EEVblog #454 - JVC Camcorder Teardown

[EEVblog]

Teardown Tuesday
Inside a JVC comsumer camcorder
What design and systems engineering awaits?

[Ferroto]

At 36:10 you may want to try disabling the auto-focus on your main camera. I noticed it was trying to compensate for the adjustments you made to that lens assembly. It could be throwing off your results.

[opablo]

Dave talks about how incredible is the idea of designing aaaaaaaall that in a 9mo timespan and I think that's not exactly true.

I think that those teams have 9mo to: *apply/integrate new features (LIKE LASERS  ) and *apply/implement a new external design; over an already working design of a portable camcorder (their previous version)

Don''t get me wrong... I still think it's an impresive amount of work and I do take off my hat for these guys...

Just wanted to rant my 2 cents...

[PChi]

I agree with opablo they aren't starting from cold because it is the product of evolution. You have to admire the team work and their experience. I have worked in a Japanese company in the UK but unfortunately they let the UK management have some control who didn't value team work or experience with the inevitable result of failure.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Dave talks about how incredible is the idea of designing aaaaaaaall that in a 9mo timespan and I think that's not exactly true.

I think that those teams have 9mo to: *apply/integrate new features (LIKE LASERS  ) and *apply/implement a new external design; over an already working design of a portable camcorder (their previous version)

Don''t get me wrong... I still think it's an impressive amount of work and I do take off my hat for these guys...

Just wanted to rant my 2 cents...

Yeah not wanting to turn it into a rally.....

I would imagine if a big ole company like that has the infrastructure of cross-discipline teams and such, you'd think that they would also have a pre-existing platform to spin out newer products fairly easily.

Being able to adapt to the latest and greatest would be priority, I'd think.

[Eliminateur]

there's something very wanky that you have not noticed Dave (quite easy to miss actually) after looking at the "optical package":
where's the image stabilization hardware?!?!
you clearly have a sticker on top that says it has IS but... no OIS... wah wah wah fail JVC!
so, no iris control, again, wonky and no OIS (the IS then it's done in software urgh goodbye image quality).

that's pretty piss-poor, i was at least expecting a floating stabilized target final lens inside.....

[ondreji]

that's pretty piss-poor, i was at least expecting a floating stabilized target final lens inside.....

Software IS for this class of camcorders is fine considering sensor size. It's far cheaper to have slightly bigger sensor (+5% or +10% in size in each dim) than spend money on complex IS. Basically, (on camcorders) IS is just cropping to full HD (or what ever format) from a bigger picture...

IS for still photography or huge sensors (pixel and dim like APS-C/H, full frame, 6x4) is different story: a floating stabilized target final lens inside.....

[Ed.Kloonk]

I have a cheapie stick cam that has a stability feature. I have come to leave it turned off now and fix the video in post prod. I mean it does an OK job but causes too many after effects so I just leave it turned off. There's nothing the computer cant fixer later.

[Joules]

Nice one Dave 

      Now with my skill for buggering it up, anyone for OOPS      Welded it, Wednesday

[nitro2k01]

These people like their fancy schmancy portmanteaus. I'm assuming:
Novalloy = Nova + alloy
Gigabrid = Giga + hybrid

Regarding the power connector, maybe it can charge over USB as well?

[Corporate666]

Does anyone here work for a large consumer products manufacturer?  Like Dave said in the video, I would love to hear about the design processes that you guys go through. 

I've had some experience in making injection molds... and they usually cost $20k USD for a relatively simple one, and much more for multi-draw molds.  Even made in China molds cost $5k for single draw.  It boggles the mind that they have so many little molded parts.  I guess they either have some way to drastically reduce mold costs (maybe they do moldmaking in-house?), or they do such volume of molds that they get preferential pricing?  Or do they just make one or two molds and put all the separate parts in the same mold? 

What about the software used?  Are people making 16+ layer computer motherboards in Altium and the like?  Are the final products assembled on a production line in Japan or China? 

I'm curious to learn about the whole process.

[JackOfVA]

Found a review of the Everio GZ-HM300  on CNET:

With some of the worst video quality I've seen in an HD camcorder of late, the best I can say about JVC's entry-level HD Everio camcorder models is that they're small and cheap. Though they're $60 to $100 less than HD competitors, they're defined by a tiny, insufficient-resolution-for-HD sensor, a 20x zoom lens with no optical image stabilization (only electronic), and the lowest-resolution LCD display in their class.

[xrunner]

After watching the video, looking at all the complex flex cables, LED angles, and so on, I'd be interested in how many prototypes they have to go through to get a final production-ready design. There must be a room somewhere filled with all the little parts that weren't quite right at the beginning.

Then, you have to train the assembly line how to put it all together. 

[EEVblog]

there's something very wanky that you have not noticed Dave (quite easy to miss actually) after looking at the "optical package":
where's the image stabilization hardware?!?!

Most low end cameras do digital image stabilisation.

[EEVblog]

What about the software used?  Are people making 16+ layer computer motherboards in Altium and the like?

I can answer that one with a definite yes. For a long time, Altium has been the defacto standard package in China (although no one pays for it).
So yes, Altium would be one of the major packages used, along with a few others.

[amyk]

What about the software used?  Are people making 16+ layer computer motherboards in Altium and the like?

I can answer that one with a definite yes. For a long time, Altium has been the defacto standard package in China (although no one pays for it).
So yes, Altium would be one of the major packages used, along with a few others.

I know a lot of the smaller Chinese companies are still using versions from when it was called Protel...

[krivx]

The Digital->Analog->Digital conversion you noted near the LCD panel, could the DAC have been there for the component output?

[greenhat]

Hi, I'm a software engineer from JVC
For R&D mainly we have a team that specialize to design the body parts, a team to design the electrical part and a team to design the software; the team I'm currently in.
The cycles for each camcorder models to be completed normally within 6 months and in average we have 3-5 models being developed in parallel at the same time.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Hi, I'm a software engineer from JVC
For R&D mainly we have a team that specialize to design the body parts, a team to design the electrical part and a team to design the software; the team I'm currently in.
The cycles for each camcorder models to be completed normally within 6 months and in average we have 3-5 models being developed in parallel at the same time.

Wow.

Welcome, Sir.
 

[brabus]

Hi, I'm a software engineer from JVC
For R&D mainly we have a team that specialize to design the body parts, a team to design the electrical part and a team to design the software; the team I'm currently in.
The cycles for each camcorder models to be completed normally within 6 months and in average we have 3-5 models being developed in parallel at the same time.

Really interesting, welcome!

I have a question for you, IF you are allowed to answer: How many prototype cycles do you need to make before SOP?

I ask you this because in the boards we often see "REV 1.0" or "1.1"; in my past company* we released even some "REV 7.0" boards!

So, what is a standard acceptable number of revisions, both for mechanics and electronics?

Thank you.

*yes, I also used to be a consumer electronics designer; luckily I am not anymore!   

[SeanB]

And, to paraphrase Dave's question, who designed the power connector, and why???

[greenhat]

Hi, I'm a software engineer from JVC
For R&D mainly we have a team that specialize to design the body parts, a team to design the electrical part and a team to design the software; the team I'm currently in.
The cycles for each camcorder models to be completed normally within 6 months and in average we have 3-5 models being developed in parallel at the same time.

Wow.

Welcome, Sir.
 

Thanks!

Hi, I'm a software engineer from JVC
For R&D mainly we have a team that specialize to design the body parts, a team to design the electrical part and a team to design the software; the team I'm currently in.
The cycles for each camcorder models to be completed normally within 6 months and in average we have 3-5 models being developed in parallel at the same time.

Really interesting, welcome!

I have a question for you, IF you are allowed to answer: How many prototype cycles do you need to make before SOP?

I ask you this because in the boards we often see "REV 1.0" or "1.1"; in my past company* we released even some "REV 7.0" boards!

So, what is a standard acceptable number of revisions, both for mechanics and electronics?

Thank you.

*yes, I also used to be a consumer electronics designer; luckily I am not anymore!   

I'm not from the main branch (Japan) so I'm not sure how many prototype cycles they did before they send the board to us.
but AFAIK, from our stage, normally it's 2 revisions, but in rare cases, it might get to 4 revisions, usually depends on QA judgement.
But take this with a grain of salt since I'm just their software guy.

And, to paraphrase Dave's question, who designed the power connector, and why???

I don't know who design it at first but sales side is the one to decide on which kind of connector to be used on a particular model.
Maybe their target market widely using those type of connector, or maybe they just want to finish out the existing stock. Who knows.
But most of the time we try not to argue about it because its their job to come out with the strategy, and they know better.
And also JVC profit most in Japan market, so I think they're considering more on Japan market demands compared to others.
Feel free to spam our sales team with your feedback, since all market complain is taken into consideration when we develop new models.