Author Topic: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag  (Read 30621 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Offline Kjetil

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2013, 07:43:20 pm »
I think we just threw out heaps of those old bubble-displays while tidying, didn't know they'd be of any interest to anyone  ::)
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Offline deth502

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2013, 07:49:54 pm »
i was surprised to see the apollo board with smd ic's. i didnt think they were in use until the 80's.

so, when did the use of smd components begin?
 

Offline MatCat

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2013, 07:50:39 pm »
His noodley appendage!  I was instantly reminded of Douglas Adams and The Great White Handkerchief.
 

Offline daqq

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2013, 08:08:22 pm »
Neet mailbag!

Dave: The nixie tube could have been made in the 80's - they were made still in those times.

Quote
i was surprised to see the apollo board with smd ic's. i didnt think they were in use until the 80's.
so, when did the use of smd components begin?
For consumer stuff you are generally correct, but in mil, space and special tech it began much sooner. The Saturn board is atleast a decade or two ahead in certain terms of the average tech of that era IMHO.

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Offline VK5RC

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2013, 08:34:37 pm »
Long live the Nixie! Almost as good as a 7 segment LED display.
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Offline Bored@Work

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2013, 08:38:05 pm »
Neet mailbag!

Dave: The nixie tube could have been made in the 80's - they were made still in those times.

Quote
i was surprised to see the apollo board with smd ic's. i didnt think they were in use until the 80's.
so, when did the use of smd components begin?
For consumer stuff you are generally correct, but in mil, space and special tech it began much sooner. The Saturn board is atleast a decade or two ahead in certain terms of the average tech of that era IMHO.

And being a decade or two ahead is typical for military stuff. Killing people seems to be a high motivation factor in tech development.
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Offline TheEPROM9

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2013, 08:42:13 pm »
David you just have to make a Nixie clock or something with those Nixie tubes =-)
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Offline daqq

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2013, 08:43:27 pm »
Quote
And being a decade or two ahead is typical for military stuff. Killing people seems to be a high motivation factor in tech development.
Having an effectively unlimited budget and extra motivation also helps ;)
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Offline notsob

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2013, 09:27:49 pm »
For a run down memory lane, have a look at this Burroughs promo for logic modules.



look at the logic modules around 1.36 minutes - a valve based logic one then a plug in transistor logic module then ICs. And the "huge" disk storage.
 

Offline Switching Power

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2013, 09:50:23 pm »
Numitrons are different from Nixie tubes.

Nixie tubes use a gas discharge like neon bulbs but Numitrons use tiny incandescent filaments like ordinary light bulbs.
So don't put high voltage on Numitrons because they will be destroyed.
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2013, 10:15:37 pm »
XMOS StartKit XCORE
I also got one and Im a little baffled. All they have on the website is PR wank and 'look at us we are as cool as arduino' videos :(
They dont even tell you MHz or ram size of the thing :/

I think its this one
https://www.xmos.com/support/documentation?category=xcore&subcategory=xCORE-Analog%20(A)&product=16679
500MHz /8 logical cores, 64KB ram, some DSP instructions (they never mention what those actually are?), some proprietary SERDES you cant reuse?, some USB with undefined speed and no documentation on how to configure?, no mention of any DMA for IO?

Im lost. They have plenty PR BS brochures, but I cant find real documentation :(
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2013, 10:55:52 pm »
Dave - it may be worth trying to get one of the XMOS guys on the Amp Hour, as they have some interesting history back to the Inmos Transputer days .
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Offline madworm

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2013, 11:36:51 pm »
Hey Dave,

yes, the wire is too thin. But I have a suspicion that it isn't even copper. Did you notice the springy-ness of the leads? And the resistance is way too high as well.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2013, 11:44:56 pm »
Hey Dave,

yes, the wire is too thin. But I have a suspicion that it isn't even copper. Did you notice the springy-ness of the leads? And the resistance is way too high as well.
Might be fun to put 16A through it to see what happens....
or at least measure the resistance

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Offline ivan747

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2013, 12:12:36 am »
I think you should pass it on to Mike. He has access to weird and interesting stuff, so this fits his style and knowledge I think.
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Offline ciccio

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2013, 12:21:07 am »
Hey Dave,

yes, the wire is too thin. But I have a suspicion that it isn't even copper. Did you notice the springy-ness of the leads? And the resistance is way too high as well.
Might be fun to put 16A through it to see what happens....
or at least measure the resistance
I know what will happen.. My white workbench has a some carbon residue from a burning power cable.
It was supplied with a spare PC power supply,  labeled as a  3 x 0.75 mm2, 10 A,  but when loaded with a less than 1000 VA load it went into flames.
Further investigation revealed it was assembled with 0.30 (or thinner) mm2 wires.
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Offline BravoV

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2013, 12:29:59 am »
Well, at least its still copper, just wait until you have these kind of cable, aluminium or whatever metal cores in their disposal that are coated with copper "like" surface.  >:D



Offline Bored@Work

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2013, 12:31:53 am »
Im lost. They have plenty PR BS brochures, but I cant find real documentation :(

It is Transputers Reloaded all over the place. Just as with transputers there are a lot of very bold claims about xcores around. And there are a lot of people still around who don't trust anything remotely related to transputers or the people who had a hand in developing them.
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Offline gemby

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2013, 12:34:13 am »
I think we just threw out heaps of those old bubble-displays while tidying, didn't know they'd be of any interest to anyone  ::)

Huh, throwing away stuff like this is a sin imho, those obsolete stuff does not have real value, but to try it out, learn something, or just hack for fun, it is fantastic. If you do not need it, somebody would be glad to get it, or even pay for it, or at least shipping.
 

Online TiN

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2013, 02:43:24 am »
Those LED displays look like exactly soviet/russian ones back that time, i had a calculator with them :)



And nixie look very close to IN-12 (??-12).
I still have bunch of those, had a nixie clock project for one of customers :)
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Offline ratdude747

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2013, 03:43:11 am »
I have a bunch of 1976 HP 5082-7415 LED bubble displays... I actually used one of them on my Atmel AVR class and Intro to communications final project ...  I attached a picture of the display board I made to drive the display. My communications professor (also an EEVblog fan) liked it so much he actually requested two of my spare displays (which I was happy to supply). Ironically, I sourced the display from another professor, who gave me 3 orgainization stand drawers of things of vintage parts (analog and digital) and a 1963 Heathkit 1012 Scope + manual (works in good condition no less).

Those Nixie tubes are hard to find... high demand, low supply.

« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 10:26:58 pm by ratdude747 »
 

Offline Winston

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2013, 04:02:54 am »
While the LVDC was impressive for its day, the Apollo Guidance Computer (AGC) in the Command Module was even more integrated with flat-pack ICs:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer



Note that the AGC was operational in 1966, a mere eight years after this, the first IC:



The Apollo Program effort was absolutely gigantic, greatly advancing technologies in numerous areas simultaneously, something I could best appreciate after watching the official NASA progress reports from that time included on these great DVD sets:

The Mighty Saturns: Saturn V

http://www.spacecraftfilms.com/themightysaturnssaturnv.aspx

The Mighty Saturns: Saturn 1 & 1B

http://www.spacecraftfilms.com/themightysaturnssaturn1and1b.aspx

An example of those quarterly reports, a very early one. Click on the YouTube icon to watch the video on YouTube with channel links to 40 of them on the right.  I could watch them for hours (and did). The beauty of engineering...

« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 04:19:28 am by Winston »
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2013, 04:22:43 am »
I have a Motorola databook from 1972 with the flip chip datasheets in it, along with an old Nat Semi  databook from the same time with a whole lot of chip die shots for hybrid circuits in it. Scanned, but the PDF's are close to 30M each, and my web host will kill me if I link them public.

The TO92 LED's I remember from AM International copiers from the early 1980's ( the small cheap 300kg units that would easily do 40 million copies before you replaced them with another) used with a matching TO92 phototransistor used as paper path sensors, mechanism position sensors and pretty much any application where you would use a low operation force microswitch.

The plus indicator is actually a filament display, you run it off 5V direct from logic. Very nice and very reliable, though I really hated changing those on aircraft equipment because of the wiring loom needing to be cut to get it out then relaced to fit the board back. They were rated for a 100 000 hour operational lifetime, really only failing from vibration but if you have a line of 30 40 year old ones that lifetime is getting pretty close to monthly. they were available NOS from the stores, with 30cm PTFE24 AWG wire leads.

Copper price I can agree on, I get good money for old copper cable at the scrappie, even more ( like $5 per kilo) for bright copper. You can see why it gets stolen.

Drager sensor does Oxygen, CO, CO2, Methane and SO2 detection, and is there to warn if you are in danger. Sort of an electronic canary, just needs electricity instead of birdseed. The oxygen sensors are scary expensive, and have a lifetime of around 6 months after installing, even if not used. Shelf life of around 2 years as well. I used to use them in FMCG packaging, and the cost for them was really painful, even if calibration was very easy by just adjusting the meter to read 20.5% in fresh open air and then checking it was under 3% in a flooded N2 bag ( 3% was the best the nitrogen generator would give at low flow, if you ran at full it would be 5% of O2 in the N2 output, good enough to give a boost in product lifetime without needing preservatives, and a shed load cheaper than having a contract with Afrox or Air Liquide ( and the cost of the generator was the same as a 2 month period of gas delivery) only needing oil free dry compressed air and a regular diet of 0.2 micron filter packs used 2 in series along with an upstream 5 micron oil coalescing filter. waste gas was around 30% oxygen, was looking at a fish tank but just vented in via a silencer. The other sensors are likely either heated pellet or safety fine catalysing gas sensors, operating by heating up a bead in a fine double mesh housing and detecting either a temp rise or fall depending on the gas concentration.
 

Offline calexanian

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Re: EEVblog #561 - Mailbag
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2013, 04:41:33 am »
Numitrons are different from Nixie tubes.

Nixie tubes use a gas discharge like neon bulbs but Numitrons use tiny incandescent filaments like ordinary light bulbs.
So don't put high voltage on Numitrons because they will be destroyed.

Correct!
Charles Alexanian
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