EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review

[NibiruDawn]

Hi all, many thanks Radioman for your excellent job!

I remembered to have a new TL866CS into my cellar...
Several years ago I also remember to read a similar topic: How to convert a TL866CS into a TL866A.
So, after 3 years I decided to apply this procedure, this time made easier by Radioman!

Ok, in brief my use case:

- TL866CS with v3.2.58 (environment Win 10 PRO)
- I installed MiniPro Programmer 6.85 and I updated to v3.2.86
- I opened the program Radioman Updater and I followed the Radioman's procedure.

Because I didn't apply the pull-up restistor I got "Reset Error" message.

Here my questions.

1) is it really necessary (in order to not compromise the correct functioning of the programmer) to apply a reset after of the programmer after flashing?
2) I see alphanumeric serial number and a numeric device code in minipro window. In additional, I read TL866A v3.2.86 below the MiniPro Programmer window and the same information clicking on Help-->About.
Radioman updater shows the device in "Normal Working Mode"
From Tools--> System Self-Check : all the 27 tests are OK and the end result is test finish ... successful.
Are please sufficient these informations in order to be sure that the programmer is really working? Exist a way to check it?
My questions because (if I am right) I read in the forum that some users discovered some issue during the programming\erasing of some IC.
Actually I don't have an IC in order to test the TL866.
3) Is it please possible to use the TL866 in UART (TTL) mode modality?
If the answer is affirmative , what's the correct pinout?

Many thanks and greatings

[teevee]

I have a refurbished chip with ID 20 86, there is written 27C1001 on it, but that is not correct,

Since Xgecu failed to implement a feature, which can also help you identifying the chip ID as an actual usefull indicator of what it is.

What is 20 86?

[grantb5]

Best I could find. Looks like ST maybe. Is it a windowed EPROM?

http://www.mcumall.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4974

Look halfway down the page.

[lololo]

Hello,
maybe you can help me. I have a TL866II-Plus and am trying to read an N25Q064A11E (1.8V) eeprom. The pins are detected but I have an overcurrent protection problem. What I do not understand is that before you had to have an adapter for 1.8v chips but I see that now no longer need. Is it a hardware or software modification? I'm also looking for how to change the voltage, because in the list of available chips the N25Q064 appears without?

thank you in advance for your help

[Willem52]

I have a refurbished chip with ID 20 86, there is written 27C1001 on it, but that is not correct,

Since Xgecu failed to implement a feature, which can also help you identifying the chip ID as an actual usefull indicator of what it is.

What is 20 86?

Perhaps you could take a look at: https://hiddenpalace.org/EPROMs ?

[Dilbert66]

For those that need to program 21v devices on the TL866II+, you can  simply add a 10k resistor between pins 5 and ground (or pins 5 and 4) of U3 via a removable jumper .  This is effectively changing the voltage divider of r8/r9 which sets the output voltage .  This will give you an approx 3+ volt additional range and thus give you 21v when the programmer is set to 18v. Removing the jumper, returns the programmer to normal.   This allows me to program old 2764D's (that use 21 volts vpp). 

Edit: You can achieve 25v VPP (in addition to 21v)  by using a 6.2K or 6.8K resistor instead.  This gives a +7volt boost to the vpp voltage as viewed on the application. 
For example to get 21v, you set the programmer vpp to 14volt (14 + 7=21),  for 25v, you set the programmer to 18v (18+7=25)

Note: I've only tested this with 21volt eproms.  I have had success with TMS (TI) eproms and a few Toshiba (TMM2764's) (only ones I had on hand that required higher vpp). Some of the TMM2764/2732's I could read fine but couldnt program.  I have tried both XGpro (pulse witdh 1ms)  and minipro (with pulse width set to 50ms).  I'm not sure at this point what the problems with  those, so there is something else at play here that is affecting successful writes. I have not investigated this too much at this point. Possibly bad chips due to their age. I have insured that the vpp was correct at the chip using an oscilloscope.   

See my post here for more details: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/modification-to-add-the-missing-21-and-25-volt-vpp-ranges-to-your-tl866ii-plus/msg3959678/#msg3959678

[Dilbert66]

I did some scoping on the program logic and found out why the programmer (using latest 11.81 version) will not program any 2732's.  To program those there are only two lines used for logic.  an OE(low)/VPP and the CE(low) line.   To write a byte, it sets vpp to 21v on the OE pin and CE should go from high to low.  In this case. It goes from low to high which is backwards and incorrect. 

It's obviously a software bug. I went on the xegu forum and posted a message. I'll see if I can mail the manufacturer directly as well.

To prove the issue on the 2732, I put a jumper from pin 18(ce)  to gnd , basically forcing it low always and re-ran the program.  Success.  The chip programmed perfectly using 21v.  The 21volt pulse going high and ce tied low was good enough to program the chip.  Usually you set vpp, then after short delay you set ce low for 50ms then back high.

So for those having issues with 2732's (or other problematic eproms) you can try this and see if it does the job.  It might not work for those that have a dedicated program pin though but worth a shot.  Of course, you might need to have pin detect unchecked and  the correct vpp voltage set as well.

Edit: I had a look at the 2716 and the logic was correct for those.

[neli]

Hello,
I have the same problem. I try to flash PALCE22V10H both TL866A and TL866II Pro in Gal22V10 D settings.
I got overcurrent error at Vpp=12,5V, (this is the programming voltage in datasheet). But at Vpp=12V the procedure went on. It seems that the flashing method successful. The result is -when verifying- the fuse bit NOT changed. The IC content NOT changed.
So is there anybody who flashed this IC successful with Minipro?
Elemer

[RSistem82]

Please help me im new on this forum. I had minipro TL866 II programmer can you help me with this chip Samsung S3F9454 it is MCU i need read firmware from W.E.P 872D hotair. In software ther isnt some specification from this chip. Very thanks for some solutions. 

[ebastler]

Please help me im new on this forum. I had minipro TL866 II programmer can you help me with this chip Samsung S3F9454 it is MCU i need read firmware from W.E.P 872D hotair. In software ther isnt some specification from this chip. Very thanks for some solutions. 

I'm afraid the outlook is not good for that. The TL866 II programmer is not known for its expandability. The onboard firmware needs to know abot a device in order to read or write it, so if a chip is not supported, there is no easy way around that.

And in addition, I would assume that the Samsung microcontroller offers some kind of read protection option, and that the manufacturer of your WEP 872D has used that option to protect their firmware. So even with a programmer which knows this processor, you would probably not be able to read the 872D's firmware.

[DocRV]

Hello guys,
First, thank you all ! Thanks to this forum, I saved my bricked TL866 ;-) !

I want to flash 29GL064 (8 or 16bits EEPROM) with a 8-bit file.
How can I tell MiniPro/TL866 to flash using 8-bit mode, instead of the default 16-bits mode ?

(note : in 8bit mode (BYTE# low), pin45 = A-1
            in 16bit mode (BYTE# low), pin 45 = DQ15)

Thank you for your help !

[Kjo]

Great thread, just got a TL866II+.
Read through thread and noted quite a few references to acquiring EPROMs both new and old. So I thought it worth noting my experience in dealing with counterfeit parts. I use a lot of older 2732 & 2764 devices. I take what sources I can find. Recently I acquired a  batch of ST M2732A-2F1 devices. I have used many of these in the past that worked fine. I was using a Needhams EMP30 programmer that was quite professional in its day. It bricked the first few I tried to program. What gives I say? A peek into the window of a known good M2732A said it all. These new chips were not the same! (See Pics)

I sent some parts to Curious_Marc over at youtube who de-capped and did some high res photos. We could identify the fake as a NS CMOS part by die marking and a bit of layout tracing. The upper part of the fake is almost certainly a charge pump capacitor.

Best match I could make was to a NS NM27C32B device which programs at 5V not 21V. Needhams programmer happily programs them as a NS27C32B!
Now why anyone in China (where they came from)  would choose to relabel as ST M2732A 21V devices leaves me scratching my head.

Moral..... when buying ICs, dont believe the markings until you verify in some manner. eprom, micro, EPLD, FPGA it doesnt matter. Same goes for test equipment....

kjo - KO3Y

[Southerner]

I hope this is the right place to ask this.  I am using Minipro v6.85 on a Windows 7 box as I understand that is the last Minipro version that will work with my converted TL866CS.  I have not used it much but have used it several times in the last few days. Can anyone tell me how to turn off the setting of lock bit as the default programming option?  I have no desire to set the lock bit as I do plan to reprogram these chips.  Am I reading it right or does setting that lock bit (the default) not set the lock bit fuse so I and others can't reprogram the ATMega328P without having to use a hv programmer to erase them and reprogram them?

Thank you.

[Shock]

Try the project menu and save one.

[H.O]

Has anyone been able to program AT27C4096 OTP devices using the TL866?

I'm using v6.50 of the software and a PLCC44 to DIP40 adapter which seems to "convert" the pinout properly but I'm not able to program the device nor will it read the correct ID from the device, it always returns FFFF FFFF. It does blankcheck OK but so does an empty ZIF-socket so that doesn't really say much.

These are EBAY devices so the likelyhood of them being fake is high, they do come from a seller with 100% positive feedback though and since there's like a year leadtime from Mouser I thought it was worth taking a chance. So before I contact the seller claiming these are fakes is there anything I can try?

[Shock]

By comparing it against a device legitimately sourced and testing it. Sending it to someone who frequently uses them. Asking someone to send a genuine part to you (make a post in the buy/sell/wanted forum not here). Confidence that your programmer is working correctly and can program other devices in the same package or series, has the interface been used before?

If it came from China it's likely fake but anyone can resell fakes sourced elsewhere. You can google how to spot fakes for some tips. Obviously it's free money for the seller, every time someone buys them it makes it worthwhile even if small quantity.

You could profile the seller a little to get a better idea where all their items are supplied from, how long they have been selling. Plus you could contact them and ask where they were sourced from or put it to them that you believe the devices are not genuine. A conscientious seller would have some evidence of their origin. But you are probably wasting your time.

[Bimmeristi]

Hi!

Is there solution use this ATMega64 - YAMAICHI IC51-0644-824-3 QFP64 TQFP ZIF Programming Adapter with TL866II Plus? Or need wiring pins to ICSP only. No possible use DIP?!?

[tsmith35]

Use ICSP. May get something like the Waveshare 3762 but doable. I've seen that many struggle since Atmel uses PDO/PDI instead of MISO/MOSI, but YMMV.

[Bimmeristi]

Yes, have that atmega64 socket(black in photo), but that PCB(blue in photo) missing. I thought it include because seller says "adapter" when i bought it. But my opinion its just socket. With PCB can call adapter... SO i am looking that PCB only if there have separate available. Maybe some knows?

[tsmith35]

Waveshare provides the schematic for the blue board in their wiki...
https://www.waveshare.com/wiki/File:M64%2B_ADP.pdf

[kerouanton]

Hello all, I have a TL866-II Plus with its latest firmware and XgPro v11.30 (up to date), and want to make sure I didn't brick my microcontroler (PIC16F1938) used in a ATU-100 Antenna Tuner. I was able to read the chip Flash and Eeprom using ICSP, but when reprogramming with the new firmware it doesn't seem to boot any more (I'm still able to access the chip via XgPro anyway).

The issue may be due to the fact the PIC16F1938 is not listed in the supported IC list, so I created a new IC on XgPro based on a PIC16F1829 (it has the same flash and eeprom size according to the datasheets). Anyway I wanted to make sure it was a safe method. Is it possible to alter the custom IC configuration to change details such as voltage, pinout and more? I didn't see where.

Thanks,
Bruno

[TheSteve]

I don't know about your PIC issue but the newest PC software is version 11.90, if you really do have 11.30 you might want to update.

[kerouanton]

Thanks for the tip, I didn't realize it wasn't the latest version. I updated to 11.90 but this doesn't change anything. PIC16F1938 still isn't in the list of supported MCU's although I can read flash and eeprom info from it, so I'm trying to understand what I need else to make sure programming/writing can work.

[ebastler]

I don't think there is much you can do -- if a specific chip is not supported, it is not supported, unless there is an exactly equivalent chip type which you can select in the software. You might have messed up some fuse settings by programming it using a different PIC type on the TL866?

You mentioned that you could read the flash and EEPROM. Did you save the original contents, and have you tried writing them back to the PIC to see whether that brings it back to life?

[kerouanton]

Yes I can read the Flash and Eeprom, I also have the full HEX file for the original embedded firmware (and I know the values of the eeprom).

Nevertheless, I wonder if there is a timing issue when I reflash the firmware, as the few first bytes are not set as they should be. Here is a comparaison of the original firmware on the left, and what I read from the Flash on the right. This was after reflashing the chip, so I suppose maybe the PIC16F1938 wasn't ready to receive the first bytes over SCPI and started to write the firmware only after byte 0x40. But I'm probably not right.

[EDIT] Reflashing the MCU another time did fix this. But the MCU still doesn't start. Must not be related to the Xgecu TL866 

Last questions about creating custom ICs on the TL-866 :

1. When I read the flash ID, I get this result: "Read Device ID: 0x11D Rev=03". However I didn't find a correct way to put this information on the Add Custom IC. There is an editable field for "ID", I tried several ways but each time I re-read the MCU, XgPro complains the ID does not match: "Check ID Error! Checked ID is: 0x11D. Wish to continue programming, please cancel [Check device ID] option!". Disabling this option enables me to read/program the MCU, but I'm wondering how to avoid this and how to set a correct info in the custom IC to avoid this warning.

2. When creating a new Custom IC from an existing one, is it possible to increase the chip flash size? It is grayed out.