EEVblog #432 - Brymen Multimeters

[IanB]

Nice looking meters - shame they're not more widely available.

But I don't get it - why do you make such a fuss about fuse access? How often are you going to need to replace fuses in the life of a meter? It's not like it should be a weekly or monthly event, unless you are one of the clumsiest people out there.

[Lightages]

Brymens are available rebranded and sometimes re-cased  in the US as Extech, Amprobe, Greenlee and as Minipa in Brazil. The Greenlees are twice as much as the Brymen and the Brazilian Minipas are up to three times as expensive.

One way to get the Brymen at a reasonable price in Europe is to buy from tme.eu in Poland. Don't expect great follow up on your purchase but it will probably arrive. Forget trying to get a Brymen at a normal price in South America, just order from tme.eu, or buy a BM257 from iloveelectronics here on the forum for a reasonable price.

How you get one in Oz, I don't know. In the US the Amprobes and Extechs seem to be the best way to get a "Brymen".

After owning my BM869 I would not hesitate to recommend it to anyone in any field short of someone working where IP67 is needed or for explosive environments as it is not rated for these uses, but get a set of better leads or a probe kit from Fluke or Probemaster.

I will wait for Dave to make a proper review before picking on things he missed.

[EEVblog]

But I don't get it - why do you make such a fuss about fuse access? How often are you going to need to replace fuses in the life of a meter? It's not like it should be a weekly or monthly event, unless you are one of the clumsiest people out there.

a) Because it's stupid.
b) Because other meters have good fuse access.

Dave.

[Fsck]

I'm in Canada, but I agree with Lightages, tme.eu is a wonderful source for the BM86x. Ironic it's cheaper to get them from Europe than from Taiwan through Frankie.

[janoc]

One way to get the Brymen at a reasonable price in Europe is to buy from tme.eu in Poland. Don't expect great follow up on your purchase but it will probably arrive. Forget trying to get a Brymen at a normal price in South America, just order from tme.eu, or buy a BM257 from iloveelectronics here on the forum for a reasonable price.

I have recently got BM867 (the cheaper version of the BM869 with no temperature measurement) from tme.eu and no problem whatsoever. Ordered on 8th February, it arrived in about 3 days to France by DHL or UPS (don't remember which one right now). The shipping was reasonable, a little less than 10EUR, total 168EUR, VAT included. TME ships worldwide and they are quite a large and established (since 1990) electronics distributor in Poland, so I wouldn't be worried too much.

Jan

[Kompost]

Most hobbyists here stock on stuff in TME, glad to hear they're getting popular abroad. Ordered from them more then five times now, never had any problems. 28.02 is also TME's gift day, so if you'll order today, you'll get a bonus   

[rsjsouza]

Very nice short review, Dave. I have a 857 and agree with the ridiculous backlight... They use diffusers for panel lighting since the 50's! This may ask for a 

Another detail: although the manuals of these DMMs are really simple, at least they are written in english...

But I don't get it - why do you make such a fuss about fuse access? How often are you going to need to replace fuses in the life of a meter? It's not like it should be a weekly or monthly event, unless you are one of the clumsiest people out there.

Despite what the other brands offer, I agree with that, especially because these have the alarm that indicates the probe is inserted in the wrong input - and yes, I am clumsy as I blew the 440mA fuse on my 179 more than once due to lack of attention... 

How you get one in Oz, I don't know. In the US the Amprobes and Extechs seem to be the best way to get a "Brymen".

Yes, Extech is cheaper than Greenlee, but I found the 860 model only on the Greenlee product line.   

the Brazilian Minipas are up to three times as expensive.

Yes, unfortunately Brazil's import taxes are really high (60%) and therefore some companies established there take advantage and charge a ridiculous markup... 

[poorchava]

BM869 really seems nice. 500k counts is extraordinary for a handheld meter, and totally insane for that price (I guess like 1/4 or 1/5 of new Fluke 289?).

Too bad I can't justify spending that kind of money on a meter right now .


As for TME: as Kompost said - TME is probably the only reputable supplier of electronic stuff in Poland, that has a broad range of products. There is also Farnell, but like half of things has to be shipped directly from US with $30 handling fee. The is actually my main supplier for all electronic parts (maybe there are 2 other companies, but I buy there only occasionally).

[nanofrog]

Yes, Extech is cheaper than Greenlee, but I found the 860 model

The Greenlee DM860A is the same as the BM869.

Given what's available in the US however, there are better values for the same funds. Take an Agilent U1252B for example, as it has a longer warranty, better support, and they tend to run deals, such as including a free Bluetooth adapter for PC communication. Better value for the same amount of money IMHO. 

[T4P]

I'm loving the BM869's voltage display rate in single display AS WELL AS 500000 count mode, given that i'm spoilt by display update rate since the VC8145 or even U1273AX arrived i rarely reach for my UT61Es anymore 

[ivaylo]

I've got the 857 (no A) from eBay, US seller (no other way to get them in the US), a bit under $100 delivered. It is CAT III 1000V, 0.03%DC though. This what the 'A' model must be improving on. Really nice meter. I think I even like it better than my Agilent U1233A (horrible menu system). I wish I could find the IR serial adapter for the Brymen.

[nanofrog]

I've got the 857 (no A) from eBay, US seller (no other way to get them in the US), a bit under $100 delivered. It is CAT III 1000V, 0.03%DC though. This what the 'A' model must be improving on. Really nice meter. I think I even like it better than my Agilent U1233A (horrible menu system). I wish I could find the IR serial adapter for the Brymen.

Says its for the BM25x series, but I suspect it will fit ... http://www.ebay.com/itm/200874533628?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

[Smokey]

Like I've posted elsewhere, I also have the 857 (no A), which I've been using for a number of months now. 
They upgraded a couple things that are obvious. 
1) The first of which is they upgraded the fuses.  The non-A has the smaller 3AG size but they are ceramic, not glass.  Same blast shields, just smaller diameter and ceramic fuses.  Even with the smaller fuses, I'm not worried about it blowing up.  Those ceramics can take a beating, plus I don't plan on using this meter for measuring high currents.  I have better ways of doing that.
2) On the non-A version, you have to take the whole back cover off to change the 9V battery.  This is one of those stupid things which is obvious they needed to change, and they added that battery door in the A version.  I don't really care since I'm pretty good about turning off the meter when I'm not using it, but it does suck 5mA from a 9V battery under normal operation.  Not the best power consumption.  Not super terrible either.  I'm still running on the original battery.

About the back light, ya it blows.  It doesn't look like they changed it at all from the non-A to the A.  But here is my take on backlights on multimeters.  This 857 is an electronics design meter.  I can't think of any situation where the lighting on your lab bench is so bad you need to turn the backlight on.  I've never turned a backlight on any multimeter at work that I can remember at least.  Now if this was an electricians meter and you were planning on crawling under houses rewiring patio lights or something, then ya, I can see where you might want a backlight. 
At least the non-A version I have isn't quite as bad as Dave made it look in the video.  It's crappy, but it's also marginally functional.  With the backlight on you can read the display in a dark room.  It's not super bright and crystal clear, but its readable.

** I just saw that last post about the IR serial adapter.  I don't think that adapter is compatible with the 857.  That one has a long tab that fits in a slot in the BM25X meters.  The adapter for the 857 is shorter and has two wings that rotate into the housing on the meter.  I bet it would work, but it would take a lot of duct tape.

[KedasProbe]

But I don't get it - why do you make such a fuss about fuse access? How often are you going to need to replace fuses in the life of a meter? It's not like it should be a weekly or monthly event, unless you are one of the clumsiest people out there.

a) Because it's stupid.
b) Because other meters have good fuse access.

Dave.

It's 'nice' to have easy access but at the same time I would not pay more for a multimeter just to have easy access, so if they can keep the cost down this way, then leave it like it is.
Funny video:

[longview]

Looks like the 500k count meters still only resolve 10mOhm/10pF/10uV? If so you'd be better off getting a U1272/3 for electronics use IMO.

[Postal666]

a) Because it's stupid.
b) Because other meters have good fuse access.

 
There's the good ol' Dave from the "rant" days.  Honest and to the point!  Why risk exposing the guts of your meter over a fuse change, when a bit more effort in the design process is all that's needed?  In a $10 meter, maybe....but anything $100+ with blast protection so well done, we should expect more, imho.

[rsjsouza]

Looks like the 500k count meters still only resolve 10mOhm/10pF/10uV? If so you'd be better off getting a U1272/3 for electronics use IMO.

The 500k mode is for frequency and DC voltages only. It yields 1µV DC resolution (I forgot how much for frequency).

The Greenlee DM860A is the same as the BM869.

That is what I meant; I couldn't find BM86x DMMs on the Extech product line, only on Greenlee.

[Tepe]

Elma BM869

[IanB]

There's the good ol' Dave from the "rant" days.  Honest and to the point!  Why risk exposing the guts of your meter over a fuse change, when a bit more effort in the design process is all that's needed?  In a $10 meter, maybe....but anything $100+ with blast protection so well done, we should expect more, imho.

A DMM fuse change is a once in a lifetime event--one that hasn't yet happened in my lifetime (says me, tempting fate).

Why would I want to reduce the mechanical integrity of the meter and increase the cost over a feature that I will never need?

Leave the Flukes to get thrown around the factory floor gathering dirt and abused by people who don't care for them, and let precision instruments sit on the design engineer's desk where they will be well looked after.

[rsjsouza]

A few things missing on the mini-review; the 85x has two "OFF" positions: one on each side of the rotary switch, which is somewhat convenient. Also, the rubber jacket of the 85x protects the rotary switch in case it falls flat on the floor - are the '257 and the '86x similar?

Leave the Flukes to get thrown around the factory floor gathering dirt and abused by people who don't care for them

Hehehe... Brymens are indeed not Flukes...

[iloveelectronics]

Also, the rubber jacket of the 85x protects the rotary switch in case it falls flat on the floor - are the '257 and the '86x similar?

No.

[nukie]

Thumbs up for Made in Taiwan.

[Lightages]

Elma BM869

Looks like they want 50% more for the Elma name.....

[Lightages]

Looks like the 500k count meters still only resolve 10mOhm/10pF/10uV? If so you'd be better off getting a U1272/3 for electronics use IMO.

If you want to spend the 50% more to get one. The Fluke 87V seems to be lacking the same resolutions BTW.

[Spawn]

Also, the rubber jacket of the 85x protects the rotary switch in case it falls flat on the floor

Nope, it does not  the rotary switch sticks out just one millimeter, at least on Extech MM570A which is also a 85x series, rotary switch looks different but I dont think it is higher on Extech but I could be wrong.

[Spawn]

Dave, you say in the video the BM857A is rebadged as Extech MM570A but it is actually rebadged as Extech MM560A. The Brymen BM859CFa is one with 2 temperature readings like BM869 and is rebadged as MM570A 

_{Did anyone understood anything from what I wrote? Because, I am getting dizzy with all these numbers...} 

[EEVblog]

Dave, you say in the video the BM857A is rebadged as Extech MM570A but it is actually rebadged as Extech MM560A. The Brymen BM859CFa is one with 2 temperature readings like BM869 and is rebadged as MM570A 

Yes, I stand corrected. The BM857A is sold as an Extech MM560A

Dave.

[rsjsouza]

Nope, it does not 

Spawn, I guess Extech goofed up... The Brymen has one millimeter clearance (I hope the picture is clear).

Obviously this clearance may mean nothing depending on the height of the fall (and the compression of the rubber jacket).

[Spawn]

Spawn, I guess Extech goofed up... The Brymen has one millimeter clearance (I hope the picture is clear).

Picture is clear  and Extech is indeed ... 
^{(I hope my picture is clear too, took it with a cell phone)}

[BravoV]

Extech is indeed ... 

Well, if you're really desperate, this surely will fix that problem  , c'mon, 1 mm isn't that much !   .... j/k

[nanofrog]

** I just saw that last post about the IR serial adapter.  I don't think that adapter is compatible with the 857.  That one has a long tab that fits in a slot in the BM25X meters.  The adapter for the 857 is shorter and has two wings that rotate into the housing on the meter.  I bet it would work, but it would take a lot of duct tape.

Can't tell from the pic if the cable has groves on the outside edges (thin ends) or not to fit the "wings" on the back of the BM857 (I have one).  Figured from a systems POV, they'd try to use a single interface cable for all of their models, but can't tell for sure. 

A few things missing on the mini-review; the 85x has two "OFF" positions: one on each side of the rotary switch, which is somewhat convenient.

But if you're not accustomed to 2 OFF positions like me, it won't matter. I always end up turning it counter-clockwise to turn it OFF. 

[Spawn]

Well, if you're really desperate, this surely will fix that problem  , c'mon, 1 mm isn't that much !   .... j/k

_{picture of a BIG file}

LOL, I am not that desprate 

But if you're not accustomed to 2 OFF positions like me, it won't matter. I always end up turning it counter-clockwise to turn it OFF. 

Same here nanofrog, I never end up at the clockwise position when i turn it off.

[Postal666]

A DMM fuse change is a once in a lifetime event--

Yeah, I get that.  My guess would be that the 9V "battery at the end of the meter" design limits the options for rear panel access.   

Hell, what do I know? My only DMM is a Radio Shack 22-168a that I bought in HS in the mid 90's.   

[zaoka]

Dave, you have REC and CREST modes for MinMax. Rec is regular MinMax while Crest they use for Peak detection (faster update speed, its like Peak on Fluke 87V).

Limitation for Brymen BM257 are:

Capacity only up to 3000uF
Diode range only up to 1.000V

[Lightages]

While scanning posts, I remembered that Kiriakos had mentioned that the Sanwa PC7000 used the same PC connector as the Brymen. Perhaps Sanwa is another Brymen re-badge/re-case.

As far as dropping a multmeter face down, everyone seems to forget that the leads will most likely be attached an they will hit before the dial does.

[Amarbir[Lynx-India]]

@ All Indians ,
      I Have figured out how to sell these in india .Lets see what all models we have here would take a weeks time frame to get more info  .

[Tepe]

Elma BM869

Looks like they want 50% more for the Elma name.....

But you get a nice green rubber jacket instead of the red one... 

DKK 2075 + 25% Danish VAT = DKK 2593.75 (~€350) plus shipping from elma.dk.
I paid €224.69 plus shipping from TME for my Brymen BM869 a year ago, so yeah, that green jacket is expensive.

[T4P]

While scanning posts, I remembered that Kiriakos had mentioned that the Sanwa PC7000 used the same PC connector as the Brymen. Perhaps Sanwa is another Brymen re-badge/re-case.

As far as dropping a multmeter face down, everyone seems to forget that the leads will most likely be attached an they will hit before the dial does.

I wouldn't think so, the sanwa PC7000 is orange backlight and it's rather old now and has a slightly different layout.
Copy maybe? I know mostly Sanwa makes their own stuff

Elma BM869

Urgh, the neon green jacket is awful. It makes the BM86* look very ricer-ish

[NiHaoMike]

Why can't more meters have built in charging using the current jack like the Agilent ones?

[Tepe]

Urgh, the neon green jacket is awful.

It is, eh, different.

(I am not sure it is neon green. It could just be the lighting.)

[Clayton]

I've got the same meter as the MB857A except its branded as the AMPROBE AM-270.
Backlight is crappy as shown but cost me US$80.00.

[Lightages]

Actually the AM-270 is a re-cased and re-branded BM815.

[John_Edward]

Hey, how does the 500000 count work with the accuracy and voltage ranges ?
The specs say "DC voltage measuring range - 0,01m...500m/5/50/500/1000V" and "DC voltage measuring accuracy - ±(0,02% + 2 digits)"
For example, if I measure a LiPo cell that is exactly 4.2 volts, what does the meter say ?
This is how I see it, but I'm not that sure myself:

Voltage is under 5V, so I get "4.<decimals>".
Accuracy is "±0.02%", so error there is 0.00084V.
The +2 counts means the last digit can be smaller or bigger by 2.
500000 count means the first number can be between 0 and 5 (maybe 0-4?), with total of 6 numbers on the screen.

So TL;DR:
On the BM869, would a spot on 4.2V measure as something between 4.20086 and 4,19914V ?

[alm]

I can't find it in the datasheet, but I would expect the accuracy specs to be for 50k counts mode, so the offset uncertainty would be +/- 20d in 500k counts mode. This is typical for handhelds (the Fluke 87V does the same), and +2d sounds very optimistic for a 500k count meter.

[Wytnucls]

Alm got it right. Accuracy is no better in 500,000 count mode. The only benefit is an increase in resolution.

[John_Edward]

Hmmh...
Is the accuracy and count difference constant, or do they change ?
So if I have two 4.2V cells, can the other say 4.20104 (+0.02% +20d), and then right after the other says 4,19896V (-0.02% -20d).
Or is it so that with 4.2V, it always shows +0.015% and -9d, at least until the calibration drifts over time ?

[alm]

You can usually expect short term stability to be much better than long term stability. So two cells measured as 4.20104 V within five minutes from each other are likely much closer than +/- 0.02% +/- 20d. You can usually also expect a cell that measures 4.20114 V to have a higher voltage than one measured 4.20104 V (ADCs in DMMs are often monotonic).

I wouldn't extend this to assume that the deviation will be constant across its entire ADC range, this will also depend on properties like linearity, which are not necessarily guaranteed.

[robrenz]

Hmmh...
Is the accuracy and count difference constant, or do they change ?
So if I have two 4.2V cells, can the other say 4.20104 (+0.02% +20d), and then right after the other says 4,19896V (-0.02% -20d).
Or is it so that with 4.2V, it always shows +0.015% and -9d, at least until the calibration drifts over time ?

That would be answered by the stability and repeatbility of the reading. How many digits of bobble is there and what is the scatter of multiple tests of the same voltage over a short time span.  At high resolutions if you dont have some form of averaging there can be a lot of bobble of the least significant digits.  IMO unless a meter is real junk the error amount and direction will be consistent other than long term drift.

Edit: Sorry Alm, you type faster than me.

[IanB]

Hmmh...
Is the accuracy and count difference constant, or do they change ?
So if I have two 4.2V cells, can the other say 4.20104 (+0.02% +20d), and then right after the other says 4,19896V (-0.02% -20d).
Or is it so that with 4.2V, it always shows +0.015% and -9d, at least until the calibration drifts over time ?

In my experience, most meters read exactly the same from one minute to the next, and from one day to the next. Readings can drift over weeks and months, and will vary with temperature. Once you get down to the sub-mV digits they will also jump around due to ambient electric fields, thermal effects, and the test leads acting like antennas.

For example, here is a picture I took about one year ago:



Here is the same meter reading the same voltage source today:



There has been some change as you can see. I didn't control the temperature, so some difference might be due to the room temperature being different. The rest would be accounted for by drift in the meter or drift in the voltage reference.

[BravoV]

When it comes to reading digital measurement results, my way.. (probably a lot of others as well) .. always ignore the least significant digit, then your life will be happier and your nerves will be more relax.   

Also try to train and develop the mental for ignoring the last digit, that will help too. 

[John_Edward]

I did some comparing of the BM867 and BM869 from the datasheet.

The short version:         
Do you work with voltages over 600V and/or AC frequencies over 20kHz, if yes, get the BM869.      
If not, take a look and see if the differences are worth the 40% increase in price.   

Code: [Select]

(rough specs) BM869 BM867 Difference
Price (23% VAT) 205 € 145 € 60 €
Input Protection 1000V 600V 400V
AC Band 100kHz 1kHz (20kHz -3dB) 99kHz
Temperature Yes, Dual No

DC Volts 0.02-0.15% 2d 0.03-0.15% 2d 0.01%
AC Volts 0.35-1.5% 0.8-2.0% 0.45-0.5%
Hz range 20Hz - 100kHz 45Hz - 1kHz (20kHz) 25Hz & 99kHz

AC Curr 0.5-2.0% 50d 1.0% 40d 0.5%
Hz range 50Hz - 10kHz 50Hz - 1kHz 9kHz
Max current 20A / 30sec 15A / 30sec 5A

Ohms 0.07-2.0% 2-10d 0.1-2.0% 2-10d 0.03%

Datasheet can be found here : http://www.tme.eu/en/Document/aa703d3b31d7e20292dd7331fab4a964/BM869.pdf

[KedasProbe]

This link gives you the full PDF with the main differences shown on the second page.
http://www.brymen.com/product-html/cata860/BM860_Catalog.pdf
You forgot about the VFD feature (means extra filters in this setting)

[T4P]

Improved accuracy too. 

[Fezder]

Nice looking meters, gotta be on lookout for them. Never heard brand thought, but doesn't mean anything .
That which had B/L issue was bit surpise, otherwise seemed good meter but B/L such disappointment.

[Maister]

Hven't heard of Brymen Multimeters before.. Are they not so common in Germany perhaps ?

Very nice backlight! :D:D

Looking really forward for the shootout =)

[Uffe]

Just orderd the BM867 from tme.eu can't wait to get my hand on it!

[Fezder]

cool, tell your opinion when it arrives, not that i don't care Dave's review, its just nice to read other thoughts too .
And how much did it cost?

[opty]

After owning my BM869 I would not hesitate to recommend it to anyone in any field short of someone working where IP67 is needed or for explosive environments as it is not rated for these uses, but get a set of better leads or a probe kit from Fluke or Probemaster.

Interesting, the guy why reviewed 869 here http://www.ittsb.eu/brymen%20bm869.html actually liked the leads.

Quoting:
"The BM869 comes with high quality test leads, better than the one found on the BM867 (non industrial version).
Rubberise feeling on the test leads, shrouded banana plugs, soft silicone on the cables, and the leads tips are convertible to:"


Another question (as I never had high quality leads myself): Which one would you recommend?

[nanofrog]

Interesting, the guy why reviewed 869 here http://www.ittsb.eu/brymen%20bm869.html actually liked the leads.

Quoting:
"The BM869 comes with high quality test leads, better than the one found on the BM867 (non industrial version).
Rubberise feeling on the test leads, shrouded banana plugs, soft silicone on the cables, and the leads tips are convertible to:"


Another question (as I never had high quality leads myself): Which one would you recommend?

IIRC, he was sent an upgraded set of test leads with the meter (they offer such options as an ODM for other companies).

The leads I got with the Brymen I have (BM857), aren't that great, and didn't give good readings. Continuity in particular was really scratchy. Plugged in better lead sets, and those issues were reduced or gone entirely (depending on the leads I tested with). Not a huge deal, but it does add another ~$15 or so + shipping for a decent set (Pomona, Fluke, Probemaster for example).

As per the two units (BM867 or BM869), the meters themselves will come down to what features you need (i.e. 867 is missing the VFD and temperature features, has a lower bandwidth, is rated for 600V protections instead of 1kV, and is slightly less accurate <0.03% instead of 0.02% DC accuracy>). Take a look at page 2 (http://www.brymen.com/product-html/cata860/BM860_Catalog.pdf).

[LaurenceW]

Fues access - i have a number of meters, and manage to blow one 10A fuse every few months or so. External access (via a battery/fuse cover) is a better bet than distrurbing the insides of the meter, and unscrewing those self-tappers-into-plastic, which are only good for a few times' use.

And the "I don't blow fuses, because I don't measure hight current" argument doesn't work for most people either - I tend to blow 10A fuses when I was INTENDING to measure voltage, while the meter leads were still plugged into the current socket... 

[Fezder]

Fues access - i have a number of meters, and manage to blow one 10A fuse every few months or so. External access (via a battery/fuse cover) is a better bet than distrurbing the insides of the meter, and unscrewing those self-tappers-into-plastic, which are only good for a few times' use.

And the "I don't blow fuses, because I don't measure hight current" argument doesn't work for most people either - I tend to blow 10A fuses when I was INTENDING to measure voltage, while the meter leads were still plugged into the current socket... 

i hope i dont even witness measuring voltage with current setting....well, there was one close call at school thought: my buddy was checking did mains fuse blow, not even looked settings :S. and, our meters DON'T even have any cind of fuse in 10amp side. My heart skipped beat that moment .

[Spawn]

I tend to blow 10A fuses when I was INTENDING to measure voltage, while the meter leads were still plugged into the current socket... 

If you do that frequently, you should consider to get a Gossen Metrawatt.

I never blew up a 10A fuse but I did blew up couple 400mA fuses in my career because of unexpected current while I was measuring.

[nanofrog]

I did blew up couple 400mA fuses

I've done this before as well, but for the same reason as LaurenceW (forgot to move the red banana from mA to V socket and went to measure voltage    ).

[rsjsouza]

And the "I don't blow fuses, because I don't measure hight current" argument doesn't work for most people either - I tend to blow 10A fuses when I was INTENDING to measure voltage, while the meter leads were still plugged into the current socket... 

If you switched the rotary dial to read voltage but forgot the probes on current, definitely Gossens and Brymens will help - Gossens physically prevent switching to the wrong range, and Brymens beep frantically.

If, however, you simply put the probes without paying attention to the settings on the DMM, then I guess there is no mechanism to prevent that...

I am from a time when fail safe mechanisms were absolutely non-existent and attention and double-checking were your only protection... Time of the analog VOMs where an inverted polarity, an overvoltage/overcurrent or voltage applied on ohms range were mostly fatal to the equipment... I am glad these things exist nowadays...

[Hydrawerk]

Is Brymen BM829 really CAT IV 1000V meter when it has only 600V protection on all inputs? I am confused a lot. What do you think?
http://www.brymen.com/product-html/cata820/BM820_Catalog.pdf
Is BM829S different?
http://www.tme.eu/gb/details/bm829/portable-digital-multimeters/brymen/bm829s/

[Hydrawerk]

I found a box photo. It seems that BM829S is 1000V CATIV on all inputs. The online catalog is probably obsolete. http://www.brymen.com/product-html/cata820/Bm820L3.htm

[Hydrawerk]

Any thoughts, please?

[Lightages]

I can confirm that the BM829S is fully compliant with the latest IEC requirements for CATIV/1000V. All Brymen meters have been updated to meet the new IEC requirements.

[Hydrawerk]

I wonder how solid these PCBs are with all that cutouts. Especially when the input jacks are soldered into the PCB.

[Hydrawerk]

These Fluke multimeters look more solid. The PCBs can hardly break.

[Hydrawerk]

Here is the datasheet for BM829S
http://brymen.eu/wp-content/uploads/biall/102083/102083.KARTA_EN..2015-07-08.1.pdf

[Hydrawerk]

New Brymen BM230 series was released. http://brymen.eu/product-category/multimetry/
There is

System + Motor – 3? phase rotation for motors and supply systems

feature.

[bitwelder]

New Brymen BM230 series was released. http://brymen.eu/product-category/multimetry/
There is

System + Motor – 3? phase rotation for motors and supply systems

feature.

Oooh... a teardown of a 3-phase multimeter would be nice. Dave, can you ask for a sample from Brymen?

[Smokey]

New Brymen BM230 series was released. http://brymen.eu/product-category/multimetry/
There is

System + Motor – 3? phase rotation for motors and supply systems

feature.

http://brymen.eu/shop/bm239r/

Check out the features!
"Ghost Voltage Burster – LoZ drains ghost/strain voltage leaving only hard signals on meter reading "

I can't wait to "Burst" those ghosts!

[Hydrawerk]

There was an update. http://www.brymen.com.tw/product-html/index.html
BM230 and BM230R specifications are available.

[retiredcaps]

There was an update. http://www.brymen.com.tw/product-html/index.html
BM230 and BM230R specifications are available.

The marketing pdf showing the lcd contrast is not representative of the real thing.  It looks almost like black ink on white paper.

[GEuser]

There was an update. http://www.brymen.com.tw/product-html/index.html
BM230 and BM230R specifications are available.

Whats that pull out thingy that comes out of the Top ?

edited> saw it , magnetic hanger?

[nanofrog]

edited> saw it , magnetic hanger?

Yep. 

BTW it's an option, not standard in the box. Same with their PC communication kits for meters that have that feature.

[Fungus]

edited> saw it , magnetic hanger?

Yep. 

BTW it's an option, not standard in the box. Same with their PC communication kits for meters that have that feature.

nb. Magnetic hanger is a safety feature. Its there so you don't have the meter in your hand when it explodes.

[Hydrawerk]

Why did Brymen remove the bargraph in BM230 series?? There was a bargraph in the older BM250 series. 

[rsjsouza]

Why did Brymen remove the bargraph in BM230 series?? There was a bargraph in the older BM250 series. 

Hydrawerk, it is a product positioning issue: for a bargraph to be useful, it needs to update at a much faster rate than the display itself - thus increasing the complexity and the cost of the product. That, tied to the fact not everyone finds a bargraph essential, caters to a market segment that will find the BM23x prices more attractive. 

[GEuser]

Why did Brymen remove the bargraph in BM230 series?? There was a bargraph in the older BM250 series. 

Hydrawerk, it is a product positioning issue: for a bargraph to be useful, it needs to update at a much faster rate than the display itself - thus increasing the complexity and the cost of the product. That, tied to the fact not everyone finds a bargraph essential, caters to a market segment that will find the BM23x prices more attractive.

Nooooo not another analog digital discussion , but maybe Brymen is coming out soon with a Real good Analog meter , a real Multimeter (one that has a Cuppachino button too) .

[rsjsouza]

Why did Brymen remove the bargraph in BM230 series?? There was a bargraph in the older BM250 series. 

Hydrawerk, it is a product positioning issue: for a bargraph to be useful, it needs to update at a much faster rate than the display itself - thus increasing the complexity and the cost of the product. That, tied to the fact not everyone finds a bargraph essential, caters to a market segment that will find the BM23x prices more attractive.

Nooooo not another analog digital discussion

Was this an attempt to troll or be funny? 

[GEuser]

Why did Brymen remove the bargraph in BM230 series?? There was a bargraph in the older BM250 series. 

Hydrawerk, it is a product positioning issue: for a bargraph to be useful, it needs to update at a much faster rate than the display itself - thus increasing the complexity and the cost of the product. That, tied to the fact not everyone finds a bargraph essential, caters to a market segment that will find the BM23x prices more attractive.

Nooooo not another analog digital discussion

Was this an attempt to troll or be funny? 

Neither on all 3 counts .

[EEVblog]

Hydrawerk, it is a product positioning issue: for a bargraph to be useful, it needs to update at a much faster rate than the display itself - thus increasing the complexity and the cost of the product. That, tied to the fact not everyone finds a bargraph essential, caters to a market segment that will find the BM23x prices more attractive.

Yes. And maybe they chose a new chipset that didn't have that capability, or didn't have  the required number of LCD segment drivers etc.
The BM230 series is a lower price point.
Of course it could have been deliberate to protect the BM250 market, but it could have also been a technical decision.

[Hydrawerk]

I bought a BM829S recently. It looks like a good DMM that does all stuff that I will ever need.
Photos here. https://goo.gl/photos/RPjwPxFBq8XdDpoy7
Or here.
My father did an accidental 82 cm drop test and nothing happened. There is a hard wooden floor in my room.

[Hydrawerk]

When you hold the REL (delta) button and turn on the DMM, "82-F" appears. Is it a firmware version?
BM829S is rather compact in size, it is not a large beast.

[Hydrawerk]

I could measure up to 1100V and 1.679MHz, but the sensitivity was low at this frequency. And I did a small modification with a white paint.

More opinions coming later.

[Hydrawerk]

The LCD viewing angle is not ideal. But it is almost OK for me.

[Hydrawerk]

More photos.

[P90]

I've got a BM829s too. Yeah display is washed out whem looking from top. It's an ok meter, nothing great. It's definitely not a Fluke, that's for sure.

[Hydrawerk]

BM829S

It's an ok meter, nothing great.

Well, you can get a nice Keysight DMM for about twice the price of BM829S.
http://www.tme.eu/de/details/u1242c/tragbare-digitalmultimeter/keysight-technologies/

[Hydrawerk]

Wow that thing appears to really wash out bad.  I tried various angles comparing the EEVBLOG rebranded BM235A and several other meters.  None looked like yours.   This is my BM869 laying flat and trying to get it so the light would not reflect on it.  Sorry but it has that protective cover on it but at least gives some idea of the contrast.

BM869s is more expensive than BM829S. There might be a better LCD.

[P90]

Here are a few of the two Brymens side by side.  Again, sorry about the plastic covers.

When I was making the review of the BM235A, it really was a wash for contrast with all the meters I compared it against.  I don't think I have seen one as bad as what you are showing but to be honest, I normally am looking at them, not at such an angle.

You know, those screen protectors come off easily...   lol

[ebclr]

To discover why Fluke is better will take 10 to 20 years

Fluke will still be on originals specs

I doubt Brymen will ( just in case the meter still works )

It's not fair to compare the two

[Lightages]

To discover why Fluke is better will take 10 to 20 years

Fluke will still be on originals specs

I doubt Brymen will ( just in case the meter still works )

It's not fair to compare the two

On what base of data do you doubt something? Do you have some kind of bias? Are you basing your doubt on anything at all?

[P90]

I'm quite certain the Brymen meters will hold up quite well... I've got a couple rebadged ones that have done well for several years...

[lacek]

To discover why Fluke is better will take 10 to 20 years

Fluke will still be on originals specs

I doubt Brymen will ( just in case the meter still works )

It's not fair to compare the two

Frankly, after such a long time I would try to callibrate it, no matter what brand it is. Is there some sort of science that supports the supposed superiority of Fluke in terms of long-time stability?  I don't mind firm beliefs as I consider myself Catholic, but while God is omnipotent, the manufacturer of may not be In this case I would prefer to rely on scientific arguments.

And is it 10-20 years of bench use or 10-20 years of abuse in industry envoronment everyone here suppoertink Fluke is so passionate about. For example mine will be used only on a desk.

Also if it takes 10-20 years to notice some sort of drift from callibration, I would assume that after such a long time one will have a new DMM anyway.
Assuming that recallibration will cost say 20-30% of the Brymen cost, it would take 50-100 years to make up for the price difference

[rsjsouza]

To discover why Fluke is better will take 10 to 20 years

Fluke will still be on originals specs

I doubt Brymen will ( just in case the meter still works )

It's not fair to compare the two

I have a 2003-manufactured BM857 that I purchased New Old Stock in 2012 and it has seen a lot of action since then. Both its 50000 and 500000 count modes are well within its published specifications. 5 years of active use with 9 more since manufacturing (which was stored under unknown circumstances).

[Fungus]

To discover why Fluke is better will take 10 to 20 years

Fluke will still be on originals specs

I doubt Brymen will ( just in case the meter still works )

Frankly, after such a long time I would try to callibrate it, no matter what brand it is.

Nope.

The first thing you do is get some references and see if it's out of spec.

I'm betting the Brymen won't be.