Author Topic: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant  (Read 122003 times)

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Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #325 on: August 14, 2014, 09:38:16 am »
Dave, is there any word on what library/libraries might be included?

Yes, but I'm not sure if I should discuss that.
Suffice it to say that currently the libraries are only available if you are a paying subscriber.
Ease of creation of new parts is way more important than breadth of library parts, and as long as parts can easily be shared between people, that issue will take care of itself.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #326 on: August 14, 2014, 09:44:04 am »
Ease of creation of new parts is way more important than breadth of library parts, and as long as parts can easily be shared between people, that issue will take care of itself.

Ease, I'm not sure, but lets jut say there is something potentially a bit innovative in the library department.
 

Offline DerekG

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #327 on: August 14, 2014, 10:05:14 am »
This will a show stopper for me (Windows only).  Currently using Eagle, eying Kicad down the road.

Altium runs fine on a Mac using VMware. Running it on a large Mac monitor with zillions of pixels is a fantastic experience.

Ease, I'm not sure, but lets jut say there is something potentially a bit innovative in the library department.

So maybe Altium have decided to allow users of this new low cost/free edition access to the Component Vault if you take up some form of a subscription. This would continue with their current business plan.
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Offline FrankBuss

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #328 on: August 14, 2014, 10:20:56 am »
This will a show stopper for me.  Currently using Eagle, eying Kicad down the road.
Before Eagle switched to Qt, the program was Windows only, too, but worked fine in Wine for Linux. Maybe the new Altium software works in Wine, too? Then you don't need to install the free Oracle VirtualBox and Windows 7 from eBay for 30 bucks.

For me as a semiprofessional user, the current Altium Designer was too complex and too expensive. If both changes, I might change, even as a long time Eagle user since DOS, because when I see , I get jealous, even if the program crashes sometimes. Recently Eagle got the "follow me" routing feature, but that's it for advanced interactive router. No trace pushing mode etc.
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Offline Rigby

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #329 on: August 14, 2014, 01:36:38 pm »
Ease of creation of new parts is way more important than breadth of library parts, and as long as parts can easily be shared between people, that issue will take care of itself.

Ease, I'm not sure, but lets jut say there is something potentially a bit innovative in the library department.

oh dave stop teasing us, cripes.  :)  say nothing or say everything!  these "hints" are torture.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #330 on: August 14, 2014, 02:21:35 pm »
oh dave stop teasing us, cripes.  :)  say nothing or say everything!  these "hints" are torture.

You would have preferred I said nothing?
I can't say everything for obvious reasons, Altium haven't formally announced it yet. But because I effectively started this whole thing (and my video did actually help them) they wanted me to know about it first and get my feedback, and said I could tell people that it is finally going to happen and they haven't dumped the idea.
Guess I'm back in their good books, although I'm still banned from their forum  ;D
 

Offline Rigby

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #331 on: August 14, 2014, 02:26:22 pm »
Well, you do understand what teasing is, and you do understand that this is something we're all interested in, so you will understand that when we hear information about this that gives us more curiosity, that the forced withholding of information by you and Altium will make some of us wish that we had remained ignorant of the matter entirely.  Not everyone, mind you, just some.

I'm quite happy that Altium are coming out with a free version, and I do hope that they are clever about the features that they include and omit, when compared with the full Designer product.
 

Online AlfBaz

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #332 on: August 14, 2014, 04:43:18 pm »
although I'm still banned from their forum  ;D
Time to revive the good old Protel eda mailing list  :)
 

Offline alimirjamali

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #333 on: August 14, 2014, 05:39:49 pm »
You can always use an emulator, some people do that.

Once it is released, I will test it to see if it works on Wine. Sometimes EDA tools function properly one Wine (e.g. I have LTspice IV on Ubuntu+Wine  ;D), sometimes they function only within a VM (which requires a M$-Windows license  >:().
 

Offline Rigby

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #334 on: August 14, 2014, 09:06:54 pm »
So get a copy of windows... They're not that expensive... USD$100 from newegg.  Worth every penny.
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #335 on: August 14, 2014, 09:14:47 pm »
Once it is released, I will test it to see if it works on Wine.

:-DD

Most complex thing that runs properly on Wine is LTspice...
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Offline DerekG

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #336 on: August 14, 2014, 10:03:56 pm »
Guess I'm back in their good books, although I'm still banned from their forum  ;D

Did you forget to pay your Altium subscription, or did you criticise the product or the management too much?
I also sat between Elvis & Bigfoot on the UFO.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #337 on: August 14, 2014, 10:09:37 pm »
Well, you do understand what teasing is, and you do understand that this is something we're all interested in, so you will understand that when we hear information about this that gives us more curiosity, that the forced withholding of information by you and Altium will make some of us wish that we had remained ignorant of the matter entirely.  Not everyone, mind you, just some.

Too bad for them  :P
 

Online Kjelt

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #338 on: August 19, 2014, 11:13:17 am »
but lets jut say there is something potentially a bit innovative in the library department.
Ah guessing time: you have to pay per component (librarypart) or library and you are not able to create your own parts/libraries?
Or it is like a booklibrary, you have to buy a time limited subscription to use their library, the software is free the library have to be bought/leased.
 

Online tautech

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #339 on: August 19, 2014, 11:37:55 am »
but lets jut say there is something potentially a bit innovative in the library department.
Ah guessing time: you have to pay per component (librarypart) or library and you are not able to create your own parts/libraries?
Or it is like a booklibrary, you have to buy a time limited subscription to use their library, the software is free the library have to be bought/leased.
Well free version or not, it will be no use to man or beast if:
1. you can't make a custom footprint
2. you can't import that custom footprint into a later purchased Altium version
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Offline firewalker

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #340 on: August 20, 2014, 07:44:38 am »
Is it a new program from scratch or the existing code from Altium Designer crippled?

Is it less than 500 gbytes?

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #341 on: August 20, 2014, 10:06:22 am »
Is it a new program from scratch or the existing code from Altium Designer crippled?

It is not Altium Designer crippled, it is a new program. How much code it shares with AD I do not know, clearly it must share some.
But the UI has been completely re-done to make it easier for first time users.
 

Offline DerekG

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #342 on: August 20, 2014, 11:20:17 am »
But the UI has been completely re-done to make it easier for first time users.

Dave, when do you expect to be able to have a play?

Hey, a video for us would be great.
I also sat between Elvis & Bigfoot on the UFO.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #343 on: August 20, 2014, 11:56:55 am »
Dave, when do you expect to be able to have a play?

I don't know.
Presumably at or just before the announcement. But then it's only going to be a beta version before the full release.
Yes, they will be inviting people to join the beta program. They don't want existing AD beta testers because this is aimed at an entirely different market.
 

Offline firewalker

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #344 on: August 20, 2014, 12:11:25 pm »
I am guessing the program will be given "as is" without upgrade option to something more. The next step will be Altium Designer?

Alexander.
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Online Kjelt

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #345 on: August 20, 2014, 12:11:59 pm »
The 1M$ question is: will it be as good or even better as the original ?
When I see a lot of topics about Altium crashing once a week they better do their homework on this one.
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #346 on: August 20, 2014, 12:28:31 pm »
Another key point is whether it will have an open data format, so designs can be exchanged with other packages.
If it won't at the very least import Eagle then they'll have seriously messed up if they're targetting the low end.

 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #347 on: August 20, 2014, 12:48:49 pm »
I am guessing the program will be given "as is" without upgrade option to something more. The next step will be Altium Designer?

As stated in their original shareholder presentation on this, they are going after the low cost/low end market, and you can't do that with just a free version. That would also be a 100% waste of resources to develop and maintain.
So yes, there will be a free version, but there will also be paid options for those that want it, and don't want to "step up" to the highly priced AD.
They are probably secretly hoping that the new low cost version will become a huge part of their business.
 

Offline DerekG

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #348 on: August 20, 2014, 01:20:43 pm »
They are probably secretly hoping that the new low cost version will become a huge part of their business.

Then the target market they are looking to "pilfer" will be Eagle (Element 14/Farnell Components) & Design Spark (RS Components).

DipTrace probably does not have a very large user base.

Which other low cost PCB design programs have a large user base?

It might also be a way of mitigating the growing KiCAD user base too.

Of course Altium will need to get this into the Tafe Colleges & Universities (as Protel did in their early days) to ensure they get a good foothold with the engineers of tomorrow.
I also sat between Elvis & Bigfoot on the UFO.
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: EEVblog #527 - Altium Entry Level PCB Tool Rant
« Reply #349 on: August 20, 2014, 01:31:05 pm »
Of course Altium will need to get this into the Tafe Colleges & Universities (as Protel did in their early days) to ensure they get a good foothold with the engineers of tomorrow.
They do this already with Altium Designer:

http://www.altium.com/en/altium/press-center/press-releases/seven-universities-sign-altium-classroom-cubesats

I guess the universities get it very cheap or for free.
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