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EEVblog => EEVblog Specific => Topic started by: EEVblog on September 27, 2014, 12:47:06 am

Title: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: EEVblog on September 27, 2014, 12:47:06 am
Dave shows how to upgrade an Agilent/Keysight 6643A/6642A/6641A system dc power supply to have front panel binding posts.
Sense lines are added to improve the high current accuracy.
Operation Manual: http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5964-8267.pdf (http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5964-8267.pdf)
Service Manual + Schematic: http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5959-3376.pdf (http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5959-3376.pdf)

Auction Score video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peRJtgfn-Lw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peRJtgfn-Lw)

EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgVsW4-cfh0#ws)
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: Jebnor on September 27, 2014, 02:53:36 am
In the schematic it looked like there were two pins for the binding posts, which I now realize are for the two pins of the spade lug.  Still, could something like these  dual binding posts (http://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/6884/501-1713-ND/737884) fit?   Two of the pairs could be used, one for each + and -. 5 Posts on the front, one of each pair being the Power, the other the sense line and Ground. In this manner you could have front panel remote sense if you like.
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: EEVblog on September 27, 2014, 03:37:27 am
I thought about adding front panel sense connectors also, and might do that on my next unit. But then you have to have some semi-permanent jumpers in place for regular 2 wire use. Or a switch. Pros and cons.
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: kingofkya on September 27, 2014, 05:04:35 am
What about some scrap pcb then drill and epoxy it to the back of the front panel it would give you a solid base to work with.

Tin snips work great for cutting pcb down down to size:)
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: RobB on September 27, 2014, 05:20:24 am
Hack.... yes that just about covers it Dave. 
The title should more correctly read 'Lets just poke a couple of holes in the front panel of a high class power supply and half arse hang some cheap binding posts on the front.'
With respect Dave, you may be a wiz with the electronic side but you have no aptitude or empathy with anything mechanical. Where's the pride in a job well done? The guys at Agilent must be cringing right now.
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: Monittosan on September 27, 2014, 05:59:03 am
Here you go dave this is what the binding post option looks like.
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: SeanB on September 27, 2014, 06:27:39 am
Can you imagine a design with Dave doing the electronics and Robrenz doing the mechanical side, with Mike as the software and UI designer.

Won't be cheap, but will work for decades.
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: AlfBaz on September 27, 2014, 06:54:48 am
Can you imagine a design with Dave doing the electronics and Robrenz doing the mechanical side, with Mike as the software and UI designer.

Won't be cheap, but will work for decades.
Once it's finished that is!  >:D
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: SeanB on September 27, 2014, 07:30:53 am
2 against one will get the electronics done, even if they have to fly to crack the whip.
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: HP-ILnerd on September 27, 2014, 07:41:01 am
with Mike as the software and UI designer.


You didn't hear Mike on the Amp Hour, did you?   ;D

These Hack/Upgrade episodes are interesting.  There was the Mantis hack, the Hakko hack, the Counter upgrade...any others?
Mike had an interesting one where he hacked a PSU to upgrade it.
It's interesting what you can do if you don't mind voiding the warranty!
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: SeanB on September 27, 2014, 07:56:23 am
I did...... But he does know a lot about getting the UI usable ( sorry Dave) and how to spec code to work well with the hardware side.
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: Kernel on September 27, 2014, 08:05:16 am
So no video #666  :palm:
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: EEVblog on September 27, 2014, 08:06:12 am
With respect Dave, you may be a wiz with the electronic side but you have no aptitude or empathy with anything mechanical. Where's the pride in a job well done?

Sometimes I want that, other times I'm happy just to make do with what I have available.
And in this case I'll likely go back either install a backing plate (I haven't epoxied it) when I get a chance.
I was actually going to hold off on this video half way through until I ordered some bigger connectors, but decided to just get the video finished instead so that was done and dusted.

You want pride in a job well done mechanically, try this:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/eevblog/sets/72157645262858908/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/eevblog/sets/72157645262858908/)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/eevblog/sets/72157645263432179/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/eevblog/sets/72157645263432179/)
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: HP-ILnerd on September 27, 2014, 08:09:23 am
I did...... But he does know a lot about getting the UI usable ( sorry Dave) and how to spec code to work well with the hardware side.


Granted, but then you'll recall he said he likes doing embedded software, but you tasked him with the bit he has said he likes to do least (UI).
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: HP-ILnerd on September 27, 2014, 08:11:58 am
Gorgeous deck, Dave!
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: SeanB on September 27, 2014, 08:18:20 am
Nice with reusing old flooring, here it typically is throw away as it will be riddled with borer, which would be the only reason to replace it. You have to have a certificate that the borer is eradicated before you are allowed to take it to the dump, so often it is cut up and burnt on site instead. There is a market for used flooring in good condition, used to repair existing ones. My floor is parquet but because of the borer damage it has been filled and covered with carpet and vinyl. Too expensive to rip out, as it is stuck down with bitumen, and too much to replace piece wise to get it looking good again.

BTW nice bricklaying, that is hard work to do. I was "volunteered" to do an acre or so of that during training, using reject brick loads from a brick factory. Never had to cut a brick, you could always find an odd shape to fill the hole. Underlay was brick dust.
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: David Hess on September 27, 2014, 10:19:52 am
I thought about adding front panel sense connectors also, and might do that on my next unit. But then you have to have some semi-permanent jumpers in place for regular 2 wire use. Or a switch. Pros and cons.

They make special purpose shorting bars just for this:

http://www.newark.com/pomona/4115/shorting-bar-for-binding-posts/dp/20H0132 (http://www.newark.com/pomona/4115/shorting-bar-for-binding-posts/dp/20H0132)
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on September 27, 2014, 10:47:06 am
These Cliff CL159705 posts are a much better solution- the base clamps both sides of the panel giving a very solid fixing.
They also fit Xantrex PSUs, though the wisdom of screw terminal son this particular PSU may be slightly quesitonable... :scared:
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: SeanB on September 27, 2014, 11:40:44 am
Well, so long as you take care, and use insulated connectors to connect they will be fine, no exposed metal that will fail a 'standard finger' test unless you undo the nuts. 600V is not going to arc over that separation.
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: Towger on September 27, 2014, 01:31:03 pm
What about some scrap pcb then drill and epoxy it to the back of the front panel it would give you a solid base to work with.

I was shouting that out when Dave was going at the panel with the scissors...  Dave, good job you did not show how the back of the posts in the unit.  :palm:
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: Excavatoree on September 27, 2014, 02:23:52 pm
This is an example of when having a basic, even "less than basic" mechanical shop facility would come in handy.  (mentioned when Dave was considering re-locating)

A simple jig-saw with metal blade and a drill press would have allowed Dave to cut a small metal plate on which to mount the binding posts.  The plate could have been secured to the three "corner" holes that Dave showed.  Then the decal would have had to have been pulled back, yadda yadda maybe that's all too much but it would have been more secure without having to use epoxy, which makes binding post replacement more difficult.

Just a thought.  What Dave did was no doubt functional enough.   I guess I'm not above some mechanical "lilly gilding." 
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: kmel on September 27, 2014, 05:57:03 pm
These Cliff CL159705 posts are a much better solution- the base clamps both sides of the panel giving a very solid fixing.
For reference... your message (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/agilent-6632b-power-supplies/msg195395/#msg195395) in this older Agilent 6632B front terminals mod thread (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/agilent-6632b-power-supplies).

I have a 6632B and a 66332A which are ready for modding, if there is a nice mechanical solution.
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: dr.diesel on September 27, 2014, 08:49:47 pm
Gonna have to dig my 6643A out, finally get around to fixing it.  Goes into OVP and clamps on power up, even with output disabled.    |O
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: dentaku on September 28, 2014, 01:43:14 am
What about just using some simple plastic washers to cover those big holes so you can tighten the binding posts down properly? It doesn't need to be a square backing plate.
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: Excavatoree on September 28, 2014, 02:45:36 am
What about just using some simple plastic washers to cover those big holes so you can tighten the binding posts down properly? It doesn't need to be a square backing plate.

Because the front panel is plastic,  it might (and I stress "might") not hold up to the forces around the binding posts.  By using a metal plate, fixed by the three mounting holes, that force is distributed over a wider area.  However, if one is gentle with it, the washers would work.    Remember, I said it would be "gilding the lilly," not that it was a necessity.

I wonder what Agilent's design is?
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: miguelvp on September 28, 2014, 03:21:24 am
I wonder what Agilent's design is?

I believe the picture in reply #5 from Monittosan:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-667-agilent-6643a-power-supply-binding-post-hack/msg520401/#msg520401 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-667-agilent-6643a-power-supply-binding-post-hack/msg520401/#msg520401)

Shows the Agilent's options:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-667-agilent-6643a-power-supply-binding-post-hack/?action=dlattach;attach=110475;image)

Edit: But Dave's mod also gives you mains earth as well.

Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: EEVblog on September 28, 2014, 06:53:45 am
This is an example of when having a basic, even "less than basic" mechanical shop facility would come in handy.  (mentioned when Dave was considering re-locating)

Yes. At present I don't even have a drill in the lab.
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: SeanB on September 28, 2014, 07:21:46 am
Not even a cordless one? I had so many I resorted to giving the least loved 4 away, so that I only have around 5 basic drills and a rotary hammer now. One was still new in box, it came as a kit with a planer and a tool soft case for no more than the planer itself. I wanted the tool case and the planer, power planing is a lot better than sitting with a Skil saw and a plane to fit doors, especially if you have to trim 5mm off each side.
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: phamuc on September 28, 2014, 12:26:56 pm
Hello Dave,

I have made this mod to my HP power supply, that I picked up off ebay.
The banana binding post I also picked up from ebay from a Chinese company. These binding post are standard dual binding post.
I did not have to mod the panel, (no drilling), only cut the thin plastic cover foil. These post fit like a glove. No I have not added the mod to the sense lines, but could add a second set of posts, to give me front panel access to output and sense and still have room for a ground post. HP seems to used a generic base front panel for bench power supplies and Multimeters, just stick the right custom foil on. The post have the standard spacing, the same as a DMM. (and strangely the same spacing as an Euro plug!)
I have crimped and then soldered the lugs on, not solder then crimped, you are only asking for trouble  ???. Dave, why do you not like soldered lugs? I have experienced that just crimp lugs, the wire can and does sometimes come loose, but not crimped and soldered lugs. In my HP supply, the connector on the PCB, for the front panel assy.  was already mounted, I just had to add the cable harness with the correct plug for the PCB connector.

Oh, and the Fluke meters and HP power supply I bought on a buying spree on ebay, after watching some of  Dave's excellence videos on YouTube. My wife thanks you very much Dave  ;)

The Dummy loads are H4 car headlights. What else do you with blowen normal beam light but the Hi-Beam light part is still good?
Throw them away...NOooo.

Dave are going to be at electronica this year?

-Paul

(http://IMG_0287.JPG)
(http://IMG_0275.JPG)
(http://IMG_0232.JPG)
(http://IMG_0233.JPG)
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: mgebha on September 28, 2014, 04:09:27 pm
About a year ago I also added binding posts to my HP6632Bs: They now do have 5 connectors (+/-, sense +/-, mains earth) and a little switch for directly connecting the sense wires to the output: http://www.jave.de/blog2/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/front_diagonal.jpg (http://www.jave.de/blog2/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/front_diagonal.jpg)

In order not to completely destroy the decent look of the front panel, I also have designed a label. It can be printed using any photo printing service as 10cm x 15cm photo: http://www.jave.de/blog2/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/10x15_hp6632b.jpg (http://www.jave.de/blog2/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/10x15_hp6632b.jpg).

You can read the complete report of this hack in my little blog at http://www.jave.de/blog2/?p=199 (http://www.jave.de/blog2/?p=199).
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: AndyC_772 on September 28, 2014, 06:49:50 pm
I didn't fancy punching holes in the equipment at all, so I mounted the binding posts in a separate box and attached it to the rack mount ears.

(http://www.andrewcawte.webspace.virginmedia.com/IMG_7839.JPG)
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: hammy on September 28, 2014, 10:33:43 pm
What about some scrap pcb then drill and epoxy it to the back of the front panel it would give you a solid base to work with.

I was shouting that out when Dave was going at the panel with the scissors...  Dave, good job you did not show how the back of the posts in the unit.  :palm:

Me too!  :D
Especially because he owns a 3D printer and it is easy possible to print a matching carrier material to hold these posts ...  :palm:

But it is his HP unit. He can do whatever he want ...  :-X
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: Riotpack on September 29, 2014, 12:25:19 am
It does the job, no need for it to be perfect. I would have a LED near the front binding posts to show when remote sense was switched on rather than have to look around the back or measure under a load to be sure.
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: EEVblog on September 29, 2014, 03:16:58 am
It does the job, no need for it to be perfect. I would have a LED near the front binding posts to show when remote sense was switched on rather than have to look around the back or measure under a load to be sure.

Yeah, good point.
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: djacobow on September 29, 2014, 03:38:01 am
Despite his protestations about not being bothered, Halfway through the video I was 100% sure there was no chance Dave was actually going to re-assemble that power supply without bringing the sense line to the front.

There were just too many digits of voltage accuracy goodness to let drop on the floor!
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: SArepairman on September 29, 2014, 04:46:14 am
I did a binding post hack on mine recently.

(http://s30.postimg.org/hiuda7567/DSC_0079.jpg)

My approach was a bit different (I'm using glue, I don't have any serious tools in my house). And I had no binding posts on hand.

As soon as everything sets I will install it on the front panel. I love that this hack was brought up, my 6643 was collecting dust.

Andy_C, I don't like your mod. It is easy to knock it off, it is a potential safety issue, the wire could get snagged.

edit: glue is set, it works great, can hold banana plug just fine.
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: poundy on September 29, 2014, 06:12:54 am
What about some scrap pcb then drill and epoxy it to the back of the front panel it would give you a solid base to work with.

I was shouting that out when Dave was going at the panel with the scissors...  Dave, good job you did not show how the back of the posts in the unit.  :palm:

Me too!  :D
Especially because he owns a 3D printer and it is easy possible to print a matching carrier material to hold these posts ...  :palm:

But it is his HP unit. He can do whatever he want ...  :-X
The 3d printer was what I first yelled at the screen hoping he'd hear.  Print some dinky inserts and that'd be 86.4% better than a random hole like that :)
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: RupertGo on September 29, 2014, 03:26:04 pm
It's standard irregular verb conjugation, in this case of the verb 'to mod'.

I implement an appropriate engineering solution given time and resources
You bodge that one up a bit, you do know epoxy isn't a liquid bolt, right?
They make a real how-ya-doin' pig's ear of an arse of that one. Shocking.

Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: wreeve on October 20, 2014, 02:49:11 pm
Apparently you can use these PSU's as a DC programmable load (to sink current) to 25% of their rated current. Might be worth a quick video to demo this Dave? I am awaiting my eBay purchase of the 20v 10amp version to use for this purpose!
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: simingx on October 23, 2014, 09:05:40 am
Apparently you can use these PSU's as a DC programmable load (to sink current) to 25% of their rated current. Might be worth a quick video to demo this Dave? I am awaiting my eBay purchase of the 20v 10amp version to use for this purpose!

Simply set the output voltage to something below your expected input (or just 0V), and set the current limit to whatever you want to sink from the external source...
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: sprocket on November 05, 2014, 12:42:11 pm
Just picked up the Agilent 6653A from an auction of surplus equipment from Cobham satcom. Paid a tad over 600dollars which was a bit more then what I wanted too, but equipment like this very very seldom gets put up for sale here in Denmark, and when they do, it is very overpriced.   People are still trying to flog off old phillips 50Mhz analog scopes for +500 bucks on our local version of Ebay.. bloody insane. And further more I can pick it up in my home town, I really dislike buying expensive stuff over ze interwebs. Too many scammers around.

I will definitely be doing this modification to this PSU.
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: lausvi on January 01, 2015, 03:33:28 pm
I didn't fancy punching holes in the equipment at all, so I mounted the binding posts in a separate box and attached it to the rack mount ears.

I didn't either.
As I have no rack to mount my 6632B, I 3D-modeled the rack mount ear and put the posts into there. Cables are routed to the back of the unit. Looks pretty nice and is completely reversible. I made a version with 3-posts (mains earth on the panel) too but ended up using the two-post version as the posts would block access to the mounting scews and I didn't want to make a too close fit to get all stuffed in.

This was my first serious attempt to model and 3D-print anything actually usable so it took at least seven revisions and several fails to make the final product  :-/O

It doesn't show in the pics, but there are also sense-wires going behing the thick wires.

If somebody wants to have the SkechUp model for this, please PM me.
Title: Re: EEVblog #667 - Agilent 6643A Power Supply Binding Post Hack
Post by: kjn4685 on January 04, 2015, 02:04:17 am
Great job on the deck. Looks professional and well constructed.  Again good job