Author Topic: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown  (Read 25334 times)

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Online EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2013, 02:30:17 pm »
It would be interesting to see how they actually work. They can't defy the laws of optics any more than a flying brick can't defy gravity.

Of course. But when you design something like this for one specific relatively narrow range of operation for one task, as opposed to a general purpose still or video camera that must give good performance over a much wider performance range, I suspect you are able to extract better performance than a general purpose device allows.
 

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2013, 02:33:04 pm »
http://www.tagarno.com/en/frontpage/products/inspection.aspx
There is a post about Dave :D

Wow, I wonder how they found out? Maybe they watch the blog?
I'm #6 on youtube for Tagarno already, which is good considering the video is not about the Tagarno and it's name is not used in the title.
EDIT: Ah, they link to my tweet photo from the show, so maybe they are tracking the name on twitter.
 

Offline kayvee

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2013, 02:37:49 pm »
Maybe Tooms up there gets some credit too :)
 

Offline Tooms

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2013, 02:39:54 pm »
http://www.tagarno.com/en/frontpage/products/inspection.aspx
There is a post about Dave :D

Wow, I wonder how they found out? Maybe they watch the blog?
I'm #6 on youtube for Tagarno already, which is good considering the video is not about the Tagarno and it's name is not used in the title.
EDIT: Ah, they link to my tweet photo from the show, so maybe they are tracking the name on twitter.

Dave, i have talked with the marking team this morning and told them that i think it will be an good idea if they send a scope your way and i have posted about it in this thead today.



Post in this thread from today:
Quote
Hi

just to say that as tagarno.dk is Danish company and i am from Denmark, so i have sendt Tagarno an mail that it will be an good idea for them to follow up on the video that Dave just has made and i have already got an response back from Tagarno that they like that idea and will contact Dave.

So Dave i guess that you maybe can make the wishlist ready for Tagarno 


Note: i dont know or work for Tagarno, i am just an fan there has sent them an mail.. thats it.


Tooms
 

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2013, 01:10:26 am »
Thanks Tooms
Yes, I got their email this morning.
 

Offline Tooms

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2013, 06:00:23 am »


Super, hope they give you some nice offer.  ;D


/Tooms
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2013, 06:14:16 pm »
Nice looking microscope, best way to describe it would be as being close to invisible. It was easy to use, easy to adjust ( no training on the part of Dave as to how to use it with reasonable results instantly) and pretty good display.
 

Offline iceisfun

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2013, 11:21:52 pm »
I hope we see one of those Tagarno devices in the lab soon! Its sounding good so far
 

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2013, 12:08:10 am »
It will be a few months at least, but you might eventually see a Tagarno in the lab...
 

Offline synapsis

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2013, 12:23:31 am »
So... have any spares for us blind folk? ;)

I just tried out the extension tube. It actually works fairly well. I couldn't get much depth because the lens was disconnected from the camera electronics by the tube, but I'll definitely be using it for board photography. If I had a lens I could close the aperture down manually on, this would be a totally feasible scope.

The distance of the lens from the board was 35cm. Around 180mm focal length, 50mm tube, aperture stuck at f2.8.

Edit: Brought the photo down to monitor size, as you'd use with a scope.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 12:26:08 am by synapsis »
 

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2013, 01:36:22 am »
I just tried out the extension tube. It actually works fairly well. I couldn't get much depth because the lens was disconnected from the camera electronics by the tube, but I'll definitely be using it for board photography. If I had a lens I could close the aperture down manually on, this would be a totally feasible scope.
The distance of the lens from the board was 35cm. Around 180mm focal length, 50mm tube, aperture stuck at f2.8.
/quote]

Do I detect a hint of edge distortion there?
Is that the highest zoom poossible?
 

Offline synapsis

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2013, 03:46:53 am »
The edge distortion is because the aperture was stuck 100% open. I need to get some flat flex to pass the camera signals across the tube. If I could close the aperture down even to f11 the distortion would be much less, and the range that things are in focus would increase.

To increase the zoom would require more focal length, which I don't have.

To replicate what I'm using to make that image is already near the price of a used Mantis scope on eBay, though.
 

Offline peter.mitchell

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2013, 10:17:28 am »
Do you have a canon DSLR? if so, with the camera on, set your aperture, hold the DOF Preview button and while still on and holding the button, release the lens from the body. The lens should remain stopped down, and you should be able to use that more usefully. Unsure if the same thing works for Nikon sony ect.
 

Offline Otatiaro

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2013, 02:59:23 pm »
Hello,

I bought this to try with my camcorder, I already have the lens, and LED ring, I'll give it a try with the arm.
http://www.amazon.fr/gp/product/B0011EHRDM/ref=ox_ya_os_product

So that I can compare with the Magnus HD ZIP next week.


Thomas.
 

Offline synapsis

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2013, 04:17:39 pm »
Do you have a canon DSLR? if so, with the camera on, set your aperture, hold the DOF Preview button and while still on and holding the button, release the lens from the body. The lens should remain stopped down, and you should be able to use that more usefully. Unsure if the same thing works for Nikon sony ect.

I do, a T2i. I'm going to have to try that once I get time to drag the gear back out again. Thanks for the tip!  :-+
 

Offline Otatiaro

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2013, 12:33:05 pm »
Hello,

Received the manfrotto magic arm. It is very well biult and very strong.

The Opteka macro lens x10 is too much, the focal lense is less than 100mm. I ordered a polaroid set of macro lenses, I hope the x4 lens will be much more usable. I also ordered a polarized lens because the worst thing you have to fight against is reflection.

Using the LED ring on the lens, it is very bright but you get far too much reflections. I'll try with semi flexible LED lights from IKEA, 2 or 3 should be ok and give a far better lighting than LED ring.

I plugged the HDMI output from the camcorder (panasonic HC-V700) to a 27" screen, and the result is already very good, with a few tweaks I guess it will be pretty much as usable as the magnus hd zip ... I'll only miss a remote control for zoom and focus. If it proves to be very usefull, then I'll probably change the camcorder for a better one with a remote.

Thomas.
 

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2013, 01:15:53 pm »
I plugged the HDMI output from the camcorder (panasonic HC-V700) to a 27" screen

Just be aware that the Tagarno spec their zoom level with a 22" monitor if you are doing direct zoom number comparisons.
Zoom figures are always misleading, I'd prefer to see a simple "visible image diameter" figure at max zoom.
 

Offline Otatiaro

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2013, 09:11:29 am »
Hello,

I did a frist test with proper lighting and no macro lens, I can get a very good image with maximum zoom being 7cm width.
Using full HD, that's less than 40µm per pixel.

Distortion is minimal (placed a ruler at the edges to check), contrast is very good, less reflections.

I hope I can get much more zoom with +4 macro lens (I can't go over 8x optic zoom on the camcorder, it can go up to 46x/60x with no resolution loss). I should receive polarized lens and macro lenses on wednesday.

Thomas.
 

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2013, 09:13:11 am »
I did a frist test with proper lighting and no macro lens, I can get a very good image with maximum zoom being 7cm width.

IIRC, with my x10 Opteka macro lens and camera at full zoom I get 50mm visible image width. Will have to confirm that though.
 

Offline Otatiaro

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2013, 09:41:46 am »
Hello,

Did a few tests with opteka 10x lens ... the lens is 100mm from the object to shoot.

You can get the pictures here : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3574941/MacroCorder.zip

In fact the camcorder can shoot 5.1Mpxl still pictures while still sending full hd stream to the HDMI monitor.

The resistors is 0603 package. S1030007.JPG is at max zoom (60x) with opteka x10 lens. This is just insane and not usable to work under.

08 and 09 are 2 shots of one of my boards at reasonnable zoom.

10 shows the focus is still good across a few millimeters, much more than I expected.

11 shows a ruler at max zoom ... yes this is barely more than 2mm, that's (in theory) 2.3mm over 3200 pixels, hence 720 nano meters per pixel ! Say real resolution is about 50x less (checked on the resistor picture, there is less than 50pixels to go from black to white on marking edge), that's still less than 40µm.

I hope with polariod macro lens I can get about 250mm working distance between the object and the lens, and still get at least as much zoom as the Magnus HD zip.

Of course it is not as comfortable as the Magnus HD zip because you miss the remote with zoom and focus control ... zoom is quite easy to change on the camcorder itself, focus is not (it would be on the HC-X920, you have a ring to change focus). But you get the ability to very easily record still pictures or full HD records of what you are doing.

Thomas.
 

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #45 on: September 22, 2013, 09:56:23 am »
Wow, that's pretty damn good!
Seems like a decent lens and camera combo there.
 

Offline Otatiaro

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #46 on: September 22, 2013, 11:56:01 am »
Hello,

Result is already great, but x10 is too much, 100mm from lens to object is very limiting to work under with an iron.

x4 should be a lot better, and polarized lens should increase the contrast and remove part of light reflections.

Thomas.

PS : what it cost me :

- Panasonic HC-V700  = approx 425€ one year ago with 2 batteries at Darty
- Manfrotto magic arm kit = approx 150€ at amazon.fr
- 4 macro lenses + 4 filter lenses = approx 50€ at amazon.fr
- 3x LED light from IKEA = approx 30€
- HDMI cable = a few euros ...

For a total of less than 700€. Probably not as comfortable as the Magnus HD ZIP, but for 4x less money ... and you can take still pictures and record Full HD movies. You also have a (very) small screen on the camcorder that you can use for some jobs.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 12:00:33 pm by Otatiaro »
 

Offline synapsis

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #47 on: September 23, 2013, 03:14:05 am »
The issue I had using my camcorder was the massive delay between movement I was doing (tip of the iron for instance) and that movement showing up in the video. It was very distracting. Do you have that issue?

I was using floodlights, so I don't *think* shutter speed was the issue.
 

Offline Otatiaro

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #48 on: September 23, 2013, 06:14:24 am »
Hello,

I will check again but I did not feel any delay at all.

Thomas.
 

Offline jancumps

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Re: EEVblog #521 - Picoscope 5000 USB Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #49 on: September 23, 2013, 06:54:10 am »
Hello,

I will check again but I did not feel any delay at all.

Thomas.
Then it must be ok. Our brain is confused by the slightest delays. You would have noticed it while trying.
 


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