EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review

[teevee]

What am I doing wrong here?

[radioman]

What am I doing wrong here?

Hmm... i think that you're using the wrong base adapter.
Make sure you use this one: https://proghq.org/wiki/index.php/TL866_TSOP48_adapter

[teevee]

What am I doing wrong here?

Hmm... i think that you're using the wrong base adapter.
Make sure you use this one: https://proghq.org/wiki/index.php/TL866_TSOP48_adapter

thanks for the heads-up, I need to replace the base adapter then, I have ordered this one instead:
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32751137057.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.13364c4dfQk4yl

[Circlotron]

I have a set of four XGecu Pro programmers that seem to have replaced the MiniPro version, and run them from a powered 4-way USB hub. Just now I used them all together and part way through programming I noticed that I hadn't turned on the plug pack that powers the hub. The whole four programmers were running off DC supplied solely from a single PC USB socket and it worked just fine.

So the questions are:
how much current does each programmer draw when programming an eprom?
what is the current rating of a PC USB connection?

Edit  - it draws 130mA per programmer, so 520mA total. USB looks to be rated at 500mA so am I risking something?

[Electro Fan]

Edit  - it draws 130mA per programmer, so 520mA total. USB looks to be rated at 500mA so am I risking something?

I don’t know if you are risking anything but fwiw I wrestled with updating the firmware on the TL866 and after several unsuccessful tries I discovered that the USB ports built into my computer chassis didn’t supply as much power as some after market PCI USB ports I had installed (I think with a molex power cable).  Once I switched from the PC chassis’ integrated USB ports to the PCI card USB ports everything worked fine.  Net, net there is some threshold below which power is insufficient (and probably a threshold above which might be harmful).  (Sorry I can’t help with the specific min/max current thresholds.)

[Lucy]

Thanks to this forum for helping me unbrick my minipro, I was just about to trash it.

[noJunk]

I got an TL866II PLUS and it's not capable with an 5250 and jumper wire to program anything in or offline system (soldered).
SPI flash from ZIF jumper wired to any soldered chip will statically trigger a pin detection error.




(making example here)
SST25VF080B  PIN ERROR 2 3 6 7
W25Q16BV PIN ERROR 5 6
ETC ETC

The programming software doesn't allow typically 2.7-3.6V SPI EEPROM device to be programmed with the embedded ICSP port or if it does and the internal programmer VCC is supplied, the programmer will trigger it's own over-current protection mechanism.
The TL866II PLUS doesn't passively identify, read or write, it expect and flow the whole 3.3v circuit on, some desktop board require this to not happen altogether.
It work on bare programmable device in the ZIF socket, or trough adapter but that's all.

[flash2b]

Disable "PIN detect" on options and try again. The TL866II+ sees a load when the device is in circuit and PIN detect will stop the programming.

[noJunk]

Thank you, but it's more then disabling the pin detection.
Connecting the TL866II Plus with it's own VCC in either ICP or ZIP to CLIP make the software throw an error about over-current protection, or inverted IC or some other error like that when no other external power source are supplied.
In ICP mode it let you have the VCC connected to "monitor" the external VCC level but it doesn't do actually any "monitoring".
The hardware is not capable to drive the board 3v3 circuit with safety, to discover the Manufacturer ID: EF, Memory type: 40, Capacity: 16 or to targeting the SPI or to interpose with the PCH, pull low other masters or high other signal, ETC etc.
The Xgecu TL866II Plus doesn't read or write while in-circuit on specified soldered device.
It's an in-socket programmer without any affinity or compatibility.

[firewalker]

You are trying to read a soldered spi memory. Why do you expect it to work flawlessly? By supplying supply, you enable more than the memory it self. If there is an mcu present that controls the memory, locate the reset pin and hold it in the logic level that resets it. Then try reading the memory.

Alexander.

[tsmith35]

Here's an interesting comment that may help you:

"I think desoldering this chip is not neccessary if you want to dump its content only. It is very risky, especially for unexperienced/unequiped hobbyists. This memory use SPI bus so you need to connect only 4 or 5 wires. It is usually easier to figure out traces DI/DO/CLK/CS on PCB and scratch soldermask. Wires can be soldered via small resistors for safety. You can power up the board while reset line of main controller is pulled low (check datasheet if it is high/low). It is common to wire reset line to external connector/solderpin for testing/programming reason, so finding this pin should be easy. In reset state, most microcontrollers set their pins in floating mode, so you can change their level externally without risk."

[noJunk]

 That's something sold as In Serial Circuit Programmer should do with just the /CS /HOLD function for the supported configuration.
The board I'm currently testing (DQ57TM|DQ77MK|DX58SO|DX58SO2) are simple desktop board, no quartz freeze or other hardware escamotage are required by user to reprogram the BIOS in off-line mode (NO POWER | NO BATTERY with only PSU ATX connected for the GND routing | VCC programmer ).
The older ( 10 sec BUSY ) W25Q16BV or W25Q16AV or the other W25Q64FV on the latter doesn't have an documented hardware reset pin and will not recognize any standard SPI instruction when powered up in the last "wrong" (QUAD) condition. Maybe raising /CS and then lowering could reset the AX condition and driving the /CS low and then shifting the 03h instruction followed by 24-bit address (A23-A0) into the DI pin could change the operational state, anyway, something not in user hand with the software provided on the TL866II PLUS.
The PCH may have it's own but I have not yet found how and by the way on the DX58SO|DX58SO2 it's not implemented to do anything without the battery @ software level.
Other hardware programmers ( I'm actually checking on most currently as per today available ) [with these board] sold with a price tag as hardware MCU\SPI\ICPS\ISP (no custom devboard) doesn't awake other component on the circuit except for the PWR_LED and the selected chip by just connecting the clip.
Few of these MCU\SPI\ICPS\ISP programmer read, write and verify the full content.
Other read and the content mismatch by lot percentage [I'm working on the signal quality on these] but unlike some few cheap programmer ( fully powering on everything 3v3 without any operation ) the TL866II PLUS can't even detect the ID while in-circuit, desoldering is not an option right now, thanks for the mild suggestion.
I will solder an composite chip carrier SOW8 type (ACA-SPI-004-K01) someday down the point when I'm done checking the status.

[firewalker]

I have read soldered spi memories many time with this programmer. I doesn;t always work though. It depends ton the surrounding circuits. Some times you may need extra power. Like in the video bellow.

https://youtu.be/Jjv1ETu89vY?list=PLvOlSehNtuHsc8y1buFPJZaD1kKzIxpWL&t=1511

On the image you attached the memory seems to need some cleaning.

[noJunk]

I know not the best but the board work in a condition like that, other programmer work too.
I'll try to brush it of on next iteration, or touch up... someday or the other! plus the place is kinda low space (1.5cm \ 0.55inch) and the surrounding is filled with plastic with low melt temperature.
Need like six displaced probe for temperature checking and five layer of kapton tape to work in the area.
Can't get better magnification it's currently mounted inside a case here an alternative view with more UV light.





I'll might do better with an iron.
About the external power supply, external VCC (MB102 prototype board) with shared GND ( programmer < power supply > target ) on the Xgecu TL866II PLUS make the overcurrent protection error disappear but W25Q16BV remain not detectable, like in the first figure (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-411-minipro-tl866-universal-programmer-review/msg2849110/#msg2849110). Serial Clock (CLK) and Serial Data Input (DI) are likely on /HOLD.
This or something like also happen with few programmer capable to read, write and verify if external VCC is supplied along the embedded programmer.
W25Q16BV seems not supported in circuit ( board DX58SO2 ) W25Q16AV seems not supported in circuit ( board DX58SO ), W25Q32BV\W25Q64FV seems not supported in circuit either ( other board ) on the Xgecu TL866II PLUS.




(is that a miniPRO?)

[tchicago]

Need like six displaced probe for temperature checking and five layer of kapton tape to work in the area.

Try Chipquik kit part # SMD1NL. The main component is an alloy that melts at the temperature lower than water's boiling point. The idea is that you rub this alloy on the pins using the regular iron, and the alloy mixes with the motherboard's solder alloy, lowering its melting point. Then, once mixed, it takes a long time for this mix to cool and harden, so you just heat one side then the other, then just pick that chip off the board. Very easy.

You can get this alloy cheaper on eBay from Romania, Moldova, Ukraine, Russia... Look for "Rose alloy", or "Rose metal" 50 grams of it will be more than enough for a lot of future work like that.

Just make sure this is "Rose metal" and NOT "Wood's metal". The latter is toxic and has even lower melting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood%27s_metal . To ensure what kind of alloy it is,  test its melting point using the table from Wikipedia.

[sotos]

Need like six displaced probe for temperature checking and five layer of kapton tape to work in the area.

Try Chipquik kit part # SMD1NL. The main component is an alloy that melts at the temperature lower than water's boiling point. The idea is that you rub this alloy on the pins using the regular iron, and the alloy mixes with the motherboard's solder alloy, lowering its melting point. Then, once mixed, it takes a long time for this mix to cool and harden, so you just heat one side then the other, then just pick that chip off the board. Very easy.

You can get this alloy cheaper on eBay from Romania, Moldova, Ukraine, Russia... Look for "Rose alloy", or "Rose metal" 50 grams of it will be more than enough for a lot of future work like that.

Just make sure this is "Rose metal" and NOT "Wood's metal". The latter is toxic and has even lower melting point: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood%27s_metal . To ensure what kind of alloy it is,  test its melting point using the table from Wikipedia.

Do you have a link for the product you mention. I cant find it at Ebay.

[ebastler]

Do you have a link for the product you mention. I cant find it at Ebay.

Mouser, Digikey, Amazon UK carry it.
You can use a technology called "Google" to find out. 

[sotos]

Do you have a link for the product you mention. I cant find it at Ebay.

Mouser, Digikey, Amazon UK carry it.
You can use a technology called "Google" to find out. 

I did nothing comes up, the only thing at Ebay are flowers and jewelry. And my friend I have it and its very expensive to buy it again so Im looking for less expensive ones.

[ebastler]

Mouser, Digikey, Amazon UK carry it.
You can use a technology called "Google" to find out. 

I did nothing comes up, the only thing at Ebay are flowers and jewelry. And my friend I have it and its very expensive to buy it again so Im looking for less expensive ones.

I said "Google". That is not the same as "Ebay".
Here, let me show you: https://www.google.com/search?q=Chipquik+SMD1NL

It's a brand-name product for a rather specialized use. Why would you expect to find it for cheap on ebay?

[sotos]

Mouser, Digikey, Amazon UK carry it.
You can use a technology called "Google" to find out. 

I did nothing comes up, the only thing at Ebay are flowers and jewelry. And my friend I have it and its very expensive to buy it again so Im looking for less expensive ones.

I said "Google". That is not the same as "Ebay".
Here, let me show you: https://www.google.com/search?q=Chipquik+SMD1NL

It's a brand-name product for a rather specialized use. Why would you expect to find it for cheap on ebay?

Although not the proper topic to chat it, but please read again post 1765 what he says and that’s why I was interested for it.

You can get this alloy cheaper on eBay from Romania, Moldova, Ukraine, Russia... Look for "Rose alloy", or "Rose metal" 50 grams of it will be more than enough for a lot of future work like that.

I think you didn’t read what he is saying.

As for Chipquik I have it and work with it.

[ebastler]

Oh, right -- I did indeed overlook that. When you referred to "the product you mentioned" in your first reponse to tchicago, I thought you were referring to the "Try Chipquik kit part # SMD1NL" at the beginning of his post. My apologies!

EDIT: When I search for "rose alloy" (including the quotes) on ebay.com, the first four hits are for the metal, a lead/bismuth/tin alloy. All of them from Russia, three with free international shipping. A less convenient format though, little beads instead of a long wire.

[noJunk]

Probably you can get away with electric meters security seals or with some type of golf\fishing equipment or 60/40.
But anyway, Yea, I rather save the equipment then wasting the whole board.
 I'm looking to flash those board like hundred of time so, the socket ( like in the attached image ) is the best option but, it's not an easy task ( require experience ) and the resulting planned budget is similar to an industrial ICSP hardware programmer if it work out.
I just thought more hardware programmer were by now compatible in-circuit with desktop board such like these. I still have 3 or 4 to check out.

[tsmith35]

I've had success in the past with this programmer and surface mount chip clip. YMMV It's not cheap, but it worked for me.

[clip]

Hello everyone,
I need advice on how to connect to the board via ICSP port programmer TL866. I do not know what pin to connect. See picture

Thank you

[noJunk]

I'm currently on the path of testing the RK-System Uprog-ICP, should arrive any day by now.
But I'm already having issue with it's unclear DAQ software licensing type which seems to be used by the logic analyzer port.
Software is also crashing on VM with an NINI library error exception. So, hope are low and return policy will make the difference.
The Dediprog SF100 (firmware 4.1.1) work already on most of these intel board, dunno if newer version still do, but should.
GQ-4x4 partially work. Content is not begin correctly read and might require the ADP-056 adapter - got one inbound.
With a price tag over 300 I can virtually buy one QUICK 861DW do the training required on dead hardware and somehow try when ready in the next decade.
At the same quote I could also opt to find any PCB custom assembly services nearby and call it done with haste and warranty.
Next in the line is REVELPROG-IS once I'm done I'll evaluate the working\partial one.
TL-866II PLUS doesn't work.

@clip
Either the software will tell you or it's not supported and the option is disabled and will not work.
OR it may not work even if the option is selectable and supported with an visual scheme.
good luck