Author Topic: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant  (Read 25764 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2014, 11:41:22 am »
I know - WHAT THE HECK!  You're sucking on a UBS connection, at least trickle charge the darn battery.

500mA is hardly trickle charging.
Works great for phones and tablets, so no excuse for similar or usually smaller batteries in cameras.
 

Offline george graves

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2014, 11:51:27 am »
Yea, so give my camera battery a 50ma charge.  Easy as pie?  All I know if that my camera is happy to stay on, while connect to USB, and not getting a charge.   Must be the same chip they are all using.  Must have not been a feature.  Or only a feature on higher end cameras.

Considering cell phones and tablets(new ones anyways)  are now happy with a 2 amp charge?  Don't you think a 500ma is a "sip" - maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it will stop at 2 amps.  What's the iphone 5 connector worth amp wise?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 11:55:26 am by george graves »
 

Offline Frost

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2014, 11:52:11 am »
Note that the mobile phone manufacturers that sell in the EU countries have decided on the micro USB-B standard for phone chargers.

But not by themselves, they were forced by the european commission.
In 2009 they reached a voluntary agreement with several manufacturers
but a few manufacturers, like Apple, ignore the commitment till this day,
so you have to buy an additional adapter to charge the iPhone
with a micro USB cable.

This year there will be a new attempt from the european parliament
to sign a new EU law, that will require all companies to ensure,
that all new mobile devices can be charged with the same standard
battery charger.
 

Offline nowlan

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2014, 11:58:22 am »
There usb charging ICs produced by lots of manufacturers. The mobile phone industry have pushed low power consumption. No reason charging should not be included in the device.

Unless the camera was a power hog, and needed to swap batteries out frequently, then put the effort in a cradle.

As for keeping track of all the cables, I have rats nest under the desk.
 

Offline Terabyte2007

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2014, 12:04:37 pm »
Dave, I love this rant! I deal with RS232 quite a bit in my job, we find that it is not standard from MFG to MFG as you would think. As we say in the field, RS stands for "Recommended Standard" meaning follow if you like but not required. And believe me it shows it's ugly head all the time!

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Online rsjsouza

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2014, 12:26:50 pm »
In my opinion what is worse than having a proprietary connector is to have a standard USB one that only accepts their own chargers as they need to communicate with the host to initiate the charging - I was left with dead batteries in a trip or two.

My wife's old Motorola Razr was like that: you couldn't charge it with a standard USB charger and not even if you plugged it into a PC without Motorola's device drivers (you needed to purchase them).

More recently my father gave me his Samsung Galaxy Tab 7 (original) that also has a similar "feature": the tablet has a proprietary connector that has a nice USB port on the other end. However, it can't charge with a plain dumb charger - it must talk to its minions inside the Samsung-approved charger.

My old HTC phone had a proprietary USB port that also accepted standard mini-USB cables. I guess micro-USB is too small for a trick like that.
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Offline electronics man

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2014, 01:51:01 pm »
I love a rant
follow me on twitter @get_your_byte
 

Offline Macbeth

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2014, 03:04:13 pm »
Dave, I love this rant! I deal with RS232 quite a bit in my job, we find that it is not standard from MFG to MFG as you would think. As we say in the field, RS stands for "Recommended Standard" meaning follow if you like but not required. And believe me it shows it's ugly head all the time!

To be fair, the RS232 standard is so ancient that to fully support needs DB-25 connectors and large +/-25 voltages that may have been used back in the days of teletypes, punch cards and paper tape. Things like DSR/DSR/RI are obsolete too. Most "RS232" interfaces require only RX/TX/GND, with CTS/RTS only needed for small buffer UARTs or perhaps serial networks.
 

Offline Prime73

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2014, 03:21:29 pm »
I think this is the best example of a proprietary Universal Serial Bus cable :)


This is Apple's USB extension cable - you can't even connect two of them together. Plug on one end doesn't physically fit into a jack on the other.
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2014, 03:25:57 pm »
This is Apple's USB extension cable - you can't even connect two of them together. Plug on one end doesn't physically fit into a jack on the other.

Pretty sure that's the point. Eliminates the "I connected 1042 extension cables together and my device doesn't work!!!11!" support calls.
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Offline hikariuk

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2014, 03:53:28 pm »
Dave, I love this rant! I deal with RS232 quite a bit in my job, we find that it is not standard from MFG to MFG as you would think. As we say in the field, RS stands for "Recommended Standard" meaning follow if you like but not required. And believe me it shows it's ugly head all the time!

I only found out recently it actually stood for Radio Sector (of the EIA).
I write software.  I'd far rather be doing something else.
 

Offline calzap

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2014, 03:59:39 pm »
Couldn't agree more with Dave.  And like other posters, I've encountered the same problem with cell phones, Nikon cameras and Samsung tablets.  I remember acquiring a very versatile Sony monitor in the late 1980's that could handle composite, RGB, S-video and respond to LANC commands.  Problem was to use all the features, a proprietary connector was required.  Had to buy it direct from Sony for US $25.

As long as they get away with it, it will continue because it generates income from selling adapters, cables, chargers, etc.  What can stop it? Government regs, safety rating agencies (but they aren't that concerned unless it really does affect safety) or  consumer rating organizations.  I've never seen one of the latter down-rate a device for having a proprietary connector.

Mike in California
 

Offline Rory

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2014, 04:24:45 pm »
So Dave, are you sending it back for a refund and finding another camera with the proper charging jack?
 

Offline Wytnucls

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2014, 04:55:42 pm »
The Sony PDA UX50 was also pretty frustrating. It had a mini USB connector, but could only be used for communication. It came with a lame docking station and a biggish mains connector.

« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 05:01:05 pm by Wytnucls »
 

Offline Rutger

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2014, 06:01:56 pm »
Had the same problem with Olympus XZ-1 and Panasonic LX7. 
The Olympus had in camera charging, but uses some proprietary connector called 'CB-USB6'. They supply the cable but is only 1 foot long and only work on the camera, so I returned it.
Then I got the Panasonic LX7, great camera, but no in camera charging and again they use this specific cable 'UC-E6'.  Also returned it.
Then I looked at the Olympus XZ-2 camera, with in camera charging, but is uses another specific cable the 'CB-USB8'. So I don't think I will be ordering it.

As far as some cameras not having in camera charging, could it have something to do with battery voltage?  I noticed the Olympus 4/3 cameras don't allow in camera charging, but most of these batteries are 7.2 V.
 

Offline rollatorwieltje

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2014, 08:59:13 pm »
I have a Nokia C1-01 somewhere that has a USB port and a tiny barrel connector next to it for charging. It won't charge from USB, it only charges from the barrel connector.
A special USB to mini barrel cable can be bought separately if you want to charge it with your PC, it contains a tiny boost converter to 5.7V  :palm:
 

Offline tom66

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2014, 12:58:42 am »
I recall having a camera which had a phono output for video and also USB.  Came with a phono to USB cable....It always confused me why they didn't use a mini USB port and supply an AV cable for video output; they had basically all the ingredients there just the wrong connector...
 

Offline JoannaK

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2014, 01:03:58 am »


As far as some cameras not having in camera charging, could it have something to do with battery voltage?  I noticed the Olympus 4/3 cameras don't allow in camera charging, but most of these batteries are 7.2 V.

Olympus traditionally (at least on 4/3´s)  has used the same connector for data transfer and wired remote. Not sure about those pocket cameras but I would expect same to happen on those.

One good thing on Oly µ4/3 series (Pens and Om-D) is that those all have exactly the *same* battery and it's not even chipped so it's easy and cheap to get a backup (or two). it's not at nice as having charger in camera, but otoh not so bad.
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2014, 03:15:25 am »
I know this isn't the point of this thread, but mini-USB sucks for device charging.  It's just too damn small and fragile.  I don't care how much PCB reinforcement you put, one topple off the desk at the wrong unfortunate angle and that SMD header is gone.  And if your only way to charge the damn thing is through the USB....  I don't think I've ever seen a single device that had a through hole properly anchored mini-usb connector.  And if you manage to not break the thing off the PCB, they wear out pretty fast and end up with lose dodgy connections.  How many cell phones have to be contorted into just the right position so the cable makes good enough connection to charge?

Complain all you want about barrel jack power connectors, but at least they can take a beating.  I'd say mini-usb is the absolute minimum. if you HAD to put power and data on the same jack.
 

Offline DomesticHacks

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2014, 08:09:58 am »
One problem when you allow the user to connect all kind of different chargers to your device is, that you have to support all of them. Some USB chargers for example don't implement the charging power selection etc. Yes, you culd solve this problems with standards, but most of the time it costs money to use them.
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Offline Gribo

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2014, 02:30:25 pm »
Sometimes you need proprietary connectors, especially when dealing with certifying bodies (FCC, UL and the likes), a special connector can save you lots of head aches and money with these clerks.
 

Offline TVman

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2014, 05:34:22 pm »
The only reason they do that is to tick people off..... :-\
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Offline open loop

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2014, 08:25:52 pm »
Does the special Panasonic cable do anything to the 5 V on he USB? If not I wonder how much fun it would be to de-solder the proprietary connector and "shoe horn" a standard micro USB connector in its place. Given that connector pitch is going to be different for starters I suspect this would be a very entertaining video  |O

Go on Dave!  >:D
 

Offline Insoft

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2014, 09:27:41 pm »
One connector that should of never have been invented is the micro USB, it is so prone to damage as users tend to damage it by not knowing the correct way round, as bad as Apple's 30pin dock connector that also had this issue, the new Apple connection great, just wack it in any way round you fancy, no pins just solid metal contacts and can handle high bandwidth digital, magnetic connection would of been perfect.

Only if they put a decent key on the micro USB it would be ok.

And Mobiles, NOKIA the king of strange power cables, what was the point of it all, why didn't they use micro USB or a good old 2.5 2.1 or smaller type connector

And phone manufacturers in the EU only use micro USB because of the stupid EU law, if they use micro USB then consumers only need one AC adaptor to power them all and keep waste down, we know that can't happen as not all devices are rated the same amp and were no better off, just loads of chargers with the same micro USB just waiting for some consumer to plug in a low amp rated micro USB charger to a high rated amp device.

Love Apple response to the EU, they give them the finger and came out with a new connector replacing the 30pin that the EU requested Apple to change to micro, in the end the EU had to amend the law and allow it as long a adaptor to take a micro USB can be used.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 09:47:46 pm by Insoft »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #578 - Proprietary Connector Rant
« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2014, 09:37:47 pm »
One connector that should of never have been invented is the micro USB, it is so prone to damage as users tend to damage it by not knowing the correct way round

Everyone keeps harping on about them breaking etc.
I've never broken or damaged a single one, or had one fail, ever.
 


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