Author Topic: EEVblog #668 - Mailbag + FLIR TG165  (Read 25982 times)

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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #668 - Mailbag + FLIR TG165
« Reply #50 on: October 01, 2014, 10:12:50 am »
I think when Flir say automatic shutter they may be referring to the Lepton's automatic nonuniform correction, which relies on the fact that as a handheld unit, the scene is moving, so the long-term avarage of local pixels will be the same, and can be used to do nonuniformity correction.
I don't see a reason why it would need a shutter with the thermopile there as well, especailly as AFIR there was no indication of the min/max temps of the visible temp scale, so the Lepton is used for sighting only.

There's only one way to be sure - take it apaaaaart!

Wonder if FLIR is going to be shipping you , or if they were less than impressed by your shenanigens with the flirone  :-DD
Flir have no problem at all with my F1 stuff (message from the very top). I may even be getting a few Leptons from them....
:-+  Good to see a company thats not turning all Golem from LoTR about their precious hardware and trying to tell you what you can and cant do with it.  (Like every other consumer hardware company... phones, TVs, gaming consoles, etc...  Tell me how HDCP provides me a benefit, or encrypted bootloaders and other shenanigans that (try to ) prevent people from putting new OS on xboxes as media centers and the like... )

Hopfully you can find some artist/organization to bankroll a big installation with a few dozen/hundreds of the thermal imagers.  :)
Absolutely, though unless the price drops, chances are they'll be Seek Thermal....
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Offline eneuro

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Re: EEVblog #668 - Mailbag + FLIR TG165
« Reply #51 on: October 01, 2014, 04:28:50 pm »
Absolutely, though unless the price drops, chances are they'll be Seek Thermal....
Probably with Seek Thermal without additional digital camera synchronized with thermal forget about aka Flir MSX edge/contoures addition in software and one will get only thermal image similar to this one on the left - blobs of temperature colors without scene edges/contours which looks not so great for 500$ TG165, but competitors I hope will add visual camera to thermal one soon, if this is not limited by some stupid MSX patent for Flir company working close to military, so this way they help them take advantage on battle fields, while those commercial available devices like Flir with MSX has preprogrammed limited capabilities only to not be able use it for diffrent purposes-so they maybe got patent to block others to make mass production of similar things-that is why patents are so bad for customers looking for lower prices and bigger competition...

If someone knows Flir MSX patent numbers let know just to see if it is already patented or patent pending only...
« Last Edit: October 01, 2014, 04:30:56 pm by eneuro »
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #668 - Mailbag + FLIR TG165
« Reply #52 on: October 01, 2014, 04:39:43 pm »
Absolutely, though unless the price drops, chances are they'll be Seek Thermal....
Probably with Seek Thermal without additional digital camera synchronized with thermal forget about aka Flir MSX edge/contoures addition in software and one will get only thermal image similar to this one on the left - blobs of temperature colors without scene edges/contours which looks not so great for 500$ TG165, but competitors I hope will add visual camera to thermal one soon, if this is not limited by some stupid MSX patent for Flir company working close to military, so this way they help them take advantage on battle fields, while those commercial available devices like Flir with MSX has preprogrammed limited capabilities only to not be able use it for diffrent purposes-so they maybe got patent to block others to make mass production of similar things-that is why patents are so bad for customers looking for lower prices and bigger competition...

If someone knows Flir MSX patent numbers let know just to see if it is already patented or patent pending only...
They had it on the earlier Ex0 models so probably a few years old by now.
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Offline eneuro

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Re: EEVblog #668 - Mailbag + FLIR TG165
« Reply #53 on: October 01, 2014, 05:24:48 pm »
...
If someone knows Flir MSX patent numbers let know just to see if it is already patented or patent pending only...
They had it on the earlier Ex0 models so probably a few years old by now.
Answer if Flir MSX is patented is here http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com/2014/01/flir-announces-consumer-thermal-camera.html
Quote
"Lepton is used in FLIR One camera. It has "a breakthrough lens fabricated in wafer form, a microbolometer FPA, and advanced thermal image processing on an ASIC. Lepton is fully compatible with FLIR’s patented multi-spectral imaging (MSX) technology, which allows visible and thermal image streams to be combined for sharper, more visually pleasing hybrid images."
Now the only question is if anyone can do these visually pleasing hybrid images by combining visible and thermal image streams not by using Lepton module and will try to sell it as own product this FLIR MSX patent will be violated?  ???

It is time to  :-/O this FLIR’s patented multi-spectral imaging (MSX) technology and read what is inside those patents, but how to find them - are they published on Google patent finders or keep secret somewhere else for military?  ::)
« Last Edit: October 01, 2014, 05:26:42 pm by eneuro »
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Offline firewalker

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Re: EEVblog #668 - Mailbag + FLIR TG165
« Reply #54 on: October 01, 2014, 05:32:11 pm »
Flir have no problem at all with my F1 stuff (message from the very top). I may even be getting a few Leptons from them....

What about the other Flir related stuff?  :P :P :P

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Offline nitro2k01

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Re: EEVblog #668 - Mailbag + FLIR TG165
« Reply #55 on: October 01, 2014, 05:36:42 pm »
Now the only question is if anyone can do these visually pleasing hybrid images by combining visible and thermal image streams not by using Lepton module and will try to sell it as own product this FLIR MSX patent will be violated?  ???

It is time to  :-/O this FLIR’s patented multi-spectral imaging (MSX) technology and read what is inside those patents, but how to find them - are they published on Google patent finders or keep secret somewhere else for military?  ::)
You can find it on Google's patent search, no problem. Search for Flir and click search tools and sort by filing data, latest. And you will find "Infrared imaging enhancement with fusion".

https://www.google.com/patents/WO2014100784A1

With that search you will also find other interesting patents from Flir, such as "Abnormal clock rate detection in imaging sensor arrays". You must obey US export restrictions. You MUST obey US export restrictions!

https://www.google.com/patents/WO2014093721A3
« Last Edit: October 01, 2014, 05:39:15 pm by nitro2k01 »
Whoa! How the hell did Dave know that Bob is my uncle? Amazing!
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #668 - Mailbag + FLIR TG165
« Reply #56 on: October 01, 2014, 05:47:24 pm »
With that search you will also find other interesting patents from Flir, such as "Abnormal clock rate detection in imaging sensor arrays". You must obey US export restrictions. You MUST obey US export restrictions!

https://www.google.com/patents/WO2014093721A3
Something I didn't check when I tried overclocking the Lepton is whether it increased the number of duplicated frames (normally 3 at 27Hz) it outputs at higher clocks...
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Offline eneuro

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Re: EEVblog #668 - Mailbag + FLIR TG165
« Reply #57 on: October 01, 2014, 06:39:55 pm »
And you will find "Infrared imaging enhancement with fusion".
https://www.google.com/patents/WO2014100784A1
:-+. I was looking for something like multi-spectral imaging (MSX) technology in this Google patents search  :palm:
Quite new probably old military technology and they have something much better while it is published in internet  :-DD
Quote
Application number   PCT/US2013/077343
Publication date   Jun 26, 2014
Filing date   Dec 21, 2013

You MUST obey US export restrictions!
Do you mean those black box Flir's Lepton modules or this concept of enhancing IR thermal images using visual & IR streams?

Something I didn't check when I tried overclocking the Lepton is whether it increased the number of duplicated frames (normally 3 at 27Hz) it outputs at higher clocks...
How did you get this thing hacked and working, while there is only 2 pages of datasheet Flir Lepton Longwave Infrared (LWIR) Camera Module ;D
It is interesting, Lepton module can be used using some kind of I2C too?
Quote
Two-wire I2C-like serial-control interface
Does it means Flir's own I2C modified somehow?



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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #668 - Mailbag + FLIR TG165
« Reply #58 on: October 01, 2014, 06:59:49 pm »

How did you get this thing hacked and working, while there is only 2 pages of datasheet
Watch the videos! Could have been done with no data, just taken longer
Quote
It is interesting, Lepton module can be used using some kind of I2C too?
Quote
Two-wire I2C-like serial-control interface
Does it means Flir's own I2C modified somehow?
No - Due to trademark issues, everyone calls I2C something different - SCCB,TWI and a few others
 As with normal camera modules, I2C is used for configuration
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Offline Kadah

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Re: EEVblog #668 - Mailbag + FLIR TG165
« Reply #59 on: October 01, 2014, 07:15:31 pm »
I'm the one that sent in the Ampex board. After shipping I was able to find a copy of that ad on eBay and made a "higher-res" scan of it, or as best I could given that 70's era magazines were larger than all of my decent scanners and had to resort to the photo copier.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26299591/pics/Mitra/Mitra%20125s%20Ad.png

Was I the only one shouting "Tagarno" at the screen during the core memory bit....?

It's still packed up from the trade show.
In any case it's less magnification than the macro lens.

What about that Andonstar USB microscope?
Can you publish some Hi-res stills please?
Before you put it in the pool room can you maybe look at it in more detail and see (speculate on) perhaps how it addresses the bits and the driver / interface circuits. I know from some reading that delay lines used before core memory was accessed serially, are these also?
Even though it is a huge board there must be considerable duplication on it. It is worth a second look I think. Maybe compare/contrast it with the other one you have.

I bought two of them from the seller (who's been out of stock for a while now), and I still have the other but unfortunately I lack access to any decent macro lenses. I do have some photos I took... with my phone back in March. If I locate my Canon G9, I'll get some shots of it, though Dave is far better kitted for this, which was one reason I got the second board.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26299591/pics/Mitra/IMG_20140326_162748.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26299591/pics/Mitra/IMG_20140326_170124.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26299591/pics/Mitra/IMG_20140326_170142.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26299591/pics/Mitra/IMG_20140326_170153.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26299591/pics/Mitra/IMG_20140326_170236.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26299591/pics/Mitra/IMG_20140326_170251.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26299591/pics/Mitra/IMG_20140326_170256.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26299591/pics/Mitra/IMG_20140326_173849.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26299591/pics/Mitra/IMG_20140326_173858.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26299591/pics/Mitra/IMG_20140326_173917.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26299591/pics/Mitra/IMG_20140326_174527.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26299591/pics/Mitra/IMG_20140326_174535.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26299591/pics/Mitra/IMG_20140326_174547.jpg


Yeah, they did come with all that crustiness in the packing, and that one was the cleaner of the pair.
 

Offline eneuro

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Re: EEVblog #668 - Mailbag + FLIR TG165
« Reply #60 on: October 01, 2014, 07:29:50 pm »
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Offline Skimask

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Re: EEVblog #668 - Mailbag + FLIR TG165
« Reply #61 on: October 01, 2014, 11:11:04 pm »
I needed a 10Mhz resonator for my Warp-13a to upgrade it.

I still have mine!
I put a ZIF socket on the PIC socket of my Warp13a, and switch out what was the latest (last) firmware for the Warp13a with another PIC with my own firmware on it.  I still use the old Warp13 for what amounts to a sort of breakout board when I need to connect something up to the PC quick and easy.
It works...
Whatever happened to Jim?
(oh and it needed a 20Mhz resonator, not 10)
I didn't take it apart.
I turned it on.

The only stupid question is, well, most of them...

Save a fuse...Blow an electrician.
 

Offline SL4P

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Re: EEVblog #668 - Mailbag + FLIR TG165
« Reply #62 on: October 02, 2014, 08:26:15 am »
CORE MEMORY
I mentioned in a previous post in another thread, that I was visiting the AMPEX facilities in Hong Kong in 1987/8 - and while there was taken to watch the middle aged women weaving the core threads.

I only saw the first phase - picking up the core donuts, and threading them onto the 'row' wires.  About 4 or 5 women, gathered around an island workbench with 'clean' trays full of 'dust'... the cores.  Working without magnifiers or any special equipment on that task.

They patiently leant over - a bit like grandma knitting - to build up lengths of each core row.

The sticker on the back of the module gave it away... AFL = Ampex Ferrotec Limited.

Cheers
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Online FrankBuss

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Re: EEVblog #668 - Mailbag + FLIR TG165
« Reply #63 on: October 11, 2014, 08:33:26 am »
A more objective comparision between the FLIR TG165 and the Fluke visual IR thermometer (but it is the VT04) :



The TG165 has higher resolution, but the VT04 has the nice feature to take pictures automatically every 10 minutes when a threshold temperature is exceeded. Unfortunately the IS2 file format of the VT04 is not published and Fluke doesn't want to publish it (I asked the Fluke customer support and at least they answered, but refused to send me the specification to write a better program than the very limited viewer which is bundled with it).
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Offline eneuro

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Re: EEVblog #668 - Mailbag + FLIR TG165
« Reply #64 on: October 11, 2014, 06:29:35 pm »
The TG165 has higher resolution, but the VT04 has the nice feature to take pictures automatically every 10 minutes when a threshold temperature is exceeded. Unfortunately the IS2 file format of the VT04 is not published and Fluke doesn't want to publish it

Using other thermal cameras connected to device with OpenCV like some Nvidia tablets or regular PC, one can easy write such application and no thanks to Fluke for their closed formats  >:(

Will see how Seek Thermal with USB OTG will behave when they publish developers tools.
There is a question about supported temperatures ranges in thermal devices, but if one can in realtime get thermal image on device with OpenCV one can do everything with such thermal images-thermal image specs are then limits only.
I hope Seek Thermal team is smart and they know that they do not have to fight with Flir's MSX patents, while when they provide thermal camera plugable to decent computing power those devices can download any even Open Source software which will give users unlimited options to convert those thermal image and even make fusion with visual light like in Flir's MSX .

Those Fluke and Flir closed software will no longer be needed as well as their thermal cameras in many practical use cases of IR analysis  8)
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