EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review

[firewalker]

Hello everyone,
I need advice on how to connect to the board via ICSP port programmer TL866. I do not know what pin to connect. See picture

Thank you

I don't think that you can use the icsp port on that eeprom.



Alexander.

[clip]

Hello everyone,
I need advice on how to connect to the board via ICSP port programmer TL866. I do not know what pin to connect. See picture

Thank you

I don't think that you can use the icsp port on that eeprom.



Alexander.

Thank you.
Thus, I would do it. The Eep 95160 is inaccessible to the board. I need to connect without disassembling complex boards using ICSP port.

[tchicago]

You can get this alloy cheaper on eBay from Romania, Moldova, Ukraine, Russia... Look for "Rose alloy", or "Rose metal" 50 grams of it will be more than enough for a lot of future work like that.

Regarding the ebay items these are the examples:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Roses-metal-Rose-metal-alloy-Rose-Lead-Bismuth-Tin-alloy/254142597132?hash=item3b2c14480c:g:8dAAAOSwBRdcdrBu

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Roses-metal-Rose-metal-alloy-Rose-Lead-Bismuth-Tin-alloy-Lot-of-50g/232200217143?hash=item3610362237:g:THcAAOSw1WJZIzF0

I use a similarly looking stuff bought at local electronics market in Ukraine (locally called KarDachi). It is equivalent to Chipquik product https://www.chipquik.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=220001 , just more of that special solder for less price.

Sorry about the late response to this topic - I was away for vacation.

[noJunk]

I think the malleability equivalent is more on the leaded ChipQuik SMD4.5 alloy side.
 The ChipQuik SMD4.5NL (lead free) would not give the same result especially on iron with less power or with cheap unoptimized thermal conductivity\design.

The thing with bismuth and lead you linked it's almost the best to desolder on budget, nobody should try with lead free product on SMD or valuable hardware.
 If you do use lead free with cheap iron: be ready to repair pads and trace and replace the IC.

In the EU leaded soldering product are an issue for hobbyist but should be written all over on any "desoldering video".
Wear the gloves, the mask and do it with an fume extractor and also while at check the material before on copper and aluminum for reaction.

[noJunk]

In the end I soldered the socket on the board.



 

[Macbeth]

In the EU leaded soldering product are an issue for hobbyist but should be written all over on any "desoldering video".
Wear the gloves, the mask and do it with an fume extractor and also while at check the material before on copper and aluminum for reaction.

Au contraire, Rodney, au contraire.
Lead 60/40 solder has a lower melting point and not so nasty fluxes which are required for unleaded solder. Your soldering iron will never turn lead into a gas that you breath in. The flux is another matter.
Normal people wash their hands before eating anyway so if a tiny miniscule of lead was on your fingers from handling 60/40 then it will be gone immediately.
Let me say, the EU RoHS is a typical globalist politicians response to a problem that did not exist and has exacerbated electronic waste and pollution (because nothing lasts any more with that shit lead free solder and just ends up in landfill).

[noJunk]

Yea, I'm not advocating for lead free stuff, like I said: I save more by repairing the hardware or begin able to.
There just low quality inorganic stuff smelling really bad or making real sickening fume. Rosin flux usually smell not so bad, or alot (I'm using the SMD291 for availability) and doesn't leave acidic residue by product.

[ebastler]

Let me say, the EU RoHS is a typical globalist politicians response to a problem that did not exist and has exacerbated electronic waste and pollution (because nothing lasts any more with that shit lead free solder and just ends up in landfill).

Now there's an interesting take on history. The RoHS regulations have caused the transition to "disposable" electronics?! Where were you in the 80s and 90s, mate? (RoHS first became effective in 2002.)

[tocsa120ls]

Let me say, the EU RoHS is a typical globalist politicians response to a problem that did not exist and has exacerbated electronic waste and pollution (because nothing lasts any more with that shit lead free solder and just ends up in landfill).

Now there's an interesting take on history. The RoHS regulations have caused the transition to "disposable" electronics?! Where were you in the 80s and 90s, mate? (RoHS first became effective in 2002.)

It certainly added to the problem. We've scientifically proven that satellites were lost because tin whishers growing out of lead-less solder shorted out their nav boards. At least one NPP (AKW) shutdown is attributed to tin whiskers (Millstone, CT). Toyota could tell stories too... (conformal coating does not stop tin whisker growth, snatch).

[ebastler]

It certainly added to the problem. We've scientifically proven that satellites were lost because tin whishers growing out of lead-less solder shorted out their nav boards. At least one NPP (AKW) shutdown is attributed to tin whiskers (Millstone, CT). Toyota could tell stories too... (conformal coating does not stop tin whisker growth, snatch).

But my point is that the whole industry -- first and foremost consumer electronics and computing, then increasingly also measurement & control devices etc. -- was moving to "disposable", non-repairable electronics as a business model, and that RoHS was introduced in response to that. Macbeth's claim that there was no good reason for introducing RoHS, and that RoHS has caused the proliferation of electronic waste, is a very "Brexit" thing to say...

As a side note, all the critical applications which you mention in your examples are actually outside of the RoHS scope: vehicles including satellites, as well as fixed industrial plants, are not covered to my knowledge.

[charlyd]

did anybody in this topic ever managed to burn  EPROMs TMS2516/2532  if yes please PM me.

[Blendama]

Hi everyone! 

Long time lurker here. I’m looking to purchase a TL866 and decided to invest the time in reading this forum post from page 1!  All I have to say is; Radioman you ROCK!

I checked autoelectric’s website and it looks like a new programmer is going to launch soon.  If I read it correctly it will support Vpp > 18V!

http://forums.xgecu.com/redirect.php?tid=19&goto=lastpost#lastpost

I think I may hold out until it launches...curious if anyone else knows any more about it?

[kalle_wirsch]

Hi,

I bricked my TL866A (which was a TL866CS) by accidently flashing a new offical firmare.
Then I tried to flash an older firmware with TL866.exe (version 2.52). I soldered a resistor from +3.3V to register R26 as described in the documentation.
Then I tried to flash the firmware dumper and the TL866.exe showed that it was first erasing and than writing something. Than I got a "reflash failed" message. I tried several times. Always the same result.
Now the device completely dead. It is no longer recognized as USB device.

The documentation mentions how to reflash the TL866 with an ICSP programmer. I have no pic programmer or any other ICSP programmer (the TL866A was my ICSP programmer).
Is there any other solution to do this? Maybe with an Arduino? I have some Atmel ISP programmers, can I use them as ICSP programmers too?

kalle

[radioman]

Then I tried to flash an older firmware with TL866.exe (version 2.52). I soldered a resistor from +3.3V to register R26 as described in the documentation.
Then I tried to flash the firmware dumper and the TL866.exe showed that it was first erasing and than writing something. Than I got a "reflash failed" message. I tried several times. Always the same result.
Now the device completely dead. It is no longer recognized as USB device.
kalle

That reflash failed message was caused by that resistor. Until you remove it the programmer will keep enter into boot mode after power up or reset. My firmware updater will test the reflash success status by looking at the device status after the reset command. If the device status is ''Normal mode" then a reflash ok is issued, otherwise if the device is still in boot mode you'll see that 'reflash failed' message.  So that resistor will force to always start in bootloader mode even after a succesfull firmware reflash. 

So the problem here is that you can keep reflash your device and you will get that annoying error message until you remove that resistor. But this will not brick your device.  Something else happened here.

Restoring a bricked device is easy, but you will need a PIC programmer. The most simple one is described at the end of that pdf file. three resistors an a DB-25 male connector. Of course you will need a quite old computer with a real LPT connector on the motherboard.   
If you can't find one, maybe you can borrow a Pickit from someone.  Also check this: http://picpgm.picprojects.net/hardware.html
The PicPgm software accepts a plenty of hardware programmers. Maybe you have an usb to serial adapter (PL2303 or FTDI based) to make a JDM programmer like this: https://www.instructables.com/id/The-2-USB-Pic-Programmer-Serial-Cable

Anyway generate a new firmware with my firmware updater tool and if you encounter any difficulties please reply here.

I checked autoelectric’s website and it looks like a new programmer is going to launch soon.  If I read it correctly it will support Vpp > 18V!

http://forums.xgecu.com/redirect.php?tid=19&goto=lastpost#lastpost

I think I may hold out until it launches...curious if anyone else knows any more about it?

I found the first reference of the Xgecu T56 while searching for some strings in their software back in january 2018 or so and i was quite confused because i saw that the Xgecu software has some implementations for another programmer (other than TL866II+) so yes is about two years since then and is still in the development stage. 

Specs are OK. 32bit processor, 56 pins and other cool stuff.   Unfortunately same Windows closed source software no other OS support and maybe easy to brick as their first two programmers. Because i'm also involved in the open source software for their TL866A/CS and TL866II+ programmers i know how difficult is to keep the open source software up to date with those firmware changes introduced in each software version.  So i doubt about any collaboration with them to release some docs about the protocol or something else,  because what we have right now is based only on reverse engineering. 
The only strong point about their programmers is price.

[kalle_wirsch]

Restoring a bricked device is easy, but you will need a PIC programmer. The most simple one is described at the end of that pdf file. three resistors an a DB-25 male connector. Of course you will need a quite old computer with a real LPT connector on the motherboard.   

Thank you for your reply. I soldered the adapter for the printer port and tried it on an older Dell laptop with the version of the picpgm software, that was linked to in pdf file (Version 1.6.5.0). I connected it with the TL866 device and powered it by USB. I used the hardware setup for the picpgm software that was mentioned in the pdf file. But the software reports "ERROR opening LPT driver!".
Does this older software version work with Windows 7?

At picprojects.net there is a newer version of the software available, but the descriped programming adapter is more complicate, with a driver circuit.

kalle

[radioman]

Never tried this on Windows 7. The pictures from that pdf file are taken by me from a Windows XP machine seven years ago while searching for a cheap solution to reflash bricked TL866. The old now picpgm version was the last version then. There's a driver (portio.sys) which i think that is not supported by the newer operating systems as this is a 32bit driver (i guess).

You can try a new version but i think that you will get the same result. Perhaps a win7 32bit version should work? More info here: http://picpgm.picprojects.net/faq.html#FAQ_002  see FAQ002

At picprojects.net there is a newer version of the software available, but the described programming adapter is more complicate, with a driver circuit.

Yeah, there's a buffered version there, but don't worry this el cheapo three resistor version will work even with the last software version.

[kalle_wirsch]

That reflash failed message was caused by that resistor.

I still have a question about the resistor.

Without the resistor, TL866.EXE got stuck when trying to deleting the boot sector. The green indicator that the boot sector is active was off.
This was the reason why I soldered in the resistor as described in the pdf file.

What would have been the correct procedure to install another firmware with TL866.EXE, when the boot sector is not activated?

kalle

[radioman]

Perhaps by reflashing a new firmware version you got a semibrick. Meaning that you can't upgrade the firmware because the bootloader is locked. That's why TL866.exe was stuck while trying to switch your programmer into bootloader mode. So you soldered that resistor to force bootloader mode. Good move.  At this point you should remove that resistor (while the device is still powered) or continue with that resistor and flash the firmware dumper. After the firmware dumper is flashed, if that resistor is still in the circuit you will get that error message (reflash failed) because the programmer cannot switch back to normal mode. This situation is like you keep pressing the DEL key while booting your computer and you enter to bios mode again and again. There's no chance to load the OS (in our case  the normal firmware).   
That's why i keep repeating here in this topic to not solder that resistor, but to keep his terminals to the indicated points with one hand while inserting the usb cable with the other hand. Sounds hard but after a few tries you should succeed. 

After that if the firmware dumper is flashed  ok the advanced button will become available. In the advanced window, check the CP bit and click the write button in the code protection section and then just click the write button in the bootloader section to rewrite your bootloader and correct his checksum.   
Then close the advanced window, select 'TL866A' from the main window and click reflash. At this moment you should get a working device and you can flash the latest firmware version (6.85).
So that resistor is only to force your device into boot mode. I should update that pdf file with this info because as i can see there's a confusions here.

But in your case you should get that PicPgm working to manually reflash your firmware.  Again what version of Windows 7 you have: 32 or 64 bit?

[kalle_wirsch]

But in your case you should get that PicPgm working to manually reflash your firmware.  Again what version of Windows 7 you have: 32 or 64 bit?

32 bit. I have an old Toshiba laptop with Windows 2000. Will try this tomorrow.

Now I've got the point with the resistor. 

[teevee]

I just updated the software for my TL866 Mk2 from version 10.00 to 10.02, but I cannot find any changelogs? 

[radioman]

Here: http://www.xgecu.com/en/TL866_main.html 

[radioman]

I think I may hold out until it launches..

Already on sale!?  https://www.ebay.com/itm/XGecu-T56-Universal-Programmer

[ebastler]

Already on sale!?  https://www.ebay.com/itm/XGecu-T56-Universal-Programmer

$156 US. Let's hope that is the "early adoptor, need to have the latest gadget" price, and it will come down over time...

[kalle_wirsch]

32 bit. I have an old Toshiba laptop with Windows 2000. Will try this tomorrow.

Success! My TL866 is working again! 

First I tried the old Windows 2000 laptop with the picpgm software and the simple LPT programmer was detect. But when I connected it to the TL866 board the PIC was not detected.
But the TL866 was USB powered by another laptop and that laptop suddenly detected an new USB device. So I started the TL866.EXE again an it detected the Firmware dumper that I flashed some days ago.
Now I was able to reflash the bootloader and the firmware and everything is working fine. 

Thank you very much for your support! 

[radioman]

But the TL866 was USB powered by another laptop and that laptop suddenly detected an new USB device. So I started the TL866.EXE again an it detected the Firmware dumper that I flashed some days ago.

So, the programmer was not bricked after all. Must have been  something else. Glad you finally restore it.