Author Topic: EEVblog #541 - Mailbag  (Read 25286 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 37740
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #541 - Mailbag
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2013, 12:50:35 pm »
Hope you liked the 3D post card; if you get to California you should check out the giant sequoia General Sherman southern

Been there, got the shirt  :-+

 

Offline Kjetil

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 64
  • Country: no
Re: EEVblog #541 - Mailbag
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2013, 05:52:29 pm »
That Teletype tape from Kjetil in Norway was pretty cool too, also the Hexbugs; I'll have to get a few of those for my niece & nephew who live in Cape Town!  :-+ ;)
I seriously love that machine ;-) It just reaks of vintage. Those bugs were awesome too, have to get some of those  :D
Scout leader and HAM radio operator
 

Offline Stonent

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3824
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #541 - Mailbag
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2013, 06:08:24 pm »
Hope you liked the 3D post card; if you get to California you should check out the giant sequoia General Sherman southern

Been there, got the shirt  :-+

Dave has shoes!

Lol

The larger the government, the smaller the citizen.
 

Offline rr100

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 339
Re: EEVblog #541 - Mailbag
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2013, 07:41:00 pm »
That was a nice mailbag video. The "beer" you mentioned in the 'Rum Zit laybor' (RaumZeitLabor) hackerspace postcard scene is not a beer. It's actually Club Mate. A sweet soft drink based on mate tea. It contains caffeine and the beverage drunken by hackers (and hipsters) in Germany, Europe and probably the rest of the world. Club Mate is very tasty. I don't know if it's also available in Australia.

Yep, I was like "but but but ..." when watching the video. Club Mate, no beer.
 

Offline owiecc

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 315
  • Country: dk
    • Google scholar profile
Re: EEVblog #541 - Mailbag
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2013, 08:03:04 pm »
I was almost hoping for a LHC teardown in this one when I saw the mention of it, but I guess if Dave was let loose on that beast, we'd probably never see him again!  :-/O :-DMM
Large Hadron Collider teardown would be nice :)
 

Offline Stonent

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3824
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #541 - Mailbag
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2013, 08:17:17 pm »
I was almost hoping for a LHC teardown in this one when I saw the mention of it, but I guess if Dave was let loose on that beast, we'd probably never see him again!  :-/O :-DMM
Large Hadron Collider teardown would be nice :)

I don't think Dave has an army of construction workers for that one.  >:D
The larger the government, the smaller the citizen.
 

Offline Slothie

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 66
Re: EEVblog #541 - Mailbag
« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2013, 10:08:42 pm »
That Teletype tape from Kjetil in Norway was pretty cool too, also the Hexbugs; I'll have to get a few of those for my niece & nephew who live in Cape Town!  :-+ ;)
I seriously love that machine ;-) It just reaks of vintage. Those bugs were awesome too, have to get some of those  :D


I wrote my first programs sitting at the keyboard of an ASR-33 Teletype. To edit a program, you had to put the tape in the reader, step through it till you got to where you needed to change something and type in what needed inserting and/or skip over what needed deleting.  For the really hard-core nerds you could get boxes of self-adhesive tape with all the holes punched out to join paper tape, allowing you to cut the tape with scissors & join in new bits of tape. If you were posh you could get an alignment guide, otherwise you did it by eye.

Kids of today &c &c....
 

Offline james42519

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 1
Re: EEVblog #541 - Mailbag
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2013, 05:48:00 am »
We may all have already seen the inside of a PS3 before (I've certainly opened mine..), but none of the random, crappy teardowns give any intelligent, experienced insight into the design. Open 'er up.

I was excited to see a teardown on the PS3 and was bummed when Dave didn't do it.

I think most folks who look at existing teardowns are looking at how to reflow a BGA GPU or something - those teardowns offer no insight into the actual design.

Considering the PS3 was hyped to such a level (remember Sony hyping how it was so powerful it could be exported to some countries because of the 'weapons grade' computing power, or some such)... I would love to see a practical engineer's view on it.

Hope you reconsider, Dave!

well they kinda have some of that here on stuff. http://www.ifixit.com/Device/PlayStation_3
 

Offline CHexclaim

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • Country: uy
Re: EEVblog #541 - Mailbag
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2013, 06:04:19 pm »
Hope you liked the 3D post card; if you get to California you should check out the giant sequoia General Sherman southern

Been there, got the shirt  :-+

Dave, what did you get the shrink ray?
 

Offline GiskardReventlov

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 598
  • Country: 00
  • How many pseudonyms do you have?
Re: EEVblog #541 - Mailbag
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2014, 05:32:26 pm »
New around here and didn't know what the mailbag vids were and this one sounded interesting with the PS3.  The infamous PS3 YLOD issue is a huge consumer electronics fail and it might be interesting for that reason but from a historic perspective it would be interesting because in a year or two there will probably be a chance to do a PS4 teardown.  Having a PS3 teardown to compare would show the evolution of the console design and reveal other interesting things about design choices, including suppliers, etc.  Maybe do an abbreviated teardown starting after you've disassembled it down to the main internal components.  I think most here are only interested in the specifics and your expertise in spotting the good, the bad and the ugly.
 

Offline suhayl_khan

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
  • Country: ca
Re: EEVblog #541 - Mailbag
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2014, 05:28:10 pm »
Receiving a printed letter via a Teletype Model 33 along with a paper tape copy is awesome!

I made the following video commemorating the 25th Anniversary of the World Wide Web using an ASR-33 Teletype to access the first webpage:



Hope you all enjoy!



« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 05:45:45 pm by suhayl_khan »
 

Offline chickenHeadKnob

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1055
  • Country: ca
Re: EEVblog #541 - Mailbag
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2014, 01:51:05 am »
Hello Suhayl and Welcome to the forum,

Yes I did in enjoy your video, well done. Thanks for making me feel like a fossil asshol.. young-guy!

To age my self, I was a teenager in the 70's who did the bill gates thing; I would travel 45 Km(*1) one way to one of the local universities just to sneak into the various computer labs and steal mainframe time. So I used the venerable IBM 029 keypunch and ASR33 and witnessed the phasing out of the same. Got my first modem an Andersen-jacobsen 300 baud acoustic and a dumb CRT terminal (Volker-Graig,from  Waterloo) in 1979 so I could access the Univ. computers from home. I hope the young peeps, generation Y or millenials, or what ever you call your selves, seeing this video understand the conflation of eras. In 1992 no lab I know off still had ASR33's and I found that juxtipostion somewhat odd. Still liked your video though, you should make more.

(*1) note: In the dead of winter in Winnipeg, so yeah, worse than the obligatory uphill in the blizzard both ways!
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 02:35:43 am by chickenHeadKnob »
 

Offline suhayl_khan

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
  • Country: ca
Re: EEVblog #541 - Mailbag
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2014, 02:23:40 pm »
Thanks for the welcome and glad to hear you enjoyed the video!

Was the ASR33 that you used directly connected to a mainframe or did you need to dial into a system located remotely via the teletype and a modem?

Ouch, those Winnipeg winters must be rough!


I hope the young peeps, generation Y or millenials, or what ever you call your selves, seeing this video understand the conflation of eras. In 1992 no lab I know off still had ASR33's and I found that juxtipostion somewhat odd.
Yes the ASR33 does pre-date the web by quite some time. I explain why I used the ASR-33 teletype here: http://first-website.web.cern.ch/blog/accessing-line-mode-browser-1960s-tech
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 02:34:58 pm by suhayl_khan »
 

Offline chickenHeadKnob

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1055
  • Country: ca
Re: EEVblog #541 - Mailbag
« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2014, 03:01:23 am »
Thanks for the welcome and glad to hear you enjoyed the video!

Was the ASR33 that you used directly connected to a mainframe or did you need to dial into a system located remotely via the teletype and a modem?

Yes the ASR33 does pre-date the web by quite some time. I explain why I used the ASR-33 teletype here: http://first-website.web.cern.ch/blog/accessing-line-mode-browser-1960s-tech


This is the part I should have expanded on: I never used a ASR 33!  Oh sure I had seen them around various places, I know I played with the keyboard of one to check the keyswitch action but all of the uni labs had other equipment by at least the mid seventies when I started my raids. The unversity of winnipeg rented cpu time from the univ. of Manitoba so you would always be ultimately using the same computer(s) no matter which campus you went to. There were two ways to get hard copy from a program: batch operation you punched a program onto cards and then walked to a card reader either self-serv or manned by an operator. Your deck would be added to cards already in the hopper with a colored blank separator card or colored IBM JCL (job control language) to facilitate seperation later. The JCL designated what resource-limits your program would receive. The card reader would transmit on a dedicated line to an IBM sub-system called remote job entry and it would run with the output coming back to a line printer which would bang out a line of print with a row of solenoids on 132 column fan-fold paper. You would get your printed output, look at errors you made and throw your paper in a recycling box. It was very wasteful and inefficient, but carefull and disciplined programmers like myself who learned how to desk check their code could minimize the number of debugging runs.

The other way was to use the various types of terminals. By far the most common print terminal were DEC LA36 DECwriters which used a dot matrix print head and accepted the same 132 column fan-fold paper mention above. Google images for the DECwriter. They didn't actually buy paper for these printers, you used the back side of discarded remnants from the line printer recycling box. I won't link the one youbube video of a DECwriter because it has  such poor quality  audio and video compared to yours. That video doesn't capture the one quirk I remember most; when typing in program the print head would local echo what you are typing and be in the way. So if there was a pause in your typing the head would back off 6 spaces or there abouts exposing the print and just sit there and "quiver" for a second. You could find this endearing or slightly annoying. I never really warmed up to the DECwriters as they were functional but the dot matrix output was not beautiful. If you really want the cadilac print terminal of that time get an IBM selectric. They have a tactile quality to them compared to the others you need to experience hands on.  There were other hard copy terminals besides, I can remember 2 daisy wheel printers, but DECwriters predominated. Towards the end of the seventies CRT terminals replaced almost everything.

As to modems the small lab in the Univ. Wpg had them, even an acoustic coupled one which was retired around 1977, but none came in such a fancy wooden box like the one you have. So yes you would dial in from there, or later I dialed in from home hogging the telephone line for hours. The thing about the univ. of wpg which always brought me back was that I was allowed to do as I pleased unmolested, and most importantly, the guy running the place (P.R.King) put up APL account login in credentials on the wall at every terminal ! ;D. Add to that people would leave their discarded session transcripts lying around and I had struck an auto-didact's gold mine. I taught myself APL in about 6 months with off and on experimentation and the IBM APL progammers reference card from the university book store and became a very competent APLer. That was a deeply formative and influential learning place for me.

enough boring geezer bla bla, I got shit to do today.

 

Offline richfiles

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 156
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #541 - Mailbag
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2014, 12:37:51 am »
So, it would seem Google has been ghost commenting a number of my posts, including some posts to the EEVblog...
I'm removing the youtube video links from the YT post and see if that fixes it. You'll just have to search for the videos yourselves by their titles...
Or come here to the forum!  ;D

I don't even know if ANY of my Youtube comments are posting.
Google/Youtube, getting tired of your shenanigans!  :bullshit:

There is a particular video game made for the Playstation 3 (and an updated sequel that'll be available for the Playstation 4 eventually) called "Little Big Planet". The game's create mode really sets it apart from most video games. ever since LBP 2, they added digital logic objects to the create mode. I have seen all manner of devices created in the game, including numerous calculators and even a rudimentary 8 bit computer with a hex keypad and display that executes machine language instructions!

LBP2: Da Vinci CPU v2 - Brief Explaination and Demo


It's OBVIOUSLY no Spice, but it IS cool that it teaches people the basics of digital logic in the disguise of a video game! I'm HOPING that LBP 3 (for PS4 later this year) adds "truer" flip-flops, memory "chips", and buses. Their current implementation of flip-flops is not very true to what's commonly available, though you can make them from scratch from regular logic, of course. I made a 256 bit ROM chip in the game (8 bit x 32, 5 bit addressed), to use for general purpose program storage in game. Also made a lovely "smart" hexadecimal LED dot matrix display with 4 bit latching inputs... basically a clone of the old TIL311 with a slightly prettier, slightly higher resolution dot pattern. Also made a nixie tube in the game that clones the general look okay... I'd like to redo it sometime, make the numeral filaments thinner.

I'm kinda waiting on the PS4 version myself, as I'm hoping they include some of the improvements I and others in the forums have suggested. They seem to have a good back and forth in their forums. The whole logic circuitry concepts were implemented in LBP 2, because they saw people use the pistons and the magnetic tags and sensors that were construction items in the first game to create digital logic. You put two pistons in line with one another, with a magnetic tag on the end, and a sensor at the end of the assembly, and you had an AND gate. Both pistons HAD to be extended for the tag to reach the sensor. A pair of Pistons side by side, with a tag sensor between operated as an OR gate. I don't recall the piston, tag, and sensor configuration for an XOR gate, but it also existed. All outputs of the tag sensors could be inverted as a setting, thus you had AND, NAND, OR, NOR, XOR, XNOR, and you could have a NOT by having a piston, tag and sensor by itself, with the output inverted.

People made basic calculators in the original game, using these virtual electromechanical arrangements!

LittleBigPlanet : Little Big Computer


Media Molecule saw what people were doing by creating logic, so they just dumped digital logic into the next game int he form of "microchips" You placed a microchip into your created level, and then opened it. It provides a resizable working area to drop logic gates and other functional elements on, and then you wire them up. You can next multiple microchips within microchips, so it's real easy to create, lets say an SR Flip-Flop, a JK lip-Flop, a D Flip-Flop, a Half Adder, a Full Adder, etc... You created a common element and then reused it as needed inside other elements. You can even give away your created objects, chips included, as prizes for meeting certain goals in your created level, or simply just give them away.

As I said before, I and other forum users suggested many improvements that would make creation even easier. I suggested adding "memory" chips, because it would alleviate a good portion of circuit simulation in creating memory from individual elements of OR networks to simulate diode ROMS, or flip-flops to simulate RAM, by letting the system turn it into simple value tables, letting the simulation free resources for other creator content. Another area where performance could be gained in create mode, was the wire auto routing. The game autoroutes wires on the fly, but on large designs this can become a mess. I simply suggested the addition of busses with user dropped guide points. This would clean up the rats nest of wires, and alleviate some of the performance lost on rampant auto routing. My final suggestion was to simply add TRUE flip-flops, so we can stop relying on making them from scratch, and to teach people REAL logic device behavior!

Basically, it was a fun way to introduce people to digital logic, via video game!

I also learned that some of the less standard components have been being played with by some people to create "analog" circuits! There is one part that can be used in a fashion similar to that of an op amp. This guy is doing some amazing things with simulated analog parts! it also goes to show just how versatile the game's creation mode is! He's doing what amounts to an analog computer to add and subtract values. Sadly, the tools are less like real analog parts here,and it's full of bodges, but the creativity in this guy's work just oozes off the screen!

LBP2 - Analog Memory Cells & Other Useful Electronics?


If you ever manage to snag a PS3, try to find a copy of Little Big Planet 2, just so you can see what a few of the creative minds out there have done with it's virtual electronic components!
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf