Author Topic: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!  (Read 292580 times)

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Offline X

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1150 on: May 02, 2017, 02:46:21 pm »
Maybe the camera is powered by the solar system.  :-DD
Or it was just FREAKIN' out.
 
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Offline ataradov

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1151 on: May 22, 2017, 08:24:32 am »
Well, looks like one tile is dead at the moment.
Alex
 

Offline marko_lorentz

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1152 on: May 22, 2017, 01:11:14 pm »
Unfortunately, there are excessive amounts of journalism that fail in the accuracy metric.

Some hope here: http://interestingengineering.com/solar-roadways-engineering-failure/

Maverick Baker names at least some of the shortcomings. :-+

Edit:
Scott Brusaw's "Behind the scenes" article can be found here http://www.solarroadways.com/Blog/Show?b=8
It gives some interesting insights (PCB of a controller shown, discussion of LEDs used, bus, light sensor, heating etc) and ... well ... I must admit that it is even more complex and expensive than expected.
Seems that electronics and computing power in each single tile alone is an issue to address - can't imagine to bury such an incredible amount of micro-controllers in the ground  :o
« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 01:23:09 pm by marko_lorentz »
 

Offline max_torque

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1153 on: May 25, 2017, 01:34:11 pm »

Edit:
Scott Brusaw's "Behind the scenes" article can be found here http://www.solarroadways.com/Blog/Show?b=8
It gives some interesting insights (PCB of a controller shown, discussion of LEDs used, bus, light sensor, heating etc) and ... well ... I must admit that it is even more complex and expensive than expected.



Complex?  It reads like a (bad) school project to me!  I mean, a micro, reading a light sensor and driving a small LED array, hardly going to need a 100MHz ARM processor now is it??  lol


No the real issue is that it is still pointless.  Cars have lights on, and we don't have, and never have had, a need for configurable road markings (even if you could see them) and soon, peer-to-peer vehicle networking is going to make all that existing stuff obsolete, and as mentioned a million times before, all that pointless feature content actually renders the primary function (generating electricity) null and void as well.........


 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1154 on: May 25, 2017, 01:50:56 pm »
Scott Brusaw's "Behind the scenes" article can be found here http://www.solarroadways.com/Blog/Show?b=8

From the article:
Quote
We experimented with a true RGB LED, but experienced some problems: to make white, you illuminate all three (red, green, and blue). That requires three times the power of illuminating a single dedicated white LED.
This doesn't make sense. Is it only full on or full off? If it is PWM controlled, then you would drive each LED with only 1/3 the duty cycle and it would need the same power and would have the same brightness as a white LED which is on all the time.
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Online Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1155 on: May 25, 2017, 01:55:13 pm »
No the real issue is that it is still pointless.  Cars have lights on, and we don't have, and never have had, a need for configurable road markings

No adverts on the roads??? Just think of the revenue!!!

Also: All the roads could turn red to warn people in the event of a nuclear war.

Or ... change a whole lane to blue to tell people to clear it whenever an important person needs to get somewhere.

The uses for video displays on roads are limitless.
 

Online Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1156 on: May 25, 2017, 04:02:41 pm »
The uses for video displays on roads are limitless.

Gran Turismo ... real races with competitors from all over the world - and nobody has to travel abroad.  Just set out a piece of track which is the same for each player and drive your real car down the road with your competitors displayed around you!

(Would be better if they could do 3D.)
 

Offline FloFo

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1157 on: May 29, 2017, 08:18:15 am »
[...]
No the real issue is that it is still pointless.  Cars have lights on, and we don't have, and never have had, a need for configurable road markings (even if you could see them) [...]

There is a need for reconfigureable road markings, e.g. around convention centers and sport places. I know one example in Germany (Messe Hannover) where a 4-lane-road can be reconfigured, giving 3 lanes toward the convention center in the morning and 2 or 3 outwards in the afternoon to reduce traffic jams. This solution is done by moveable barriers, which requires a lot of work to reconfigure ...

Another maybe useful case could be a dynamic display of speed limits (which is also done on some german highways with overhead led signs).

Don't get me wrong, i think solar roadways or LEDs in road surfaces is a waste of resources, but there are use cases of configureable road markings ;)
 

Online Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1158 on: May 29, 2017, 09:39:10 am »
There is a need for reconfigureable road markings, e.g. around convention centers and sport places. I know one example in Germany (Messe Hannover) where a 4-lane-road can be reconfigured, giving 3 lanes toward the convention center in the morning and 2 or 3 outwards in the afternoon to reduce traffic jams. This solution is done by moveable barriers, which requires a lot of work to reconfigure

I like this solution.  It's in a couple of places in the USA, one of which is the Golden Gate.

 

Online EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1159 on: May 29, 2017, 09:59:55 am »
There is a need for reconfigureable road markings, e.g. around convention centers and sport places. I know one example in Germany (Messe Hannover) where a 4-lane-road can be reconfigured, giving 3 lanes toward the convention center in the morning and 2 or 3 outwards in the afternoon to reduce traffic jams. This solution is done by moveable barriers, which requires a lot of work to reconfigure

I like this solution.  It's in a couple of places in the USA, one of which is the Golden Gate.


That's gold.
Classic nice engineering solution to a problem.
 

Online PA0PBZ

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1160 on: May 29, 2017, 10:07:10 am »
That's gold.
Classic nice engineering solution to a problem.

We (in Holland) have lanes in the middle of the road that can be assigned either way by signs and barriers. Not that flexible because you can only enter/exit at the ends but a lot faster to assign.
Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1161 on: May 29, 2017, 10:19:59 am »
That's brilliant, and you don't even have to stop the traffic.

The way it works means there's no danger to anybody* - neither side of the road gets narrower at any time, you just get an extra lane as you go past the machine.


(*) Apart from people gawking at the machine as they go past it.
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1162 on: May 29, 2017, 11:22:29 am »
In a few years with self driving cars, all barriers, markers etc. will become obsolete, and some more years and we don't need to drive to work at all anymore, meeting all inside VR from home.
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Offline Mr.B

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1163 on: May 29, 2017, 10:45:23 pm »
I like this solution.  It's in a couple of places in the USA, one of which is the Golden Gate.

Similar/Same system used on the Auckland Harbour Bridge here in NZ.


Time is the overseer of all things.
 

Offline rs20

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1164 on: June 01, 2017, 01:14:48 am »
Similar/Same system used on the Auckland Harbour Bridge here in NZ.

Indeed, and has been in use since 1990.
 

Offline Dragonfly

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1165 on: July 15, 2017, 06:02:24 pm »
National Geographic just published an interview with Solar Roadways founders Scott and Julie Brusaw: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/07/chasing-genius-solar-roadways/

According to Scott in the interview, all the problems brought up by the skeptics have been address except for the price and massive manufacturing will solve that.  Hmmm...  I don't think they are fully disclosing all the issues other than price that have not yet been addressed.
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1166 on: July 15, 2017, 09:31:36 pm »
When I'm bored, I'll plot the Solar aroadways data versus the PVWatt predictions. What appears to be happening is what everyone predicted is that the output would tank as the panels aged and became soiled. It's been nothing but bluebird days here and the output of those panels is worse now than it was in late spring. The peak daily output since startup has been 1.3kWh with the last two weeks running in the 0.8x kWh range.

The roadway markings trial was such a train wreck that they set it back to disco mode.

Nothing has been solved. Absolutely nothing.
 

Offline Domagoj T

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1167 on: July 16, 2017, 02:55:39 pm »
National Geographic just published an interview with Solar Roadways founders Scott and Julie Brusaw...
Came here to mention this, but got ninja'd.
The author Christina Nunez, while acknowledging the existence of criticism, fails to make an effort and actually include some of that criticism in the article, (and one would assume) research that criticism, which makes for quite dishonest journalism, if you ask me.
Perhaps the editor should be made aware of the practice and asked to include some of that criticism.

NatGeo site http://www.nationalgeographic.com/corrections/ says:
"To send us feedback, email us at editor@natgeo.com"

Dave, don't you have that shirt that says something about feedback?
 

Online Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1168 on: July 16, 2017, 03:26:12 pm »
Dave, don't you have that shirt that says something about feedback?

That talks about negative feedback... You know, when part of the output of an electrical or control system is used to affect the input in such a way as to reduce error and for the output to be a more faithful representation of the input...

Hey!  That still works for this case ... ... in theory, anyway.
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1169 on: July 22, 2017, 02:24:16 pm »
I was bored. Here's the daily output over time. Next, I'll add daily peak output. Things are not going well. It looks like part of the system failed in early July.

A system with 1320W nameplate capacity has been so poorly implemented that it's peak power output is 42W 168W.
(correction due to the fact that the inverters report on 15 minute intervals, not hourly.)

« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 08:26:38 pm by LabSpokane »
 

Offline TheWelly888

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1170 on: July 22, 2017, 07:52:58 pm »
^^
Can you show us how you worked out the peak(?) power output of 45W please?

I'm a bit confused - the peak that I see is 1.3kWh on one day during week starting May 7th. This implied a total energy output of 4680000J Divide this by (24hours x 60mins x 60s) brings an average wattage of 54W that day??

You can do anything with the right attitude and a hammer.
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1171 on: July 22, 2017, 08:25:35 pm »
^^
Can you show us how you worked out the peak(?) power output of 45W please?

I'm a bit confused - the peak that I see is 1.3kWh on one day during week starting May 7th. This implied a total energy output of 4680000J Divide this by (24hours x 60mins x 60s) brings an average wattage of 54W that day??

Good catch, the system reports in 15 minute increments it turns out.  Peak output was 42*4= 168W, *NOT* 42W.

Still, that's 12% of the rated output at noon.  I would expect normal solar panels laid flat on the ground to product at least 3-4X that number.

It really looks like the system is failing.  The attached images are from today.  There is full sunlight, no shading at all, but the output is about 100W right now.  The max output is down about 25% from the spring peak of 130W. 

One could have simply bought a $250 panel and a $200 micro inverter, laid them flat on the ground and done as well or better than this project. 
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 08:33:12 pm by LabSpokane »
 
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Offline f4eru

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1172 on: July 23, 2017, 03:43:00 pm »
OMG, Solar freaking disco walkways is a fail !!

Somebody has news about the french 1km test road ?
 

Offline LabSpokane

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1173 on: July 23, 2017, 04:53:01 pm »
OMG, Solar freaking disco walkways is a fail !!

History is bound to repeat itself, so somebody has to graph the numbers ...

:-//
 

Offline ludzinc

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #1174 on: July 26, 2017, 01:54:41 pm »
The Facebook page "Solar Freakin Bullshit" has a past about some panels appearing to have failed.

(https://m.facebook.com/groups/947009518667276?ref=m_notif&notif_t=group_activity)

So I jumped on the webcam to look for myself and .... nothing. Looks like the webcam is down.

Coincidence?  I think not...
 


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