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EEVblog => EEVblog Specific => Topic started by: EEVblog on April 01, 2013, 04:14:15 am

Title: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: EEVblog on April 01, 2013, 04:14:15 am
Dave programs a PIC 24F chip on his uCalc with the new official AVR Dragon firmware.
Part of the new Microchip-Atmel tool collaboration agreement.
Also, news on the new PICkit 4 which will have official support for all Atmel parts.

EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWlpqSrabKs#ws)
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: BravoV on April 01, 2013, 04:22:47 am
 :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: nuhamind2 on April 01, 2013, 04:25:35 am
What !!
All the war is now all useless...
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: free_electron on April 01, 2013, 04:55:36 am
don't be surprised .... Microchip has tried to borg atmel before !

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/02/10/us-atmel-takeover-microchip-idUSTRE5197X120090210 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/02/10/us-atmel-takeover-microchip-idUSTRE5197X120090210)
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: bxs on April 01, 2013, 05:07:01 am
haha  :-DD deletting posts, why ?  :palm:

No one will believe in the video anyway  :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: dimlow on April 01, 2013, 05:10:16 am
Its a special day for google too https://www.google.com/intl/en-GB/landing/nose/ (https://www.google.com/intl/en-GB/landing/nose/)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9-P6jEMtixY# (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9-P6jEMtixY#)!

I wonder how well Dave has done in this comp https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H542nLTTbu0# (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H542nLTTbu0#)!

Guardian Goggles http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/video/2013/apr/01/guardian-goggles-video (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/video/2013/apr/01/guardian-goggles-video)
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: EEVblog on April 01, 2013, 05:22:01 am
I wonder how well Dave has done in this comp https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H542nLTTbu0# (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H542nLTTbu0#)!

I'm in with a chance.
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: dimlow on April 01, 2013, 05:26:04 am
I wonder how well Dave has done in this comp https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H542nLTTbu0# (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H542nLTTbu0#)!

I'm in with a chance.

Thats how i found it
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: exp1 on April 01, 2013, 05:32:46 am
 :-DD Thumbs up!
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: Mindlesscoolguy on April 01, 2013, 06:58:25 am
Well, I prefered the 555 trick. you actually got me to check the microchip forums. it would have been great though...
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: maor on April 01, 2013, 07:22:16 am
Very nice dave, very nice...
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: hans on April 01, 2013, 08:37:01 am
You got me until I read "Mar 31, 2013" and opened my own calendar (Europe)
 :-DD
Title: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: afho on April 01, 2013, 08:55:34 am
Great! You vor me first too, but this sounds so uncredible that this coudn't be true! Thanks. And here in Europe, as hans sad, it was 31.03. ... :-)
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: Phantomix on April 01, 2013, 09:03:52 am
I'd really like if this was true!

The problem is, Atmel isn't even able to support all their programming standards in one product; if Microchip would achieve this, i'd say - hats off!

Thanks Dave, ymmd!
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: herctrap on April 01, 2013, 09:12:23 am
what about the green led on the avr dragon?

Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: Alana on April 01, 2013, 09:14:40 am
Found this sometime ago on EEblog forum. Havent tested yet :D
http://elena-march.narod.ru/ (http://elena-march.narod.ru/)
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: firewalker on April 01, 2013, 10:53:16 am
It doesn't work under GNU/Linux. I flashed AVR Dragon with the new firmware but MplabX has issues. Works under Win7 though.

Alexander.
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: olsenn on April 01, 2013, 10:54:35 am
Atmel is working on a new firmware; hahaha, Atmel is working, lol, that's a good one
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: elgonzo on April 01, 2013, 10:56:44 am
Dave, you smart sonofabitch, you got me fooled!
Hehehe, i always fall for these jokes, perhaps because secretly i wish for them becoming true.

Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: elgonzo on April 01, 2013, 10:59:04 am
It doesn't work under GNU/Linux. I flashed AVR Dragon with the new firmware but MplabX has issues. Works under Win7 though.

Alexander.

How did you do it on Windows 7?
It did not run for me on Win7. Atmel support told me to try Windows 8, which i did (in a VM), and it is now working fine...
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: John Larsen on April 01, 2013, 11:07:10 am
 :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: firewalker on April 01, 2013, 11:09:04 am
It doesn't work under GNU/Linux. I flashed AVR Dragon with the new firmware but MplabX has issues. Works under Win7 though.

Alexander.

How did you do it on Windows 7?
It did not run for me on Win7. Atmel support told me to try Windows 8, which i did (in a VM), and it is now working fine...

I don't know it, worked out of the box for me. Try to run it as admin or with WinXp compatibility mode.

Alexander.
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: komet on April 01, 2013, 11:24:26 am
Even with the new firmware I still can't get my AVR dragon to work with my AS/400. Don't Atmel care about their customers?
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: nitro2k01 on April 01, 2013, 11:50:30 am
I'm looking forward to the PICKit 4. The AVR programming is nice and all, but I'm personally looking forward to finally getting brighter LEDs. For those of us who work in dark rooms, this is a big deal. I'm just worried that I might wear out the flash memory on the PIC chip if I repeatedly reprogram the chip so I can get the increased illumination from the status LED.
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: cidcorp on April 01, 2013, 11:59:01 am
Totally feel like a dumbass.  Forgot what day it was.  If you had provided links on the video page, I would have never seen the comments about the links being missing...and I might have been confused for several more hours.

Nice job.
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: xenocide702 on April 01, 2013, 12:27:45 pm
you actually got me to check the microchip forums.

Same, well played Dave.
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: JoeAAI on April 01, 2013, 01:00:23 pm
Had me fooled... just like last year...  I even knew what day it was.
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: M0BSW on April 01, 2013, 01:16:54 pm
It maybe OK for all of you who know about this stuff, but I am even more confused now, I want to build some Amateur radio project that use  PIC chips, and I don't have a clue where to start, if this is the same pic, I'm completely bewildered, and need a darkened room to lye down in. :-//
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: TheCrazyRichard on April 01, 2013, 01:23:16 pm
 :-DD

Almost got fooled as well  :-DD

Awesome. Anyway, Dave, why don't you finish the uCalc?
It looks like a nice interesting project, I might even maybe buy one too  ;)
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: margrove on April 01, 2013, 01:35:02 pm
You got me there, fair & square
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: M0BSW on April 01, 2013, 01:44:12 pm
 AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH you big numpty you  trying to confuse a already confused radio ham, I'd let your tyres down if I lived over there. :-+ :D
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: olsenn on April 01, 2013, 03:03:00 pm
I still think the 555-timer bit was your best
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: Ferroto on April 01, 2013, 03:19:23 pm
Programming PIC chips with an AVR Dragon. What is this sorcery.

Looks at date. Well played Dave well played.
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: oPossum on April 01, 2013, 03:40:42 pm
This has been in the works for quite a while and there is more to it than what Dave has revealed.

The PIC firmware for the Dragon is just a temporary hack. The Dragon has been an unreliable POS and will be EOL soon. The new low cost programmer will the the PICKit4 - and it will program everything.

Microchip will soon announce (along with the PK4) a line of 8 and 16 bit PIC chips that are pin compatible with the AVR atTiny atMega and XMega chips. They will assist current Atmel customers with the transition to these new superior PIC chips. When the transition is complete, all AVR chips will go EOL and no longer be manufactured.

The AVR never met sales expectations, and this is Atmel's way out of a money losing microcontroller product segment.
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: armandas on April 01, 2013, 03:51:15 pm
Microchip will soon announce (along with the PK4) a line of 8 and 16 bit PIC chips that are pin compatible with the AVR atTiny atMega and XMega chips.

Sounds legit. Everybody knows that pinout is the only difference between PICs and AVRs :D
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: oPossum on April 01, 2013, 03:55:12 pm
Microchip will soon announce (along with the PK4) a line of 8 and 16 bit PIC chips that are pin compatible with the AVR atTiny atMega and XMega chips.

Sounds legit. Everybody knows that pinout is the only difference between PICs and AVRs :D

There are some minor firmware differences. They have developed tools to deal with that. Source code will be automagically converted for you. The tools are currently a bit buggy - but I am sure it will be perfected by release time.
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: 8086 on April 01, 2013, 04:01:18 pm
Not even close  :P

But nice try.
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: JTR on April 01, 2013, 04:31:49 pm
Hey Dave, you've found your calling. You should get a job for a Sydney radio station.  :scared:
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: 6502Dude on April 01, 2013, 04:47:28 pm
Wow, this is pretty cool advancement.  8)
Just ordered a AVR Dragon Programmer online.
Can't wait to try this, once new firmware is released.
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: mizi on April 01, 2013, 04:51:06 pm
It even "leaked" to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PICKit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PICKit)) :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: olsenn on April 01, 2013, 04:53:17 pm
Dave, you should see how many companies add you to their shitlist, haha. Keep it up!
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: A Hellene on April 01, 2013, 06:41:56 pm
Ah, this is old news!

Atmel development tools could always handle Microchip products.

For example, check out what chip is plugged in at the target programming socket of the AVR MCU00100 Starter Kit (http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=984563#984563), which is a vintage AVR programmer initially released in 1997!


-George

<EDIT>
Image added:

(http://www.avrfreaks.net/modules/PNphpBB2/files/vintage_avr_mcu00100_starter_kit_129.jpg)
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: shashwatratan on April 01, 2013, 07:22:45 pm
 :-+
Hi Dave thats a great April fools prank. You totally got me by your 555 easter egg video, may be 2 years ago. So I know how convincing you are!

but would it not be great if both companies support each others products? I am not a fanboy of  atmel or microchip i use parts from both. Still I use Atmel's MCUs more often. For the contrary the atmel parts are cheaper here then microchip! Go wonder ???

Regards
Shashwat
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: Metalcrowe on April 01, 2013, 07:31:57 pm
First, you had me.
But then I took a look at the calendar and realized it. ;D
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: ben_r_ on April 01, 2013, 08:29:54 pm
So when is that PICKit 4 coming out then? Shame they wont be upgrading the PICKit 3 to support it, but Ill still have plenty of use for that and it was certainly cheap enough. However theyd better update the PM3 to support it because I am NOT buying a new stand alone programmer from them just to get AMTEL support!
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: DebboR on April 01, 2013, 08:46:59 pm
Omg... I watched this video this morning (in Europe), and only just found out it was a joke :p.
Nice one Dave (except for giving me bad hope for a full day...)!

DebboR
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: Towz on April 01, 2013, 09:51:22 pm
Nice one ;)  :bullshit:
Anyway... It's be nice if someday it happened...
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: oshaker on April 01, 2013, 09:54:36 pm
God knows how many hits guys made seeking for PICKit4 :- )
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: EEVblog on April 01, 2013, 09:57:23 pm
It even "leaked" to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PICKit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PICKit)) :-DD

 :-DD indeed!
Quickly removed by the Wiki nazi's of course.
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: 6502Dude on April 01, 2013, 11:02:06 pm
what about the green led on the avr dragon?

Perhaps he used same hole through work bench that was used for 555 trick, to power the green led?
My guess is another (off camera) USB port was used on notebook to produce the read/write results to screen on notebook.
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: Fozzy on April 01, 2013, 11:09:30 pm
How did you manage to keep composure, or did you do this in a few takes? Nice one Dave, keep up the top work!! :-+
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: EEVblog on April 01, 2013, 11:38:46 pm
How did you manage to keep composure, or did you do this in a few takes? Nice one Dave, keep up the top work!! :-+

It took a few takes, but not for composure, just the usual reason that I have no idea what I'm going to say until I hit record.
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: fLuXx on April 01, 2013, 11:47:49 pm
Hey, just registered now to comment on the clip. Good one, you actually got me. Mostly because it is actually partially true. There is a way to program AVR's via Pickit. I tried it with pickit2 and it worked. Just google it and try. Be careful though, as not all AVR's are supported/tested. I managed to brick an Atmega128, because the programmer wrote the wrong fuse configuration, disabling the serial programming. I had to unbrick it using the parallel programmer. Anyway, at least we know they are actually hardware compatible, it's just not supported by firmware.
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: ivan747 on April 02, 2013, 12:54:59 am
Atmel is working on a new firmware; hahaha, Atmel is working, lol, that's a good one

 :palm:
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: FenderBender on April 02, 2013, 02:08:53 am
You bastard! ;D

You got me good Dave. The whole video I was just like "Wow this is crazy. Weird but..hey whatever". I didn't think anything of it.
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: BravoV on April 02, 2013, 02:20:44 am
Just rewatched and found out it has subtitle now, I assumed its done by Sen, thanks Sen !  :-+

Boo..hooo...  :-DD  I guess few fan boys from both sides must be offended watching this video, nice job Dave.  >:D

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-448-new-pickit-4-avr-dragon/?action=dlattach;attach=42872;image)
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: c4757p on April 02, 2013, 02:26:34 am
There is a way to program AVR's via Pickit. I tried it with pickit2 and it worked. Just google it and try.

Thought so! The electrical interface is nearly identical, it's just protocol differences.

Quote
I managed to brick an Atmega128, because the programmer wrote the wrong fuse configuration, disabling the serial programming. I had to unbrick it using the parallel programmer.

There's just something about AVR fuses... I've done that to so many AVR chips - somehow I always manage to pick something completely retarded for the fuse settings. Either they have more ways to brick them, or I'm just an ignoramus.
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: CBenghi on April 02, 2013, 11:41:21 am
Bingo! It works like a treat!
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: Dennis on April 02, 2013, 09:23:52 pm
Do you think Microchip will do a video response this time??
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: notsob on April 02, 2013, 09:26:49 pm
I can only imagine someone at microchip going what the f*^% are these pickit4 enquiries, oh no it's that bastard jones again.
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: free_electron on April 02, 2013, 11:50:33 pm
i heard that using PIckit5 and Atmel Dragon 7 you will be able to program 555 timers and 741 opamps !  >:D
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: Jon Chandler on April 03, 2013, 05:07:55 am
i heard that using PIckit5 and Atmel Dragon 7 you will be able to program 555 timers and 741 opamps !  >:D

Great.  I was looking for a way to program the CSS555C Programmable Timer (http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/2146450.pdf).

Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: bitwelder on April 03, 2013, 05:30:18 am
And luckily Wikipedia "Nazi admins" removed the joke, otherwise you'd see hordes of microchip fans going after their #1 firm with "what sir? no pickit4? You must be misinformed, it's on Wikipedia, it MUST be true!"  :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: manu on April 03, 2013, 11:30:00 am
Hello,
I've been fooled as I just saw the video this morning, then I realized...
I wish this would be true that a pickit4 were released as I'm working with a pickit3 (in fact, several of them) and they sometime brick if I change the microcontroller device (I often switch between PIC18 and PIC32 micros). I cannot get a repeatable way of un-bricking it, I try different tricks and I finally get it work again...
So, it would have been great to see a new version of the low-cost debugger more reliable as the pickit2 was.
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: nitro2k01 on April 03, 2013, 01:57:38 pm
And luckily Wikipedia "Nazi admins" removed the joke, otherwise you'd see hordes of microchip fans going after their #1 firm with "what sir? no pickit4? You must be misinformed, it's on Wikipedia, it MUST be true!"  :-DD
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/citogenesis.png)
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: delfinom on April 04, 2013, 03:59:11 am
This has been in the works for quite a while and there is more to it than what Dave has revealed.

The PIC firmware for the Dragon is just a temporary hack. The Dragon has been an unreliable POS and will be EOL soon. The new low cost programmer will the the PICKit4 - and it will program everything.

Microchip will soon announce (along with the PK4) a line of 8 and 16 bit PIC chips that are pin compatible with the AVR atTiny atMega and XMega chips. They will assist current Atmel customers with the transition to these new superior PIC chips. When the transition is complete, all AVR chips will go EOL and no longer be manufactured.

The AVR never met sales expectations, and this is Atmel's way out of a money losing microcontroller product segment.

I hope not, AVRs are wonderful for their modern assembly and architecture while the 8-bit PICs are seriously lagging behind in many aspects.
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: grummund on April 04, 2013, 07:58:35 am
what about the green led on the avr dragon?

Could be custom firmware to fake a PicKit3 - mimics the protocol to the PC but then does nothing except operate the LED.

Nice trick however it was done.  :-+
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: BAM5 on May 20, 2013, 03:50:36 pm
Aw dang it!  D:<

I watched this video in May and have been putting off getting the PICKit because I thought the 4th one was going to come out!
Had me fooled for like a week or two.
Good job.  :clap:
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: ilanko on October 26, 2013, 11:54:29 pm
Where's the calc video ? 
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: vysakhpillai on March 06, 2018, 05:02:46 am
And now when they have actually announced PICKIT4 with support for Atmel devices, this page shows up in the front page of Google search   :-DD

http://www.microchip.com/Developmenttools/ProductDetails.aspx?PartNO=PG164140 (http://www.microchip.com/Developmenttools/ProductDetails.aspx?PartNO=PG164140)
Title: Re: EEVblog #448 - New PICkit 4 & AVR Dragon
Post by: MauriceS on September 03, 2019, 06:49:56 pm
Dave was a great visionary in 2013...