Author Topic: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!  (Read 290910 times)

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Offline Legit-Design

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #100 on: June 20, 2014, 05:42:12 pm »
Smart weather could be used in conjunction with solar roadways. When solar roadways need cleaning we clean them with remotely controlled smart clouds. Also in the winter we don't let the snow rain on the roads we just rain it somewhere else. No more snow problem on the solar roadways so we don't need to melt all that snow. Use smart weather save energy!  :-+
 

Offline stenor

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #101 on: June 20, 2014, 06:08:14 pm »
This is what I find most depressing about the project. It's not that it's impractical and doomed to fail, it's that taxpayers' real, hard-earned cash, which could have been used to make the world a better place in some way, was allowed to be spent on it.

That's a colossal red flag IMHO. It absolutely screams out that nobody in government, who has the authority to decide where and how money is spent, has enough of a clue to spot BS even when it's so obvious.

It should be a warning to us all. The people whom we entrust with our money are not the best and brightest, they're obviously clueless.

That's what it seems like, yes. They say that the Federal Highway Administration is overseeing their work (engineers and all), giving them funding, etc
Very strange...

Did you consider that the solar roadway guys might just bend the truth "slightly" when they make such statements?

Yes! It's not just that, they needed to bend and twist a lot of things for this to work, obviously. This really a sweet trap for eco-oriented people, devised by a clever psychologist and an imposing, decorated and authoritative figure.

Hopefully something interesting happens later on, at least they could deliver some more realistic ideas.
 

Offline max_torque

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #102 on: June 20, 2014, 06:21:23 pm »
If for a moment, we set aside all the minor (lol) technical and material challenges involved with "Solar Roadways", the bit i am struggling to understand is why you would even want to attempt to make such a thing?

For example, the current major issues with existing solar panels and energy generation from them are:

1) Low total conversion efficiency (only ~25% max efficiency - photons -> electrons)
2) Expensive to make
3) The age badly and are mechanically fragile
4) They only work when the sun is shining, so unless your power network is on a GLOBAL scale, you will always need some energy storage capability or accept that your system will not output at night

The one solar generation "problem" that is not currently a problem is

A) Insufficient space on which to mount solar panels.


So, on which one of those would it be most sensible to spend $2M to find a solution/improvement?


(and that is why "solar roadways" is ridiculous........ ;-)
 

Offline 128er

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #103 on: June 20, 2014, 06:31:08 pm »
Maybe they can collaborate with the russian government. They have many kilometers of roads and are very knowledgeable about good weather :D

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8587725.stm

I have the dumb feeling, that they could persuade some dumb politicians with their solar roadways idea. And millions or billions of taxes could end up in the bin (would not be the first time in Germany for example :palm: ).
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 06:32:55 pm by 128er »
 

Offline Legit-Design

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #104 on: June 20, 2014, 06:36:51 pm »
So, on which one of those would it be most sensible to spend $2M to find a solution/improvement?
(and that is why "solar roadways" is ridiculous........ ;-)
Except they are not trying to find solution/improvement... They already have it!  :-DD

Here is quote from the bottom of their page. Usually every crowdfunding will put this at the bottom of the page...

"We asked for $1 million to hire an initial team of engineers to help us make a few needed tweaks in our product and streamline our process so that we could go from prototype to production. "
They are going into production with this stuff! They are not trying to find any solution, they are directly saying what they will use the money for.

They are not looking for evil mad scientists to make their dreams and hopes to come real.

They are by their own words going to go from prototype to production. They have already spewed out that prototype parking lot, if they had any new real invention that could change the world, they would have already used and showed it to us. They are still using current technology and current material.

Quote
How can your donation help?
We asked for $1 million to hire an initial team of engineers to help us make a few needed tweaks in our product and streamline our process so that we could go from prototype to production. Thanks to your generous donations, we've met and exceeded our goal - thank you so much!

We've posted on our Facebook fan site asking for resumes: 

"Our immediate need is for the following: Mechanical Engineer, Civil Engineer, Structural Engineer, Manufacturing Engineer (Production Specialist), Materials Engineer, and Environmental Engineer. Experience in solar, renewable energy or hydrology a bonus. We also need an experienced CFO."

We plan to begin hiring in June and we're looking for office space to rent in Sandpoint, Idaho. Our initial goal was for a bare bones staff, the minimal amount of design engineers that we estimated would help us make it to production. The additional funds that are being contributed now will allow us hire even more people, which will allow us to move even faster. Also there will be a need for parts, equipment and supplies.

Some of the additional positions on our wish list that that we also may be able to hire (depending on our final total) include: Software Engineers, IT Professionals, Cyber Security experts, etc. 

We feel truly blessed and overwhelmed with the outpouring of support from around the world. The time for Solar Roadways has come, and you each now have a part in it - thank you so very much!
 

Offline elektron

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #105 on: June 20, 2014, 06:43:17 pm »
Dave is convienced solar roadways are BULLSHIT (which they might be) but he also believes
Appolo Program did put a man on the Moon...

quote from video: "believing in something is not enough to make it work" ...


« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 06:59:33 pm by elektron »
 

Offline rob77

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #106 on: June 20, 2014, 06:52:27 pm »
Dave is convienced solar roadways are BULLSHIT (which they might be) but he also believes
Appolo Program did put a man on the Moon...

yes. smell that too!

i know i'll be warned off by the moderators/admins for this... but i couldn't help myself...

Dear Mr. "elektron" could you please be so kind and f**k yourself ? Thank you in advance !

Your sincerely,

Rob77.
 

Offline rolycat

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #107 on: June 20, 2014, 06:52:52 pm »
Dave is convienced solar roadways are BULLSHIT (which they might be) but he also believes
Appolo Program did put a man on the Moon...

yes. smell that too!
I dunno about bullshit, but I certainly smell a troll. Even stinkier.
 

Offline calzap

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #108 on: June 20, 2014, 06:55:51 pm »
can't you angle the LEDs towards oncoming traffic to increase their efficiency?

Yup, they can be angled.  Lights embedded in " roadways" are already common.  Go to any major jet airport at night, and you'll see embedded guide lights in taxiways.  And they are angled.  For two-way traffic, they have to be in sets that face opposite directions.

Dave is right though.  Project as a whole stinks.

Mike in California
 

Offline elektron

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #109 on: June 20, 2014, 06:57:38 pm »
Dave is convienced solar roadways are BULLSHIT (which they might be) but he also believes
Appolo Program did put a man on the Moon...

yes. smell that too!

i know i'll be warned off by the moderators/admins for this... but i couldn't help myself...

Dear Mr. "elektron" could you please be so kind and f**k yourself ? Thank you in advance !

Your sincerely,

Rob77.


dude. i couldn't care less about your reactions, or warnings to admins. so far, you (and others)
are the only ones swearing.
 

Offline rob77

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #110 on: June 20, 2014, 07:00:10 pm »
Dave is convienced solar roadways are BULLSHIT (which they might be) but he also believes
Appolo Program did put a man on the Moon...

yes. smell that too!

i know i'll be warned off by the moderators/admins for this... but i couldn't help myself...

Dear Mr. "elektron" could you please be so kind and f**k yourself ? Thank you in advance !

Your sincerely,

Rob77.


dude. i couldn't care less about your reactions, or warnings to admins. so far, you (and others)
are the only ones swearing.

actually it was intelligence test for you ;) and you failed miserably ;) i'm very sorry for the living beings in your proximity.
 

Offline DJ

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #111 on: June 20, 2014, 07:23:29 pm »
Dave is convienced solar roadways are BULLSHIT (which they might be) but he also believes
Appolo Program did put a man on the Moon...

quote from video: "believing in something is not enough to make it work" ...

If you have evidence or scientific analysis to the contrary (apollo),  by all means, start a thread on it.

This thread is on solar roadways.
 

Offline brims

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #112 on: June 20, 2014, 07:55:22 pm »
I am 100% unconvinced by their claims about surface traction. As a motorcyclist there is no way I would ever ride on a glass road. Even white line paint and man-hole covers are dangerously slippy.

Aside from large oil/diesel spills, little oil drips get absorbed into the tarmac and don't become a problem. On glass they would just build up into an oily film over the whole thing. Lethal.

Add to that their "hexagon traction patches" or whatever they are, and you're screwed. Ever catch a crack with your motorcycle tire? It's quite a pucker moment.
 

Offline Dinsdale

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #113 on: June 20, 2014, 07:57:08 pm »
Quote
Dave is convienced solar roadways are BULLSHIT (which they might be) but he also believes
Appolo Program did put a man on the Moon...
Well, IF Dave said APOLLO put A man on the moon, then he was wrong (but you have to be nitpicking).  Apollo missions put 12 men on the moon.  You can't even spell Apollo.
This can't be happening.
 

Offline LaurenceW

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #114 on: June 20, 2014, 08:03:54 pm »
Hold on, Hold on, I think we are all missing a few basic points, here. Don't all of our current roads work without LED lighting, 24/7? Of course they do - with the aid of PAINTED LINES, and REFLECTORS. Zero power consumption, cheap, very high mtbf. So let's forget the idea of (embedded in the road) LED lighting, right now. That must have been a stupid throw-away line by somebody who hadn't done the math.

So do solar roads make sense, now? No. "G'day mate. We're repairing the sewer/water mains/gas/phone/electricity (how ironic would that last one be??) in the road, so we're gonna be out there with our jack hammers lifting the road. Strewth! those glass splinters sure fly! No woarries, mate, after we're done, you won't know we've been..." erm.

The sad thing is that some people will beleive that this is doable, and when they finally realise it isn't will assume that no solar power can be the answer (when in truth, it wasn't even the question). It's all more misinformation on a topic that's just too important for this treatment.

MUCH better idea - why not just put tried-and-tested solar panels on angled frames, down central reservations and alongside major roads (how about rail lines?), and/or on the verges?

Of course, it's not nearly so sexy, but we should be spending the money on figuring our how to use less energy in the first place, than simply (trying to) make more of the wrong sort, to feed our society.

(Moon-lander deniers - Have you checked with the Russians or Japanese, who have each taken their own hi-res photos of the landing sites? Or are they in on your conspiracy "theory", too? Good grief).

If you don't measure, you don't get.
 

Offline stitch

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #115 on: June 20, 2014, 08:31:12 pm »
Typical green dreaming project.

While we're at it, what's so green about solar when you have to cut down trees so that the sun hits the panels?
 

Offline elektron

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #116 on: June 20, 2014, 09:28:37 pm »
First of all. It is not me to prove they didn't landed on the Moon. You cannot prove a negative.
They need to prove they went and i saw they were helping themselves by kicking people who
asked pertinent but challanging questions. (see the movies with the press conference of armstrong)

Second, Appolo or whatever you spell that is the Pagan god, the sun god, helios or IO. Do the
research and your will understand pretty easily that they use cryptic language to encode
messages (in this case appolo is used for deceiving), so that is how they won the cold war and
pushed companies like IBM / Apple / Microsoft to lead the technology revolution.

Third, I do speak your imperial language - english (which spreaded across the planet like a virus),
whereas i can't assume any of you passes the beginner's test for any other foreign language (with
the rare exceptions of course)

And last but not least: this ideea with solar roadways is by far the most idiotic thought an american
is hit when he / she contemplates the disastrous state their roads are in, but ...  if i remember
correctly: dave preached here something like: "one child, one idea can change the world".

So maybe the leds will be altogether forgoten. Or maybe there will be used for paving the alleys
in parks .. However that be, the idea needs exploring, learning and actually see if it feasable or not.

« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 09:33:09 pm by elektron »
 

Offline MindBender

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #117 on: June 20, 2014, 09:45:15 pm »
You're right Dave, the idea doesn't make much sense when adding up the numbers, no matter how much we want it to work. But I have to make a little remark on de LEDs: When manufacturing LEDs in large enough numbers, they can be designed with a custom radiation pattern to direct the output in a more suitable pattern. Alternatively an external lens or light guide could be used, or even integrated into the glass. But that's still not enough to make it highly visible in daylight conditions.

You were too generous with your numbers on another field: Roads are usually filled with cars. At least for 10% during daytime. And electrically heating a road to thaw any ice on it is sheer madness.

Then there's still wear and damage; A truck blowing a tire will break at least 200 meters worth of panels, trying to stop while driving on its rim. That will cost a small fortune to repair. Just like water creeping in cracks and freezing up, already destroying regular tarmac.
 

Offline gildasd

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #118 on: June 20, 2014, 09:48:56 pm »
First of all. It is not me to prove they ...negative feedback blabla... feasable or not.

I've read all your posts, all of them negative, most aggressive/looking for a fight (while implying it's ALWAYS the the other party who does), are you sure you are not confusing this with the Youtube comments section?

I'm a new here too (we were EEVblog born at similar times). I've been watching Dave's videos for 6 months and find them very useful and accessible.
For the theoretical splitting flies butt hair lengthwise faffing around, I ask my professors or consult the Wildi.
What was your motivation to join? I came here for help on electronics and the friendly banter. You're kinda getting in the way of both.

You're not happy here, why stay?

(Mods - if you find this too personal, please delete)
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 10:20:52 pm by gildasd »
I'm electronically illiterate
 

Offline gildasd

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #119 on: June 20, 2014, 09:55:59 pm »
... A truck blowing a tire will break at least 200 meters worth of panels, trying to stop while driving on its rim...

I used to do  Speed-skating racing on roads for a few years at a pretty good level (until a unrelated bicycle crash snapped my leg) and we are/were totally dependent on the road surface.

So we tended to check all the critical places before races and you'd be amazed at how even "super smooth" road are gouged!
Someone must be dragging crushed cars up and down roads in the dead o f night :)
I'm electronically illiterate
 

Offline TheWelly888

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #120 on: June 20, 2014, 10:08:19 pm »
Thanks Dave, I enjoyed all 4 of Thunderf00t's videos debunking solar roadways! My favourite is the claimed military application!  :-DD
You can do anything with the right attitude and a hammer.
 

Offline Zad

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #121 on: June 20, 2014, 10:24:25 pm »
Have they explained why they don't just mount these on houses or (better still) public buildings and factories? No requirements for lighting, or ultra high durability encapsulation, minimal degradation, and no need to remove them for access to utilities.

Offline s_lannan

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #122 on: June 20, 2014, 10:26:29 pm »
 :palm:
I wouldn't buy a fire extinguisher off the people who dreamed up this bullshit even if I was on fire.
 

Offline Tothwolf

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #123 on: June 20, 2014, 11:05:40 pm »
What happens when I drop a load binder or tow chain on one of these surfaces and then drive over it? ;)

Dave, love the video, but one minor correction... The standard voltage in the US isn't 110V.

Single phase 3-wire (the ground/earth wire isn't counted) AC voltage in the US for household and light commercial is 120V between the hot and neutral conductors (neutral is tied to ground/earth at the main electric panel) and 240V between the two hot conductors. With this system, smaller loads use 120V while larger loads usually use 240V. Streetlights in the US also tend to use 240V.

Another common system is three phase 4-wire 120/208V where 120V is present between hot and neutral and 208V is present between hot conductors. In many commercial buildings, three phase 277/480V and 347/600V are also common.

Realistically, I don't see why they couldn't design their stuff to use higher and more transmission efficient voltages.

That said, maybe they should look into high frequency AC, where the conductors could be kept smaller and the losses would be less? You could even use copper plated aluminum or copper plated steel conductors. Of course with high frequency AC you can then start to get into all kinds of RF issues...

To deal with the LED viewing angle issue, perhaps they could pair two LEDs back to back at about a 60 degree angle under the glass surface?

Rather than use LEDs for entire lines, it seems like it might make more sense to use a more traditional painted line and instead use LEDs in place of the nighttime reflectors that they commonly glue down on roadways. Still, how would they provide the bumps that those reflectors also provide? Those bumps are there to provide physical indication (in addition to a visual indicator) that you are driving over them.

Meh... This thing is still a gilded turd and I don't see how they can possibly make it work.

While I don't see these things being suitable for roadways, I wonder if they could design something one could tile an entire roof with that could stand up to hailstones?
 

Offline Legit-Design

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Re: EEVblog #632 - Solar Roadways Are BULLSHIT!
« Reply #124 on: June 21, 2014, 12:32:19 am »
Have they explained why they don't just mount these on houses or (better still) public buildings and factories? No requirements for lighting, or ultra high durability encapsulation, minimal degradation, and no need to remove them for access to utilities.
Are you trying to say mount them like normal solar panels that actually work ok for that purpose?
They got the 850K$ for building road surface that will pay for itself over the course of it's lifetime. That is what they are directly saying, they must have presented some form of rough idea how they were going to achieve that. Now we are seeing that prototype surface as the result. All they had to do is make it work somehow. Since they probably have now only calculations that can be easily twisted to make them favorable, I think they have might have succeeded in getting to that goal. But they must be literally pulling every string to have any chance of getting there. There is a reason they are comparing normal road surface maintenance costs and saying it's expensive, because they must have just written those off as their "savings". Penny saved is penny earned. It doesn't change anything that they are saying they can do all these amazing stuff with microcontrollers, those are there just to sidetrack people and make them think there is actually something into this. Maybe it's sensory overload when your brain starts firing and soon all you can think is "shut up and take my money" didn't they say they are "engineering couple" he is engineer and wife is therapist or something? Maybe she is more like a brain engineer?  :-DD Using peoples own brains against them, this equivalent of bully hitting your face with your own hand.
 


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