Author Topic: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation  (Read 260633 times)

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Offline nack

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #75 on: August 30, 2013, 08:15:55 am »
So Dave, a 'fix' has already been implemented by Rigol. Is yours going to be replaced? Can you do another investigation on the new unit if you get one? Also 'some other improvements' you speak of would be interesting to know about.
 

Offline firewalker

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #76 on: August 30, 2013, 08:24:11 am »
They will be replacing all Australian units, I don't know about other countries.

Rigol or the distributer?

To bad you voided you warranty!!!  :P :P :P :P

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Offline siklosi

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #77 on: August 30, 2013, 09:12:52 am »
Dave (and Chuck Norris) can't void warranty!!!
 

Offline quarros

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #78 on: August 30, 2013, 09:36:49 am »
Hmmm someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't be a much more cost effective and "elegant" solution to put a pre regulator on the 12V tap with a little standalone board. It could be even using a switching type reg, as the LM317 still would dissipate some excess (keeping the line clean) but the input would be around 8-9 volts, lessening the burden on the LM317.
Or is the 12V input goes somewhere else on the board and therefore needs to be 12V?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #79 on: August 30, 2013, 10:01:33 am »
So Dave, a 'fix' has already been implemented by Rigol. Is yours going to be replaced?

Yes. The Oz distributor (Emona) has confirmed that Rigol are going to replace all units in Oz. Presumably through Emona who then would just charge Rigol whatever it costs. That's usually how these things are handled with most manufacturers.
I do wonder what happens to the old units?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #80 on: August 30, 2013, 10:03:51 am »
Do Rigol use sequential serial numbers? Is there any reason not to post serial numbers here? I'm thinking we could try to establish the range that is affected.

I was asked for my serial number and digital version number, so maybe they can track based on these. But of course you'd expect any decent manufacturer to be able to track this sort of stuff.
 

Offline wizzy

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #81 on: August 30, 2013, 10:07:25 am »
Well, this is an extremely unsatisfactory "solution". I expect expensive test equipment to last for much longer than three years. When I get home I'm going to see if I can see which type of heatsink is fitted to mine, i.e. if it has the fix or not. If not I'll be pushing for a replacement unit, or looking for a way to accelerate failure in the warranty period without breaking the warranty seal.

Hold up.. Rigol offer 3 years warranty, that is pretty damn good for the price point. I also doubt they build failure into their product. Any failure would be due to the fact they are making it to a price,a price which is appealing to you.
If you want top quality test gear that has a 20 year life expectancy you may want to spend more than $400.
 

Offline dr.diesel

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #82 on: August 30, 2013, 10:11:05 am »
They obviously knew about this and had this fix in place for some time.

IIRC Corp just got his, probably others as well.  Means Rigol didn't bother to recall the unsold faulty units, probably just hoping the users of these just don't notice.

Another nail in their coffin of reliability and trustworthiness.

Offline riconette

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #83 on: August 30, 2013, 10:11:55 am »
the longer i think about it the angrier i get.

rigols "new solution" to the problem is still halfhearted. if they redesign the board to relocate the voltage regulator they could also have reserved mounting holes for a bigger heatsink - and with "bigger" i suppose the like ~2cm of height that should still be available. is that too much to ask for? 2cm *more* strand casted aluminium?
its about doing it right after spotting a design flaw, not about doing just whats necessary to avoid further breakdowns.
free bradley manning!
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #84 on: August 30, 2013, 10:14:16 am »
IIRC Corp just got his, probably others as well.  Means Rigol didn't bother to recall the unsold faulty units, probably just hoping the users of these just don't notice.

Yep, I'm a bit miffed that they shipped me one knowing it was like this. And mine wasn't old local stock, it came straight off the plane, I had to wait a bit for it.
 

Offline Lefuneste

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #85 on: August 30, 2013, 10:35:55 am »
I think Rigol is seriously mishandling this design issue so far and they will be forced to update their board again after your review Dave. Seriously your videos are so well known by the community (including Rigol themselves posting your reviews on their website), that there's no way in the Universe that they will escape a proper thermal management of this part now... They will have to handle so many returns, so many complaints (with mysteriously broken warranty stickers), so many questions to support... It's a direct path to a shameful failure. It's true these supplies don't sell like Iphones volume-wise, but considering that Rigol wanted to set a new market standard with this supply, they won't escape this. So in a certain way, your video is going to cost them the money they avoided spending in the first place... There may be some justice in this world after all...
 

alm

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #86 on: August 30, 2013, 10:49:32 am »
I might wait asking for replacement if Rigol comes up with a second (or third :P) iteration of this fix. I'm not impressed either: almost 90°C heatsink temperature at 40°C ambient with presumably decent airflow. And presumably without the additional current draw from the USB port (which hasn't been tested). Not a lot of margin there. It's probably going to work without resetting under most conditions, but I still fear for the life of those caps.

Does any owner feel like hooking up a load to the USB port and measuring the increase in current or temperature of the '317?
 

Offline riconette

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #87 on: August 30, 2013, 11:07:39 am »
just got mail from the reseller i am buying the PS from.

they state that there were problems with the transformer and so also with the voltage regulator. the transformer has been changed in the second generation of the PS and the problems should be void.

thats for the 240V model they sell here in germany… we'll see.
free bradley manning!
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #88 on: August 30, 2013, 11:08:22 am »
Does any owner feel like hooking up a load to the USB port and measuring the increase in current or temperature of the '317?

It would be interesting to see if loading down the USB port can reset the unit...
 

Offline madires

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #89 on: August 30, 2013, 11:10:27 am »
105c caps right next to a device that reaches 111c, smells like planned obsolescence (and boiled electrolyte) to me!

Absolutely! I'd consider placing electrolytic caps directly besides a heatsink (>30-40 °C) in a lab grade device a show stopper. It's built to fail.
 

Offline manicdoc

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #90 on: August 30, 2013, 11:17:45 am »
Just out of interest - what was the no load power consumption on the device? Just wondering how much of that is down to the 5w going out as heat..

I had a similar situation on a robot  powering 5v from 12v and just ordered a little switcher circuit online to do the job.

 

Offline funfairEE

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #91 on: August 30, 2013, 11:25:46 am »
out of interest will they still exchange yours because you voided the warranty by opening it??
 

Offline hikariuk

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #92 on: August 30, 2013, 11:27:45 am »
out of interest will they still exchange yours because you voided the warranty by opening it??

I get the feeling Dave gets a pass on voided warranties for test and lab equipment.
I write software.  I'd far rather be doing something else.
 

Offline dr.diesel

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #93 on: August 30, 2013, 11:28:12 am »
out of interest will they still exchange yours because you voided the warranty by opening it??

I'm quite sure they will exchange Dave's, even if he modded a new heatsink, etc.

Oracle

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #94 on: August 30, 2013, 11:52:15 am »
unbelievable: how can rigol be so blind to make run a regulator to 120°?? It's insane. Good to know about this before buying rigol gears.... But, at least this confirm i was right to invest a lot of money on my lab power supply.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #95 on: August 30, 2013, 12:13:13 pm »
just got mail from the reseller i am buying the PS from.

they state that there were problems with the transformer and so also with the voltage regulator. the transformer has been changed in the second generation of the PS and the problems should be void.

thats for the 240V model they sell here in germany… we'll see.

Interesting - I wonder if maybe the issue was (partly) that the transformer wasn't supposed to put out 12V on that winding - if it had been designed to supply 8-9V after rectification, that may have been OK with that heatsink.
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #96 on: August 30, 2013, 12:15:12 pm »
out of interest will they still exchange yours because you voided the warranty by opening it??
Depending on what country you are in, consumer law means goods must be as described and fit for purpose. Pulling it apart, warranty seals etc. have no bearing unless they can show you caused damage.
This supecedes any warranty condition.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #97 on: August 30, 2013, 12:27:12 pm »
Just a clarification.
There was some mistaken communication that Rigol would be replacing units in Oz. That does not appear to be the case, or at least was an incorrect assumption at this stage. The local rep will simply come good with whatever Rigol come up with (board replacement or whatever). Nothing is confirmed yet, talks are still in progress with Rigol.
 

Offline M0BSW

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #98 on: August 30, 2013, 12:29:33 pm »
Personally I wont' buy anything New that comes with rust on it, for the price of the thing,it's not cheap. I think the rust issue is just pure shoddy, no matter how small, now I'm sitting back on the fence as I almost parted with money for a Rigol scope, now I'm wondering did they cut corners there too. I don't like shoddy Newly bought equipment, it's all about confidence.
no one would or will tell me how to delete this account
 

Offline salviador

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #99 on: August 30, 2013, 12:38:45 pm »
Hi,
I have just buy DP832A ,
will have the same problem?
 :palm:
 


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