EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
EEVblog => EEVblog Specific => Topic started by: EEVblog on June 11, 2014, 08:32:02 am
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Warranty VOID if NOT Removed T-Shirt:
http://teespring.com/warrantyvoid2 (http://teespring.com/warrantyvoid2)
What's inside a 1975 vintage Tektronix 213 portable oscilloscope/DMM combo?
EEVblog #628 - Tektronix 213 Vintage Portable Oscilloscope Teardown (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czv_8d66IQU#ws)
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Thank you Dave! I have been waiting for this particular teardown for some time.
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Looks like a lot of components are sitting in pcb embedded sockets?
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Looks like a lot of components are sitting in pcb embedded sockets?
Yep, almost all ICs and transistors are socketed.
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Does this scope work again? Did you manage to reassemble it?
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Thanks for the tear-down Dave. Nice retro instrument. I don't see too many of them on the market. When they do come up, they seem to be quite expensive, if they are functional. (About USD 600.00)
I wonder if this one is the most collectable portable oscilloscope or if there is another small one even better out there?
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I'm only making a wild guess, but could it be that the scope had a fixed probe?
it would explain the hacked in bnc-connector
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I'm only making a wild guess, but could it be that the scope had a fixed probe?
it would explain the hacked in bnc-connector
That's my guess. I have a two channel 10MHZ 222 model and the probes are fixed, no BNCs.
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1973 was a good year, the year when I was born :) That's the schematic on the tekwiki:
http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/213 (http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/213)
I think the 8038 is not a custom Tek chip, but from MOSTEK, the same manufacturer that produced the 6502 CPU. But I can't find it on the web, and interesting that the logo is different from other MOSTEK chips I know ("MOS" instead of MOSTEK). Maybe a really old chip.
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Whoever sent that in to Dave, thank you!
That was a fantastic teardown.
I loved the curved traces. Where they all curved because they were probably HAND drawn by some graphics artist on a big drafting table and not by computer?
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Even smaller CRT video screens exited BEFORE 1975.
Recall the classic 70s sci-fi series Space:1999?
It began running in 1974, and had cool technology including the Comlock:
http://catacombs.space1999.net/main/cguide/umcomlock.html (http://catacombs.space1999.net/main/cguide/umcomlock.html)
(http://catacombs.space1999.net/main/images/space/tis/sptis0068.jpg)
(http://catacombs.space1999.net/main/images/space/bs/spbs122.jpg)
The B/W CRT actually worked, as seen in many episodes.
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Recall the classic 70s sci-fi series Space:1999?
It began running in 1974, and had cool technology including the Comlock:
The one on the props were static pictures/slides backlit. And they used a Panasonic TR-001 portable TV set for the closeups, it was a big bigger.
http://www.tvhistory.tv/1974_Panasonic_TR001.JPG (http://www.tvhistory.tv/1974_Panasonic_TR001.JPG)
But still, I can only imagine how Panasonic managed to make a TV that small back in the early 70s.
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I loved the curved traces. Where they all curved because they were probably HAND drawn by some graphics artist on a big drafting table and not by computer?
I remember that my grandfather used some etch resist PCB transfers:
(http://www.jprelec.co.uk/image/250-120_big.jpg)
You can rub the symbols down to a film for exposure. Curved traces with longer radius could be done by careful rotating it while rubbing it down (there were longer traces available as well). And you could get PCB transfers with letters and digits.
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Whoever sent that in to Dave, thank you!
That was a fantastic teardown.
I loved the curved traces. Where they all curved because they were probably HAND drawn by some graphics artist on a big drafting table and not by computer?
http://www.vintagetek.org/tektronix-printed-circuit-boards-1969/ (http://www.vintagetek.org/tektronix-printed-circuit-boards-1969/) This video explains in great detail how they made PCB back then,
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I loved the curved traces. Where they all curved because they were probably HAND drawn by some graphics artist on a big drafting table and not by computer?
I remember that my grandfather used some etch resist PCB transfers:
(http://www.jprelec.co.uk/image/250-120_big.jpg)
You can rub the symbols down to a film for exposure. Curved traces with longer radius could be done by careful rotating it while rubbing it down (there were longer traces available as well). And you could get PCB transfers with letters and digits.
Curved traces were done using rolls of crepe tape - you unroll it while pressing down and guiding it with your finger.
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The one on the props were static pictures/slides backlit. And they used a Panasonic TR-001 portable TV set for the closeups, it was a big bigger.
From the first (pilot) episode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cq7isloJj8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cq7isloJj8)
Skip to 09:14
Pretty sure the Comlock prop was wired, but that's real LIVE video on the small CRT.
Realistic-looking (working -- up to a point, anyway) props and SPFX are what made the series groundbreaking for the day.
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I have an old JVC portable TV set that dates back to the late 1970's/early 1980's. Colour CRT, multi system ( PAL, NTSC, SECAM) and a VHF/ UHF tuner and video and audio input and output. All through hole, and somewhere I still have the manual with the service manual. Basically boards stuffed with components and wires wrapped around a colour CRT.
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Realistic-looking (working -- up to a point, anyway) props and SPFX are what made the series groundbreaking for the day.
Space 1999 sure has that 2001 vibe to it... the black and white plastics everywhere, the only other colors being bold red/orange/yellow.
Your right, I don't remember seeing the display actually move when they held it. That's fascinating.
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Used to use one of these on field trips.......till I dropped it once.
Ian.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/112/303615653_a3a24ce688.jpg)
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Dave,
You're right. The BNC on the back is a hack. The power cord looks like it was replaced as well.
Originally, this scope had a permanently attached probe that was stored by wrapping it around the unit in the slot at the back (where you removed the mounting screws). The length was just perfect so that the probe slipped into the slot and didn't stick out at all. The soft rubbery stuff that half covers the slot helped to keep it in place. Same with the power cord. A lifetime ago I used the dual-trace storage version of this scope. They had to sacrifice the DMM function to get the extra circuitry in.
Another cute feature of that unit was the neck strap. It clipped around the two studs that are below the CRT. Add the battery option and you've got a totally portable, hands-free scope & DMM. Sweet!
Ed
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Used to use one of these on field trips.......till I dropped it once.
Ian.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/112/303615653_a3a24ce688.jpg)
Me as well, it also died after a few years. Wonder if I should dig it out and see if it is fixable now I have found the service manuals and have another scope to test it with.
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Just a quick Q....
How does this vintage "mini" Tek compare to the modern Chinese "pocket" o'scopes?
Yeah .... I know I'm openin' a can-o-worms here ... but just to be clear: let's forget the novelty/collectibility factor and concentrate on real/regular bench or "portable" use. Think: PERFORMANCE and ACCURACY and ERGONOMICS.
I think true portability issues like battery-use and "size-/weight-class" can also be neglected.
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I saw 2 in this scope series on ebay a few months ago sold as either non-tested or not working. I eyed them closely because they were really cheap, but as usual within the last hour the price jumped from $20 to over $100 so I passed on them.
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About that 'weird ass' IC that is shown in the video at 22:16, it is marked:
TEK
US 155
0048 01
304
is that 0048 a date code? wk 48/2000 ?
From the picture I can't see it clearly but is it socketed?
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The TEK part number is 155-0048-01. It is a trigger and sweep generator chip, custom made by Tektronix.
The datasheet is available here:
http://w140.com/155-0048-01.pdf (http://w140.com/155-0048-01.pdf)
The "304" is a production run number. Translating it to a date is impossible without access to Tek's internal records.
It is socketed, as are most semiconductors in Tek gear of that vintage. The socket contacts are recessed right into the PCB. That package is a Tek design, that they called a "minipack". A real PITA to remove and install without bending pins.
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I hope you put it back together,and it's a keeper in your lab.
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Hi
Thank you very much for that great teardown.
Just one remark: U260 is not a custom made TEK chip. It was manufactured by MOSTEK; its data sheet can be found
here: http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dlmain/Databooks-2/Book271-73.pdf (http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dlmain/Databooks-2/Book271-73.pdf)
HTH and best regards
reinhardz
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1973 was a good year, the year when I was born :) That's the schematic on the tekwiki:
http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/213 (http://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/213)
I think the 8038 is not a custom Tek chip, but from MOSTEK, the same manufacturer that produced the 6502 CPU. But I can't find it on the web, and interesting that the logo is different from other MOSTEK chips I know ("MOS" instead of MOSTEK). Maybe a really old chip.
MOS is not the same as MOSTEK.
MOS was an independent company , got borged by from commodore and then spat out again and finally sold its fab to someone who ran it into the ground and left a big stinking chemical cesspool...
MOSTEK was a bunch of runaways from TI. they were borged by ST. some of their products still live on today
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I did a doubletake when I saw the prominent 8038 datecode on that chip, as well.
The 8038 I am familiar with is the ICL8038 from Intersil. A function generator/VCO chip that I played around with as a kid (Radio Shack used to carry them and the Mims notebooks featured them).
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I used to collect these Tektronix handheld scopes and have a few working examples :)
I can confirm that the probes for these oscilloscopes were permanently connected to the unit and had a small in line coaxial connector in case the probe needed to be changed. I managed to source a pair of spare probes for my units at a reasonable cost. They are as rare as hens teeth now. It is important to be aware that the input to the oscilloscope channel PCB is a non standard impedance and the scope probe cable was a very specific length to match without the need for a compensation trimmer. Fitting a standard oscilloscope probe designed for 1MOhm inputs is not supposed to work with these, though I have not tried it myself. The input compensation would be incorrect and the 10X division ratio wrong.
This is incorrect .... probe is 1MOhm X1 type with no internal resistor fitted.
I own a 213 in my collection but it needs a tidy up and every knob has been robbed from it :(
The 213 was a very special model as it contained a very accurate meter that needed to be calibrated by Tektronix themselves. The calibration process was said to be too challenging for generic calibration houses. The calibration techs considered these units a PITA to work on.
I own a 211, two 212's , a 213 and a 222 :) They were not cheap when I bought them but prices have increased significantly as they became collectable. Bandwidth of all but the 222 is tiny by modern standards at around 500kHz. Still love them though....almost pieces of art !
Aurora
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The 212's and 222 are in the lab but I dug out my 211 and 213 units for some photos. I also found part of an original probe assembly. The
X10 divider tip is missing from this one. I have two brand new assemblies so this is really just a spare cable. The coaxial connector may be seen at the end of the probe cable and this mated with a short cable within the scope.
It is interesting to note that my 213 has also had its probe cut off and a BNC plug attached. Such action appears to have been born out of desperation when probed stopped being available and users were not aware of the compensation and non standard divider ratio built into the probe & cable assembly.
Edited as incorrect.
The 213 is as bought from Israel and needs restoration. I just don't have the time to track down all the missing knobs at the moment.
The 211 is without mains lead and probe at the moment as I rarely use it. The two 212's are in 'as new' condition as they came from unissued Military stock. The 222 is also in great condition but all these scopes are only in my ownership because I like the engineering that went into them. As practical scopes they are totally obsolete museum pieces.
Aurora
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I just found the missing probe head.
Ooooops I got it wrong regarding the probe .... the probe is clearly marked 1 MOhm so is not likely to be a X10 probe :-[ My mistake.
Maybe the impedance issue was with another TEK scope probe assembly. My memory fails me these days. I will need to check the service manual. I have service manuals for all of my 2xx series scopes.
Just measured the resistance of the probe head.... Zero Ohms so no internal resistor is used. Probe is unique only in its odd shape to fit the 2xx series. I will delete my comments regarding the probe in my previous post as it is obviously incorrect.
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Hi,
It is nice to see that Tektronix did not copy the power supply design from the 211:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-628-tektronix-213-vintage-portable-oscilloscope-teardown/?action=dlattach;attach=97300;image)
The 211 power supply has some innovative features:
1) The batteries are on the line side of the isolation barrier.
2) A capacitive dropper capacitor is used to set the charging current. C210 or C212 is selected for 220V or 110v operation. There is a procedure in the manual for changing the values of these parts for different line voltages and frequencies.
3) The batteries assemblies are a total of 10 NiCad batteries.
4) Quite often dead scopes can fixed by replacing the batteries.
The Tektronix 214 uses a similar power supply design.
I am not a big fan of this power supply design. :--
Regards,
Jay_Diddy_B
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Totally agree regarding the 211 power supply. When I first saw it I thought it was damned dangerous. We used to call such power supplies 'infinity' PSU's as they used capacitive reactance and read open circuit if tested across the input. From memory, the batteries were a significant part of the smoothing and regulation in the 211. Operating it without batteries fitted was not recommended.
As a piece of trivia for readers.... When I bought my 212's, I wanted the service manual so I ordered a scanned copy from a reliable supplier in the USA. The CD duly arrived and I opened the PDF. Imagine my surprise when I read the title page of the document that stated that it was a manual for the TEK 212 ... which formed part of a surface to air missile system :scared:
Imagine if someone had checked the content of that CD as it entered the UK ....... I may have received a visit from Special Branch to explain my interest in SAM systems ! The manual was actually a copy of the NATO maintenance document for the oscilloscope as it was part of the toolkit for a SAM system. Field engineers would have likely been very pleased to have such a compact oscilloscope for diagnostics, but it isn't something that would, itself, be field repairable. Both of my 'new' 212's came from MOD surplus and had the NATO stock number on them, so they may well have come from such a SAM toolkit.
Aurora
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I loved the curved traces. Where they all curved because they were probably HAND drawn by some graphics artist on a big drafting table and not by computer?
Likely used Bishop graphics tapes or some such. Maybe at double size and then photo reduced.
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Dave,
To answer you question on how late the 213 was sold, my Tek catalog from 1986 has it listed, but not the 1990 catalog. I don't have the in-between years. So as least as late as '86.
Nice Teardown!
From the catalog (1986):
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According to the excellent video linked above, Tek's PCB layouts were done with tape at 4X size, then reduced.
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Recall the classic 70s sci-fi series Space:1999?
It began running in 1974, and had cool technology including the Comlock:
The one on the props were static pictures/slides backlit. And they used a Panasonic TR-001 portable TV set for the closeups, it was a big bigger.
http://www.tvhistory.tv/1974_Panasonic_TR001.JPG (http://www.tvhistory.tv/1974_Panasonic_TR001.JPG)
But still, I can only imagine how Panasonic managed to make a TV that small back in the early 70s.
CRTs can be made as small as you like!
This,of course,reduces the power requirements,so you can use smaller parts.
I remember having to replace the tube,reconverge, & set the colour balance on a very small Sony Picture Monitor which we used in the TVW7 Chopper.
I think the tube would have been about 64 mm across the diagonals,or thereabouts.(Yes,it was a Trinitron,& magnetically deflected).
This was in the mid '80s,but from the type of parts used,I would place the year of manufacture in the 1970s.
It had all the circuit boards mounted round the tube,making it a sod of a thing to adjust.
Vibration problems in the helicopter meant I had to pull it apart & try to make the boards as secure as they originally were ------about three goes to get it right!
The viewfinder monitors in tube type portable cameras were even smaller.
.
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I loved the curved traces. Where they all curved because they were probably HAND drawn by some graphics artist on a big drafting table and not by computer?
Likely used Bishop graphics tapes or some such. Maybe at double size and then photo reduced.
We found this gem in A Manual of Engineering Drawing for Students and Draftsmen, 9th Ed., by French & Vierck,1960, p. 487.
Printed Circuits allow miniaturization and the elimination of circuit errors—advantages that cannot be obtained by other methods. Once a pattern or suitable design is established, preparation of a black and white drawing can start. Scales for reduction, for example, 4 to 1, 3 to 1, or 2 to 1, are used. To insure sufficient bonding area of the metal laminate during soldering operations, lines should not be less than 1/32 inch in width when reduced. Line separation should never be closer than 1/32 inch on the final circuit. Figure 19.24 illustrates the drawing of printed circuits.
(http://blog.emscdn.com/media/2013/06/engineeringdrawing500.jpg) (http://www.evilmadscientist.com/2013/how-printed-circuit-boards-are-designed-1960-edition/)
http://www.evilmadscientist.com/2013/how-printed-circuit-boards-are-designed-1960-edition/ (http://www.evilmadscientist.com/2013/how-printed-circuit-boards-are-designed-1960-edition/)
Is there any episode about this? I think it's been mentioned once or twice, but never in detail.
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Nice teardown, I used to use this in my apprenticeship back in 1980. It was still a beauty in that day. Handy while working in North West Oztralia.
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Just a quick Q....
How does this vintage "mini" Tek compare to the modern Chinese "pocket" o'scopes?
Yeah .... I know I'm openin' a can-o-worms here ... but just to be clear: let's forget the novelty/collectibility factor and concentrate on real/regular bench or "portable" use. Think: PERFORMANCE and ACCURACY and ERGONOMICS.
I think true portability issues like battery-use and "size-/weight-class" can also be neglected.
It is an Oscilloscope---I'm not quite sure what the other things are! ;D
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I own a fully working, nearly mint 214. The 214 is a dual trace, 500 kHz storage scope. Although limited in bandwidth, for audio, control systems and other lesser dynamic systems it is a nice little scope that goes down to 1mV/div. The only thing I have done is replace the batteries. Storage (non-digital, based on a special CRT design) is a nice, and today unique feature.
As stated, the original probes on these series are hard wired in, and the BNC jack on the tear down was a user mod.
Although not pocket-able, they certainly were portable.
paul
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Has anybody considered how the digits are displayed on the screen? I have a few ideas using large EPROMs and DACs but these are obviously incorrect as Tektronix managed to do the job with only a few chips.
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The viewfinder monitors in tube type portable cameras were even smaller.
(http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/babycrt.jpg)
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Has anybody considered how the digits are displayed on the screen? I have a few ideas using large EPROMs and DACs but these are obviously incorrect as Tektronix managed to do the job with only a few chips.
It looks like the first chip was designed to drive a seven-seg display, and you can see how the digit selects are used to generate different X offsets for each digit, so the second chip will only be doing a single digit. Could be mostly a ROM+simple state machine.
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If Dave had been able to complete the dissection of the input module, we would have got a better view of that cam-operated rotary switch.
Those things were just brilliant, IMHO. In some cases a very long shaft off the panel knob, and extending well back into the bowels of the gear.
They had little gold-plated leaf switches soldered directly to the PC board (much like those inter-board sockets). and then a custom-molded cam on the shaft.
As you rotate the knob, various switches on the PC board would be opened or closed depending on the shape of each cam segment.
As I said IMHO, truly brilliant on SEVERAL levels. Hats off to those Tektronix designers back in that golden age.
As I drive by the Tek campus these days, it is a mere shadow of its former glory. Many of the buildings seem to be sold or leased to others.
And their custom, in-house semiconductor fab was sold to Maxim who probably still makes custom parts for Tek and others.
Here is a screen-grab from Google Maps street-view....
(http://www.rcrowley.com/images/TekMax.png)
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I've gotta few Tek's from the mid 70s. Very durable and reliable (not surprised that Dave's unit still works)... common problem is open/shorted tant. caps. Often that's all that's wrong with eBay vintage "dead" Tek's.
That PCB is very neat and clean ... how was PCB assembly done during this era ... by (very steady) manual hands or some vintage automation (pick-n-place)?
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Great teardown, love the old school stuff. Interestingly, earlier this week I went to a university surplus auction and bid on a pallet of lab equipment, power supplies and a Tektronix 577 Curve Tracer Oscilloscope with the 177 Standard Test Fixture (the whole pallet was $140 US).
And, it appears to work a treat:
(http://zmabz.smugmug.com/photos/i-CtB4fjX/0/L/i-CtB4fjX-L.jpg)
The date codes are early 1989.
(http://zmabz.smugmug.com/photos/i-rZtWh5G/0/M/i-rZtWh5G-M.jpg)
(http://zmabz.smugmug.com/photos/i-DttF5TK/0/M/i-DttF5TK-M.jpg)
Cheers,
Mark
***********************
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I used a 213 back in the early 1980s when I was an electronics tech working on ships. It got dragged everywhere from down in the ship's bilge to all the way to the top of a mast. Weighed a ton though, for it's size. If I remember correctly (and that was a long time ago) I think it was powered by gel cell batteries.
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That thing is just adorable! Would pair well with my modular synth!
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Thankyou for that teardown Dave it was a brilliant teardown engineers that designed that scope must have spent a very long time on the design, it was a pleasure to watch the video.
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Meanwhile in Soviet Russia. Not a compact scope.
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I have a 512 kHz Tek 212. That is the 2 channel version. Mine has the Original nicads. http://www.pa4tim.nl/?p=638 (http://www.pa4tim.nl/?p=638) Here you see the fixed probes too. I bought it for 40 euro incl transport.
Mine has a problem in the CRT. It works but the trace sometimes compresses. A few soft taps on the crt solves this (most times).
(http://www.pa4tim.nl/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/212.jpg)
I also have the TTI 10 MHz scope shown by others somewhere in this thread. That has a very tiny CRT and the trace is ultra sharp.
http://www.pa4tim.nl/?p=3180 (http://www.pa4tim.nl/?p=3180)
(http://www.pa4tim.nl/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/thandarSC110.jpg)
And besides those 2 I have a Hameg baby scope with a round CRT. Not as small as the Tek but a lot older, from a time most scopes where huges heat generating monsters, the Hameg is "tube-powered".
Pictures here: http://www.pa4tim.nl/?p=3208 (http://www.pa4tim.nl/?p=3208)
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My dad swears that he had a scope with a screen no bigger than 1 inch when he was serving for the Air Force (Telco officer). Probably early 60's to late 60's might be a bit earlier.
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In the 60s, whilst still at school, I played around with a 1inch CRT 1CP1 http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aar0006.htm (http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aar0006.htm)
I was trying to get a TV picture on it.
Ashley
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Just a quick Q....
How does this vintage "mini" Tek compare to the modern Chinese "pocket" o'scopes?
It's odd that there isn't a single comment in this thread mentioning the best thing about these miniature Tek scopes (although, to be fair, Dave's has been seriously 'downgraded' by the removal of the batteries and integrated cable): they are double-insulated, thus allowing floating measurements up to 600V above ground. I don't think many of the modern Chinese battery-powered DSOs fulfill that requirement - which, one could argue, might be one of the main requirements for wanting a battery-powered scope.
As practical scopes they are totally obsolete museum pieces.
Aurora
That's ridiculous. As mentioned above, I use mine regularly for doing floating measurements. There are certainly circumstances where that ability is more important than BW.
I have a 512 kHz Tek 212. That is the 2 channel version. Mine has the Original nicads.
I'm not sure I'd leave those in if I were you. I've replaced my NiCad batteries twice in the last 30 years (the first time after leakage - requiring extensive cleanup). I've also swapped the caps, as outlined in Tek's manual, to change from 120V to 220V operation.
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Another really old vintage oscilloscope:
Episode 7 - An Oscilloscope from 1946 Can Still Teach Some Lessons (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkFddiu2Dvk#ws)
He does a surprising "tear down" :)
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Meanwhile in Soviet Russia. Not a compact scope.
You have mentioned the Soviet C1-112A... actually it is a quite compact oscilloscope with a DMM (but only DCV and Ohms) from late '80s (it was still produced till mid '90s, after the USSR collapse, in Latvia). What may be interesting, the DMM is taking 2 "cards" (a separate and removable module) and is made completely from TTL 7400 equivalent ICs!
Sorry, but I have only German and Russian version, so I guess you prefer German ;)
Character Generator:
(http://obrazki.elektroda.pl/6279054300_1426542927.png)
Digital MultiMeter (ADC):
(http://obrazki.elektroda.pl/3362565700_1426542965.png)