Author Topic: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown  (Read 24479 times)

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Offline saturation

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2011, 03:46:29 pm »
If Fluke gives no recommendation, the ASTM estimated shelf life [ i.e., just left in storage conditions] can be used assuming they are not subject to wear such as abrasive forces [ i.e., like used as seals in pistons] or harsh environments like sunlight, ozone, or other chemicals.

http://www.oringsusa.com/html/shelf_life.html

If you're not sure of the material, most low cost general purpose o rings are buna-n types.

For the Fluke 28II it looks like its in near ideal conditions for o-ring lifespan, ~ 15 years.


Quote
waterproofing o-ring


Is there any info about the time frame that those o-ring should be replaced , or serviced ?


Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2011, 12:28:45 pm »
Thanks S. for the tip .

It looks that there is no reason to puzzle my self about it. ( o ring )

But I found a new puzzle ...  ;D

It looks that the continuity response from the latest version of the 28II that I got,
to not be that fast, as is in the video of Dave.

I cleaned the leads, but no improvement, my other though are to check the batteries condition.
If the not topped batteries , has an negative effect in the speed of the continuity response ,
is something that i need to find out, so to stop thinking about it.  :)

 
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 12:34:27 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline saturation

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2011, 01:30:37 pm »
You're welcome K.  A problem with failing O rings is that when the O ring finally fails, you'll notice it when the internals of the device it protects also gets wet, and it could ruin the gear.

Since most DMM aren't as waterproof as the 28II, this issue doesn't concern most of us.  But it would pay to find a source for the o rings and change them every 7 years,  that's hard to remember!  What I do with my marine grade gear is write the expire date on thin scotch tape placed on inside of the battery case to protect it from water and the environment.  Then change the tape and put a new date when you get a new o ring.  Since the batteries will last a long time but unlikely more than a typical battery shelf life of 5 years, you'll see the date every battery change, to remind you, and still give you a large margin of safety.

Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2011, 03:16:53 pm »
Additional info about continuity response :

Well the truth is that I got fooled , because I did my continuity test on the diode mode,
and not at the ohms range !!
At the ohms range the continuity response are lightning  fast as shown on Daves video.

What it was not shown on the video, was how the display back light works out in total darkness,
and this info is useful to the electricians who works at dark cabinets ,
or they work with auxiliary lighting , so to repair the main lighting system !!

The amazing part , are that the buttons on it,  has their own back light,
and so in total darkness are both visible and usable  (display + buttons).  :)

Picture

   
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2011, 03:56:01 pm »
Well the truth is that I got fooled , because I did my continuity test on the diode mode,
and not at the ohms range !!
luckily you didnt get fooled (or killed?) by measuring V on A range ;D just a joke
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2011, 04:59:18 pm »
Well the truth is that I got fooled , because I did my continuity test on the diode mode,
and not at the ohms range !!
luckily you didnt get fooled (or killed?) by measuring V on A range ;D just a joke


Well its harder to get killed in Europe , we do not have high voltage sources of 600V or 1000V in our industry . :P
 

Offline turkey1987

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2011, 11:43:16 pm »
Hello,

Has anyone tried with their Fluke 28 II to do a continuity test (with continuity beeper) and the backlight on max (second brightness)?

When I do this with mine, it seems to get a low battery alarm (small battery icon in the top corner)

I am using standard akaline batteries, which measure 1.588vdc.

I have tried using a brand new set which measure 1.613vdc


I was just wondering if anyone else has experienced this problem?

Also to note, I returned my meter cause of this problem and the new meter reproduces the same problem.

 

Offline cuban8

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2011, 08:58:57 am »
Yup, same here with a new set of batteries.
Doesn't affect the function of the meter, so I don't really care.
 

Offline turkey1987

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2011, 09:11:38 am »
Yup, my meter seems to function properly and have not had any problems with it.

I was just curious to see if this is a common issue, or possibly a bad batch on my part.


My next test is to use the energizer lithiums, which naturally have a higher voltage then the akalines

Have no idea yet, will have a look.

Thanks
« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 09:04:11 pm by turkey1987 »
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2011, 11:09:16 am »
Hello,

Has anyone tried with their Fluke 28 II to do a continuity test (with continuity beeper) and the backlight on max (second brightness)?

When I do this with mine, it seems to get a low battery alarm (small battery icon in the top corner)

I tested my 28II, in both ohms and Diode mode.
With the back light on ,
and I have to say that there is not present, this minor software glitch.
And so it behaves as expected.

I have still inside the batteries that came with it from the factory .

The truth is, that the meter that I own , came to me directly from the Fluke factory (USA),
about seven months back.
And so it is an very fresh batch.  

If it bothers you that much, send it to Fluke,
they will do their best, so to help you.  :)

( But it will take 2-3 weeks until to get it back)  ( Europe )

« Last Edit: May 08, 2011, 11:14:10 am by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline turkey1987

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2011, 10:39:19 pm »

Hello,

Just as a comparison,

My meter works fine in ohms and diode test. Each work fine on their own. Backlight max by itself and continuity beeper test by itself.

But the problem only arises when I activate both beeper (ohms then press continuity beeper mode) and max backlight.
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2011, 01:37:13 am »
Yes , I did follow your instructions about the sequence :

1) Range switch to Ohms
2) Activating beeper
3) Back light display to level 2.
4) testing continuity ( random contacts of the leads )

And there is no problem , works as it should.
The battery indicator does not show up.   (  There is no low battery alarm )

And my advice to you are to use your warranty plan.
So to send the 28II back to Fluke, for inspection.

Regards ..  



  
« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 01:43:41 am by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline turkey1987

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2011, 01:45:24 am »
Hello,

I have spoken to fluke and my supplier,

They have tested, their fluke 28 stock and they seem to have the same problem and are investigating at the moment.

Also to note, this is my second fluke 28.

But thank-you for the comparison, I don't mean any disrespect.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 02:03:28 am by turkey1987 »
 

Offline turkey1987

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #38 on: May 09, 2011, 05:54:39 am »

Hello Kiriakos-GR ,

Out of curiosity, what brand of AA batteries are you using?

And are they standard akaline?

Possibly fluke put lithium batteries in yours ?

Its okay if you have never opened your meter and you dont know, dont open it on my regard

Thankyou
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #39 on: May 09, 2011, 12:29:39 pm »
There was no way to help you , or any one else,  with out opening the DMM.  :)

Even so they are common AA Alkaline's .
Brand : Energizer
Type :  LR6 - AM3 1.5V

They are made in USA ( St. Louis )

Expiration date : 03-2017

That's it .. nothing magic or special on them.

Enjoy the view ..  :)

Just tested the batteries with my professional battery tester ( with load) .
Cell 1 = 90% = 1.45 v
Cell 2 = 90% = 1.45 v
Cell 3 = 80% = 1.44 v

Active since 7/10/10   d/m/y
« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 12:48:52 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline turkey1987

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2011, 08:57:21 pm »

Thank-you for your help,

Well I have reached a point where I must wait for fluke to decide.

I have been asked where does it say energizer lithium batteries for mining approval.

I just looked it up, but I think iam wrong. It says energizer e91, on the rear of the 28. Which I thought was the code for lithium, but possibly could just be the standard alkaline battery. So a correction on my behalf.

Thank-you

 

Offline gobblegobble

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #41 on: May 09, 2011, 10:19:19 pm »
I just looked it up, but I think iam wrong. It says energizer e91, on the rear of the 28. Which I thought was the code for lithium, but possibly could just be the standard alkaline battery.

E91 is DIN term for AA alkaline cell unless I'm mistaken. Energizer's Lithium cells are L91, close but still as far as A3 is from M3 (for those who like car references). :D
 

Offline turkey1987

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2011, 12:01:29 am »
I would much prefer an M3 :)

But Yup thanks for the correction.

 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #43 on: May 10, 2011, 08:40:12 am »
Hey  @turkey1987 ,
I have for you one last question ,
do you have handy the first 5 digits of your serial code ? ( in total 8 )

I need that, just of curiosity .. 

 

Offline turkey1987

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #44 on: May 10, 2011, 11:17:29 pm »
Hey Kiriakos-GR,

I have sent you a pm.

Regards

 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2011, 12:40:03 am »
Today I discovered one true inconvenience or issue ,
That it must be noted to FLUKE.


At the Ohms range  0-600 Ohm  ( manual range )
If you activate the High Resolution ( 20.000 counts ),
If you try to measure any resistor that is more than 199 Ohm ,
The DMM shows in the screen  OL  and the bar graph goes to full .
Exactly the same indication, as it does when you do not perform any measurement at all in Ohms range .

This could easily fool you, and make you to believe, that you have at hand one bad resistor !!!

Maybe is just only me, who believes that this is an inconvenience or issue,
But what I would call as logical , would be, that at the end of the road of the 20.000 counts in the manual modes,
It should described with any other symbols than the OL .

I can hardly call as Bonus, that at the named  0- 600  Ohm range the DMM can read as max  650 Ohm at the normal resolution.


Another one called as inconvenience or issue,
Could be one detail that I found today ,
By reading one Application Note ( PDF) of Fluke named as : Low ohms measurements you can trust
It describes how to make one quick test to ohms range , so to verify that your meter reads accurate Ohms.

The Fluke 87 has an internal 1K precision resistor.
Test your meter against this by connecting a test lead from the V-ohms jack to the
microA/A jack while the meter is in Ohms mode.
Don’t forget to zero out that test lead, first —simply put the lead between the
v-ohms and COM jacks and press the Relative button .


http://www.myflukestore.com/crm_uploads/low_ohms_measurements_you_can_trust.pdf

Ok , so far so good , but if I zero out the leads , the relative mode will stop the auto ranging .
If I zero out with auto ranging at  0-600 Ohms, there is no way to measure 1K , I will get OL !!
The same OL that I get with disconnected leads !!

As long the 87V and 28II, are totally identical, they share the same issues in Ohms range.

And so, yes FLUKE you have to do something about that,
And update – rewrite  your documents too.
  
« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 08:38:27 am by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline saturation

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2011, 03:03:03 pm »
I see that that's unfortunately what to expect though.  At normal resolution its 6000 count, at high resolution its 20000 count, so when switched to this mode its maximum reading is 199.99 in the 600 ohm scale.

The Fluke 87V does this stuff too in any range besides ohms, such as volts, and it switches immediately to manual mode, although you can force it to auto at hi resolution.

Note, the 87V spec sheet states the accuracy is unchanged since the uncertainty of the last floating digit increases 10X when using 20,000 count, so that last digit is no better than the low resolution mode.  However, in practice, it is accurate when its stable when I compare it against the HP 3456a.  So use the extra resolution with a grain of salt.


Today I discovered one true inconvenience or issue ,
That it must be noted to FLUKE.

..

As long the 87V and 28II, are totally identical, they share the same issues in Ohms range.
..
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #47 on: May 13, 2011, 06:45:59 pm »
Well I could live happily by knowing from the start the limitations of the 20.000 counts on both 87V & 28II .
( If they was on paper ,  as NOTE about the 20.000 counts resolution )

But I do get partially upset , when I find out about them, by my self !!

Examples :
1) The 199 ohms at the 600 scale  ( OL indication with out measuring ... OL again at the end of the 20.000 counts  (200 ohms? ) = confusion
2) On DC after the 20V, the High resolution goes normally off , but in order to get active again , the voltage must drop to 16V  and not to 19V !!
3) The display refresh rate at the 20.000 counts, are limited to one time per second !!  ( Normal resolution = four times )

Is those findings critical ? so to upset an new buyer ?

Yes and No.

Yes .. if you are an electronics engineer.
No .. If you are an Industrial Electrician , who will consider the amount of counts ,
as one less important function.

I stand in the middle of the two world's , like touchy electronics and industrial motors ,
and probably this is why it bothers me.   ;D

About the 28 II , even after those nags of my , I still consider it as top meter .
An true honest companion, accurate and hard to be killed.  ;)

But the throne of 87V , it is not that secure.

 

Offline saturation

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #48 on: May 13, 2011, 07:05:46 pm »
Yes, K, this is the point were Agilent DMM can move in !

Well I could live happily by knowing from the start the limitations of the 20.000 counts on both 87V & 28II .
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: EEVblog #64 – Fluke 28 Series II Multimeter Review & Teardown
« Reply #49 on: May 13, 2011, 07:57:55 pm »
Hi S.

Personally I do not care, who does plans to move in.  
Trust and confidence , needs years to be build ed.
( and I count about 14 months, since the time that I touched something branded as Fluke)

And now I will say something, that helps my psychology as professional ,
when ever I feel irritated about the above issues, on those Fluke DMM's,
I just watch the 100$ shootout video ..
And I am saying to my self ... Thanks God that I do not have any of them. !!   :D  
 


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