Author Topic: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly  (Read 15911 times)

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Offline hlavac

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EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« on: April 26, 2013, 01:21:32 pm »
You are supposed to put the memory into the blue sockets Dave! It's because of the dual channel memory controller, it will be faster

Fan will probably fit then as well
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Offline mariush

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2013, 02:00:43 pm »
You can put the memory modules in any slot, but if you want more bandwidth, you are supposed to put them in the slots with the same color, so that Dual Channel can work.

So two blues , or two blacks, is better than black + blue, Dave.  I'd also put them a bit further away from the cpu, so that the fins won't affect the airflow or cause noise.  I'd put them in the blue slots even though they're further away from the CPU, it should only be a problem if you try to overclock the memory modules to some ridiculous high frequencies.

You put a bit too much thermal paste Dave, but that will work.
Ideally, you should wipe the CPU and the copper pipes on the cooler with some isopropyl alcohol then use some credit card like material to spread some paste in a thin layer.

Won't make more of a few C degrees difference so might as well leave it as is. You're not overclocking much anyway.

regarding power supply... the Samxon GF series is really problematic, it's seen failing a lot in monitor power supplies.  The capacitor selection is really lousy, you might want to check the psu every 6 months or so just to make sure it's ok.

I agree with you in regards to the big power connector and Asus cheapening out on a few mm of board so you don't have the 3rd screw to support the board.

 

Offline hlavac

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2013, 02:27:40 pm »
No, it does matter blue vs black now - with DDR3 you want to use the ones farther from the CPU because of termination (which is in memory chips themselves now).
You dont want that extra unterminated  trace+socket dangling there damaging signal integrity!

Good enough is the enemy of the best.
 

Offline Markybhoy

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2013, 02:57:45 pm »
It looked like you applied a lot of thermal paste,  artic silver have some recommended methods for application -

http://www.arcticsilver.com/intel_application_method.html#
 

Offline mikgntl-2013

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2013, 04:58:38 pm »
It looks like the bios default configuration applies very conservative settings for the RAM, clocking it at 1333MHz against the rated 1600MHz.
 

Offline Alana

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2013, 05:22:09 pm »
Usual way to install IO shield is to force it into hole in PC case and then install motherboard.
And for this fan - i have similar cooling for my PC and i noticed that with fan blowing into radiator it deposits lots of dust and other crap between fan and radiator eventually blocking airflow. I think i get my screwdriver and do the same - with fan sucking there is no way of this crap keeping there.

PSU - i fix some of those and there was only one PSU i had to replace those big caps on mains side - and that was entirely because of my mishandling that poor thing. But those on the LV side - they can blow up especially if load resistors are placed right next to them. Sometimes i even wonder if they do that on purpose so that PSU will fail in like 1year.
This heat shrunk component you thought is a MOV - i its NTC put there to limit inrush current. In AT days it could be even 1ohm/5W resistor.
I'm quite surprised thought - this is Corsair brand but board layout is not much different from all those crappy Codegen PSUs. Even heat sinks are exactly the same. But that may be a hint for me how to make them better. El-cheapo PSU = el-cheapo parts and if that means if i replace caps and power components to some better ones i may end up with decent PSU.

With USB keyboard/mice i had problems with winXP [i do mostly old machines that are not W7 capable] - if you forget where you connected you usb keyboard/mouse and have user profile password enabled you may end up in deep shit. XP detects devices like USB keyboard and mouse after loading user profile and... How would you enter password if your keyboard is not working?
Few times i needed to go home, take my ps2 keyboard, go to customer's place and "unlock" his/her PC.
I don't know if its the same with W7 but i would not be surprised if it is. Got to test it one day - if i get W7 PC for service :D
 

Offline bxs

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2013, 05:34:20 pm »
Dave, when I saw you install the RAM, I was screaming inside  :o

Dave RTFM  ;D , to be honest you don't need, look at the slots colors ;)

Some others things that you may take note are for example the IO shield, you should put it first on the case, then the MB, also I think you went little overkill with the thermal paste  :-DD

Also try not to put the hard drives together, if you have free slots leave a free slot between, especially the mechanical ones.

The final cabling also seems a terror movie...

But, lets go to basics, in the end, the system works, so, a winner  %-B

After the hardware stuff, get a updated BIOS and spend some time looking at it, them OS, Drivers, configs... ... ... ...
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 05:45:55 pm by bxs »
 

Offline andersm

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2013, 05:58:34 pm »
Almost clicked thumb down just for that "fan boys" pun.

Dave, look into cable management in modern case designs. Routing cables underneath the motherboard is not only neater, it'll improve airflow as well.

Offline Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2013, 06:22:27 pm »
Yikes, Dave, I'd take that heatsink off and reapply the TIM, and a lot less of it this time!

A very thin line down each heatpipe is more than sufficient, the mounting pressure will spread it just fine. That's going to be affecting your temperatures.
 

Offline Zad

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2013, 07:06:31 pm »
The only airflow that really matters in that case is the path from the front of the chassis, through the CPU HSF and out of the back. So far as I can see, the majority of the cables are well away from that. Sure, the Northbridge needs cooling air, but it isn't worth spending ages over the cable tidies. A HSF sucking rather than blowing will make far more difference than messing around with some cables.

Given the location for the PSU air intake, if the intention is to stand the PC on a carpeted floor then I would stand the PC on a piece of wood or similar, to stop the carpet blocking the holes. Even though the case has a filter there, it will suck a lot of dust up past the carpet and lead to a breeding ground for dust-bunnies. If you want to reduce the noise even further, making the case fans controllable would be the first port of call.

That PSU is fine Dave, don't worry about it. It is a well known brand, with plenty of headroom in terms of power and cooling.

Offline eddy66t6

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2013, 07:14:44 pm »
One thing that this video can definitely teach us is how seriously people take someone else building a P.C. for themselves!!

One comment: 'Hi Dave! This case have very good cable-managment system. All cables may be run under motherboard plate. Please use it!?'

Is life going to be detrimentally affected by the cable management in some crazy aussie blokes video editing P.C.?????????

People need to get real.
/rant.

edit: its not the suggestion of cable management that gets my goat, but more the quasi-demanding of it's remedy. :D
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 07:16:35 pm by eddy66t6 »
 

Offline Short Circuit

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2013, 07:52:56 pm »
Back to elecronics; what is that socketed DIP8 on this mainboard?

Also quite surprised to see that the frontpanel USB3 connection uses an ordinary box header!
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2013, 07:57:37 pm »
Back to elecronics; what is that socketed DIP8 on this mainboard?

Flash memory, stores UEFI and configuration.
 

Offline Razor512

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2013, 09:38:41 pm »
For many modern power supplies, the caps never really get warm, even at full load.the airflow generally prevents heat from the heatsinks from reaching them too much. I have only had one power supply fail on my, it was a really old 300 watt one (failed after about 4 years), but I was able to fix it by replacing the capacitors (used some random 6000 hour 105c ones).  5 years later after the fix, the same ( 300 watt power supply is still running 24/7 on my server power supply came with the $30 case )



Anyway, when overclocking, don't forget to overclock the RAM, most boards will default them to 1333 (underclocked) but with those memory sticks, don't be afraid to push them to DDR3 1700-1800 speeds

Then for the CPU, pushing it to 4.1GHz or so will be really quick, and getting it that last bit of the way to around 4.4 - 4.5GHz, will take more extensive stability testing, so it is only recommended if you have a few days to dedicate to overclocking.

For the storage, standard HDD's wont really benefit from sata 6, so if you need, you can grab 2 extra 2TB drives (disconnect the front drive caddy, then do a raid 5 setup)

Then if needed, go with a better videocard, more video editors are starting to use open CL and having a dedicated GPU will significantly improve performance in those applications.

You will also be able to do more PC gaming. (I recommend testing the performance with your new PC by playing crysis 3, battlefield 3, (and for more fun, also try bioshock infinite ).
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2013, 09:45:13 pm »
One thing that this video can definitely teach us is how seriously people take someone else building a P.C. for themselves!!

Yes, I got beaten here in the past for daring to confess that these days I buy read-made PCs at the supermarket. I give a flying fart which exact CPU version they have or which motherboard / chipset. I couldn't care less. They are fast enough and no one at home ever complained.
I delete PMs unread. If you have something to say, say it in public.
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Offline c4757p

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2013, 09:54:44 pm »
"You want the thinnest layer possible", he says as he coats the heat sink in an ocean of thermal paste  :-DD
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Offline Razor512

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2013, 10:00:04 pm »
Friends don't let friends buy prebuilt desktop PC's :)

Once you build a PC for your self, you will never go back to buying prebuilt. The poor performance per dollar of prebuilt will just make you cringe too much.

If you want to see for yourself, look at any prebuilt gaming PC, then pick out parts to build your own with the same specs, it will often be 300-$500 cheaper (and in the case of some super high end ones from companies like alienware, upwards of $1000 cheaper)

And to make matters wost, many prebuilt systems are often poorly balanced and make upgrading more expensive, for example, many prebuilt performance systems will come with a poer supply that just meets the bare minimum needed for the system, so upgrading to a higher end videocard, or or significant overclocking (if they didn't lock that feature), would require a new power supply.

You then end up with prebuilt systems that are completely unbalanced, eg some companies will sell a gaming PC with a GTX645 and a intel core i7 3770k and charge like $800+

sure you have a top end CPU, but that system would not handle any modern high end games without significantly turning down settings., they can have a much better balanced system by going with a core i5 range CPU and getting a GTX670.

Overall when you build your own PC, you are able to maximize your overall performance per dollar far better than if you buy prebuilt.

In the case of the new EEVblog video editing rig, the 3770k is the best choice for rendering, and since someone gave him a pretty high end GPU, he will have more than enough GPU performance for any openCL features that he may want to use in a video editor. (he will also be able to bitcoin mine if needed :) )

If bitcoins hit around $150+ a coin, he will make more money in bitcoins then spend on electricity. (bitcoin mining can also be used to offset a heating bill during the winter when you want to warm a room up by bitcoin mining)

-==-=-=--==--=-=

For the thermal compound, if you place too much, you can significantly thin the layer by placing the heatsink on the CPU and and gently applying pressure while twisting and sliding it in circular motion by a small amount then inspect the corners of the CPU to make sure no compound has made it's way to the contacts on the top/ side of the CPU.

(at really high overclocks and using liquid cooling, you can generally slightly lower your max temp by adding enough compound to form a small lip around the sides of the CPU heat spreader (generally 1-2C lower when you do that on a ivybridge CPU)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 10:07:46 pm by Razor512 »
 

Offline LaurenceW

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2013, 10:27:10 pm »
Dave, As requested, no "you should have" advice from me - not really qualified to give it (just like everyone else who DOES give it, anyway!!), but a querstion.

Your video rendering now takes 52 seconds, but during that time the (8!!) cores are only running at 60-70%. So - if the processor is no longer the bottle neck (and you think the hard disks aren't, either), just what is holding the machine up, now?

At ~80W load, I suspect your 650W power supply will die of boredom, before it dies of stress.

Oh, OK - one piece of advice, then. You should have installed Win8, just so that we can watch you go appoplectic at how cr@p it is, getting in the way of everything you want to try and do! Go on try it...

If you don't measure, you don't get.
 

Offline mariush

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2013, 10:30:34 pm »
Dave, As requested, no "you should have" advice from me - not really qualified to give it (just like everyone else who DOES give it, anyway!!), but a querstion.

Your video rendering now takes 52 seconds, but during that time the (8!!) cores are only running at 60-70%. So - if the processor is no longer the bottle neck (and you think the hard disks aren't, either), just what is holding the machine up, now?

At ~80W load, I suspect your 650W power supply will die of boredom, before it dies of stress.

Oh, OK - one piece of advice, then. You should have installed Win8, just so that we can watch you go appoplectic at how cr@p it is, getting in the way of everything you want to try and do! Go on try it...

There are only 4 real cores, the other 4 are virtual, due to hyperthreading. The 4 virtual cores are "borrowing" resources unused by the 4 real cores to do work.

Since x264 is heavily optimized, it's normal that the 4 virtual cores won't have spare cpu cycles and resources to actually do some work, therefore you won't see all 8 cores go up to 100%.

« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 10:32:30 pm by mariush »
 

Offline hans

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2013, 11:10:34 pm »
I think it is inevitable people will respond "I will do this different".

I rarely (every 3-4 years) build PC's my self too, and I am sure people would show this response as well:


I think that in the end (well, so far?) the hardware seems to work OK. I personally know how a RMA or driver/hardware problems can ruin your day. On the other hand, the cash saved by building the PC yourself (with a bit of research + 1 day time investment) is pretty good..

I wouldn't worry to much about the PSU. Although CapXon is pretty horrid I see Corsair as a reputable brand. As far as I know they make medium to high quality PC parts.
Moreover, 100-200W load on a 650W PSU is pretty easy.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 11:21:27 pm by hans »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2013, 11:28:04 pm »
For the thermal compound, if you place too much, you can significantly thin the layer by placing the heatsink on the CPU and and gently applying pressure while twisting and sliding it in circular motion by a small amount then inspect the corners of the CPU to make sure no compound has made it's way to the contacts on the top/ side of the CPU.

I did that and checked, it looked fine to me.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2013, 11:29:17 pm »
Since x264 is heavily optimized, it's normal that the 4 virtual cores won't have spare cpu cycles and resources to actually do some work, therefore you won't see all 8 cores go up to 100%.

You do see all 8 "cores" go up to 95% or so while using Handbrake.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2013, 11:31:45 pm »
Dave, take 10 minutes and fix the TIM. Then check your load temperatures.
 

Offline Razor512

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2013, 12:48:23 am »
Not all encoders will use all CPU cores at 100% so that is normal.

From my testing with encoders that do that, it is not a memory or storage bottleneck, it is almost as if they are stressing some other part of the CPU or simply not take full advantage of all cores. (With many H.264 encoders, if the CPU usage does not reach 100%, and you run something that is memory intensive, it will have almost no impact on the encoding, but if you run something that uses even a small amount of CPU usage, it will impact the speeds even though the encoder was not using 100%.

PS while intel uses hyperthreading, AMD's now CPU's are also using something similar,consider it a better version of hyperthreading.

The AMD 8 core CPU's are not true 8 core chips since many of the components are shared where a traditional multi core CPU will have the various parts not shared.

Thats why AMD labels the 8 core CPU as having 4 core modules.

If 2 threads fall on a single core module (with it's supposedly 2 cores), you will see significantly lower speeds than if you take the same 2 threads and place them on 2 different core modules.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/138394-amds-fx-8350-analyzed-does-piledriver-deliver-where-bulldozer-fell-short/2

(look especially closely on the 4 threads on 4 core modules and compare it to 8 threads on 4 core modules (where each core module supposedly has 2 cores)

Here is one example of the problem with AMD's new FX CPU's  (the older gen 8150 had this problem even worst where depending on what you were doing, 2 threads on one core module would be about 60-80% slower than if the 2 threads ended up on 2 different core modules.

Intel's hyperthreading is similar, but even more components are shared, and it does not offer as large of a boost in performance but intel also does not lie and say that their CPU has 8 cores.

Compared to the Phenom II line of CPU's the new AMD fx chips have significantly lower single threaded performance. especially if you clock both chips at the same clock speed. (in most cases at the same clock speed, the phenom II x4 CPU's will often beat the supposedly 8 core AMD fx (especially on gaming )

I know this is a simple way of putting all of this but that is pretty much the problem with AMD now.

A core module only performs well if 2 different threads are running, (basically threads that stress different parts of the CPU if 2 threads stress the same shared components, then you get performance issues like shown in that review. (PS benchmarks like cinebench (rendering content) are really tough on FX CPU's because each thread are demanding access to the same exact CPU resources (resources that the core modules share between 2 "cores")
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 01:02:44 am by Razor512 »
 

Offline Ferroto

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2013, 01:22:17 am »
"You want the thinnest layer possible", he says as he coats the heat sink in an ocean of thermal paste  :-DD

Some people say you should spread it with a credit card others say you should dab it in the middle and let the pressure spread the compound others say you should apply to the CPU.

I have an old gaming rig in storage and I'm thinking of replacing the thermal compound with solder paste. The theory is that when the CPU heats up due to poor thermal connectivity the solder paste will re-flow soldering the CPU to the heat sink providing superior thermal contact. This has a 25% chance of working and a 75% chance of releasing the magic smoke, should be interesting.  :-+
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 01:24:25 am by Ferroto »
 


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