Author Topic: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review  (Read 834316 times)

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Offline bingo600

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #575 on: October 08, 2014, 04:42:41 pm »
I just installed

The programmer driver:
https://github.com/vdudouyt/minipro

And the GUI using the above programmer driver.
https://github.com/wd5gnr/qtl866

To make the GUI i installed QT5 in my Linux Mint17

The GUI didn't compile succesfully at first.
As toAscii() seemed to be deprecated in QT5

I'm a QT noob , but following an ansver on the "net"
I added
Code: [Select]
#include <QDataStream>
I also had to change this line

Code: [Select]
    QString cmdline=settings->value("option/editcmd","binhexedit -r").toString() +" " + ui->filename->text();
    system(cmdline.toAscii());
to
Code: [Select]
    QString cmdline=settings->value("option/editcmd","binhexedit -r").toString() +" " + ui->filename->text();
    system(cmdline.toLatin1());


Now it builds fine.

I havent tried it out for real yet , but it seems like a nice little gui.

Thanx to the authors  :-+

/Bingo

Edit: Note that the hexeditor mentioned as bliss on the GUI github is bless
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 04:47:48 pm by bingo600 »
 

Offline orion242

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #576 on: October 09, 2014, 12:02:06 am »
Anyone have issues writing to a Atmel AT29C010A?

Seems like it reads them fine, but writing them out it fails after just the first few bytes.  This is with version 6.1 of the software.
 

Offline ubistvo

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #577 on: October 28, 2014, 02:26:29 pm »
OK
Is any one try to write M35080
I try to read OK i try to write ERROR
First 2 row not erase
Can anyone tell me is it posible to do M35080 with TL866????
 

Offline abzman

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #578 on: October 29, 2014, 04:45:51 pm »
OK, so I had a friend who found it too onerous to read the whole thread for some answers... I suppose that's reasonable so I decided to boil it down.  Luckily someone was already hosting a wiki (seen earlier in this thread) and I decided to condense my takeaway there.  The wiki is minipro.txt.si

I had some account creation trouble and page editing trouble, but the site maintainer helped fix it in an incredibly timely manner (for me at least).  I consider it pretty much up to date as of this, page 39 of the thread. 

There are things that could be added:

bypassing overcurrent protection (how, and why)
more 'compatible' chips added to the list as they are discovered
things done to use non-compatible chips (pretend it's actually chip XX and up the voltage/change the pinout)
listing the chips and their respective programming algorithms
hosting the whole firmware and bootloader for the tl866cs/tl866a (may not be needed as I think the updater tool can generate them)
deconstruction of the chip pinout/algorithm file (I seem to remember this much earlier in the thread, of putting new chips into the list)
an examination of the primitives used on logic chips to design new chip tests/implement new algorithms PC side (I know it'd be slow)

I sorta drifted from 'things to add' to 'things to do' but if anyone thinks it needs updating just do it, that's what wikis are for. 

Evan Allen
 

Offline roybridge

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #579 on: October 29, 2014, 05:02:52 pm »
I definitely think it would be fantastic to have the section on unofficially supported chips. My first example would be the ST 27C1000 32-pin DIP which can be programmed if you select ST 27C1001 32-pin DIP but swap pins 2 and 24 :-)
 

Offline abzman

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #580 on: October 29, 2014, 05:16:21 pm »
There you go, I'll add the thread source attribution once I get off my phone (it makes for a pretty bad wiki editing platform)
 

Offline sv2hqx

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #581 on: October 30, 2014, 10:06:27 am »
OK
Is any one try to write M35080
I try to read OK i try to write ERROR
First 2 row not erase
Can anyone tell me is it posible to do M35080 with TL866????
I got on m35080 strange reaction's
Some of them v3 and v6 after many attempts finally programmed first 2 lines too
But not for all of my chips

Sent from my Optimus 4X HD using Tapatalk

 

Offline ubistvo

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #582 on: October 31, 2014, 01:24:29 pm »
OK
Is any one try to write M35080
I try to read OK i try to write ERROR
First 2 row not erase
Can anyone tell me is it posible to do M35080 with TL866????
I got on m35080 strange reaction's
Some of them v3 and v6 after many attempts finally programmed first 2 lines too
But not for all of my chips

Sent from my Optimus 4X HD using Tapatalk

AHA OK
I will try and post results
Thanks
 

Offline jinzo

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #583 on: November 01, 2014, 01:06:12 pm »
OK, so I had a friend who found it too onerous to read the whole thread for some answers... I suppose that's reasonable so I decided to boil it down.  Luckily someone was already hosting a wiki (seen earlier in this thread) and I decided to condense my takeaway there.  The wiki is minipro.txt.si

I had some account creation trouble and page editing trouble, but the site maintainer helped fix it in an incredibly timely manner (for me at least).  I consider it pretty much up to date as of this, page 39 of the thread. 

There are things that could be added:

bypassing overcurrent protection (how, and why)
more 'compatible' chips added to the list as they are discovered
things done to use non-compatible chips (pretend it's actually chip XX and up the voltage/change the pinout)
listing the chips and their respective programming algorithms
hosting the whole firmware and bootloader for the tl866cs/tl866a (may not be needed as I think the updater tool can generate them)
deconstruction of the chip pinout/algorithm file (I seem to remember this much earlier in the thread, of putting new chips into the list)
an examination of the primitives used on logic chips to design new chip tests/implement new algorithms PC side (I know it'd be slow)

I sorta drifted from 'things to add' to 'things to do' but if anyone thinks it needs updating just do it, that's what wikis are for. 

Evan Allen

Yes sorry for that, looks like an upgrade broke spam protection and it didn't work as advised. I'll set up some more detailed error reporting soon and hopefully people I'll be able to catch these errors fast enough. I also tweaked the spam protection so that it's active only on account creation and doesen't bother people once they have an account.

And another big thanks for all the help and effort!

OK
Is any one try to write M35080
I try to read OK i try to write ERROR
First 2 row not erase
Can anyone tell me is it posible to do M35080 with TL866????
I got on m35080 strange reaction's
Some of them v3 and v6 after many attempts finally programmed first 2 lines too
But not for all of my chips

Sent from my Optimus 4X HD using Tapatalk

AHA OK
I will try and post results
Thanks
As I'm sure you both know that those chips have the first few bytes increment-only protected. I'm not sure if TL866 even has the functionality to reset them - and even those programmers that have it don't work 100% all the time. But good luck and hope you'll report your findings here :) n
 

Offline abzman

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #584 on: November 03, 2014, 01:50:10 am »
Ok, tonight I found out that a friend's tsop48 adapter was fake.  I also found out that I didn't have exact instructions on how to fix it on the wiki, that's updated now.  The reverse engineered firmware worked great!
 

Offline redtop

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #585 on: November 12, 2014, 11:26:52 am »
Hello all!
I've been lurking here occationally, but nor I thought it was time to write something.

I'm doing some hobbyist work on car related electronics: ECUs, chiptuning etc. Up to now I've been using an Willem Eprom programmer I bought some years ago. It does the job OK, but it connects to the computer using a parallel port, and they are kind of rare on laptops these days. I thought a USB programmer would be more convenient so i got a TL866CS as a budget alternative. Got it of Ebay for US$ 47.68 including a bunch of adapters.

Now, I have been struggling a while trying to read a copy protected tuning chip for a friend. He bought an old Alfa Romeo 155Q4 needing lots of TLC and in the ECU was an unknown tuning chip (eprom). I took on the challenge to try and read the chip to see what has been changed, and possibly trace who did the tuning (some tuners leave a signature in an unused area of the chip).

On older ECUs with eproms in sockets, it's not uncommon that tuners use copy protection boards to make it a little harder for people to steal their intellectual property. There are some companies, like EVC.de, who sell such protection boards to tuners. It's basicly a socket with some circuit that mixes up memory data and address data so it can't be read in a normal eprom programmer. (Some pics are attached).
One theory I've read is that toggling the Chip Enable and Output Enable pins is the key to get around the copy protection, so I tried reading with an Arduino board where I could control those pins, but I didn't have any success. Another theory is that you need to read the copy protected chip fast to get pass the scrambling, and a eprom programmer is slower than the car ECU.

Anyhow, yesterday I got my TL866CS and just to test it i grabbed the nearest eprom which happened to be the copy protected chip for the 155Q4, and was I surprised when the TL866 somehow got around the copy protection and read the chip just as the ECU would!!!  :wtf: Well, not perfect, there was some random bit errors giving e.g. 04h when 84h was expected, but addressing seems to be correct.

Now a question for you experts:
My guess is that the bit errors is a timing thing. There isn't much parameters to twist in the MiniPro software, so I wonder if there is any timing difference depending on what type of chip I select? The chip here is an old 27c256 UV-erasable, and there is a load of different 27c types to choose from in the software, but would it make any difference? Is it worth trying all the different 27c types I can find in the MiniPro SW?

//RedTop
 

Offline sv2hqx

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #586 on: November 12, 2014, 11:38:45 am »
Hello all!
I've been lurking here occationally, but nor I thought it was time to write something.

I'm doing some hobbyist work on car related electronics: ECUs, chiptuning etc. Up to now I've been using an Willem Eprom programmer I bought some years ago. It does the job OK, but it connects to the computer using a parallel port, and they are kind of rare on laptops these days. I thought a USB programmer would be more convenient so i got a TL866CS as a budget alternative. Got it of Ebay for US$ 47.68 including a bunch of adapters.

Now, I have been struggling a while trying to read a copy protected tuning chip for a friend. He bought an old Alfa Romeo 155Q4 needing lots of TLC and in the ECU was an unknown tuning chip (eprom). I took on the challenge to try and read the chip to see what has been changed, and possibly trace who did the tuning (some tuners leave a signature in an unused area of the chip).

On older ECUs with eproms in sockets, it's not uncommon that tuners use copy protection boards to make it a little harder for people to steal their intellectual property. There are some companies, like EVC.de, who sell such protection boards to tuners. It's basicly a socket with some circuit that mixes up memory data and address data so it can't be read in a normal eprom programmer. (Some pics are attached).
One theory I've read is that toggling the Chip Enable and Output Enable pins is the key to get around the copy protection, so I tried reading with an Arduino board where I could control those pins, but I didn't have any success. Another theory is that you need to read the copy protected chip fast to get pass the scrambling, and a eprom programmer is slower than the car ECU.

Anyhow, yesterday I got my TL866CS and just to test it i grabbed the nearest eprom which happened to be the copy protected chip for the 155Q4, and was I surprised when the TL866 somehow got around the copy protection and read the chip just as the ECU would!!!  :wtf: Well, not perfect, there was some random bit errors giving e.g. 04h when 84h was expected, but addressing seems to be correct.

Now a question for you experts:
My guess is that the bit errors is a timing thing. There isn't much parameters to twist in the MiniPro software, so I wonder if there is any timing difference depending on what type of chip I select? The chip here is an old 27c256 UV-erasable, and there is a load of different 27c types to choose from in the software, but would it make any difference? Is it worth trying all the different 27c types I can find in the MiniPro SW?

//RedTop
If you r not hurry you can order from eBay 27sf256 (or find a winbond 27c256 from an old motherboard or VGA card)
They are electronically erasable and in boards that I tested are working well
Faster write and erase and supported from tl866

Sent from my Optimus 4X HD using Tapatalk
 

Offline redtop

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #587 on: November 12, 2014, 07:00:22 pm »
If you r not hurry you can order from eBay 27sf256 (or find a winbond 27c256 from an old motherboard or VGA card)
They are electronically erasable and in boards that I tested are working well
Faster write and erase and supported from tl866

Thank you, I'm aware of the EEPROMs compatible to the old 27c series. I have some in my drawer and have successfully used them in some ECUs.

Now, back to my question!  :)
 

Offline jinzo

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #588 on: November 12, 2014, 07:19:36 pm »
I don't think selecting a different 27* chip would be any good. Somewhere deep in this thread there's nateocean's and radiomans posts about how minipro implements different chips. They're grouped together by protocol and the chip itself supports only a handful of these "protocols" which are then used for all supported chips. Unfortunately I don't have the time to dig it up - and the info has not been yet properly stored in the wiki so I guess you'll have to find radioman's posts by yourself.
 

Offline janengelbrecht

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #589 on: November 14, 2014, 06:13:30 pm »
Best programmer ive ever owned. I do not miss out on anything...
My only small problem is that i miss some very old ICs. Well one could NOT expect to be able to program old PALs and so on...you cant buy the bloddy things any more.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2014, 07:37:01 pm by janengelbrecht »
 

Offline redtop

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #590 on: November 15, 2014, 07:34:18 pm »

Anyhow, yesterday I got my TL866CS and just to test it i grabbed the nearest eprom which happened to be the copy protected chip for the 155Q4, and was I surprised when the TL866 somehow got around the copy protection and read the chip just as the ECU would!!!  :wtf: Well, not perfect, there was some random bit errors giving e.g. 04h when 84h was expected, but addressing seems to be correct.
//RedTop

If the ECU is designed to see a "normal" EPROM then the copy protection board will still have to present a "normal" looking EPROM to the ECU and hence also to an EPROM programmer. So I would not expect reading the copy protected EPROM in a programmer to be a problem. Of course I have never tried to. Deciphering the scrambled non standard bit arrangement might be a little more challenging. The first thing I would try is to burn an EPROM with sequences of 00h to FFx and 256 bytes of 00h followed by 256bytes of 01h and so on in the programmer and then try reading it back when mounted on the copy protection board. Compare the two resulting files and see if you can recognise a pattern to provide some clues as to what is going on. I do not expect it to be too sophisticated.

As for the "random" bit errors. Are you saying they are random because you didn't see a pattern, perhaps because you didn't carefully look for one, or that you did look for one and found none? For example are all bitn locked at 0 or at 1. This may suggest a faulty socket connection.

The whole idea with the copy protection boards is that the they are transparent to the ECU but not to an eprom programmer. My old Willem just reads garbage and so does the Arduino board I've been using, but the TL866 seems to behave like an ECU in this case, reading the data unscrambled.

When I say random bit errors I mean that they appear at random addresses. If I read the chip several times I get errors at different addresses. It seems to be the same bit that fails all the times, as the read value differs with 80h.

I did some experimenting with different "VCC verify" and got bit errors on less addresses with higher voltage. I can compare the read with the original eprom dump for this engine, it's just a small part of the content that is changed by the tuner (look up tables a.k.a maps for fuel injection, inigition, turbo pressure etc.).  I estimate that I now have less than ten bit errors on the whole chip, and that makes it possible to analyze what the tuner has changed, so it's good enough for me.
 

Offline janengelbrecht

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #591 on: November 16, 2014, 01:56:12 am »
I surely would wish that the manufacturer of this programmer would release the source code...would be nice to be able to hack it to get it to support a lot more :)

Well.....the trees are not growing into heaven....

Offline tibimakai

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #592 on: November 20, 2014, 10:16:49 pm »
Anybody in LA area, that can try out a TSOP 48 Toshiba nand flash(TC58NVG1S3ETA10), if it can recognize it or not? I would appreciate it a lot.
 

Offline ubistvo

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #593 on: November 25, 2014, 10:01:25 pm »
OK I again need your help from one old post here
""I am Zoran from SERBIA
I also buy TL866CS but i did not get PSOP44 adapter and now i need so much
I asking is anybody here have schematic for adapter PSOP44 i have main board V3 TSOP48 SOP44 I just need how to connect 29f400 to read and write.
I buy some adapter PSOP44(http://www.programatory.com/niemcy/data/adapterypl/psop44zifdip44/psop44zifdip44a.jpg)
and just need to connect here(http://i01.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/755/826/490/490826755_843.jpg)
Thank you"""
And i still not buy original board so is anyone have schematic pin out for this board or if someone is not to boring just to looking on his PSOP44 board and just put me here the numbers where go what (like on this picture )
I know this :
Board                         Flash

 23          --                10
 24          --                 9
 21          --                 8
 22          --                 7
 25          --                11

So can some one help me

Thank you
« Last Edit: November 25, 2014, 10:04:47 pm by ubistvo »
 

Offline HScan

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #594 on: November 28, 2014, 12:20:02 am »
Hello,
i used the tl866cs and see problems, here i give my experience and the turnarround...
All is not not contact good pins...

I try to prog a 16F877 old PIC, and it does not work, an other not use the same but on a beeprog (1000€), all is ok.
I find the schematic of the tl and find problems.
First I see can the pulse clock send by the tl866cs,on RB6/7 to the pic are not all the same,
in 16 clock block the first and the last are very shorter than the others, with data.
If the time is correct the up time is slow. But it is software and nothing to do.
Now for enter to prog, you must apply a 13V+-0.5V on MCLR, the Vpp supply is 12.9, but with R at 5%?,
the Vpp value can change from tl866 to other.
Just after it is the limiter, and you lost supply, 0.3 by a diode, 0.1 by the Q9 and by R3 of 3 ohms.
If the voltage is 0.6V the current limiting and overcurrent go on.
But with this lost, you are under 12.5V, at MCLR on, a dip surge can be see. You can no enter in the prog mode.
To have a good supply, the soluce is to connect the feedback resistor R8 33K to D8 anode (Q9), cut on C14.
Now the supply conpensate the voltage lost of the detector of the limiter, the security is active because Q9 is outside of the feedback. I try also to put a 2,2uF/50V in // on C20.
But nothing for the prog of the PIC 16F877!.
The next is the better...
The pic 18F87J50 in your tl866 control all and must be supply at 3.3V open the tl866, see the 3.3v chip suply regulator..
But during read, prog.. you see the supply up at approx 3.6, its normal because when Q8 is off but it is not good for the life of the chip. Why up the supply?.
If you read the pic datasheet, you see that on RB6 and 7, the input use schmit trigger and the "one" is at 0.8*Vcc,4V min with 5V supply Vcc.
The 18F87J50 is supply with 3.3V, cannot give 4V, but it is more possible with 3.6V...
Now you must see shematic: the supply Vcc, with a voltmeter put the power(USB), and with a voltmeter you see Vcc on the pin.Now, select a pic, 16F877 for example, select no check device ID and do a read. The Vcc change and up (may be zero at first time when you connect). I see 5,3V.
But it is high, and the signal of 18F87J50 is too low...
Bingo it was the problem!!.
At first I solder 2 pull up on RB6 and RB7, and bingo I can read, erase and prog the PIC16F877!!.
But solder on a chip to program it is bad!!.
The soluce is to reduce the Vcc supply.
The power UP because Q5 tunr on, and put a 6K8, the soluce is to adjust the value, I put in serie a pot of  4,7K (in resistor).
Now at 0, Vcc= 5.3V (not work the same before),but at  4,7V at max (4K7) and for the middle 4,9V it is ok.
And now no problemo the prog is ok, and not a contacts problems...

I solve my problem for the PIC 16F877, for the others you can use this story to try to find why, and not to think that it is the contact...

In fact the design is not so good, but for the price....



 

Offline TheEnd

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #595 on: November 28, 2014, 01:34:08 am »

Anyhow, yesterday I got my TL866CS and just to test it i grabbed the nearest eprom which happened to be the copy protected chip for the 155Q4, and was I surprised when the TL866 somehow got around the copy protection and read the chip just as the ECU would!!!  :wtf: Well, not perfect, there was some random bit errors giving e.g. 04h when 84h was expected, but addressing seems to be correct.
//RedTop

If the ECU is designed to see a "normal" EPROM then the copy protection board will still have to present a "normal" looking EPROM to the ECU and hence also to an EPROM programmer. So I would not expect reading the copy protected EPROM in a programmer to be a problem. Of course I have never tried to. Deciphering the scrambled non standard bit arrangement might be a little more challenging. The first thing I would try is to burn an EPROM with sequences of 00h to FFx and 256 bytes of 00h followed by 256bytes of 01h and so on in the programmer and then try reading it back when mounted on the copy protection board. Compare the two resulting files and see if you can recognise a pattern to provide some clues as to what is going on. I do not expect it to be too sophisticated.

As for the "random" bit errors. Are you saying they are random because you didn't see a pattern, perhaps because you didn't carefully look for one, or that you did look for one and found none? For example are all bitn locked at 0 or at 1. This may suggest a faulty socket connection.

The whole idea with the copy protection boards is that the they are transparent to the ECU but not to an eprom programmer. My old Willem just reads garbage and so does the Arduino board I've been using, but the TL866 seems to behave like an ECU in this case, reading the data unscrambled.

When I say random bit errors I mean that they appear at random addresses. If I read the chip several times I get errors at different addresses. It seems to be the same bit that fails all the times, as the read value differs with 80h.

I did some experimenting with different "VCC verify" and got bit errors on less addresses with higher voltage. I can compare the read with the original eprom dump for this engine, it's just a small part of the content that is changed by the tuner (look up tables a.k.a maps for fuel injection, inigition, turbo pressure etc.).  I estimate that I now have less than ten bit errors on the whole chip, and that makes it possible to analyze what the tuner has changed, so it's good enough for me.


I've seen similar, I've usually put it down to a poor connection on a pin, I'd often find something like all 4's were now 7's or something.

Anyway, as far as I know, the encryption boards look out for a sequential read and that's how they spot the difference between a programmer and a processor.
Yes, it's going to read the main program code on boot, so it's probably just the calibration area that is set to only allow random bursts and spit out junk if everything is being read out in order.

I've come across a protection board before when an ECU wouldn't reflash, opened it up, and there it was. Reading wasn't an issue at all, so it was a bit pointless.

It's possible the TL866 might read in random bursts by design, but I think that is the key.
 

Offline vortex

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #596 on: December 11, 2014, 10:55:11 pm »
hi everybody
i have tl866cs design 2014 transforms to tl866a version with help of radioman tl866 update my problem is i can't program atmega8A via icsp i suppose that latest version of tl866cs has changed or there is other problems
the icsp connector pins are correct
on the software it given me id error or bad contact
i incheck devise id and it read it but its show no data
please help
photo
 

Offline sv2hqx

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #597 on: December 12, 2014, 08:03:57 am »
check you connections to  correct pins
had some similar and rx tx was wrong
 

Offline vortex

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #598 on: December 12, 2014, 10:56:43 am »
all connections are good
 

Offline le_stauss

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Re: EEVblog #411 - MiniPro TL866 Universal Programmer Review
« Reply #599 on: December 21, 2014, 02:25:35 pm »
Hi,
can you check voltage or signal with scope ?
Do you use external supply when you program your chip ?
bye
 


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