Author Topic: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station  (Read 106926 times)

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Offline Rory

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #50 on: November 01, 2013, 10:54:41 pm »
Dave, I'm wondering if an aluminum or glass fiber screen disc flat against the first filter would make it last longer. I saw you peel away a layer of filter material when you cleaned it, certainly a screen would stop the solder from sticking to the filter material.
 

Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #51 on: November 01, 2013, 10:56:11 pm »
Dave, I'm wondering if an aluminum or glass fiber screen disc flat against the first filter would make it last longer. I saw you peel away a layer of filter material when you cleaned it, certainly a screen would stop the solder from sticking to the filter material.

Put a small bit of steel wool in the inside/end of the spring ;)

It will keep the filter cleaner, and make it easier to remove the cold solder from the spring, as it won't get stuck in the end.
 

Offline Rory

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #52 on: November 01, 2013, 11:20:17 pm »
Dave, I'm wondering if an aluminum or glass fiber screen disc flat against the first filter would make it last longer. I saw you peel away a layer of filter material when you cleaned it, certainly a screen would stop the solder from sticking to the filter material.

Put a small bit of steel wool in the inside/end of the spring ;)

It will keep the filter cleaner, and make it easier to remove the cold solder from the spring, as it won't get stuck in the end.

In our humid environment, steel wool decomposes rapidly and it's a real pain to deal with after it's been sitting idle a while. Maybe a piece of pink fiberglass batting would work as well? The object is to have readily available expendables instead of something you would have to order and wait for delivery.
 

Offline AmmoJammo

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #53 on: November 01, 2013, 11:36:29 pm »
Then use stainless steel wool ;)
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #54 on: November 01, 2013, 11:36:39 pm »
Dave,

I considered the unit that you have purchased but reports of poor quality gun quality put me off.

I bought a Hakko clone desoldering gun from Circuit Specialists CSI 474A). It performs very well and the gun feels solidly made. The solder tube is held securely in place with no air leaks. I mention this because I also managed to buy a bag of 20 (yes 20) complete new guns that came from the Duratool model (same gun as yours) sold by Farnell. The whole bag cost me GBP10  ;D

I intended to use the guns as spare parts for my 474A and also to make my own desoldering gun kits. The Duratool gun is very similar to the CSI unit but the quality of the CSI guns case is far higher with a better finish and fit of all parts. The plastic used for the case is a thermoset type with resistance to melting, much like high temperature glass reinforced plastic.

After I dismantled the Duratool guns I discovered a serious design flaw in them. The spring loaded mechanism that holds the solder collection tube in place is terrible and prone to failure. You can easily dismantle your gun without risk to it. Take a look at how the little spring release 'button' works. The moulding inside the gun case is inadequate and eventually fails completely. This is why The spare guns were scrapped by Farnell. It would be a good idea to check yours to see if it has been rectified. The small release button 'side wings' also snap off with use, preventing correct operation. From your video your gun appeared to have the same poor release 'action' as my 20 guns and you will find the release button very awkward to use. As this is a regular maintenance requirement, the release mechanism should be nice and easy with a smooth action. My Circuit Specialists unit has such a gun.

Like many cheap tools, they do work, but they can have very annoying issues...the gun on your unit is such an example. For the sake of some more careful design the gun could have been so much better.

My Circuit Specialists unit has a large and powerful pump and has served me well for around 2 years now. Web page and manual download is here:

http://www.circuitspecialists.com/csi474a.html

I have looked inside and it is well made. It looks to be from the Aoyue factory.

Excellent support from Circuit Specialists as well. Not bad for $94.50 !

Circuit Specialists Europe page is here:

http://www.circuitspecialists.eu/esd-safe-compact-desoldering-station-csi-474a

It costs GBP90 for us in the UK .... but I still think it value for money.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 01:21:55 pm by Aurora »
 

Offline open loop

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #55 on: November 01, 2013, 11:56:20 pm »
I agree it looked like it was doing a great job... We  got a JBC de-soldering station a while ago at work and it is very nice. But really expensive.

http://www.jbctools.com/dis-premium-electrical-desoldering-station-product-93-category-2-menu-2.html

I think that how much you spend on a piece of kit is largely based on how often you use it, I use a very nice Logitech mouse at work as it is worth it. Same goes for a soldering Iron, you are going to be using it every day. I also think on what is really needed to get the required job done. I don't have a problem spending good money on hand toolset, it's amazing how many things I have worked on have been damaged because someone in the past did not think to spend the money on a decent screwdriver
May get one of these cheap de soldering stations to fix the batch of zx spectrum boards that I have, as I think it will be ok and it will also come in handy for future jobs.
 

Offline John Coloccia

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #56 on: November 02, 2013, 02:10:03 am »
Very timely post, Aurora.  Glad to hear that the CSI gun is a little higher quality than the Duratool.  I don't really much care about digital control for desoldering, but I do care about a hand piece that won't fall apart.  I've been looking for a cheap desoldering station, so this thread is perfectly timed.

I think I'll order one of these.

 

Offline orin

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #57 on: November 02, 2013, 03:16:02 am »
Just a couple of comments from my interpretation of Ted Smith's book, "Quality Hand Soldering and Circuit Board Repair". 

He suggests mounting the board vertically so you don't put excess pressure on the board and for through hole plated boards, so you can see if the solder has melted on the other side before applying the vacuum (yes, I know you often can't see the other side of the joint anyway).

He also says you should keep the vacuum on until after you remove the tool from the lead to allow (all of) the solder to reach the collection chamber.   You don't want it falling back, solidifying and clogging things up is my interpretation, but it would be less of a problem with the board vertical and gun horizontal.  Even so, giving it an extra half second or so isn't going to do any harm.

He prefers pencil type tools rather then the gun type - says they give better control.  I wish I could afford such a tool.  I have a Hakko 808 (about $180 US at the local Frys) which is heavy and I'd have to agree with that.  The pad survival rate desoldering components on my Fluke 731B was low.  (I suspect I could improve things by adding flux and new solder first.  Also, contamination from leaking NiCads may have weakened the bond between the pads and the board.  I got good practice putting in eyelets and repairing pads on this one.)

Orin.
 

Offline SgtRock

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #58 on: November 02, 2013, 03:29:57 am »
Greetings EEVBees:

--One advantage the Hakko 470 has over the Rhino ZD985 (Are there marsupial Rhinos?), is that it has a Vacuum Indicator. When you apply vacuum, the little round blue window in the 802 Hand-piece shows more and more red as the vacuum is increasingly obstructed, reminding you to clean everything. This has saved me time on more that one occasion when I thought I just had a troublesome joint. Have a look at the Ceramic Paper Filter. It has no bits of solder on it, as the Spring Filter, stops all of the solder. And even though it looks obstructed by the oxidized flux and dirt, the vacuum indicator (and performance) indicates no need to perform any cleaning yet. In this case, if a Hakko 470 Spring Filter, if it will fit would probably do a better job.

--Some of you have expressed interest in whether or not the pipe and/or components are interchangeable. I do not have a 985 to compare to, so I have posted below pictures of the components with dimensions and a picture from the parts list. If someone with a 985 would like to compare and let us know, that would be nice. If it turns out that the Ceramic Paper Filter will, or can be made to fit, and/or that the Spring Filter will fit, I would be glad to send Dave a few of each.

--In the case of plastic parts that might break off inside the Hand Piece, I would recommend seeing if they can be reinforced with epoxy. I often repair broken plastic parts by gluing them back together with a high quality Super Glue, and then reinforcing them with JB Weld. This has worked well for tubular screw hole projections, that have broken off, in TVs and Laptops. Never through those little pieces of plastic away in haste.

"In the first place, God made idiots. That was for practice. Then he made school boards."
Mark Twain (Samuel Langhorne Clemens ) 1835 - 1910

Best Regards
Clear Ether
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #59 on: November 02, 2013, 01:36:33 pm »
As an additional comment on the CSI offering....

It has an analogue temperature setting control and this works fine. I see little need for a super accurate (?) digital display when neither my unit nor the Duratool type even gave a temperature sensor at the tip !

The CSI gun is a VERY close copy/clone of the unit shown in SGTROCK's post. It has the same construction and the useful vacuum performance display to indicate when cleaning is needed.

I bought a complete spare gun from Circuit Specialists at a very reasonable price. Spares supply is excellent.

My ONLY complaint is that the desoldering tips do not seem to be designed to be tinned and older does not stick to it. Unusual but I have not found it to be a major issue.
 

Offline Excavatoree

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #60 on: November 02, 2013, 01:50:02 pm »
Thanks to SgtRock for the dimensioned pictures.

I thought I'd post a couple of inside photos.  I set my camera at the lowest resolution and most jpeg compression, but the files are still large.

This is the pump of the Hakko 472D.  It's difficult to see, but the pump assy chassis is mounted on rubber isolator mounts.

I've got more, but  I won't take up any more of Dave's drive space.  I need to did out my older camera for forum photos - it is lower resolution and will write smaller files.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 02:53:35 pm by Excavatoree »
 

Offline Excavatoree

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #61 on: November 02, 2013, 01:51:36 pm »
This is the gun holder for the Hakko 472D with 817 desoldering gun. 

It can mount on either side.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2013, 12:27:21 am by Excavatoree »
 

Offline atw60444

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #62 on: November 02, 2013, 01:55:39 pm »
Thanks for the review Dave. After seeing it I went onto eBay and ordered a new reel of Servisol solder wick  :-DD
 

Offline SgtRock

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #63 on: November 02, 2013, 02:24:27 pm »
Dear Excavatoree:

--That is one beautiful piece of equipment. I notice that the Hand Piece Holder can be placed on either side. With regard to your picture size issue, I would recommend you try Irfan (see link below). It is a great program, and I use it as my default image program. You can re-size, re-sample crop, combine, change bmp to jpg etc. and almost anything you can think of, including capture the screen. I even got it to play a slide show of 5000 images at 20 images per second, unbelievable. The Panda thumbnail image program allows you to view thumbnails of images in files of what ever size you want, and moving images from file to file makes the Windows Image Handler look positively stupid. Included below is combined panoramic image, made from screen captures, which shows some of the thing you can do.

--P.S. Be sure to decline the Spam software that CNET will offer you when downloading Irfan.

http://www.irfanview.com/

"A thing of beauty is a joy for ever:
Its loveliness increases"
John Keats 1795 -1821

Best Regards
Clear Ether
 

Offline Molybdo42

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #64 on: November 02, 2013, 03:43:38 pm »
I have the Duratool version. It works great ! It has a metallic case and the iron tip is grounded.
 
@ SgtRock I measured the dimensions of the different parts, they almost have the same dimensions but I don't think that the plastic tube and spring filter would fit. Also my soldering gun has more pieces.

I have taken some pictures of the soldering tip, would be interesting to see if Hakko ones fit on that gun.

Up until now, the only inconvenient I can point out would be the oxidation of the metallic parts surrounding the heating element, because they are made of steel instead of stainless steel. I don't know if Hakko ones are better. Best thing would be to see whether or not the Hakko gun could fit the Duratool. I will try to identify the signals going to my soldering iron. For the moment I can only tell that apparently it works with 24V and the soldering gun has 6 wires, the earth seems separate and provided by the cable shielding.
 

Offline FredF

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #65 on: November 02, 2013, 05:58:21 pm »
Hi all,

First thank you Dave for your blog !!

We have Pace MBT 301 & MBT 350 at work and the desoldering pen doesn't work properly!! (iron is better but it is not Weller...)
Metals for nozzle & iron are cheap (oxidation issue). "start and stop" is an option for iron only.
The nozzle won't fit exactly in the heater. So the temperature is not the same on two extremity of the nozzle.
I think they did this because they are cool tin before it is stored. If not, in case of intensive use they could burn the user.
But now, as the nozzle is not at the same temperature everywhere, the nozzle becomes clogged very often and doesn't work properly!

For Weller WMD-1D & WD3000, I have many issue to clean the nozzle because the desoldering iron is curved.

For me the best is a gun (e.g. Hakko). Because the tin storage is not in your hand (don't burn your hand) and not curved (easy to clean).

For iron, the best choice is inductive iron with "start & stop" option. (I buy my Weller WD1M on ebay for 250€)

1 question : Do you know a desoldering gun with inductive heater and "start and stop" option !? (I have a dream...)

Best regards,
Fred
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #66 on: November 02, 2013, 08:13:00 pm »
For those wishing to see inside the Duratool and CSI guns, I have taken some pictures for you.

I will post the CSI here and the Duratool in a separate post, along with my comments.
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #67 on: November 02, 2013, 08:15:58 pm »
Now for the Duratool

My comments on the guns:

CSI

1. Solid feel with good quality plastics
2. Easy operation collection tube ejector
3. Vacuum indicator (simple but effective, using a small bellows)
4. Claimed, high performance heating element
5. Tips incorporate the whole heated metal suction tube for less blockages, easy change.
6. Closed loop temperature control using thermocouple in heater.
7. Brass screw thread inserts for all load bearing screws.

Duratool

1. Light and flimsy plastics
2. Difficult operation of the collection tube ejector
3. No vacuum indicator so the first you know of a blockage is poor performance.
4. Tips fit to the end of the combine heating element and suction tube. If blocked, heater is U/S.
5. defective design of collection tube release plastics.
6. Appears to have the capability for closed loop temperature control using thermocouple in heater.
7. Self tapping screws used throughout.


As you can see, I am not a fan of the Duratool gun.

The CSI has a tip that incorporates the suction tube and this is an advantage when it comes to blockages that are difficult to shift. Another tip can be quickly fitted. The blocked suction tube may be worked on outside of the gun. The Duratool would be out of service until the blockage is shifted or a new heater fitted.

The collection tube ejector mechanism is very poor indeed. The plastic parts that hold the release trigger in place are not msn enough for the job, resulting in twisting and stress on the thin trigger 'wings'. The top 'wing' fails and the trigger twists further causing a serious jam. The plastic trigger retainer is too thin at the rear and fails over time. This causes complete failure of the trigger release mechanism. In short....its a crap design when used wit the poor quality plastic of the  gun casing.

I have suffered no such issues with the CSI gun.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 10:11:55 pm by Aurora »
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #68 on: November 02, 2013, 08:57:08 pm »
Now if you need the best....go for a Soldermaster 3 !

Its as likely to electrocute you as desolder a component   :scared:

240V mains electricity presented to the user via uncovered connector blocks  :o

Joking aside, the Soldermaster was an effective desoldering tool. It uses a quality Anderson pump and the user controls the vacuum on/off by covering and uncovering a vacuum port positioned behind the collection tube ! The vacuum pump runs whenever the hand-piece is removed from its rest.

The unit still works well. I bought it as a curio as much as anything. I will be moving it on to a new home soon as it will never see use with me.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 09:01:05 pm by Aurora »
 

Offline LaurenceW

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #69 on: November 02, 2013, 11:17:31 pm »
For those playing along at home, I can now see that the CSI hardware is EXACTLY the same as the BlackJack (from Solderwerks).  The following comments are related to the CSI/Blackjack desolder tool:

The filter release mechanism has also jammed on me, refusing to move down far enough to release the filter. Fix - file a bit of the top of the red plastic moulding.

I find the vacuum indicator is USELESS - you can hear when the nozzle is blocked anyway - it stops hissing.

Unless the gun is run HOT, the central metal tube down the centre of the heating element (part of the tool tip in the CSI/Blackjack station) tends to block too easily and is a pain to clear.

Still, it's just made (reasonably) light work of removing six wire-ended 11 wire nixie tubes from a PCB, with no damage to the latter - phew.

The Blackjack soldering/desoldering stations can still be had for around £220 on eBay. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BK-6000-desoldering-rework-soldering-station-with-hot-air-gun-and-irons-UK-Co-/321180963337?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item4ac7e09209   I think if I was buying again, I'd push the boat out a little further (i.e. go upmarket).
If you don't measure, you don't get.
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #70 on: November 02, 2013, 11:22:16 pm »
Faulty Unit ?

No such problems with my gun or its spare and I have used it for two years.
 

Offline DL8RI

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #71 on: November 03, 2013, 11:28:50 am »
Hi,

For Weller WMD-1D & WD3000, I have many issue to clean the nozzle because the desoldering iron is curved.

For me the best is a gun (e.g. Hakko). Because the tin storage is not in your hand (don't burn your hand) and not curved (easy to clean).
I didn't really like the Hakko-Desoldering-Iron. It felt not very ergonomic without the grip and with the "Gun"-look it was not very precise to use.
BTW: Changing the Tip is REALLY stupid! You have a little plastic-tool but the whole thing is so hard to remove sometimes I threw the hot Tip on the bench because I had to use so much force. For proper cleaning you also have to remove the Tip and turn it by 90 degrees. And the solder gets always stuck in the latter part (there's a little pipe behind the heater), so you have to do this often.

Another issue I hated: Combined heater and Tip. Maybe it's faster, but ~40€ for a Tip (and you  have to have a collection for proper desoldering). I would have to invest ~150€ just for Tips, thanks but no!

As for the Weller, there are not-curved Irons too (DSXV80), but i like the curved one. It is less precise in use than the straight one, but quite comfortable. And the cleaning is not such a big issue, you have to put this needle once in a while into the nozzle, but that's just a matter of 3-4 seconds. And that issue I had with every Desoldering Iron including the Hakko.

The PACE (I think it was a MBT-350) ones I did like, but they have (at least the one I used) a fatal design flaw. There were "flying" wires going into the heating-element that broke after a few years due to heat and mechanical stress -> buy a new heater. The SMD-Tweezers were also troublesome, the rubber on the grip was not really heat-resistant. But the soldering-results were great. :)

From all stations I used, the Weller WMD 3 is (for me) the best. Only Issue are the small tips. For big desoldering-work (BNC-Plugs soldered at the case) it's a bit annoying (I have only a 50W-Unit, not the DSX80 :( ). In that case I use a WSP80 to give a little extra heat, and that iron has power :) There is one "extra-thick" Nozzle for higher thermal capacity, I will try that one.

From first impression (but never used it) the new ERSA-Units look pretty cool (i-Con Vario).
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 11:58:28 am by DL8RI »
 

Offline ErikTheNorwegian

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #72 on: November 03, 2013, 07:46:18 pm »
Dave,

I considered the unit that you have purchased but reports of poor quality gun quality put me off.

I bought a Hakko clone desoldering gun from Circuit Specialists CSI 474A). It performs very well and the gun feels solidly made. The solder tube is held securely in place with no air leaks. I mention this because I also managed to buy a bag of 20 (yes 20) complete new guns that came from the Duratool model (same gun as yours) sold by Farnell. The whole bag cost me GBP10  ;D

I intended to use the guns as spare parts for my 474A and also to make my own desoldering gun kits. The Duratool gun is very similar to the CSI unit but the quality of the CSI guns case is far higher with a better finish and fit of all parts. The plastic used for the case is a thermoset type with resistance to melting, much like high temperature glass reinforced plastic.

After I dismantled the Duratool guns I discovered a serious design flaw in them. The spring loaded mechanism that holds the solder collection tube in place is terrible and prone to failure. You can easily dismantle your gun without risk to it. Take a look at how the little spring release 'button' works. The moulding inside the gun case is inadequate and eventually fails completely. This is why The spare guns were scrapped by Farnell. It would be a good idea to check yours to see if it has been rectified. The small release button 'side wings' also snap off with use, preventing correct operation. From your video your gun appeared to have the same poor release 'action' as my 20 guns and you will find the release button very awkward to use. As this is a regular maintenance requirement, the release mechanism should be nice and easy with a smooth action. My Circuit Specialists unit has such a gun.

Like many cheap tools, they do work, but they can have very annoying issues...the gun on your unit is such an example. For the sake of some more careful design the gun could have been so much better.

My Circuit Specialists unit has a large and powerful pump and has served me well for around 2 years now. Web page and manual download is here:

http://www.circuitspecialists.com/csi474a.html

I have looked inside and it is well made. It looks to be from the Aoyue factory.

Excellent support from Circuit Specialists as well. Not bad for $94.50 !

Circuit Specialists Europe page is here:

http://www.circuitspecialists.eu/esd-safe-compact-desoldering-station-csi-474a

It costs GBP90 for us in the UK .... but I still think it value for money.

I also use a station from them, BK6000, and their Products, price and support is very good!
They have spare parts and deliver fast and to the right price.

http://www.circuitspecialists.eu/soldering?cat=49
 

Offline ErikTheNorwegian

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #73 on: November 03, 2013, 08:16:18 pm »
For those playing along at home, I can now see that the CSI hardware is EXACTLY the same as the BlackJack (from Solderwerks).  The following comments are related to the CSI/Blackjack desolder tool:

The filter release mechanism has also jammed on me, refusing to move down far enough to release the filter. Fix - file a bit of the top of the red plastic moulding.

I find the vacuum indicator is USELESS - you can hear when the nozzle is blocked anyway - it stops hissing.

Unless the gun is run HOT, the central metal tube down the centre of the heating element (part of the tool tip in the CSI/Blackjack station) tends to block too easily and is a pain to clear.

Still, it's just made (reasonably) light work of removing six wire-ended 11 wire nixie tubes from a PCB, with no damage to the latter - phew.

The Blackjack soldering/desoldering stations can still be had for around £220 on eBay. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BK-6000-desoldering-rework-soldering-station-with-hot-air-gun-and-irons-UK-Co-/321180963337?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item4ac7e09209   I think if I was buying again, I'd push the boat out a little further (i.e. go upmarket).

I have only good experience with the gun.. i do think there must be somthing wrong with your unit.. i would contact the dealer and presentded them the problem. Do you use the silicone grease and the tip cleaner som you can applay some grease on the cleaner and "prime" the tip  after cleaning , that way solder wount stick to the tip. Works very good for me.. :-)

Try the tips they got on their website, best practice using the desoldering..   :)
http://www.circuitspecialists.eu/blog/?p=36

« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 09:07:46 pm by ErikTheNorwegian »
 

Online M. András

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Re: EEVblog #542 - ZD985 Desoldering Station
« Reply #74 on: November 03, 2013, 09:19:00 pm »
just a bit related, but anybody have a source for those vacuum pumps? which used in these stations?
 


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