Author Topic: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown  (Read 36544 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« on: May 21, 2013, 10:53:43 pm »
What's inside the JBC CD-2BB soldering station.
http://bit.ly/180GwAP
http://www.mektronics.com.au/



 

Offline Spikee

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2013, 11:32:04 pm »
I also have one and it is awesome compared to all the irons i have used. It beats the cheap ass Aoyue , weller ws80  etc...
It is a bit more expensive but it is worth it!
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Offline firewalker

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2013, 11:34:57 pm »
Probably the EU is misspelled because European Union (EU) is Unión Europea in Spanish (UE). Crovisa is a Spanish company.

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Offline Lightages

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2013, 11:36:43 pm »
LOL, a bit more expensive. It certainly is a great tool, and in this case you definitely get what you pay for. But over $450?
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 12:04:53 am by Lightages »
 

Offline xenocide702

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2013, 11:41:44 pm »
I just bought the newer model with USB last week. I took a peek inside (pics coming). No prizes for guessing what they added :D a cp2102 silicon labs USB to UART along with an si8421 digital isolator. I didn't both tracking down what port pin the lines led to. They wouldn't need the hardware UART, they could bit bang it at whatever baudrate they feel like. 

Hopefully they used the serial bootloader on the original model, that'd mean flashing firmware wouldn't be a problem even for those with the older model, if there's any interest I'll take out the board and show a picture of where the pins lead.

PS: Everything Dave said about the iron is true, the thing a BEAST. It really puts our little 40 watt metcals to shame. I love almost everything about it other than the piss poor non removable stand. I may kludge together a little infrared deal on a movable stand to signal it to go to sleep.  :-//
« Last Edit: May 21, 2013, 11:45:50 pm by xenocide702 »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2013, 12:07:08 am »
LOL, a bit more expensive. It certainly is a great tool, and in this case you definitely what you pay for. But over $450?

Here in Oz the Hakko FX-888D is $205
http://www.mektronics.com.au/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=8777&category_id=67&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=94&Itemid=57
The JBC is $420
http://www.mektronics.com.au/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=4199&category_id=149&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=57
So just over double.
Does it have double the performance? Yes, most definitely.
Is it worth paying double? For me, yes, I'd buy it.
But as always, YMMV.
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2013, 12:36:23 am »
LOL, a bit more expensive. It certainly is a great tool, and in this case you definitely get what you pay for. But over $450?

You can always buy Chinese garbage with VFD screen for $150 and then come here to wonder why they keep dying :)
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Offline Lightages

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2013, 12:51:39 am »
Well there are other alternatives to Chinese junk and this JBC. It doesn't meant that you have to buy a $450 soldering station to do good soldering nor to get a reliable machine.

If you are a hobbyist then $450 would be better spent on other things and reserve somewhere between $100 to $200 for a decent soldering station. If you are soldering all the time and doing more "professional" work ( I actually despise this word but it is what people use) then I can see spending for something like this.
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2013, 12:59:35 am »
A point about the "bloody software" and EMI-related lockups, etc - I don't know how this one works, but dead lockups are a pretty easy problem to get around... All you need is a small timeout circuit triggered repeatedly by the microcontroller. If the MCU locks, it times out and shuts the thing down. Doesn't do much for plain software bugs, but with the power of that processor you could do quite a bit of background self-testing to minimize those as well. (dsPIC33F does have an internal PLL, so it's probably running above that 4 MHz)
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Offline c4757p

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2013, 01:07:40 am »
The "quality control tested" mark built into the case is almost as funny as the "Qenuine" sticker on my cheap soldering station... I'd at least like to see a sticker that has to be put on after QC!
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Offline xenocide702

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2013, 01:45:03 am »




Fairly large files, be warned. The only picture I got of the additional chips is blurry, but I posted the chip numbers above.
 

Offline Deagle

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2013, 02:02:46 am »
Get a look at the transformer at 8:30, are those F-F laminations? Can't say I've seen them before.

And that Microchip: http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/devicedoc/70165a.pdf
With the memory chip: http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheets2/12/129921_1.pdf

maybe they just have the big chip for all the I/O for the display? otherwise the chip still seems like overkill?
 

Offline Salas

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2013, 04:05:29 am »
Dave, you did not mention if the case material is hot iron proof I think? What is it made from?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2013, 04:43:22 am »
If you are a hobbyist then $450 would be better spent on other things and reserve somewhere between $100 to $200 for a decent soldering station. If you are soldering all the time and doing more "professional" work.

Sure. If that's all you have to spend then the Hakko FX-888 will serve you well for a long time.
The JBC (and metcal et.al) is capable of a lot better performance though than the cheaper thermal capacity irons though.
A cheaper iron generally won't prevent you from get the job done, but it may let you do it faster, safer, and with potentially better quality.
YMMV.
 

Offline Salas

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Offline komet

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2013, 06:03:40 am »
This German dealer carries a JBC with an analog base station for 198 EUR:

http://www.weidinger.eu/shop/loet-_und_entloettechnik/jbc/loet-_und_entloetgeraete/jbc_loetstationen/wl26830

I don't know how its performance compares with the digital version. It might be a viable option for the hobbyist.
 

Offline poorchava

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2013, 08:15:50 am »
my $0.02:
-4MHz crystal doesn't actually mean anything because all dspics have PLL inside
-external eeprom is because dspic33's, pic24h's and pic32's don't have internal eeprom
-dspic33's have the ADC implemented in an interesting way: they can take up to 8 samples simultaneously.
-it has relatively non-shitty (as compared to other PIC microcontrollers) ADC @ INL+/-2, DNL < +/-1, gain error 1.25...3 and offset 1.25...2
-dsp functionalities such as 2 saturating accumulators and a barrel shifter (all 40-bits) and a hardware 17x17 multiplier and MAC were for sure very nice for building an accurate and fast PID regulator

How is the rectification of transformer output voltage done? I haven't noticed a bridge rectifier anywhere. Are they rectifying with single diode? Is the heater powered with AC or DC (AC would be my guess, because they seem to be using back to back N-MOSFETS for switching, and the two 3H7 optocouplers are most likely there to provide a proper gate drive for the MOSFETS).

EDIT:
-done a little searching for discretes near the optocouplers:
Y6W = BZX84C18 (18V zener)
Y4W = BZX84C15 (15V zener)
5D = MMBD914 70V 200mA fast switching diode

looks like a floating gate drive to me :)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 08:34:06 am by poorchava »
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Offline ddavidebor

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EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2013, 09:40:33 am »
This German dealer carries a JBC with an analog base station for 198 EUR:

http://www.weidinger.eu/shop/loet-_und_entloettechnik/jbc/loet-_und_entloetgeraete/jbc_loetstationen/wl26830

I don't know how its performance compares with the digital version. It might be a viable option for the hobbyist.

This looks like a render plus photoshop...
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Offline neslekkim

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2013, 10:36:29 am »
Do anyone know the specs of the upgrade cable for the BB series?, the BC series have an USB connector, but on BB you need an cable, UC-1000, kinda expensive €72.. http://jbctools.com/uc1000-usb-cable-adaptor-product-805-category-9-menu-70.html

But I guess it's some USB-serial conversion?, but will upgrade software accept other things?
Probably not important to upgrade, but it's always cool to have the latest&greatest ;)
http://jbctools.com/software.html
 

Offline rolycat

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2013, 10:54:25 am »
If you can't justify a new JBC iron, analogue models are often available second-hand for very reasonable prices, and thanks to the excellent build quality are likely to be robust and reliable. I recently picked up an AD2700 for £87 (about $130). It offers similar thermal performance to the CD-2BB and looks and performs like a new unit. A seller on eBay recently had a range of new tips for £9 each, so accessories don't need to be outrageous.

I believe KJDS, who is a member of this forum,  sells used JBC kit from time to time.

 

Offline madires

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2013, 12:36:57 pm »
Expensive spares though. http://www.mektronics.com.au/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=150&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=57

If you use several tips and/or do a lot of soldering it becomes expensive. I use about 3 different tips regularly, so it would be around AUS$ 120 (EUR 92) for a new set. For my I-Tool a standard tip costs EUR 8 and a spare heater element is EUR 80. And the heater itself will outlive several tips (as the irons I had before). It's like the inkjet printers with combined ink & printhead cartridge vs. separated print head and ink tanks. 
 

Offline Rufus

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2013, 01:34:52 pm »
For me the most interesting thing about these JBC irons is the apparently great performance without rf heating and curie point temperature control.

That has got to be down to the tips with integral heaters and sensors. If it works so well even compared to complex and expensive rf heating systems why don't more manufacturers (including cheap and Chinese) take the same approach?
 

Offline Salas

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2013, 03:08:22 pm »
Expensive spares though. http://www.mektronics.com.au/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=150&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=57

If you use several tips and/or do a lot of soldering it becomes expensive. I use about 3 different tips regularly, so it would be around AUS$ 120 (EUR 92) for a new set. For my I-Tool a standard tip costs EUR 8 and a spare heater element is EUR 80. And the heater itself will outlive several tips (as the irons I had before). It's like the inkjet printers with combined ink & printhead cartridge vs. separated print head and ink tanks.

For using several tips in low cost I opted for OKI/Metcal PS-900. Also for having a separate tray. Could not accept the single unit configuration ergonomically. That one cost me 149 UKP. Proved adequate for my power needs. Puts out 60W. I also like the ERSA Icon Nano. The JBC has a more agile handle VS PS-900, versatility, and peak output. The NANO has as agile a handle, cheaper spares, separate tray, not so powerful. I would go for the top JBC separate tray model if buying cost and long run spares expenses were not a problem for me.
 

Offline neslekkim

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2013, 03:55:51 pm »
I believe KJDS, who is a member of this forum,  sells used JBC kit from time to time.

flash.pc also:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-jbc-cd-2bb-soldering-station-extras-(brand-new)/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/fs-(brand-new)-3-x-jbc-c245-soldering-tips-for-t245-handpiece-factory-sealed/

Bought the station and tips from him, good service, good price. (for me in Norway at least)
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: EEVblog #472 - JBC CD-2BB Soldering Iron Teardown
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2013, 07:51:46 pm »
one fail point though ... the tip is grounded ... BAD DESIGN !
there should be a 1 meg resistor between tip and ground. ( long body ,or three 1206 in series to avoid flashover )

you want a pathway from tip to avoid ESD problems.
you may want to put a 100pF cap in parallel with 2/3 of the total 1 meg resistance to deflect fast transients.

having the tip shorted hard to ground is bad. very bad.
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