Author Topic: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant  (Read 120859 times)

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Offline WarSim

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EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #250 on: October 12, 2013, 11:37:53 pm »


OEM purchase here means you buy a $10 mouse or keyboard..............
The licence requires the purchase of 3 core components.  Anything less is circumventing the licence.  I guess I have my answer.  :)
As written before, not here, I found the article:
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Microsoft-muss-im-OEM-Streit-Niederlage-einstecken-29554.html
It says that the Federal Supreme Court of Germany judged, that Microsoft can't forbid that distributors are selling OEM versions and the end users can activate it on any computer. And it is indeed no problem: I have a few OEM licenses of Windows XP, Windows 7 and Windows 8 for my main PC and VMs for development, all bought from eBay for EUR 30 .. EUR 40, and activated without problems.
I think the same is true for the European Union, but I can't find any sentence which says this exactly for Microsoft OEM software.
Yes that judgment was years ago but Microsoft is above the law, just ask them. 
 

Offline WarSim

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EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #251 on: October 12, 2013, 11:44:22 pm »


OEM purchase here means you buy a $10 mouse or keyboard..............
The licence requires the purchase of 3 core components.  Anything less is circumventing the licence.  I guess I have my answer.  :)

You if you upgrade your quad core you're golden, right? ;)

I like that one :).

BTW:  My only installs of Windows is in Parallels, VBox is great by still has a few issues I keep running into.  I have gone too deep into Windows OS to ever trust it ever as my main OS.  Yes even it it is "improved".  LOL.  My last 10k Windows workstation is several years in the past, and it will stay there. 
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #252 on: October 13, 2013, 12:28:43 pm »
BTW:  My only installs of Windows is in Parallels, VBox is great by still has a few issues I keep running into.

How's the Altium 3D view when running in Parallels? I run it in vbox, and the 3D view is about the only thing I have issues with (aka unusable).
 

Offline WarSim

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EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #253 on: October 13, 2013, 05:13:08 pm »

BTW:  My only installs of Windows is in Parallels, VBox is great by still has a few issues I keep running into.

How's the Altium 3D view when running in Parallels? I run it in vbox, and the 3D view is about the only thing I have issues with (aka unusable).
I can,t tell you.  I am following this thread for that information also.  But given the Windows or nothing zealots the people with our answers may opt not to post the information.  Currently I am using Eagle for Mac at home.  At work we use Altium on a dedicated standalone Windows workstation.  It fails security requirements so it can't be connected to our networks.
 

Offline tszaboo

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #254 on: October 14, 2013, 04:27:04 am »
BTW:  My only installs of Windows is in Parallels, VBox is great by still has a few issues I keep running into.

How's the Altium 3D view when running in Parallels? I run it in vbox, and the 3D view is about the only thing I have issues with (aka unusable).
There is a "test 3D" button (in options), you should consider pressing it.

WarSim: Mac failed productivity requirements, so we dont use it at work.

Former username: NANDBlog
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #255 on: October 14, 2013, 04:55:57 am »
There is a "test 3D" button (in options), you should consider pressing it.

A button in Altium, or a button in a Virtualbox menu? Either way, exactly what menu is this in?
 

Offline tszaboo

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #256 on: October 14, 2013, 05:08:48 am »
There is a "test 3D" button (in options), you should consider pressing it.

A button in Altium, or a button in a Virtualbox menu? Either way, exactly what menu is this in?
Sorry, it is test DirectX.
Former username: NANDBlog
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #257 on: October 14, 2013, 01:20:18 pm »
Ah, thanks. Yes, I have pressed that button many a time during the various tests. ;) Anyways, that Test DirectX says it passes with flying colors. But in the end it doesn't work, so I have DirectX turned off. That way it uses GDI, so that I can work in 2D without problems.
 

Offline AlfBaz

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #258 on: October 14, 2013, 01:26:59 pm »
I'm sure I read somewhere they were deprecating GDI
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #259 on: October 14, 2013, 01:37:58 pm »
I'm sure I read somewhere they were deprecating GDI
Yup, you get a popup in Altium mentioning that very thing. But so far, so good ... so what.
 

Offline ohmineer

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #260 on: October 14, 2013, 06:20:13 pm »
I am not sure if Altium means to target Cadsoft / Diptrace market.
I don't why but I think that all the people waiting for a entry level tool (Under $300) from will be dissapointed as the final release will cost $1000 or more (But that's only a feeling).
 

Online VEGETA

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #261 on: October 22, 2013, 02:15:09 am »
still nothing so far, i wonder when will they release it

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #262 on: October 22, 2013, 03:18:39 am »
I am not sure if Altium means to target Cadsoft / Diptrace market.
I don't why but I think that all the people waiting for a entry level tool (Under $300) from will be dissapointed as the final release will cost $1000 or more (But that's only a feeling).

That is precisely why I did the video, because I also have the gut feeling the "entry level" version will be in the 4 digit range, with no free version.
Yes, Altium's goal is to take on Eagle.
 

Offline Rufus

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #263 on: October 22, 2013, 04:43:55 am »
That is precisely why I did the video, because I also have the gut feeling the "entry level" version will be in the 4 digit range, with no free version.Yes, Altium's goal is to take on Eagle.

My AD14 license now describes itself as

"Commercial - This license can be used to design products in a commercial environment"

The implication being there will be other types?
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #264 on: October 22, 2013, 05:20:58 am »
In the press release they mention 3 flavors.
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #265 on: October 22, 2013, 05:22:43 am »
http://www.altium.com/en/altium/press-center/press-releases/altium-delivers-new-altium-designer-14

Quote
License options

Altium Designer is available in three major license options?

Altium Designer 14
Full custom board design and manufacturing capabilities. Native 3D PCB design and editing. Complete front-end engineering design system for both board-level and programmable logic design. Analog and digital simulation, System-on-FPGA implementation.

Altium Designer 14 SE
This option is for the system engineer with complete front-end schematic design for both board-level and programmable logic design. Analog and digital simulation, System-on-FPGA implementation

Altium Designer 14 Viewer
Free, quick, easy and secure read-only exploration of Altium Designer projects and documents
 

Offline Rufus

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #266 on: October 22, 2013, 05:40:33 am »
http://www.altium.com/en/altium/press-center/press-releases/altium-delivers-new-altium-designer-14

Quote
License options

Altium Designer is available in three major license options?

Those three options have always been available. The full package, the full package less PCB, and a viewer.  The 'Commercial' license description is new.
 

Offline ohmineer

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #267 on: October 23, 2013, 06:08:48 pm »
Quote
License options

Altium Designer is available in three major license options?

Altium Designer 14
Full custom board design and manufacturing capabilities. Native 3D PCB design and editing. Complete front-end engineering design system for both board-level and programmable logic design. Analog and digital simulation, System-on-FPGA implementation.

Altium Designer 14 SE
This option is for the system engineer with complete front-end schematic design for both board-level and programmable logic design. Analog and digital simulation, System-on-FPGA implementation

Altium Designer 14 Viewer
Free, quick, easy and secure read-only exploration of Altium Designer projects and documents


Is that all or should we expect anything else?

If so... Where is the Altium's "entry tool"?
Maybe they call entry tool to the viewer |O -> Everybody knows that the only way of learning electronics is looking at examples and circuits from other people.

Quote
Pricing and availability
Altium Designer 14 pricing starts at $7,245 USD, including a one year subscription.

Not sure if my blinky project will worth it :-DD
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #268 on: October 23, 2013, 06:44:49 pm »
i asked the question on the AD14 demoday yesteraday
.
yes they will release a scaled down version . january february timeframe.
as to what will be the limitations : they would not disclose. but it is confirmed it is in the works.
pricepoint : placed to attack eagle.

And that is all they would say about it.

the eagle importers are in AD14 ( released 3 days ago )
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Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #269 on: October 23, 2013, 08:49:12 pm »
The question though if it's priced to compete with the hobbyist version of Eagle (free to $150 or so) or the commercial standard/professional license ($500+).
 

Offline gman4925

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #270 on: October 24, 2013, 05:38:35 am »
 

Offline AndyC_772

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #271 on: October 24, 2013, 07:27:58 am »
Competing with the basic version of Orcad PCB Designer would be a good start... about £2k here in the UK.

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #272 on: October 24, 2013, 08:19:02 am »
Altium Designer 14 pricing starts at US$7,245, including a one year subscription
Is that the end of the entry level discussion?

Altium 14 has nothing to do with the entry level discussion, it's simply the next version of their flagship product, not their entry level product.
I have heard that no release of the entry level version is imminent.
One can only speculate that is due to being busy with the R14 release.
But of course if they did the entry level version "right", it's exactly the same package as R14 but with license/feature restrictions.
They must go ahead with the low cost version though, it's a huge part of their big "pyramid" roadmap they have sold to the investors.
So I'm left to wonder if this means they aren't "doing it right", and are going to come out with some separate package and goof the whole thing up. I hope not, but that would be typical Altium.
 

Offline hikariuk

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #273 on: October 24, 2013, 10:01:25 am »
pricepoint : placed to attack eagle.

Well that could be anywhere between £140 and £1,200 depending on which version of Eagle they're targeting...

I write software.  I'd far rather be doing something else.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #274 on: October 24, 2013, 12:30:10 pm »
Well that could be anywhere between £140 and £1,200 depending on which version of Eagle they're targeting...

My money is on the latter, and that's why I did the video, to point out how and why that is the wrong path.
 


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