Author Topic: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation  (Read 254518 times)

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Offline salviador

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #375 on: September 11, 2013, 12:39:56 pm »
yes, seems to go well.
but I need try approfondite test
 

Offline riconette

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #376 on: September 11, 2013, 12:46:13 pm »
Yes, is RECOM switching regulator 1.5Amp 5V out
work very well.
The resolution is bad of pic but work very well

i'd like to pay 5 bucks more for this kind of solution and, if needed, a low pass t-filter on the output-rail instead of the actual "miniature heating element".
free bradley manning!
 

Offline Zbig

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #377 on: September 11, 2013, 06:40:37 pm »
It was a revised board version already, heh...
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #378 on: September 11, 2013, 08:51:33 pm »
Hi,
I have crack rigol 832 with r-78b5.0-1.5
work very well!!!!!!!!  , does not heat!!
Send the screen

Oh, it looks so weird. Did this leave the Rigol factory?? But it is probably 100% functional and it can work for 20 years. No problem. Only it looks like home made repair...
Amazing machines. https://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)
 

Offline nack

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #379 on: September 11, 2013, 09:07:07 pm »
Hi,
I have crack rigol 832 with r-78b5.0-1.5
work very well!!!!!!!!  , does not heat!!
Send the screen

Oh, it looks so weird. Did this leave the Rigol factory?? But it is probably 100% functional and it can work for 20 years. No problem. Only it looks like home made repair...

It is... ;)
 

Offline MasterOfNone

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #380 on: September 11, 2013, 09:11:23 pm »
Yep that PSU left the Rigol factory with a solution many of us would be very happy with, but it seems like their solution isn’t good enough for some. As stated by Zbig that PSU already had the revised board before it was improved(?)

Anyway I just had a reply from Rigol EU. Basically they stated that they are still setting up the procedure for the ‘Repair/Exchange’ and this might take till next week.
They’ll let me know ‘if’ things are settled and what to do next.
 

Offline mcinque

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #381 on: September 11, 2013, 09:17:41 pm »
Hi,
I have crack rigol 832 with r-78b5.0-1.5
work very well!!!!!!!!  , does not heat!!
Send the screen

Oh, it looks so weird. Did this leave the Rigol factory?? But it is probably 100% functional and it can work for 20 years. No problem. Only it looks like home made repair...

That is NOT a Rigol fix. It's a mod made by the owner. Even though it might be functional, it is truly awful.
I'm basically still a rookie and because of this, even with the best intentions, I often say bullshits
 

Offline stormbr

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #382 on: September 11, 2013, 11:51:33 pm »
The salviador modify a board rev.03 ?

Tequipment.net recall  ;D

Hi Alexandre,

Thanks for reaching out to us in regard to your trouble. Please complete the form and email the completed form to RMA@tequipment.net. We will review and provide further instructions on how to proceed.

In the RMA # field of your form please put "DP832 Recall".

 
We apologize you're experiencing troubles but we will do our best to try and resolve this issue. If you are in need of a product immediately, we suggest placing a new order and we will credit accordingly once we receive the unit back.
 
Thanks so much for your patience and understanding during this process. If you require any additional assistance, please don't hesitate to contact me again.

 

Offline stormbr

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #383 on: September 12, 2013, 11:47:04 pm »
Really, i don't know who is that will pay by the transport, but i think that i will pay.  |O

From brazil to Tequipment.net the cost is 177,00 u$, is better i purchase other dp832 (rev.3 now).


News of Tequipment,

Hello Alexandre,

We will gladly accept your return.  At this time, we are waiting on word from Rigol, as far as how to proceed with getting the units back to them for repair.  I will provide you with instructions soon to return your item.  Thank you for your patience and understanding as we work to complete this process.  I will be in touch with you soon.  In the meantime, if you have any questions, or require further assistance, please feel free to contact us.



« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 11:51:38 pm by stormbr »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #384 on: September 13, 2013, 12:59:02 am »
Much will depend on how Rigol views a purchase....legit country agent or grey market.

I would expect a Recall to mean that Rigol picks up the transport costs to the 'in country' agent. Sadly if a unit is imported and no local dealer exists, Rigol may claim that it was not bought from an authorised local dealer and decline to pay shipping costs.

Good luck to all this affected by this recall. Rigol certainly appear to be doing the 'right thing'.
 

Offline Tepe

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #385 on: September 17, 2013, 02:05:37 pm »
Well, the EEC is a single market so no excuses there.
It's called the EU these days and there are plenty of excuses  :-DD
 

Offline MasterOfNone

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #386 on: September 17, 2013, 07:44:46 pm »
Update from Rigol EU:
Quote

We have ordered plenty of exchange boards/units from our fab to be able to
handle all requests.
But this may take a while till we will receive the parts here in Germany.
We will go ahead and try to speed it up, but the current time schedule is
roughly 6-7 weeks.

As soon as we have received everything we are initiating a board upgrade
procedure.
This will allow your instruments be updated to the newest firmware which
includes a calibration that will improve its low current
measurement capability as well as an upgrade to the latest hardware that
will maintain operating temperature even under
circumstances where supply voltage exceeds nominal values significantly.
Your instrument is eligible to have a firmware and hardware upgrade done at
our expense incl. shipping costs..

Note they are covering the repair and shipping cost of my unit, but I purchased mine directly from Rigol EU, so it might be a special case.
 

Offline thmjpr

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #387 on: September 18, 2013, 08:04:37 am »
Received a PDF:

Quote
Dear Rigol DP800 Series Power Supply Customer,
Thank you again for purchasing a Rigol power supply and trusting part of your bench to us. Recently, we became aware of a thermal management problem on a
previous revision of our power supply board that we have stopped manufacturing in July, 2013. Under certain circumstances and in some regions where higher than
nominal supply line voltage exists, it may cause overheating or instrument protective resetting. Even though this should be a rare occurrence under normal
circumstances in the U.S., we are initiating a board upgrade procedure that you are free to participate in. This will allow your instruments be updated to the newest
firmware which includes a calibration that will improve its low current measurement capability. We will also upgrade to the latest hardware that will maintain operating
temperature even under circumstances where supply voltage exceeds nominal values significantly.
Our records show that your instrument is eligible to have a firmware and hardware upgrade done at our expense. Please go here and fill out the information, call us at
877-4-RIGOL-1, or email us at dp8repairusa rigol.com and we will make arrangements to return your instrument to a service center.
For questions about this process and the issues with the earlier board revision please see our DP8 board version 2.0 FAQ.
Thank you again and please contact us if you have any other questions or concerns.

The underlined words are supposed to be links, but they don't seem to work. Going to send an email to find out.

edit: missing link http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/fs/blocks/showLandingPage/a/1579/p/p-0011/t/page/fm/0
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 05:50:42 am by thmjpr »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #388 on: September 18, 2013, 08:48:32 am »
Interesting that RigolNA have not placed the recall on their product support page for the 832.

http://www.rigolna.com/applications/

No mention of a fix for the switch-on transient either.

« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 08:50:48 am by Aurora »
 

Offline twjtwj

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #389 on: September 18, 2013, 03:59:23 pm »
I just received that note today as well. That was fast! :)

 

Offline manticore00

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #390 on: September 18, 2013, 05:52:01 pm »
My account rep at TEQuipment sent me that note today but said that since Rigol USA doesn't have any of the new boards yet I should wait for a few weeks and contact Rigol directly to see if they have any of the boards in stock for fixes.
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
 

Offline Marc M.

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #391 on: September 19, 2013, 12:33:34 am »
I decided to pick up an 832 for the bench so I sent an RFQ into TEqupment on 9/10.  They responded on 9/11 and mentioned that a problem had been found with the 800 series of power supplies.  As a result of this issue, shipping would be delayed 3 weeks, possibly more.  At the time they were still showing 33 832's in stock.  I was happy to see that TE was upfront with the issues and were not going to ship anything until the problem was resolved.  I was surprised when a couple of days later I got a notice from TE that it had been shipped :-//.  It arrived on the 16th.  The first thing I did when I unpacked it was check the board.  Sure enough, it's got a V2.0 board with the cap heater :--.  Interestingly, it's less than 40 units away from the S/N that that Crazy Aussie Bloke tore down  :wtf:.  I immediately e-mailed TE asking why oh why would they ship out a unit that's known to be defective. 
Their response: an isolated clerical error |O. I'm curious if anybody else has ordered an 832 from TE in the past week or so and also been shipped a known defective unit.
 
My account rep at TEQuipment sent me that note today but said that since Rigol USA doesn't have any of the new boards yet I should wait for a few weeks and contact Rigol directly to see if they have any of the boards in stock for fixes.
According to the letter from Rigol, boards will be replaced as they become available and areas that are prone to overheating will have priority.  They downplay the issue in the United States basically putting us last in line but stated if you are experiencing the reset issue to contact Rigol or your distributor directly for an RMA.  I've had mine on for 12+ hours the past couple of days and haven't had any issues, nor do I expect any.  Of course I prefer my caps raw, not baked so I've already filled out the form for replacement.  They also mention that in addition to updating the hardware, they will update the firmware and recalibrate the unit which will "improve it's low current measurement capability".  So it sounds like they are also addressing the <10ma setting bug :-+
Don't replace the cap, just empty the filter!
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #392 on: September 19, 2013, 01:21:51 am »
Received a PDF:

Wow, they acknowledged the resetting issue  :-+
I've been told that I am the only one to ever see that and they had a real hard time reproducing it, but they eventually did right at the design extremes.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #393 on: September 19, 2013, 01:03:31 pm »
240V is only 4.3% above 230V, hardly "significantly above nominal". I really doubt that the supply voltage being 4.3% higher would be the difference between the regulator reaching over 100C or not. Still, as long as they are fixing it that's fine.

On top of that you have normal production variations in the LM317 die, and with it being used above absolute maximum temp rating, anything goes.
 

Offline Steffen

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #394 on: September 19, 2013, 07:28:56 pm »
I think cooling dimensioning issues are everywhere.
In the past i had to address a similar resetting problem with a Siemens ADSL router. The same LM317 issue: Siemens used one 317 as 5V regulator, didn't put any radiator. The router resetted spontaneously and lost all configuration data. Good that i had a backup file. I nealy burned my finger during checking of temperature issues.
Solution: I put a small clip-on finger radiator to the 317 and now all is fine. No reset anymore.
 

Offline mcinque

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #395 on: September 19, 2013, 08:07:56 pm »
I think cooling dimensioning issues are everywhere.

Of course where QA is missing.
I'm basically still a rookie and because of this, even with the best intentions, I often say bullshits
 

Offline hikariuk

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #396 on: September 19, 2013, 08:16:53 pm »
Quote
In situations where the supply line voltage is significantly above nominal values control components can overheat. For Instance, some countries have power line voltage that used to be 240V, but is now 230V +/- 10%. 240V is still a perfectly correct power line, but it can cause overheating on the DP8 board.  This can lead to a protective reset condition and/or performance outside of specifications.

240V is only 4.3% above 230V, hardly "significantly above nominal". I really doubt that the supply voltage being 4.3% higher would be the difference between the regulator reaching over 100C or not. Still, as long as they are fixing it that's fine.

I'm bemused as to how 240V could be "significantly above nominal" when the UK average voltage is still around 240V (I've seen up to 245V quoted).
I write software.  I'd far rather be doing something else.
 

Offline HackedFridgeMagnet

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #397 on: September 19, 2013, 11:07:53 pm »
It goes up to 253v in Australia and is still within spec.
I think it is quite common for the line voltage to go this high, as it can happen when your neighbour's solar panels are going full tilt. At this point they will cut out, so you shouldn't get higher voltages.
The fact that the unit was resetting makes it significant in my opinion, if the underlying cause was actually only the line voltage. Which is far from certain.

What about the display control circuitry, maybe that was drawing too much current. 700mA seems a lot.
 

Offline nack

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #398 on: September 20, 2013, 09:32:51 am »
I couldn't wait. Found a nice heatsink I didn't use and inside it went. Mounted the TO220 lm317 isolated on the heatsink and it mates with the PCB using a small cable and pcbmount connector. Now at power on for about an hour the heatsink does barely even feel warm.
 

Offline mcinque

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Re: EEVblog #512 - Rigol DP832 Bad Design Investigation
« Reply #399 on: September 20, 2013, 11:11:22 am »
I couldn't wait. Found a nice heatsink I didn't use and inside it went.

Nice, clean and excellent solution!  :-+ :-+
I love it!  :-+
I'm basically still a rookie and because of this, even with the best intentions, I often say bullshits
 


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