Author Topic: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply  (Read 94250 times)

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Offline c4757p

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2013, 03:39:01 pm »
Generally, if you soft cripple your product, you can bet someone will come along and un-cripple it for you.

Yes, despite saying before that I'm OK with the software options........ you can bet the first thing I'd try to do with this PSU is to defeat them. Hey, I bought the hardware! Your move, Rigol. :box:
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Offline Crazy Ape

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #51 on: August 17, 2013, 03:48:33 pm »
Generally, if you soft cripple your product, you can bet someone will come along and un-cripple it for you.

Yes, despite saying before that I'm OK with the software options........ you can bet the first thing I'd try to do with this PSU is to defeat them. Hey, I bought the hardware! Your move, Rigol. :box:

The funny thing here is that a higher percentage the target customers will be capable of working out all the hacks, as opposed to, let's say, smartphone customers.
 

Offline jancumps

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #52 on: August 17, 2013, 03:51:16 pm »
Your move, Rigol. :box:
No, your move, c4757p. She hasn't been hacked yet.   :-/O
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #53 on: August 17, 2013, 04:32:38 pm »
Just getting warmed up :P
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Offline xchip

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #54 on: August 17, 2013, 04:34:29 pm »
Dave,

I think it is a fair question to ask oneself whether you are getting something in return from the manufacturer for reviewing their stuff.

 It would help a lot if you could write a short note saying that you have no business relationship with Rigol whatsoever, and if you have any please describe the terms.

 I am sure Citizen was not the only one wondering this, so you should have taken his questioning as an opportunity to clarify things with him and with all the rest of the audience who are wondering the same.

 I am a bit disappointed you tried to intimidate Citizen with your tone BTW.

 In my case I did feel a bit suspicious because I saw you dismissing USB scopes(without even asking what problem where they trying to solve) Although you got my trust back when you posted your video on how to buy a 20Mhz scope on EBAY.

I am totally OK if you get paid by some manufacturer but please say it clearly if that happens.

My 2 cents and thanks for the great videos!
Cheers!

Offline hans

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #55 on: August 17, 2013, 05:05:58 pm »
Generally, if you soft cripple your product, you can bet someone will come along and un-cripple it for you.

Yes, despite saying before that I'm OK with the software options........ you can bet the first thing I'd try to do with this PSU is to defeat them. Hey, I bought the hardware! Your move, Rigol. :box:

Totally agreed. I don't like it that the hardware is there for that extra digit, but basically they are like:
Code: [Select]
if (softwareOption)
{
displayValue = Math.Round(value, 3);
}
else
{
displayValue = Math.Round(value, 2);
}

That is worth 90$?!

In my mind 2 digits after the comma is already precision. Most bench supplies only do 1 digit on V and maybe 2 on A, especially if they can deliver 90W of power.

In that essence it would also be very fascinating to see if there are any (open hardware) designs available for a (modular) isolated digital power supply section. Then it would just be a matter of interconnecting all the digital supplies to one control PCB that contains a few button and a graphic LCD from something like iTead (only costs 30$ or something). Ah well, drifting out of course.. :=\
 

Offline IanB

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #56 on: August 17, 2013, 05:11:25 pm »
Hmm. Sad this thread turned into a flame war.

The nice thing about a video (in HD with good clear sound no less) is that we can follow along, we can watch every button press and observe every action and response. We can judge quite well if what we are seeing is real or faked.

I watched this video with considerable enjoyment, and never once doubted that what I was seeing was the real power supply, presented as it is. It looks like a nice supply with one or two user interface niggles and a question mark regarding the power on spikes. You have to judge whether you could live with those. But weighed against that is the very economical price. You pays your money and you takes your choice, as they say.

So anyway, nice review and nice supply.
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Offline firewalker

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #57 on: August 17, 2013, 05:18:20 pm »
The software to take advantage of the one extra digit might worth pennies, but the hardware to create it might cost 90 $.

Alexander.
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 

Offline LoyalServant

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #58 on: August 17, 2013, 05:28:48 pm »
I don't like the knob or keypad either myself.
However, this supply for this price seems like a winner to me.

I have been looking at getting a new supply here soon and I really liked the TTi that Orbiter posted on Youtube and here on the forums
but it looks like I will probably end up with one of these.

I can live with the annoying things like the jog dial and the keypad because of the featureset for the price.

 

Offline madires

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #59 on: August 17, 2013, 05:55:46 pm »
The software to take advantage of the one extra digit might worth pennies, but the hardware to create it might cost 90 $.

Most people will buy the basic model without any software options, I'd guess. So I assume it's more like +$0.5 for the hardware if there's a difference at all. I doubt it. After a tear-down we'll see if there's any "special" hardware or if just the MCU's internal ADC and DAC are used. In the video I saw that the voltage displayed differed a little bit from the selected value. The extra digit doesn't seem to be really existing for the outpt control, more like just for the output measurement and the output control might be slightly better the the basic resolution. And I wouldn't be suprised if the A model is exactly the same hardware but just with all software featues enabled and the colorful display (the 832 got also a color display, but just not used by the firmware besides the color scheme setting).

The only software option I would pay for is the IP network interface, since it might involve a license fee (assuming Rigol bought/licensed the IP stack).
 

Offline ElectroIrradiator

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #60 on: August 17, 2013, 06:55:47 pm »
Is it just me, or would it have been nice if the third rail was 0-6V/3A ?

The extra volt would come in handy in many situations, if for instance you wish to test a digital rail at a slightly higher than normal voltage.
 

Offline adh

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #61 on: August 17, 2013, 06:59:35 pm »
The software to take advantage of the one extra digit might worth pennies, but the hardware to create it might cost 90 $.

Alexander.

I seriously doubt that. You don't need any kind of exotic hardware for 4 digits of precision with few readings per second sample rate that you need for this application. You can even get (essentially low-end) MCUs with integrated ADC that is total overkill for this for like $3 in single quantities. Having this as an software option (or essentially even as hardware option) is only about "does customer need that extra digit so much he is willing to pay 90$ for it?".

There is separate question of calibration, where there certainly could be significant price difference and I assume that is the reason why you get additional digit of precision and not accuracy (that would require recal or rigol to factory calibrate all units as if they have this option, which I doubt they do).
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #62 on: August 17, 2013, 07:51:50 pm »
This power supply looks like a nice buy, from Dave's first impressions. Is it 100% sure it is a good power supply without further detailed testing? No. Did Dave take payment from Rigol? Not directly, but getting free gear could be considered some form or payment but only if Dave supplied a service requested by Rigol. He says he did not and for me that is enough. If people think Dave is lying, say so and leave because that is what you are implying by going on about this.

I like Dave's style, he gives his opinion in this bland politically correct tipy-toe world. Do I agree with every one of Dave's opinions? No. When I disagree with him publicly I don't get jumped on. I expect if I accuse him of lying or taking seeking bribes to promote products then I expect him to get in my face. Does Dave make mistakes or wrong assumptions? Sure, sometimes, who doesn't?

With this review and Dave's general reputation I would believe I would be buying what he says. If not, IT WASN'T A FULL REVIEW! It is always a crap shoot.

Anyway, nice first impressions video Dave.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 07:53:41 pm by Lightages »
 

Offline tom66

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #63 on: August 17, 2013, 08:09:21 pm »
Any chance of a teardown?
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #64 on: August 17, 2013, 09:29:22 pm »
"Show me the evidence where the Rigol has the same signal integrity issues as that Tekway I tested."

I don't own Rigol, so i couldn't compare it to my Takeway. Takeway is  by far not the perfect scope, but it is excellent for its price. I wouldn't expect ideal signal integrity and super smooth operation  from a 300 Euro  scope. But it does its job for hobby segment (the segment it is designed for) very good.

The  bad things you mentioned about this Rigol PSU aren't killer issues, some buttons or colors you don't like,very subjective, who cares.If I would do a payed reviews, i would also point some  light disadvantages , to make my video more credible... Else it would be too perfect.

It seems you don't have tolerance to negative feedback, i know people like that. They ask for feedback, but once you criticize their work,  they go berserk on you.

I actually thought Dave was a bit too picky about the Rigol PSU - complaining about the rotary knob and numerical buttons.  But he comes across as a bit of a nerdy perfectionist in his videos, and I think it's part of his charm.

It's a bit underhanded to accuse him of being a paid shill when you have nothing to support it.  If I may be so bold, you said in this thread you don't have the funds to buy one of these Rigol scopes, and you have the Tekway.  My assumption is that you are probably young and just starting out and a bit irritated that Dave slammed the product you bought - and are justifying your purchase with "Well, Dave is just a paid shill anyway".  But that is quite a serious accusation considering it's the core of his product that you're slandering. 

I don't see what there is to get upset about... millions of people buy scopes other than the Tekway (and other than the Rigol) - they are all people who thought something else was better.  What's wrong with someone not seeing things your way?  It can be that they just have a different opinion.  They could even be right - but whether you think so or not, it doesn't mean they must be giving paid reviews.
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #65 on: August 17, 2013, 09:41:23 pm »
I actually thought Dave was a bit too picky about the Rigol PSU - complaining about the rotary knob and numerical buttons.  But he comes across as a bit of a nerdy perfectionist in his videos, and I think it's part of his charm.

Finally! Somebody gets it!

Dave points out things he likes and things he doesn't like, and it's up to the viewer to decide whether or not they care. Personally, I don't give a damn about the buttons - it's a bit weird, but I could get used to it. And still, I like being made aware of it before I consider purchasing the item.

I'd be more offended if he tried to get in my head and figure out what I want to hear about. He mentions every strong and weak point he can see and you can choose which are important. Yes, it often comes across like whinging, but so what?

Anybody who thinks he's a shill is retarded. Dave would be a complete idiot to call the product designers wankers over things like the dial display mode if he were going to be paid for a positive review. Yes, a good shill would complain about a few minor things too. But please, show me a company that would pay somebody to talk shit about their design goals. And that startup pulse could very well be a show-stopper for many people, and especially for the people who would consider buying a large number of them. (I'm still on the fence - I might personally consider it one, actually.)

And as for whether he was being a bit of an asshole - he was. And I support it. Woe betide the dickhead who calls me a shill! Sometimes assholism is called for.
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Offline xchip

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #66 on: August 17, 2013, 10:33:57 pm »
I am not much into speculating specially when we can ask Dave directly about what sort of relationship does he have with Rigol, and in general with the companies he reviews stuff for.

Sure we all have our own opinion, but how about we wait for Dave to reply and let us know what is going on?



Offline David_AVD

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #67 on: August 17, 2013, 10:35:23 pm »
The numbers around the jog wheel seems awkward to me.  It's a pity they didn't use a more conventional keypad layout and a jog wheel (a smaller knob would be ok) off to the side.
 

Offline crisr

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #68 on: August 17, 2013, 10:36:39 pm »
I don't like deliberate crippling (such as leaving out the extra digit on the display), but software upgradability is generally a good thing, if it lowers the base price. Especially in my country, as our greedy government charges a ridiculously high import duty; software is exempt though, so if I software-upgrade a product after importing it, I don't pay duties on the extra amount that would otherwise be taxed if it was part of the product price or if it was a physical module that had to be imported (and let's not forget the extra shipping costs in that case).

This PSU seems really nice and usable, why the heck couldn't they just have done a more conventional numberpad layout?
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #69 on: August 17, 2013, 11:11:12 pm »
For a moment I thought Dave had a guest presenter for this video.  You sound a bit crook mate!   ???

Sagan and I have a bad virus, of the long lasting 5+ day kind apparently, it's "going around"  :(

Yeah looked a bit dehydrated and not wearing your usual form fitting shirt made you look a bit gaunt.
The larger the government, the smaller the citizen.
 

Offline Rexus

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #70 on: August 17, 2013, 11:17:05 pm »
Having been a reader of Eevblog for a while, this post has finally spurred me on to register.
I am stunned and amazed by the comments of those like Citizen and tinhead who use the forum, watch the videos then come out with unsupported statements accusing Dave of commercial bias and implying dishonesty on his part.

I have watched many of Dave's product reviews and have purchased 3 pieces of test equipment based on them, and have found then to be pretty much as reviewed.

Dave, I'm afraid some of the comments in this thread are just a reflection of the sad world we live in and my advice is ignore them.  As to those who whine and complain about free equipment reviews which are not to their taste, don't watch them!!

 

Offline firewalker

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #71 on: August 17, 2013, 11:23:29 pm »
Well... It could be worse.



Alexander.
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 
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Offline Electro Fan

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #72 on: August 17, 2013, 11:37:27 pm »
Well... It could be worse.



Alexander.

That is FUNNY!  :-DD

- something for both the early and the late adopters, or maybe the innovators and the laggards :)
 

Offline tom66

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #73 on: August 17, 2013, 11:41:47 pm »
I hear the touch tone option is extra.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #509 - Rigol 832 Lab Power Supply
« Reply #74 on: August 17, 2013, 11:45:06 pm »
Dave,
I think it is a fair question to ask oneself whether you are getting something in return from the manufacturer for reviewing their stuff.
It would help a lot if you could write a short note saying that you have no business relationship with Rigol whatsoever, and if you have any please describe the terms.
I am sure Citizen was not the only one wondering this, so you should have taken his questioning as an opportunity to clarify things with him and with all the rest of the audience who are wondering the same.
I am a bit disappointed you tried to intimidate Citizen with your tone BTW.
In my case I did feel a bit suspicious because I saw you dismissing USB scopes(without even asking what problem where they trying to solve) Although you got my trust back when you posted your video on how to buy a 20Mhz scope on EBAY.
I am totally OK if you get paid by some manufacturer but please say it clearly if that happens.

For the last time:
I am not paid by Rigol (or anyone else) to give positive reviews. And I never have been.
I have actively turned down every request for such "paid reviews".
No manufacturer gets to see or comment on the video before I post it, even though they have asked. Those are my terms, and some companies have not dealt with me because of those terms.
Yes, some manufacturers advertise on my website. Rigol do, through their advertising broker. It is likely Rigol don't even know they are advertising on my website, they just pay the brokers to saturate the market, that's how the advertising business works. I have never spoken to anyone at Rigol about advertising. In fact I rarely speak to Rigol at all about anything. They are one of the the least pro-active of the companies I deal with.
Yes, I get to keep some of the gear. If you want to think that's getting "paid" then that's your choice. The truth is manufacturers give away this stuff all the time to reviewers, it is chicken feed for them. I often need to keep this stuff so I can use them in review comparisons etc.
This is all spelled out here:
http://www.eevblog.com/about/

In the case of the Rigol 832, I bought it with my own money, through my local distributor Emona.
 


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