Author Topic: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly  (Read 15929 times)

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Offline hlavac

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EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« on: April 26, 2013, 01:21:32 pm »
You are supposed to put the memory into the blue sockets Dave! It's because of the dual channel memory controller, it will be faster

Fan will probably fit then as well
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Offline mariush

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2013, 02:00:43 pm »
You can put the memory modules in any slot, but if you want more bandwidth, you are supposed to put them in the slots with the same color, so that Dual Channel can work.

So two blues , or two blacks, is better than black + blue, Dave.  I'd also put them a bit further away from the cpu, so that the fins won't affect the airflow or cause noise.  I'd put them in the blue slots even though they're further away from the CPU, it should only be a problem if you try to overclock the memory modules to some ridiculous high frequencies.

You put a bit too much thermal paste Dave, but that will work.
Ideally, you should wipe the CPU and the copper pipes on the cooler with some isopropyl alcohol then use some credit card like material to spread some paste in a thin layer.

Won't make more of a few C degrees difference so might as well leave it as is. You're not overclocking much anyway.

regarding power supply... the Samxon GF series is really problematic, it's seen failing a lot in monitor power supplies.  The capacitor selection is really lousy, you might want to check the psu every 6 months or so just to make sure it's ok.

I agree with you in regards to the big power connector and Asus cheapening out on a few mm of board so you don't have the 3rd screw to support the board.

 

Offline hlavac

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2013, 02:27:40 pm »
No, it does matter blue vs black now - with DDR3 you want to use the ones farther from the CPU because of termination (which is in memory chips themselves now).
You dont want that extra unterminated  trace+socket dangling there damaging signal integrity!

Good enough is the enemy of the best.
 

Offline Markybhoy

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2013, 02:57:45 pm »
It looked like you applied a lot of thermal paste,  artic silver have some recommended methods for application -

http://www.arcticsilver.com/intel_application_method.html#
 

Offline mikgntl-2013

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2013, 04:58:38 pm »
It looks like the bios default configuration applies very conservative settings for the RAM, clocking it at 1333MHz against the rated 1600MHz.
 

Offline Alana

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2013, 05:22:09 pm »
Usual way to install IO shield is to force it into hole in PC case and then install motherboard.
And for this fan - i have similar cooling for my PC and i noticed that with fan blowing into radiator it deposits lots of dust and other crap between fan and radiator eventually blocking airflow. I think i get my screwdriver and do the same - with fan sucking there is no way of this crap keeping there.

PSU - i fix some of those and there was only one PSU i had to replace those big caps on mains side - and that was entirely because of my mishandling that poor thing. But those on the LV side - they can blow up especially if load resistors are placed right next to them. Sometimes i even wonder if they do that on purpose so that PSU will fail in like 1year.
This heat shrunk component you thought is a MOV - i its NTC put there to limit inrush current. In AT days it could be even 1ohm/5W resistor.
I'm quite surprised thought - this is Corsair brand but board layout is not much different from all those crappy Codegen PSUs. Even heat sinks are exactly the same. But that may be a hint for me how to make them better. El-cheapo PSU = el-cheapo parts and if that means if i replace caps and power components to some better ones i may end up with decent PSU.

With USB keyboard/mice i had problems with winXP [i do mostly old machines that are not W7 capable] - if you forget where you connected you usb keyboard/mouse and have user profile password enabled you may end up in deep shit. XP detects devices like USB keyboard and mouse after loading user profile and... How would you enter password if your keyboard is not working?
Few times i needed to go home, take my ps2 keyboard, go to customer's place and "unlock" his/her PC.
I don't know if its the same with W7 but i would not be surprised if it is. Got to test it one day - if i get W7 PC for service :D
 

Offline bxs

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2013, 05:34:20 pm »
Dave, when I saw you install the RAM, I was screaming inside  :o

Dave RTFM  ;D , to be honest you don't need, look at the slots colors ;)

Some others things that you may take note are for example the IO shield, you should put it first on the case, then the MB, also I think you went little overkill with the thermal paste  :-DD

Also try not to put the hard drives together, if you have free slots leave a free slot between, especially the mechanical ones.

The final cabling also seems a terror movie...

But, lets go to basics, in the end, the system works, so, a winner  %-B

After the hardware stuff, get a updated BIOS and spend some time looking at it, them OS, Drivers, configs... ... ... ...
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 05:45:55 pm by bxs »
 

Online andersm

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2013, 05:58:34 pm »
Almost clicked thumb down just for that "fan boys" pun.

Dave, look into cable management in modern case designs. Routing cables underneath the motherboard is not only neater, it'll improve airflow as well.

Offline Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2013, 06:22:27 pm »
Yikes, Dave, I'd take that heatsink off and reapply the TIM, and a lot less of it this time!

A very thin line down each heatpipe is more than sufficient, the mounting pressure will spread it just fine. That's going to be affecting your temperatures.
 

Offline Zad

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2013, 07:06:31 pm »
The only airflow that really matters in that case is the path from the front of the chassis, through the CPU HSF and out of the back. So far as I can see, the majority of the cables are well away from that. Sure, the Northbridge needs cooling air, but it isn't worth spending ages over the cable tidies. A HSF sucking rather than blowing will make far more difference than messing around with some cables.

Given the location for the PSU air intake, if the intention is to stand the PC on a carpeted floor then I would stand the PC on a piece of wood or similar, to stop the carpet blocking the holes. Even though the case has a filter there, it will suck a lot of dust up past the carpet and lead to a breeding ground for dust-bunnies. If you want to reduce the noise even further, making the case fans controllable would be the first port of call.

That PSU is fine Dave, don't worry about it. It is a well known brand, with plenty of headroom in terms of power and cooling.

Offline eddy66t6

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2013, 07:14:44 pm »
One thing that this video can definitely teach us is how seriously people take someone else building a P.C. for themselves!!

One comment: 'Hi Dave! This case have very good cable-managment system. All cables may be run under motherboard plate. Please use it!?'

Is life going to be detrimentally affected by the cable management in some crazy aussie blokes video editing P.C.?????????

People need to get real.
/rant.

edit: its not the suggestion of cable management that gets my goat, but more the quasi-demanding of it's remedy. :D
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 07:16:35 pm by eddy66t6 »
 

Offline Short Circuit

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2013, 07:52:56 pm »
Back to elecronics; what is that socketed DIP8 on this mainboard?

Also quite surprised to see that the frontpanel USB3 connection uses an ordinary box header!
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2013, 07:57:37 pm »
Back to elecronics; what is that socketed DIP8 on this mainboard?

Flash memory, stores UEFI and configuration.
 

Offline Razor512

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2013, 09:38:41 pm »
For many modern power supplies, the caps never really get warm, even at full load.the airflow generally prevents heat from the heatsinks from reaching them too much. I have only had one power supply fail on my, it was a really old 300 watt one (failed after about 4 years), but I was able to fix it by replacing the capacitors (used some random 6000 hour 105c ones).  5 years later after the fix, the same ( 300 watt power supply is still running 24/7 on my server power supply came with the $30 case )



Anyway, when overclocking, don't forget to overclock the RAM, most boards will default them to 1333 (underclocked) but with those memory sticks, don't be afraid to push them to DDR3 1700-1800 speeds

Then for the CPU, pushing it to 4.1GHz or so will be really quick, and getting it that last bit of the way to around 4.4 - 4.5GHz, will take more extensive stability testing, so it is only recommended if you have a few days to dedicate to overclocking.

For the storage, standard HDD's wont really benefit from sata 6, so if you need, you can grab 2 extra 2TB drives (disconnect the front drive caddy, then do a raid 5 setup)

Then if needed, go with a better videocard, more video editors are starting to use open CL and having a dedicated GPU will significantly improve performance in those applications.

You will also be able to do more PC gaming. (I recommend testing the performance with your new PC by playing crysis 3, battlefield 3, (and for more fun, also try bioshock infinite ).
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2013, 09:45:13 pm »
One thing that this video can definitely teach us is how seriously people take someone else building a P.C. for themselves!!

Yes, I got beaten here in the past for daring to confess that these days I buy read-made PCs at the supermarket. I give a flying fart which exact CPU version they have or which motherboard / chipset. I couldn't care less. They are fast enough and no one at home ever complained.
I delete PMs unread. If you have something to say, say it in public.
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Offline c4757p

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2013, 09:54:44 pm »
"You want the thinnest layer possible", he says as he coats the heat sink in an ocean of thermal paste  :-DD
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Offline Razor512

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2013, 10:00:04 pm »
Friends don't let friends buy prebuilt desktop PC's :)

Once you build a PC for your self, you will never go back to buying prebuilt. The poor performance per dollar of prebuilt will just make you cringe too much.

If you want to see for yourself, look at any prebuilt gaming PC, then pick out parts to build your own with the same specs, it will often be 300-$500 cheaper (and in the case of some super high end ones from companies like alienware, upwards of $1000 cheaper)

And to make matters wost, many prebuilt systems are often poorly balanced and make upgrading more expensive, for example, many prebuilt performance systems will come with a poer supply that just meets the bare minimum needed for the system, so upgrading to a higher end videocard, or or significant overclocking (if they didn't lock that feature), would require a new power supply.

You then end up with prebuilt systems that are completely unbalanced, eg some companies will sell a gaming PC with a GTX645 and a intel core i7 3770k and charge like $800+

sure you have a top end CPU, but that system would not handle any modern high end games without significantly turning down settings., they can have a much better balanced system by going with a core i5 range CPU and getting a GTX670.

Overall when you build your own PC, you are able to maximize your overall performance per dollar far better than if you buy prebuilt.

In the case of the new EEVblog video editing rig, the 3770k is the best choice for rendering, and since someone gave him a pretty high end GPU, he will have more than enough GPU performance for any openCL features that he may want to use in a video editor. (he will also be able to bitcoin mine if needed :) )

If bitcoins hit around $150+ a coin, he will make more money in bitcoins then spend on electricity. (bitcoin mining can also be used to offset a heating bill during the winter when you want to warm a room up by bitcoin mining)

-==-=-=--==--=-=

For the thermal compound, if you place too much, you can significantly thin the layer by placing the heatsink on the CPU and and gently applying pressure while twisting and sliding it in circular motion by a small amount then inspect the corners of the CPU to make sure no compound has made it's way to the contacts on the top/ side of the CPU.

(at really high overclocks and using liquid cooling, you can generally slightly lower your max temp by adding enough compound to form a small lip around the sides of the CPU heat spreader (generally 1-2C lower when you do that on a ivybridge CPU)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 10:07:46 pm by Razor512 »
 

Offline LaurenceW

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2013, 10:27:10 pm »
Dave, As requested, no "you should have" advice from me - not really qualified to give it (just like everyone else who DOES give it, anyway!!), but a querstion.

Your video rendering now takes 52 seconds, but during that time the (8!!) cores are only running at 60-70%. So - if the processor is no longer the bottle neck (and you think the hard disks aren't, either), just what is holding the machine up, now?

At ~80W load, I suspect your 650W power supply will die of boredom, before it dies of stress.

Oh, OK - one piece of advice, then. You should have installed Win8, just so that we can watch you go appoplectic at how cr@p it is, getting in the way of everything you want to try and do! Go on try it...

If you don't measure, you don't get.
 

Offline mariush

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2013, 10:30:34 pm »
Dave, As requested, no "you should have" advice from me - not really qualified to give it (just like everyone else who DOES give it, anyway!!), but a querstion.

Your video rendering now takes 52 seconds, but during that time the (8!!) cores are only running at 60-70%. So - if the processor is no longer the bottle neck (and you think the hard disks aren't, either), just what is holding the machine up, now?

At ~80W load, I suspect your 650W power supply will die of boredom, before it dies of stress.

Oh, OK - one piece of advice, then. You should have installed Win8, just so that we can watch you go appoplectic at how cr@p it is, getting in the way of everything you want to try and do! Go on try it...

There are only 4 real cores, the other 4 are virtual, due to hyperthreading. The 4 virtual cores are "borrowing" resources unused by the 4 real cores to do work.

Since x264 is heavily optimized, it's normal that the 4 virtual cores won't have spare cpu cycles and resources to actually do some work, therefore you won't see all 8 cores go up to 100%.

« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 10:32:30 pm by mariush »
 

Offline hans

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2013, 11:10:34 pm »
I think it is inevitable people will respond "I will do this different".

I rarely (every 3-4 years) build PC's my self too, and I am sure people would show this response as well:


I think that in the end (well, so far?) the hardware seems to work OK. I personally know how a RMA or driver/hardware problems can ruin your day. On the other hand, the cash saved by building the PC yourself (with a bit of research + 1 day time investment) is pretty good..

I wouldn't worry to much about the PSU. Although CapXon is pretty horrid I see Corsair as a reputable brand. As far as I know they make medium to high quality PC parts.
Moreover, 100-200W load on a 650W PSU is pretty easy.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 11:21:27 pm by hans »
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2013, 11:28:04 pm »
For the thermal compound, if you place too much, you can significantly thin the layer by placing the heatsink on the CPU and and gently applying pressure while twisting and sliding it in circular motion by a small amount then inspect the corners of the CPU to make sure no compound has made it's way to the contacts on the top/ side of the CPU.

I did that and checked, it looked fine to me.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2013, 11:29:17 pm »
Since x264 is heavily optimized, it's normal that the 4 virtual cores won't have spare cpu cycles and resources to actually do some work, therefore you won't see all 8 cores go up to 100%.

You do see all 8 "cores" go up to 95% or so while using Handbrake.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2013, 11:31:45 pm »
Dave, take 10 minutes and fix the TIM. Then check your load temperatures.
 

Offline Razor512

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2013, 12:48:23 am »
Not all encoders will use all CPU cores at 100% so that is normal.

From my testing with encoders that do that, it is not a memory or storage bottleneck, it is almost as if they are stressing some other part of the CPU or simply not take full advantage of all cores. (With many H.264 encoders, if the CPU usage does not reach 100%, and you run something that is memory intensive, it will have almost no impact on the encoding, but if you run something that uses even a small amount of CPU usage, it will impact the speeds even though the encoder was not using 100%.

PS while intel uses hyperthreading, AMD's now CPU's are also using something similar,consider it a better version of hyperthreading.

The AMD 8 core CPU's are not true 8 core chips since many of the components are shared where a traditional multi core CPU will have the various parts not shared.

Thats why AMD labels the 8 core CPU as having 4 core modules.

If 2 threads fall on a single core module (with it's supposedly 2 cores), you will see significantly lower speeds than if you take the same 2 threads and place them on 2 different core modules.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/138394-amds-fx-8350-analyzed-does-piledriver-deliver-where-bulldozer-fell-short/2

(look especially closely on the 4 threads on 4 core modules and compare it to 8 threads on 4 core modules (where each core module supposedly has 2 cores)

Here is one example of the problem with AMD's new FX CPU's  (the older gen 8150 had this problem even worst where depending on what you were doing, 2 threads on one core module would be about 60-80% slower than if the 2 threads ended up on 2 different core modules.

Intel's hyperthreading is similar, but even more components are shared, and it does not offer as large of a boost in performance but intel also does not lie and say that their CPU has 8 cores.

Compared to the Phenom II line of CPU's the new AMD fx chips have significantly lower single threaded performance. especially if you clock both chips at the same clock speed. (in most cases at the same clock speed, the phenom II x4 CPU's will often beat the supposedly 8 core AMD fx (especially on gaming )

I know this is a simple way of putting all of this but that is pretty much the problem with AMD now.

A core module only performs well if 2 different threads are running, (basically threads that stress different parts of the CPU if 2 threads stress the same shared components, then you get performance issues like shown in that review. (PS benchmarks like cinebench (rendering content) are really tough on FX CPU's because each thread are demanding access to the same exact CPU resources (resources that the core modules share between 2 "cores")
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 01:02:44 am by Razor512 »
 

Offline Ferroto

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2013, 01:22:17 am »
"You want the thinnest layer possible", he says as he coats the heat sink in an ocean of thermal paste  :-DD

Some people say you should spread it with a credit card others say you should dab it in the middle and let the pressure spread the compound others say you should apply to the CPU.

I have an old gaming rig in storage and I'm thinking of replacing the thermal compound with solder paste. The theory is that when the CPU heats up due to poor thermal connectivity the solder paste will re-flow soldering the CPU to the heat sink providing superior thermal contact. This has a 25% chance of working and a 75% chance of releasing the magic smoke, should be interesting.  :-+
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 01:24:25 am by Ferroto »
 

Offline mariush

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2013, 01:33:24 am »
Quote
PS while intel uses hyperthreading, AMD's now CPU's are also using something similar,consider it a better version of hyperthreading.

The AMD 8 core CPU's are not true 8 core chips since many of the components are shared where a traditional multi core CPU will have the various parts not shared.

Thats why AMD labels the 8 core CPU as having 4 core modules.


AMD doesn't use hyperthreading (or a version of it)

Each AMD "module" looks like this:



Basically, a module is made out of two separate cores each with their own integer section, that share a floating point section. That's the reason why people say the eight cores on AMD processors are not 8 real cores (because Intel's cores each have one integer and one floating point), and they're right : they're 8 integer cores and 4 to 8 floating point cores, depending on what type of floating point arithmetic threads want to use.

x264 - video encoding in general - is 99% integer based, floating point only matters at games and 3d rendering and other things.
So, in the video encoding area, an AMD processor will act as eight individual cores, with each 2 cores having maybe a 1-2% penalty due to the scheduler having to split and assign integer instructions to each core. During video encoding, the shared floating point module is NOT used, so it doesn't matter.

AMD processors simply have lower throughput and use more cycles for some instructions, hence why a processors like 3770k that has only 4 cores (but has more cpu extensions that are very useful for video encoding) can keep up with the AMD processors.

Quote

If 2 threads fall on a single core module (with it's supposedly 2 cores), you will see significantly lower speeds than if you take the same 2 threads and place them on 2 different core modules.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/138394-amds-fx-8350-analyzed-does-piledriver-deliver-where-bulldozer-fell-short/2

All those tests in the link you posted are about software using the floating point section of modules.

When piledriver/bulldozer was launched, the operating system would not recognize this particularity of AMD processors, that the floating point unit is shared between two cores, so four threads would be put on 2 modules, each 2 threads sharing a floating point module.

A Windows patch later, and Windows these days will by default spread threads on separate modules in case those threads do floating point stuff.
Vishera just tweaked the architecture.

If you want to be honest about it, post  the same tests done with x264 and playing with modules/cores, and you'll see there's no difference. Or better yet, tell me why that website didn't test with x264 but tested with only software using floating point stuff.
 
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 01:35:05 am by mariush »
 

Offline Razor512

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2013, 01:52:25 am »
That is a major issue. Not many applications can use 8 threads, and many of the ones that will make use of 8 threads, will push the CPU into bottlenecks like that.

I compared the core module to hyperthreading because it shares all of the threading issues.

The OS used in the benchmark, had all of the patches needed for the FX CPU's they simply forced the core affinity to use a single core module VS 2 or more of them.



I will try to pull up some of the other benchmarks that I have seen which compare threading on a core module. with other applications In no case have I ever seen a single core module offer anything like the performance scaling of 2 separate core modules running a thread. (very few sites tested the core modules, more need to as it is a problem and AMD should not be advertising these CPU's as 8 cores, and instead advertise it as a quad core and add on some trendy marketing name to the end of it.
 

Offline ecat

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2013, 01:57:32 am »
I have an old gaming rig in storage and I'm thinking of replacing the thermal compound with solder paste. The theory is that when the CPU heats up due to poor thermal connectivity the solder paste will re-flow soldering the CPU to the heat sink providing superior thermal contact. This has a 25% chance of working and a 75% chance of releasing the magic smoke, should be interesting.  :-+

Or you could just buy some of this
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10740/thr-77/Coollaboratory_Liquid_Ultra_100_Metal_Thermal_Interface_Material.html

Does it work?
It most certainly does, I use it in my current PC.
If the surface of the CPU conforms to the surface of the heatsink then this stuff will show you just how little thermal paste you really need - a grain of rice will look huge lol.

Does it have any negatives?
Yes. One used, separating the cpu and heatsink can be tricky. Not 'welded on' tricky but you need to exercise care.

Is it significantly better than the other brand name thermal pastes?
No. I'd argue there is no significant real world difference between any of the top thermal pastes. A degree or two here or there is not worth loosing sleep over when building a PC intended for daily use. Changes in ambient temperature will have a greater affect.

As for our generous host Dave perusing a new career in plastering, it's only worth worrying about if the paste squeezes out in sufficient quantity to short the test pads on the top of the chip package. Resistance, capacitance, whatever on these pads could cause problems.
 

Offline Short Circuit

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2013, 01:59:19 am »
"You want the thinnest layer possible", he says as he coats the heat sink in an ocean of thermal paste  :-DD

Some people say you should spread it with a credit card others say you should dab it in the middle and let the pressure spread the compound others say you should apply to the CPU.

I have an old gaming rig in storage and I'm thinking of replacing the thermal compound with solder paste. The theory is that when the CPU heats up due to poor thermal connectivity the solder paste will re-flow soldering the CPU to the heat sink providing superior thermal contact. This has a 25% chance of working and a 75% chance of releasing the magic smoke, should be interesting.  :-+
More like .25% chance of working  :-DD Original idea though.
Perhaps better chance if you use this super-low melting point reworking solder that Dave tested a while ago...? ChipQuick iirc
 

Offline Ferroto

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2013, 02:08:10 am »
also not to jump on the band wagon or anything but you know the metal plate for the connections on the back of the motherboard is supposed to snap into the case first and the motherboard just presses into it.
 

Offline mariush

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2013, 02:10:12 am »
Quote
(very few sites tested the core modules, more need to as it is a problem and AMD should not be advertising these CPU's as 8 cores, and instead advertise it as a quad core and add on some trendy marketing name to the end of it.

Sigh.. but they're not 4 cores.  A core has one integer scheduler and a floating point scheduler.  AMD's module has TWO integer schedulers and ONE floating point scheduler. Since forever (well, since pentium), a x86 core has one int and one fp.

Quote
have an old gaming rig in storage and I'm thinking of replacing the thermal compound with solder paste. The theory is that when the CPU heats up due to poor thermal connectivity the solder paste will re-flow soldering the CPU to the heat sink providing superior thermal contact. This has a 25% chance of working and a 75% chance of releasing the magic smoke, should be interesting.

It will work just fine.. until the paste dries up. Then it will still work, just not as well.

You can use toothpaste, you can use even vegemite: http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm  <--- this guy tested with old cpus.  Current intels are even less hot at idle, so they won't have issues.

All transfer heat to a certain degree and the heatsink will dissipate heat off the cpu even with that crap between it and the cpu. 

But you probably imagined the solder paste will melt and all that... no, I don't think the temperature reaches 180-200c to have the paste do its magic.
 

Offline Ferroto

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2013, 04:12:56 am »
But you probably imagined the solder paste will melt and all that... no, I don't think the temperature reaches 180-200c to have the paste do its magic.

Hmm what if I used that chip-quik stuff Dave reviewed awhile back, that has a much lower melting point.
 

Offline peter.mitchell

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2013, 05:00:15 am »
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2013, 10:18:55 am »
I have used simple synthetic grease ( was the closest to hand that was not stringy wheel bearing grease or molybdenum based) and a lapped heatsink and it works well. Often I take the new heatsinks, remove the fan and polish them with some 1400grit waterpaper on the surface block, often this makes them mirror smooth, and generally they only then need 1 small match head sized bit of thermal compound to fully cover the CPU pad. Worked very well on older Celeron processors that had a bare die backside.

I used to make my own, using Dow silicone grease, zinc oxide powder and a lot of acetone to make a thin liquid that would gradually evaporate ( over a week in a glass jar left outside with a cloth top firmly wired to it) to make heatsink compound. Used that to do power supplies where you routinely changed 50 2N3773's in the case of a failure ( and never the 100A fuse) and needed at least 100g per unit.
 

Offline (In)Sanity

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2013, 06:44:32 pm »
I see everyone else picked up on the memory being in the incorrect slots for dual channel mode.   Yes,  far too much thermal compound was applied.  In the end it'll all work.   I've put together literally hundreds of high end machines in my life,  and the last one was just a week ago.    Reading the manual would have helped in so many areas for this install,  I would overclock the crap out of that thing.   Run memtest and prime95 on it for days.   I don't think I've ever owned a machine that wasn't overclocked.

Enjoy.

Jeff
 

Offline M0BSW

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2013, 08:09:58 pm »
I always thought computers were a hard thing to put together, only done by gods , anyway doesn't to bad a job to do.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2013, 08:12:28 pm by M0BSW »
no one would or will tell me how to delete this account
 

Offline M. András

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2013, 09:43:26 pm »
shared resources or not on the vishera chips that damn thing almost doubled the performance on some programs i use simulation rendering gaming etc compared to a phenom II 1090t, stock memory bandwith up to 50% more at stock settings, i call that a big improvement
 

Offline Razor512

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2013, 09:45:21 pm »
The only slightly difficult part of building computers, is when you have to do a custom water cooling setup with multiple radiators.

It requires cutting hoses and testing for leaks (which requires you to modify a old DC power brick to run the cooling while computer is off)

PS when using liquid cooling for multiple devices, always place a radiator after each high wattage component, eg CPU > radiator> GPU > radiator > reservoir, and making sure you have a powerful pump to handle the radiators. Other than that, computers are for the most part fun to build

On my case around the unsupported parts of the PCB, I used rubber blocks cut to fit snugly under the board, then stuck to the case with a little bit of double sided tape. (prevents flexing, especially when you have a tighter case ) (you can usually buy a sheet of those gym floor mats  for a nice dense rubber like material) (just add small blocks around different connectors and around the PCI-e area, and a large strip under the 24 pin connector)
 

Offline Razor512

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2013, 09:50:58 pm »
One thing that this video can definitely teach us is how seriously people take someone else building a P.C. for themselves!!

Yes, I got beaten here in the past for daring to confess that these days I buy read-made PCs at the supermarket. I give a flying fart which exact CPU version they have or which motherboard / chipset. I couldn't care less. They are fast enough and no one at home ever complained.

But wouldn't you feel bad if you found out that you could have gotten a system with a faster CPU, motherboard with better VRM's so that you can overclock better, and a better videocard for the same or less money if you built your own?

PS with most budget prebuilt systems, the main area they cheap out on is the motherboard, memory, and hard drive.

Most PC users when buying generally focus on clock speed, brand of CPU, and having lots of RAM, but never really think about the motherboard, hard drive brand, number of phases dedicated to the CPU, power supply amps on the 12V rail, then run into issues when they need a new videocard and the power supply cant handle it, or want a better CPU but are floored by the board macing out at 95 watts for the CPU and not the 125 watts needed for the new CPU.
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2013, 11:39:20 pm »
But wouldn't you feel bad if you found out that you could have gotten a system with a faster CPU, motherboard with better VRM's so that you can overclock better, and a better videocard for the same or less money if you built your own?

Lets ignore that these PCs aren't as bad as people claim they are. Still no, I don't and wouldn't feel bad.

Buying such a PC saved me time. I didn't need to wade through urban myth, false or at best incomplete information to find "the best" CPU, motherboard, memory, PSU, etc. I don't have to waste time figuring out what the latest trend in memory, and what the must-have CPU cooler is. I have no interest in memorizing CPU type numbers or GPU types.

I don't have to sort out incompatibilities, electrical or mechanical. If the thing doesn't work or is to slow I bring it back. If it breaks down within the warranty period I bring it back.

I give a fscking fart about graphics performance. No one here in the house does, because since years onboard graphics is fast enough for all things we do with PCs. No one here is a gamer. Similar with overclocking, couldn't care less. I certainly won't waste hours just to tweak a PC to run 10% faster, with a 50% higher chance of crashing on a hot summer day.

Every month or so something allegedly "better" comes out in the PC market. Today's optimal system is tomorrow's dog. I refuse to play that game, I refuse to go on the eternal hunt for the "best" PC. All we need are reasonably performing PCs.

Quote
then run into issues when they need a new videocard and the power supply cant handle it, or want a better CPU but are floored by the board macing out at 95 watts for the CPU and not the 125 watts needed for the new CPU.

Upgrading PCs never worked for me in the past. New CPU? Sorry Sir, that old socket on your mother board is no longer supported, but we can offer you this nice new motherboard, too. Oh sorry, your old RAM doesn't fit any more. And the motherboard needs a new PSU, too. And that PSU, like the motherboard, doesn't fit in your old case. . Instead of upgrading I buy a new PC if someone outgrow the old one. No messing around with WTF the PC industry did this time to make upgrading hard and expensive or even impossible. I go straight for a new completer PC.
I delete PMs unread. If you have something to say, say it in public.
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Offline SeanB

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2013, 11:01:53 am »
Mostly I just am buying something near the bottom of the performance  band. If I buy as a ready built or as a set of boxes to assemble it is not a worry.
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2013, 11:50:55 am »
Dave, after watching that nice hardware being put together. Nice.

But then polluting it with windows (tm)...

 

Offline SeanB

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2013, 12:17:39 pm »
My laptop came with windows, used it only 3 times. once to make a set of recovery disks ( just in case), once to check a minipro programmer ( now runs in a VM) and once to run GOtomeeting, as I was not going to upgrade the XP VM to SP3 to run it. If I have to do this again I will get the SP's and do the pain.
 

Online NiHaoMike

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2013, 03:44:24 pm »
Aside from install the RAM correctly (as others have mentioned), turn off the swap or move it to a HDD. Swap is no good on a (Flash) SSD. (And in most cases, you don't need swap with 16GB of RAM.)

That PSU looks really poor quality for a Corsair. (Make sure it's not a fake.) You shouldn't have any problems with it in your basic setup, but just beware in case you start adding video cards and RAID arrays later on.

I'm also not so sure about installing the heatsink vertically with one end of the pipes hanging below the CPU. The refrigerant would tend to collect near the bottom, and although they have copper braid or something inside to mitigate this, there is probably still some performance impact. Easy way to test is by turning the case over so that the CPU is at the bottom. If core temps drop significantly, turn the heatsink 90 degrees or just leave the case turned over.
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Offline Slobodan

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2013, 08:35:29 am »
But then polluting it with windows (tm)...



Yeah. And 37 GB just for the OS install. My Ubuntu 12.04 64 bit install only took litle over 3 GB.
 

Offline M. András

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #45 on: April 29, 2013, 08:42:33 pm »
But then polluting it with windows (tm)...



Yeah. And 37 GB just for the OS install. My Ubuntu 12.04 64 bit install only took litle over 3 GB.

try that with the recovery install on the asus gamer laptops. it installs 50Gb of crap which you wont ever use just a fresh installed system runs over 180 process (win7ultimate) my desktop which has over 150Gb of installed stuffs drivers monitoring softwares some cad stuffs runs with 140process
 

Offline amspire

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #46 on: April 30, 2013, 04:07:46 am »
But then polluting it with windows (tm)...



Yeah. And 37 GB just for the OS install. My Ubuntu 12.04 64 bit install only took litle over 3 GB.
Windows doesn't need 37GBytes to install. Most of that space is probably virtual ramdisk paging file (if you have 16GBytes of RAM, Windows makes a 16G virtual ramdisk on the PC) and other files such as a hybernate save/restore file if you ever let the PC hibernate.

I think your Ubuntu 12.04 defaults to using the swap partition (if you have one) for hybernating, so it you have 16GBytes of ram for video editing and you want to be able to hybernate, then your Linux swap partition has to be a minimum of 16GBytes. That would make your Ubuntu installation a minimum of 18GBytes if you were building a similar system. Many of the opensource video editing tools have to be custom built on your Linux, and it is easy for the source and build files to consume many gigabytes of space. If you rely on the pre-built Linux apps, you are often using outdated versions of the applications. Ubuntu is pretty famous for never updating the application builds on old Ubuntu versions to the latest build.

If you choose to never hybernate and to only use a 2G swap partition, well you can do that in Windows as well.

But if you have plenty of drive space, why would you bother?

I like Linux, but I would only use it for video editing if I could afford to buy the very expensive commercial video editing/compositing/rendering packages that cost well into the thousands of dollars. It is very easy to spend over $10K on a decent Linux video editing system. Last time I looked, the free Linux video editing packages were just too buggy and primitive for efficient use.
 

Offline mariush

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #47 on: April 30, 2013, 04:41:37 am »

Windows doesn't need 37GBytes to install. Most of that space is probably virtual ramdisk paging file (if you have 16GBytes of RAM, Windows makes a 16G virtual ramdisk on the PC) and other files such as a hybernate save/restore file if you ever let the PC hibernate.


My Windows folder is 21 GB. Just Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit with Windows updates up to date.
Program Files (x86) is 5.7GB
Program Files is another 4.3 GB
Users folder is another 3 GB

Just install, LibreOffice, some old stuff like Adobe CS 2 suite etc, Thunderbird (which is about 700MB sigh), Firefox profiles taking  about 500 MB... not many things.  It adds up.

You could go about enabling ntfs compression on some of the folders less used in Windows - ntfs compression reduces files sizes to about 50% on average. If you have ssd, they're read fast from it and they're decompressed close to real time and they're cached in ram also if you have a lot of ram.
 

Offline T4P

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #48 on: April 30, 2013, 04:54:47 am »
Man, put the RAM into dual channel PLEASE!!!
Zero cable management ..

 

Offline Flsgd

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #49 on: April 30, 2013, 03:31:31 pm »
Why did you put all SSD and HDs together? I would imagine that's bad for airflow.
 

Offline triumph

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Re: EEVblog #462 - Video Editing PC Assembly
« Reply #50 on: January 02, 2015, 06:23:28 pm »
I know this an old topic, but I HAVE to comment.
1st,
When you use Heat Sink compound, only use an amount the size of a grain of rice!!!! NOT cover all the chip area. This is more than enough.
Any excess will only be squeezed out to cover the CPU and may flow onto the Motherboard.
2nd
In the bios set-up, where it says "Wait for F1 if error, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER Enable this option.
I had to scrap a perfectly good motherboard due to the motherboard not seeing the keyboard.
 


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