Author Topic: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply  (Read 94258 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #225 on: August 23, 2013, 01:41:38 am »
We all like Test equipment Dave thats not the point!   May I ask you what is the point of someone owning $20,000 worth of test gear if all they are doing with it is running 555 timers and basic Op-Amps?  Thats the bloody problem with all of this and below I will qoute what I consider a classic post in this thread that sums it up completely.

What business of it is yours if someone has a 20K worth of gear to muck around with opamps?
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #226 on: August 23, 2013, 01:49:01 am »
We all like Test equipment Dave thats not the point!   May I ask you what is the point of someone owning $20,000 worth of test gear if all they are doing with it is running 555 timers and basic Op-Amps?  Thats the bloody problem with all of this and below I will qoute what I consider a classic post in this thread that sums it up completely.

May I ask you what is the point of someone owning 555 timers and basic op amps if all they are doing with it could be done with a fistful of transistors?

May I ask you what is the point of someone collecting stamps if they're not going to use them to send mail?

May I ask you what is the point of someone bothering with hobbies at all if they could contribute as much to society as a whole by sitting around scratching their ass?

Because it gives them pleasure. They like it. |O
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Offline Corporate666

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #227 on: August 23, 2013, 03:23:42 am »
What's wrong with someone being into test gear?  I am into watches.  I have about 60 watches.  I just like them.  Old, new, mechanical, automatic, eco, digital, cheap, expensive, plastic, metal, ones I made myself, ones I had made, ones I got at yard sales, and everything in between.  Why should people not indulge their desires if they have the means and desire to do so?  Are people neglecting to feed their kids because they want that new DSO?  :scared:

You understand how to read the Time, Right?
Why collect a hundred books if you can't read or 60 watches if you don't know how to tell time?  Why buy test equipment if you really don't know how to use it?

I bought a DP832.  I have maybe 5 or 6 other power supplies ranging from a couple of really nice Agilent units to some Mastech cheap-o ones. 

Fact is, 90% of the features on the DP832 I won't use.  You seem to be complaining about that... BUT, the ones I will use, I find to be very good on the Rigol.  For example, being able to see all readouts at the same time is much better than having to flip back and forth like on my Fluke.  Being able to punch in a number and press a single button to set volts/amps makes the Rigol much easier to use than my Agilent supply.  Having the V/A/W read-back is better than having to do the math in my head (or hook up the scope) like I would have to with the Agilent.

I will never use the graph-over-time features, nor will I save lots of presents or spend much time changing the color of the screen.  Does that mean it was a mistake for me to buy this supply - in your opinion - even though it is easier to use and works better for the features I will actually use?

That seems incredibly arrogant to me.  Some of the stuff we make is out of various exotic woods.  I cut them on the CNC machines.  I've occasionally had woodworking types act mildly offended that we use CNC machines to cut wood (and we get amazing results), as if somehow straining with shitty equipment and using a hand saw and carving knife is superior to tossing a piece of wood in a CNC machine and walking away while it cuts a perfect part every time.

If you're into making the most out of the least, then more power to you - I just don't get why others who choose a different path are wrong.  It's not like the guys buying the newest equipment are getting irritated that people still use PSU's from the 1990's... the angst seems to be one-sided in the opposite direction.
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #228 on: August 23, 2013, 03:35:10 am »
That seems incredibly arrogant to me.  Some of the stuff we make is out of various exotic woods.  I cut them on the CNC machines.  I've occasionally had woodworking types act mildly offended that we use CNC machines to cut wood

:-DD

These types are funny, aren't they? Sometime, I want to post a design for a tube amp on an audio forum, with both plate and filament powered by DC-DC converters just for shits and giggles.... and lots of SPICE simulation...
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Offline ve7xen

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #229 on: August 23, 2013, 03:46:01 am »
These types are funny, aren't they? Sometime, I want to post a design for a tube amp on an audio forum, with both plate and filament powered by DC-DC converters just for shits and giggles.... and lots of SPICE simulation...
How about a class D tube amp, powered by the DC-DC converters?  :-DD
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Offline c4757p

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #230 on: August 23, 2013, 03:47:34 am »
Ah yes, must be class D.

At least that'll give them magnetics in the signal path, they seem to like that ::)
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Offline Corporate666

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #231 on: August 23, 2013, 03:50:12 am »
That seems incredibly arrogant to me.  Some of the stuff we make is out of various exotic woods.  I cut them on the CNC machines.  I've occasionally had woodworking types act mildly offended that we use CNC machines to cut wood

:-DD

These types are funny, aren't they? Sometime, I want to post a design for a tube amp on an audio forum, with both plate and filament powered by DC-DC converters just for shits and giggles.... and lots of SPICE simulation...

Funny story - a few years ago a certain microcontroller company was trying to push how many varied industries they were in.  They have a "celeb" who is their face on Youtube and in the magazine they send to customers.  So my FAE wants to bring this celeb by our shop to show him the "cool" stuff we do (that is a bit non-traditional for microcontrollers I guess).  So the guy shows up with a bunch of suits from corporate and some lickspittles who were going to formulate the article for the next edition of their magazine.  Everyone (except me and said celeb) seemed to get a bit frustrated that he has zero interest in talking electronics, and just wanted to go out to the shop and check out the CNC machines.  He's ooh-ing and aah-ing over some of the ingenuous fixtures we use to make various parts quickly and accurately, and he's telling me about some machine he built in his basement (probably using leather straps and a water wheel) that lets him cut bowls really thin but without danger of cutting through the side.

So I take him over to this monster of a lathe we have and use for cutting blocks of exotic wood (ebony, purpleheart, tamaring, wenge) - they go in squares and come out cylinders with all the holes drilled ready to accept LED light fixtures.

He watched a couple of cycles run and sort of got this look on his face like someone shoved a lemon up his ass, and grumpily told me that it's unfortunate that such special wood was doomed to be butchered on a robotic machine without the loving touch of a craftsman's hands.

The meeting ended shortly after and there was no story in their magazine  :o

My first experience with the wood snob.  I had no idea.
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Offline c4757p

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #232 on: August 23, 2013, 03:52:46 am »
look on his face like someone shoved a lemon up his ass

You should know that this phrase made me snort coffee. It hurts. Screw you.
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Offline lowimpedance

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #233 on: August 23, 2013, 04:48:35 am »

look on his face like someone shoved a lemon up his ass
Now that has made my week, just in time for the weekend.
May I ask you what is the point of someone bothering with hobbies at all if they could contribute as much to society as a whole by sitting around scratching their ass?

Because it gives them pleasure. They like it. |O
Everyone should have a hobby that tickles their interest.
However if you get an itch in that region, sometimes the only thing that will alleviate it is a damn good scratch! hopefully not in public.  :P. The contribution to society ??.. a happier person  :-//
The odd multimeter or 2 or 3 or 4...or........can't remember !.
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #234 on: August 23, 2013, 05:08:55 am »
True, happiness is a contribution to society. I meant contributions other than happiness! Of course, sitting around scratching my ass makes me happy too... :P
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Offline robrenz

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #235 on: August 23, 2013, 10:53:52 am »
An interesting little comparison of the DP832 to several Agilent's, 2 old HP's and 2 old Power Designs. This chart is annual accuracy of set voltage in percent of value from 1mV to 30V. On the DP832 I am using the readout accuracy which is better than its programming accuracy.  They are listed in roughly least to best from top to bottom on the legend. Roughly because it depends what range of voltage you are comparing. The Agilent b29XXA is a >$5000.00 SMU

« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 02:08:55 pm by robrenz »
 

Offline Fsck

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #236 on: August 23, 2013, 11:06:35 am »
my question would be what confidence interval those accuracies are based on
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Online FrankBuss

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #237 on: August 23, 2013, 11:12:33 am »
How did you measure this? It is not plausible that all 8 power supplies have a buckle at 0.01V, 0.1V and 1V.
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Online Fraser

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #238 on: August 23, 2013, 11:38:32 am »
I'll say one thing for this Rigol power supply, it certainly gets the conversation going  :)

I never thought something as 'boring' as a power supply would release such emotions in people. Rigol may have been very clever in their design as its profile in the marketplace will be raised by forums such as this.

When it comes down to it, in my humble lab I want the following from my power supplies:

1. A well regulated DC voltage
2. The ability to set a constant current
3. Up to 30V with at least 3A capability
4. Low noise levels on the output i.e. it hasn't got a load of crap coming out of it !
5. Easy to set and forget  :)

Super accuracy of the built in meter ?  Nah, I always use my trusty Fluke 87 III or other quality meters to ensure that the voltage and current are correct. I have never trusted built in meters since the days when PSU's just had cheap moving coil meters. I would rather the manufacturer spent the money on the unseen elements of the design. When you think about the cost of a Fluke quality meter, how likely is it that a PSU manufacturer will spend that sort of money on their internal voltage and current meter design ?

My needs are simple compared to some but I think the flashy and weird Rigol would get on my nerves so I will stick with the standard (boring) beige PSU with its single output, clear displays and easy settings.

I feel sure the Rigol will have its followers though.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2013, 11:43:51 am by Aurora »
 

Offline robrenz

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #239 on: August 23, 2013, 11:54:23 am »
How did you measure this? It is not plausible that all 8 power supplies have a buckle at 0.01V, 0.1V and 1V.

That buckle is the affect of being on a logarithmic vertical scale, its not really there. The only real buckles on that chart is the 29XXA SMU which has different specs for different ranges.

Offline ve7xen

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #240 on: August 23, 2013, 04:13:58 pm »
How did you measure this? It is not plausible that all 8 power supplies have a buckle at 0.01V, 0.1V and 1V.
My understanding is that this is not measured performance, but the instrument's accuracy specification at 1y.
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Offline robrenz

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #241 on: August 23, 2013, 04:38:33 pm »
How did you measure this? It is not plausible that all 8 power supplies have a buckle at 0.01V, 0.1V and 1V.
My understanding is that this is not measured performance, but the instrument's accuracy specification at 1y.

Correct, just comparing the published specifications.

Offline Rufus

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #242 on: August 23, 2013, 05:52:14 pm »
Super accuracy of the built in meter ?  Nah, I always use my trusty Fluke 87 III or other quality meters to ensure that the voltage and current are correct.

I regard good and reliable accuracy of set values and display as a big plus precisely because it means I don't have to connect a meter to check voltage or break into the connection to check current.
 

Offline robrenz

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #243 on: August 23, 2013, 06:09:56 pm »
Super accuracy of the built in meter ?  Nah, I always use my trusty Fluke 87 III or other quality meters to ensure that the voltage and current are correct. I have never trusted built in meters since the days when PSU's just had cheap moving coil meters. I would rather the manufacturer spent the money on the unseen elements of the design. When you think about the cost of a Fluke quality meter, how likely is it that a PSU manufacturer will spend that sort of money on their internal voltage and current meter design ?

Several of the PS's on the graph are more accurate than the 87-5 just by setting the voltage value (no read back necessary)

Offline Ronald1962

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #244 on: August 23, 2013, 06:53:48 pm »
Hi Dave,

Get well soon!!!!!!

Whats about yor bench?

On this video it look like that the racks above your bench
are much more empty than they were before.

Regards

Ronald
 

Offline Elandril

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #245 on: August 23, 2013, 09:24:16 pm »
Yes Dave this post is a perfect example of what EE equipment is all about, how many colors can the display show, better looking UI's with more menu features  :-DD  And oh the older Agilent sucks because it does not have a Blinged out display  |O
Well at least the companies that can create the most high tech looking displays are now making money, who cares how well the equipment works, just so long as it looks good  ::)

It would hope that you just came up with that interpretation out of spite for me daring to criticise your holy Agilent product, and not because you cannot read (which would be a shame at your supposed age). In any case, i shall try to spell it out in simpler words: The Agilent PSU is no doubt a professional and high-grade piece of test equipment, BUT that doesn't excuse them for the awful display they saddled their product with. Come on, a triple output PSU that can only display one set of voltage and current - that's what I call stupid  |O, no matter if 1980 or 2013 (especially for the price of more than 1.000 EUR / 1.400 USD). In 2013 though, I consider such a display also as a CRIME, just so they can stay with a 20-30 year old design, and not spend some $40 in hardware plus some software development.

Also, if you had read carefully, you would have realized that also the Rigol unit doesn't get much praise from me, BUT I do consider it s (semi-)professional unit. Also the big names released some products with potentially dangerous faults, which is no excuse, but still makes the product itself a good deal - if you know what you are getting. To sum up, especially the old crowd of manufacturers often try to get away with providing products that lie far below the 2013 possibilities (for the price), so I do consider it a good thing if some new players force them to upgrade their products.

If we all would be happy with the looks and restrictions from 30-years ago, we all might still live in caves and hunt our food with stones - because spears would be too modern. :-DD
 

Online FrankBuss

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #246 on: August 24, 2013, 01:36:45 am »
Someone updated an old multimeter with a modern display as a DIY project:

http://hackaday.com/2013/08/23/upgrading-a-fluke-multimeter-with-a-masterful-addition/

Should be possible with old Agilent PSUs, too. In the worst case do it like in the hackaday project: scan all relevant pins of the main CPU, and then display at least the last selected voltage for a channel, when the user changes to another channel.

If you have too much time, reverse engineer the firmware and create a better one, with a better display.
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Online BravoV

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #247 on: August 24, 2013, 06:01:17 am »
An interesting little comparison of the DP832 to several Agilent's, 2 old HP's and 2 old Power Designs. This chart is annual accuracy of set voltage in percent of value from 1mV to 30V. On the DP832 I am using the readout accuracy which is better than its programming accuracy.  They are listed in roughly least to best from top to bottom on the legend. Roughly because it depends what range of voltage you are comparing. The Agilent b29XXA is a >$5000.00 SMU

Just realized the 6114/5A's performance compared to others, thanks for the chart Robrenz.  :-+

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #248 on: August 24, 2013, 07:17:31 am »
http://hackaday.com/2013/08/23/upgrading-a-fluke-multimeter-with-a-masterful-addition/

Quote
a 2.2? 320×240 LCD display that is a vast improvement on the old stock seven-segment numerical display.

Yeah, cool hack. But how is this a "vast improvement" ?  :-//
 

Online FrankBuss

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #249 on: August 24, 2013, 12:35:15 pm »
Today I got my Siglent SPD3303D. I can try to do a review of it, if anyone is interested. But my German accent is terrible, so I would write an article with measurements etc. on my website, and maybe record a short video for the user interface.

My first impressions so far is a thumb sideways :-\ I can set the voltage in 1V steps with the rotary encoder, or I can push the "fine" button, and then I can change the voltage in 0.01V steps (20 steps per full turn). No acceleration, no way to select 0.1V steps (or at least I didn't find it). But the maximum current can be changed in 0.1A or 0.01A steps. If I turn the knob too fast, steps are missed until it is actually slower than turning the knob more slowly. Well, I can live with it, because I don't change the voltage that often anyway, more often the maximum current.

Then I tried to install the software, because one of my planned applications is to control it via USB from my PC. Well, I started the setup file from the CD-ROM and got this dialog:



Turned out to be the language setting for the installer, I could select "English" in the dropdown box and the first button might mean "install", because after this the software was installed. When I tried to start the installed software, I got an error because of missing VISA32.dll. Looks like they implemented the software with LabVIEW, and tested it just on their own PC, where the library is installed. Didn't found anything mentioned about it in the manual. But I found it the library on the NI website (the runtime environment is free), so after installing it, the software worked. In the software I can change the voltage by entering a number. But I have to click the "Set" button, just the enter key doesn't change it.

A quick measurement of the power-up behavior with my scope shows no problems, and the outputs are turned off until enabled again, as with the Rigol.

BTW: When I try to change the voltage above the maximum 32V on the device, it says "Voltage settings Overspray!". English is not my native language, but this doesn't sound right :)
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