:
Simply don't mess with the 12.5V default value! Autoelectric will either have found out the specified voltage from Atmel or other sources, or have determined it through experimentation. Why would your guess be better than theirs?

[james38]

Yes your are right.
This values are absolute max values.
The overshoot is +7V for pulses of less than 20 ns.
It's a little bit suspicious that in the datasheet they don't declare the correct nominal programming voltage.

Also google says nothing about the voltage.
Seems that its a very guarded secret. ;-)

I only found some Basics for general Gals like 16V8.
Put 12V on Edit to set the Gal in Programming Mode and a slight higher Voltage on the Pins for programming.

Now i am a little bit confused what is the right voltage.
So in this case 12.5V could be already to high.

Maybe I can still find some information about the right Vpp.

[oPossum]

The programming voltage is part of the programming specification that is a separate document from the general data sheet.

Don't change the default voltages selected by the TL866.

[ebastler]

The programming voltage is part of the programming specification that is a separate document from the general data sheet.

Which, in this case, is another way of saying it's a well-kept secret. 

Thank you for repeating that one should not fiddle with the programming voltage pre-set by the TL866. I did not dare repeating it a third time... I can certainly confirm the the default value of 12.5V worked well for me; although 12.0V would probably work just as well. (If the TL866 even offers that value?)

[james38]

The next lower Vpp is 10.00V (it is also the lowest Value you can select).
The next higher is 13.50V from the predefined 12.5V

[leonardovenpin]

What happens is that when I do a combinational circuit (which does not require a clock), I program it well tl866 but when I want to program a sequential circuit (which uses a clock), the PLD does not work and I simulate it in a diagram time of the same software (ispLEVER Classic) and it works.
So I simulate it in Proteus using the JEDEC file and it works.

and I thought it was because of the "VPP", which in the case of combinational circuits only works with 10Vpp.

help me solve it! : '(

I do not know if I have to see that the algorithm to use the GAL16V8D clock is not the same as that of ATF16V8B

[ebastler]

I am note sure I fully understand. Could you please clarify the following?

I thought it was because of the "VPP", which in the case of combinational circuits only works with 10Vpp.

Do you mean that the TL866 software sets a different VPP when you program a GAL in combinatorial vs. registered (clocked) mode?! That can't be; the voltage setting is not influenced by the content of the JEDEC file, right?

I do not know if I have to see that the algorithm to use the GAL16V8D clock is not the same as that of ATF16V8B

From your prior post, I assumed that you are programming an ATF16V8B, and are using the ATF16V8B setting in the TL866 software. Is that right? If so, what does the 16V8D have to do with it?

[leonardovenpin]

What happens that I use
  "ispLEVER Classic" to do the vhdl thing, and it asks me which device I'm going to use, and it only gives me to choose from the GAL family, which is obvious because the software is from Lattice, so, according to me, I select the more similar (GAL16V8D) to my device (ATF16V8B).

When I make a circuit that does not require "Flip Flops", it works well when programming it with the tl866A, but when I use the Flip Flops it does not work anymore.

for example:
- an adder works
- a multiplexer works
- a decoder works
- a Flip Flop type D, JK, RS or T does not work
- a counter does not work

and it is that the software puts me automatic in port one for the clock, but it does not work when programming it, but in the simulators that I mention, yes.

[ebastler]

The ATF16V8 should be logically equivalent to the Lattice 16V8, so the generated JEDEC file should be directly compatible. And I am pretty sure that your problem has nothing to do with the programming voltage either, if things work fine in combinatorial mode.

So it could be some error in your VHDL, and/or a mismatch of the boundary conditions between the simulation vs. real world. Difficult to diagnose remotely... A few ideas come to mind:

- Do you have a clean supply voltage in your real-world test?
- Do you have a 100nF capacitor across Gnd and Vcc?
- Do you have a clean CLK signal?
- Have you grounded the /OE pin (pin 11)?

[leonardovenpin]

I used an NE555 as a clock, I use a steren source and I have it at 5V, should I put a capacitor between the power terminals, should I put EO on the ground?

[ebastler]

should I put EO on the ground?

In GAL registered mode, all outputs operate in tristate mode, and all are controlled by a common output enable.

So yes, the /OE input on pin 11 needs to be pulled to GND, otherwise the outputs will remain in high impedance state.

[leonardovenpin]

When to use the watch, then, in automatic it is put in pin 11 as port as OE?

[ebastler]

When to use the watch, then, in automatic it is put in pin 11 as port as OE?

Sorry, I am not sure I understand that sentence. In registered mode of the GAL, pin 11 is always configured as /OE. It’s described in the datasheet.

(By the way: Note the / character which I keep writing, and you keep omitting. It means that the signal is „active low“.)

[texaspyro]

The ATF16V8 should be logically equivalent to the Lattice 16V8, so the generated JEDEC file should be directly compatible.

Not necessarily...   when I was using GALs, ages ago,  I  ran into some issues where various makers of GALs did not have compatible fuse maps.   You could not program BrandX's devices with BrandY's JEDEC file.

[leonardovenpin]

hank you very much friend, that was the problem, the output was disabled, by the way, if I understood your reference, I know that / OE was that the entry was "denied", nothing more than I always represent it in text like this: (OE)' hehe 

[ebastler]

Thank you for the feedback, Leonardo -- glad you got it to work!
(And glad we could confirm that the TL866 handles ATF16V8 GALs nicely, simply using the default settings!)

[BrianG61UK]

The ATF16V8 should be logically equivalent to the Lattice 16V8, so the generated JEDEC file should be directly compatible.

Not necessarily...   when I was using GALs, ages ago,  I  ran into some issues where various makers of GALs did not have compatible fuse maps.   You could not program BrandX's devices with BrandY's JEDEC file.

I've never seen that, but maybe that can happen on larger more complex GALs.

You can of course have a function in a circuit that can be implemented in either a PAL or a GAL and then there will need to be different JEDEC files, one for the PAL version and a bigger one for the GAL version.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[ChrisG]

Hi Radioman, I'm stuck after re-applying your instructions twice. I did convert my original (by the looks of the images etc) from CS to A a long time ago. Perhaps I'm doing things wrong and my update.dat file is not the right one? How can I check this or get a good one? The result I have so far is that when using the V6.85 software it immediately says to reflash, which it claims is successful, but does not I believe.
One silly question I do have what bootmode on this device is. I did solder the resistor and was able to flash (according to the success messages)

I've added the screenshots in a pdf document.


p.s.: I did read the Djomano super clear pictorial instructions once more and went to flash as a TL866A but constantly get the message upon plugging in or starting minipro 6.85v to go to : Main Menu -> Tools -> Flash Firmware

Appreciate the help on trying to identify where I'm going wrong. Again I have no idea on my update.dat file version

[landsfiskalen]

Hi,
I also did the firmware conversion from CS to A a few years ago. And when I tried to install v6.85 of the software it told me it was a converted CS bla bla bla, and refused to start. So i tried radiomans guide of reflashing the firmware. I soldered the resistor and managed to get the Firmware updater running (v2.51), I did all the steps and flashed it with the 6.82 update.dat file. It looked like everything went ok, and I didn't get any errors. But when I tried to start the v6.82 software I got a "IC List Dll file error!" and it refuses to start. So I thought I'd do it all over again. So I soldered back the resistor and tried to get it back into bootloader mode. But now Firmware updater won't find my device, it just says "0 devices connected". So I tried once more, but with the same result. Any ideas on what to try next? Any help is greatly appreciated.

[ChrisG]

Hi,
I also did the firmware conversion from CS to A a few years ago. And when I tried to install v6.85 of the software it told me it was a converted CS bla bla bla, and refused to start. So i tried radiomans guide of reflashing the firmware. I soldered the resistor and managed to get the Firmware updater running (v2.51), I did all the steps and flashed it with the 6.82 update.dat file. It looked like everything went ok, and I didn't get any errors. But when I tried to start the v6.82 software I got a "IC List Dll file error!" and it refuses to start. So I thought I'd do it all over again. So I soldered back the resistor and tried to get it back into bootloader mode. But now Firmware updater won't find my device, it just says "0 devices connected". So I tried once more, but with the same result. Any ideas on what to try next? Any help is greatly appreciated.

How do you know which update.dat file you have. How can I find this out? I have a file from 2017 and no clue which version or how to determine this.