EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!

[james_s]

Transparent concrete? You mean some sort of plastic resin I assume? Don't underestimate the ability of thieves, it's not unheard of for people to use power tools or cutting torches to swipe copper and other valuable substances. I would not be surprised if someone used a cordless circular saw to cut a section out.

I can't imagine any serious espionage attempt would hit this stuff, who is going to steal garbage technology? Any remotely competent tinkerer could come up with something that fails to live up to claims just as well as this stuff does.

[glarsson]

Transparent concrete? You mean some sort of plastic resin I assume?

I don't know. It is the term used in all articles about the opening of this solar road. I have no idea what it is made of.

This new solar road has been installed on a two-kilometer stretch of the Jinan City Expressway, in Jinan City. One of its strengths is that it uses, for the first time, “transparent concrete” , which, according to those responsible for the work, has almost the same structural properties as conventional asphalt.

Don't underestimate the ability of thieves, it's not unheard of for people to use power tools or cutting torches to swipe copper and other valuable substances. I would not be surprised if someone used a cordless circular saw to cut a section out.

They only cut out "6 inches" by "6 feet". Not much use for anything except reverse engineering.

I can't imagine any serious espionage attempt would hit this stuff, who is going to steal garbage technology? Any remotely competent tinkerer could come up with something that fails to live up to claims just as well as this stuff does.

Some people in the US, France and China think it is freaking fantastic.

[hendorog]

Has anyone walked through a scenario of how this could play out?

* City council/Roading authority needs road resurfaced and requests quotes from contractors.
* Quotes supplied, one has solar roadway option
* Council looks at that proposal _in comparison with an ordinary road surface_ and selects it to make them look 'green'
* Contractor installs solar road

They would not compare it to solar panels on houses as the city council do not own the houses.

Putting solar panels over roads on a structure is a better option for efficiency, but if the roading company doesn't offer it, then it might not even be considered. Would they bother finding another supplier? Probably not, just resurface the road in cheap asphalt.

I could see this that happening.

[nctnico]

Transparent concrete? You mean some sort of plastic resin I assume?

I don't know. It is the term used in all articles about the opening of this solar road. I have no idea what it is made of.

Some kind of plastic ofcourse. 'Transparent concrete' is definitely something which got translated wrong somewhere between a Chinese engineer and an English speaking journalist with no further education than primary school.

[ivaylo]

In the civilized world this shouldn't be a problem.

Yeah, right. All that stuff is barely accessible. And accessible stuff gets stolen all the time for copper. And that's in the middle of silicon valley. Homeless people disable traffic lights for copper to recycle.

I was talking about the civilized world...

[ataradov]

I was talking about the civilized world...

You can poke fun all you want, that is not going to change the reality.

[james_s]

If someone can point me to this mythical "civilized world" where theft and vandalism doesn't occur I'd like to know. Sounds like a nice place.

[jpc]

Quote from: ivaylo on Today at 08:16:32

>Quote from: ataradov on Yesterday at 07:54:29

>Quote from: ivaylo on Yesterday at 07:52:25

In the civilized world this shouldn't be a problem.

 Yeah, right. All that stuff is barely accessible. And accessible stuff gets stolen all the time for copper. And that's in the middle of silicon valley. Homeless people disable traffic lights for copper to recycle.

I was talking about the civilized world...

Just google trackside theft of copper or roadside theft of copper with the name of a country at the end and you'll get a mix of articles about protecting against such theft to theft ranging from a few metres to organised gangs taking it by 100s of metres at a time. Sometimes, these are active high voltage lines that they first 'switch off'.

[james_s]

In my area someone got into an access corridor on a bridge of some sort and removed thousands of feet of copper grounding wire and nobody even noticed for a while. I always enjoy hearing about some idiot who gets electrocuted trying to steal copper from a live electrical substation, cleansing the gene pool.

[Fungus]

Transparent concrete? You mean some sort of plastic resin I assume?

I don't know. It is the term used in all articles about the opening of this solar road. I have no idea what it is made of.

It's almost as if you've never heard of a web site called infoseek.

Some kind of plastic ofcourse. 'Transparent concrete' is definitely something which got translated wrong somewhere between a Chinese engineer and an English speaking journalist with no further education than primary school.

Nope, it's really made of concrete.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translucent_concrete

[Fungus]

If someone can point me to this mythical "civilized world" where theft and vandalism doesn't occur I'd like to know. Sounds like a nice place.

Monaco.

[james_s]

Transparent concrete? You mean some sort of plastic resin I assume?

I don't know. It is the term used in all articles about the opening of this solar road. I have no idea what it is made of.

It's almost as if you've never heard of a web site called infoseek.

Some kind of plastic ofcourse. 'Transparent concrete' is definitely something which got translated wrong somewhere between a Chinese engineer and an English speaking journalist with no further education than primary school.

Nope, it's really made of concrete.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translucent_concrete

Are you sure? According to that article, the translucent concrete transmits about 2% of the light that hits it. Surely blocking 98% of the light is not going to result in an effective solar panel even under ideal conditions.

[ataradov]

Monaco.

Great, its population is 40 000. San Jose alone is 1 million. We are totally talking about the same stuff.

There is a 2 km^2 patch of farm land in the middle of Idaho, where nobody steals copper either.

[Fungus]

Are you sure?

Not 100% 

Are you sure? According to that article, the translucent concrete transmits about 2% of the light that hits it. Surely blocking 98% of the light is not going to result in an effective solar panel even under ideal conditions.

2% light ... with 5% fibers.

Maybe they put in more fibers, or improved it in some other way.

The stuff on the solar road is also a lot thinner than those walls:

[james_s]

Solar aside, that optical concrete is certainly nifty stuff, I'd never even heard of such a thing before. It would be totally cool as a building material.

[ivaylo]

If someone can point me to this mythical "civilized world" where theft and vandalism doesn't occur I'd like to know. Sounds like a nice place.

Yeah, time to buy an airplane ticket. Canada, Australia/NZ, Northern Europe (Russia excluded), Japan... Pretty civilized in my book.

[james_s]

I can't speak for some of those places but I can assure you that theft and vandalism does occur in Canada and Europe, I know people who have been victims. Go to any densely populated urban area and there will be criminal activity, some worse than others but it will always be there.

[ivaylo]

To whatever degree that is true, the argument that we can't ever have advanced infrastructure in society because "the thieves" will get it is ridiculous.

[james_s]

That's not the argument at all, simply it's something that must be taken into consideration. If you leave something of value unsupervised in an area with a lot of people coming through, somebody with nothing better to do will eventually steal it or break it.

[Someone]

Transparent concrete? You mean some sort of plastic resin I assume?

I don't know. It is the term used in all articles about the opening of this solar road. I have no idea what it is made of.

It's almost as if you've never heard of a web site called infoseek.

Some kind of plastic ofcourse. 'Transparent concrete' is definitely something which got translated wrong somewhere between a Chinese engineer and an English speaking journalist with no further education than primary school.

Nope, it's really made of concrete.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translucent_concrete

Are you sure? According to that article, the translucent concrete transmits about 2% of the light that hits it. Surely blocking 98% of the light is not going to result in an effective solar panel even under ideal conditions.

Concrete is a "catch all" term which can be used for all sorts of different conglomerate/composite materials, the surface could well be a "concrete" consisting of mostly clear glass aggregate with a suitable binder. I'd even believe it if they claimed to have found a combination of ingredients compatible with existing handling/laying equipment and it just rolled out the top layer like a normal road.

[hendorog]

If someone can point me to this mythical "civilized world" where theft and vandalism doesn't occur I'd like to know. Sounds like a nice place.

Yeah, time to buy an airplane ticket. Canada, Australia/NZ, Northern Europe (Russia excluded), Japan... Pretty civilized in my book.

People still get robbed in NZ unfortunately. And Australia is always stealing stuff from NZ so cross them out too... 

[Brumby]

People still get robbed in NZ unfortunately. And Australia is always stealing stuff from NZ so cross them out too... 

We're just trying to get back the stuff that jumped across the ditch somehow....   

[hendorog]

People still get robbed in NZ unfortunately. And Australia is always stealing stuff from NZ so cross them out too... 

We're just trying to get back the stuff that jumped across the ditch somehow....   

 

[ivaylo]

That's not the argument at all, simply it's something that must be taken into consideration. If you leave something of value unsupervised in an area with a lot of people coming through, somebody with nothing better to do will eventually steal it or break it.

Taken in consideration is one thing, don't innovate and make available to everyone is another. Not a fan of solar roadways in any way, just some folks here took it too far.

PS: Aussies an Kiwies are so much alike to the rest of the world that trying to find differences is kinda entertaining actually.

[vk6zgo]

That's not the argument at all, simply it's something that must be taken into consideration. If you leave something of value unsupervised in an area with a lot of people coming through, somebody with nothing better to do will eventually steal it or break it.

Taken in consideration is one thing, don't innovate and make available to everyone is another. Not a fan of solar roadways in any way, just some folks here took it too far.

PS: Aussies an Kiwies are so much alike to the rest of the world that trying to find differences is kinda entertaining actually.

Like Yanks & Canucks!