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EEVblog => EEVblog Specific => Topic started by: EEVblog on October 08, 2014, 09:06:24 am

Title: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: EEVblog on October 08, 2014, 09:06:24 am
Dave exposes the global White Van Speaker Scam and tears down a Marc Vincent Surround Sound Receiver, one of the items sold in Australia through this scam.
How crap is it?, watch and find out!
Also a 3D Optics HD-8500 projector that is also sold as part of the scam that involves the absolute cheapest quality parts sold under fake brands at grossly inflated prices from literally the back of a van.

A Current Affair Exposé of the scam in Australia, and the Marc Vincent brand in particular:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PcfyLl-QLM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PcfyLl-QLM)

The same scam in the UK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOsYy3h4YVw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOsYy3h4YVw)

3D Optics HD-8500 datasheet:
http://optimax3d.com/products/8500/ (http://optimax3d.com/products/8500/)

Datasheets:
TDA2030 Power amplifier:
http://www.zymcu.com/datasheet/electronics/TDA2030.pdf (http://www.zymcu.com/datasheet/electronics/TDA2030.pdf)

Nuvoton 8051:
http://www2.nuvoton.com/hq/enu/ProductAndSales/ProductLines/MicrocontrollerApplicationIC/8051Microcontroller/80C51Microcontroller12T/Documents/W78E054D_W78E052D_W78E051D.pdf (http://www2.nuvoton.com/hq/enu/ProductAndSales/ProductLines/MicrocontrollerApplicationIC/8051Microcontroller/80C51Microcontroller12T/Documents/W78E054D_W78E052D_W78E051D.pdf)

EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3B_KKyntQE#ws)
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on October 08, 2014, 09:55:31 am
The issue with that projector wasn't that the lens was flapping about, but that they'd used plastic fresnel lenses and a standard LCD panel!
It was basically a monitor with a brighter backlight & some bits of plastic
 kinda reminds me of these
(http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/dja65/dja651107/dja65110700367/10044922-vintage-tv-with-magnifying-glass.jpg)

Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: senso on October 08, 2014, 10:12:18 am
By the looks they might really be original caps, from a dumpster, all burned up from soldering irons and torchs, and isn't SK the symbol for Sanken, maybe fake as well..
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: kwallen on October 08, 2014, 10:26:19 am
Is it just me or is the video quality a little weird on this episode?
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: ConKbot on October 08, 2014, 10:27:22 am
combo subwoofer and receiver? seems legit.   :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: EEVblog on October 08, 2014, 10:27:56 am
The issue with that projector wasn't that the lens was flapping about, but that they'd used plastic fresnel lenses and a standard LCD panel!
It was basically a monitor with a brighter backlight & some bits of plastic

Yes, I'm surprised it worked as well as it did.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: EEVblog on October 08, 2014, 10:28:23 am
Is it just me or is the video quality a little weird on this episode?

What's the problem?
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: kwallen on October 08, 2014, 10:36:42 am
Is it just me or is the video quality a little weird on this episode?

What's the problem?

Just the introduction looks a little soft compared with your normal quality. Good tear down none the less.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: calexanian on October 08, 2014, 10:38:10 am
Ah yes. The old Van Speakers grift. that has been over here in the U.S. since the 70's. I have a friend who in a less than perfect youth used to be a peddler of this crap. Back then it was stuff that was not import worthy that rather than end up in tokyo bay or destroyed by customs would walk out the door by the longshoremen and into the hands of grifters. They had scripts and all. Buyer Be Ware!! I put it in the same category as all the fake health supplements and what have you. Just don't expect the guy who sold it to you to feel too bad when your house burns down!
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: RobertoLG on October 08, 2014, 10:42:27 am
Nice intro/teardown, never saw this kind of scam around here, generaly if it's to cheap it's stolen stuff...
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: janoc on October 08, 2014, 10:43:04 am
Oh these scams are really common in Europe too.

Usually you will either encounter it on motorway service stations or you will get stopped directly on the road by some darker skinned business-like guys in suits running around an older expensive car - like a Mercedes or BMW. They will claim they have ran out of gas (or something similar), but they don't have euros/credit card/whatever, so they will offer to sell you some supposedly golden jewelry, watches or electronics for a bargain price in order to be able to continue their trip. Of course, it is all worthless junk. Also the car tends to "magically" fix itself if police shows up (or someone mentions calling it).

There are gangs of these scammers all over Europe, moving quickly from place to place. They can be actually very aggressive, sometimes literally jumping in front of your car to force you to stop to deal with them. Some will even steal stuff from your car while you are distracted by dealing with one of them. These are usually gypsy/Roma gangs from the Balkans - Bulgarians, Romanians, etc. running these schemes.

Few years ago I got approached by a guy in Denmark who was trying to sell me a "really top quality Hugo Boss" suit in a parking lot like this. I am not sure what was he thinking, people usually don't buy clothing without trying it on ...

Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Eliminateur on October 08, 2014, 11:43:12 am
That's not a proper projection system lamp, that's a "garden" "commercial building" HID lamp, in fact you can see the big ass ballasts in front lol (That Dave doesn't even gloss over).
Proper projectors either use a small dichroic HID lamp that comes as a module or some other esoteric systems when you go ultra high end(Lasers and shit).

Also, Nuvoton is a big brand name, they manufacture big core logic that's currently used on servers(Dell and HP ones at least, current generation, and that's top dollar), the SoC has the system video card, a full embedded processor core, MII ethernet ports, usb KVM control logic, ram interface, etc etc and all of that makes the out of band management system
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Smokey on October 08, 2014, 11:45:25 am
HAH!  You just shamed the hell out of someone in your building who tossed that stuff in the dumpster.  I hope they don't watch the blog :)
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: N2IXK on October 08, 2014, 11:48:04 am
The "Marc Vincent" thing may be trying to play on confusion with "Mark Levinson", an actual high-end audio brand:

http://www.marklevinson.com/ (http://www.marklevinson.com/)

Love the valves!  Have seen a few bits of fake valve gear (guitar effects pedals) before, but they at least had the heaters wired up so the otherwise useless valves would at least light up.



Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Sparkey_500 on October 08, 2014, 12:41:54 pm
Spell checking your work is hard. "One hout"
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: poot36 on October 08, 2014, 01:12:40 pm
It would have been interesting to see if the valves (tubes) were real or not.  I noticed the thin grid wires in one of the tubes and I do not think that they would go to the trouble to replicate this.  I suspect that they were recycled as well.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: kwallen on October 08, 2014, 01:20:59 pm
It would have been interesting to see if the valves (tubes) were real or not.  I noticed the thin grid wires in one of the tubes and I do not think that they would go to the trouble to replicate this.  I suspect that they were recycled as well.

(http://i.imgur.com/FizTgXj.jpg)

The getter deposit does look suspiciously real too, maybe they're dud tubes?
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Rutger on October 08, 2014, 01:51:14 pm
Found the youtube video on the projector;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy-tADCJx_c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy-tADCJx_c)

Its funny. ^-^
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: LoyalServant on October 08, 2014, 02:13:39 pm
That looks like one of those DIY projectors made from an LCD monitor.
Yeah... it works but it's shit.. just like you say.

The amp with the valves is just classic.
It looked like the intention may have been to power up the filaments on that?
I guess blue valves look cooler than red-ish ones?

Oh well.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: N2IXK on October 08, 2014, 02:15:14 pm
The valves look like genuine PRC stuff, likely military surplus.

The 6N1 is equivalent to the 6AQ8/ECC85. A dual triode valve that actually might be a good low level audio amplifier.

Datasheet here, for anyone who can read Chinese:

http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/095/6/6N1.pdf (http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/095/6/6N1.pdf)

Would have been interested to see if they were duds or perfectly usable valves being wasted as eye candy.  Betting Dave doesn't have a tube tester among all that test gear, though...

Not sure what the traces on the valve PCB were all about. I thought they might have been intending to heat the filaments as well, but the pinout is all wrong.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: EEVblog on October 08, 2014, 03:11:36 pm
Found the youtube video on the projector;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy-tADCJx_c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy-tADCJx_c)
Its funny. ^-^

Damn, those guys aren't even remotely good at selling the scam!
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: EEVblog on October 08, 2014, 03:12:35 pm
Would have been interested to see if they were duds or perfectly usable valves being wasted as eye candy.  Betting Dave doesn't have a tube tester among all that test gear, though...

Nope!
Bet your bottom dollar they are faulty.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: SeanB on October 08, 2014, 03:40:23 pm
If they were not they are now after the pins are bent. The seals will have cracked, so in another few months the tube will be white as air gets in.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: David_AVD on October 08, 2014, 03:58:31 pm
We had a customer bring in a similar sub/receiver piece of crap for repair a while back. (he also got speakers and a projector)

I looked up the brand and saw all the white van stories associated with it.  Gave the customer the bad news. He never did come back and collect it.

Sounded very embarrassed on the phone and said he hoped his wife didn't find out how much money he'd wasted.   :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Bored@Work on October 08, 2014, 04:18:42 pm
Is it just me or is the video quality a little weird on this episode?

What's the problem?

IMHO unusually often out of focus.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Naahuel on October 08, 2014, 04:37:43 pm
I started looking at videos of people "reviewing" the products after they found out they were scammed.

Mclaren BLU-3 Surround Sound (SCAM DO NOT BUY) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J16ZTLa04V8#ws)
This one is hilarious. The front panel fell off when he opened the box and when he opened one of the speakers there was a rock inside, hahaha.

I don't know if it counts, really, but there's a brand over here called "Thonet & Vander" (http://www.thonet-vander.com/ (http://www.thonet-vander.com/)). Allegedly german design. Turns out, it's a local company who buys chinese speakers and re-brands them. The difference is that they're not cheap at all and they do a REALLY good job with the branding. Like, really well designed packagings, leaflets, manuals, badges, etc. it's remarkable! But people have found the exact same ones from a chinese (and cheap) brand.

I have a set (the Hoch) and I actually love them :P ahaha They claim 70 Watts but I'm not sure it can deliver that much. Still, pretty decent sound.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: calexanian on October 08, 2014, 05:26:25 pm
If they were not they are now after the pins are bent. The seals will have cracked, so in another few months the tube will be white as air gets in.

The dumet seal is better and more pliable than one might imagine.

They are real 6N1 tubes. They are available on the surplus market in china and Russia in the sub fifty cents range, and there are probably throw away noisy ones they got for pennies. They propably were going to light the filaments but realized they are so far inside the cathodes on those tubes they don't show through and went with plan B with the LED's. Otherwise they would have just glued them down and not bothered with the PCB for them to sit in.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: bktemp on October 08, 2014, 06:29:27 pm
The glue on the main caps of the amplifier has a different colour than other glue used. They are probably used parts from other equipment, so they could be genuine nippon.

The HID lamp in the projector is powered from a simple magnetic ballast. The light is therefore modulated with double the mains frequency. I expect some real crappy performance when the light frequency is interfering with the video framrate. Normal projectors often use lamps powered with dc current or at least electonic ballasts running at a higher frequency.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: amyk on October 08, 2014, 06:50:58 pm
The prices on that projector's site would've been more reasonable for something of that (real, not the one on the site) spec in the mid 90s... and it looks like even that type of projector is obsolete among the low-end in China now, since all the projectors I could find on Alibaba are using LEDs instead of HID lamps. I wonder if there's a strange trend towards using enormous lenses, since they all have bigger ones (relative to the body) than Dave's.

Here's one with what looks like the exact same UI:
http://deve-s.en.alibaba.com/product/491842079-209761600/1080p_led_projector_HD_projector_with_TV_Tuner.html (http://deve-s.en.alibaba.com/product/491842079-209761600/1080p_led_projector_HD_projector_with_TV_Tuner.html)

2200 lumens, 600:1 contrast, 800x600 resolution ("supports up to 1080p" via downsampling), and the same set of inputs.

There's others with slightly different specs (e.g. 50W instead of 80W LED, so lower contrast and brightness) like this one
http://oley.en.alibaba.com/product/565915459-50328992/low_cost_home_theater_projector_with_hdmi_built_in_tv_tuner.html (http://oley.en.alibaba.com/product/565915459-50328992/low_cost_home_theater_projector_with_hdmi_built_in_tv_tuner.html)

but they're all in the $100-200 range. Probably usable in a dark room (i.e. a home theater) for watching DVDs or regular TV...

There are also 320 x 240 projectors on Alibaba for <$100, with an HDMI input. I have no idea what those could possibly be useful for.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Legit-Design on October 08, 2014, 06:56:53 pm
Some sweet diy projectors I was browsing some time ago.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/diy-projectors/33356-diy-projector-philippines-84.html (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/diy-projectors/33356-diy-projector-philippines-84.html)
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd228/hertzblaster/N070ICG%20new%20build/photo70.jpg)

I think you could actually get a Full HD panel for that thing for reasonable price on ebay.

Diy projector kits can also give good results.
DiY HD LCD Projector Beamer RESULTS G&P Optoelectronics (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NynDX2oAU6g#)
http://www.beamer-selbstbau.de/product_info.php/info/p224_WM-Special-HDready-Beamer-Teile.html (http://www.beamer-selbstbau.de/product_info.php/info/p224_WM-Special-HDready-Beamer-Teile.html)
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: JoeMuc2013 on October 08, 2014, 07:12:02 pm
*lol*
Reminded me of the British high-end devices of the late 80s and early 90s. The crappier they were, the more enthusiastic audio magazine reports would report about them. Originating in GB plus having an ugly mostly plastic housing, being hopelessly overpriced, featuring uncapped potentiometers and corroding input selectors (if any) qualified almost any device to be top gear those days. They had actual audio qualities (usually with minuscule output power) though. But nothing that heavyweight Japanese actual high-end gear such as Accuphase could not outdo in any aspect.
The hype was powered by well-known brand names and high-end gurus who stood behind the GB products, advertising crazy strategies such as using only 90-degree angles in internal cabling, painting CD edges green, using bell wire in critical places and putting amplifiers on a tilt because they would sound better. And many people actually believed that.
Who knows, maybe these mystics are not all gone. The Marc Vincent looks like it is all of that mixed into one.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: digital on October 08, 2014, 07:26:19 pm
Dave you may not be aware of it but your language in the video is certainly not suitable for young adults or children wanting to learn about electronics.Regards Wayne
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: mikeselectricstuff on October 08, 2014, 07:40:18 pm
Love the valves!  Have seen a few bits of fake valve gear (guitar effects pedals) before, but they at least had the heaters wired up so the otherwise useless valves would at least light up.
It looked like the PCB was tracked to allow the heaters to be connected, if the pins had been soldered.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: David_AVD on October 08, 2014, 07:54:53 pm
Dave you may not be aware of it but your language in the video is certainly not suitable for young adults or children wanting to learn about electronics.

It is what it is.  Not all content on the Internet is suitable for all ages.   ;)
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Smokey on October 08, 2014, 08:11:26 pm
Dave you may not be aware of it but your language in the video is certainly not suitable for young adults or children wanting to learn about electronics.Regards Wayne
"Young Adults"  !!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_adult_%28psychology%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_adult_%28psychology%29)

Don't want to permanently scar those poor 20 to 40 year olds!

Remember kids... if you hear someone say "SHIT" you might become a serial killer!

Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Rasz on October 08, 2014, 09:24:13 pm
very oldschool back of the van scam

https://youtu.be/nvMlnvkn0Kc?t=1m51s (https://youtu.be/nvMlnvkn0Kc?t=1m51s)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzcQCUApakw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzcQCUApakw)

goes back to 70-80s


btw those caps and relay actually look 100% genuine, just recycled from junk piles
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: pplaninsky on October 08, 2014, 09:35:16 pm
One of my favourite Brit TV series is "Hustle".
Yeah, I know that they are glorifying and presenting in a romantic way the 'grifters' and probably things in the real world is nothing like this, but the con men from "Hustle" have a nice credo:

"You can't cheat an honest man."

And I think it is generally true.

Even if the guys from the white van are selling real merchandise on low prices under pretext that something happened and they just need to get rid of it - everybody could think 10 seconds and conclude, that either these goods are stolen or there is something else going wrong and the sellers are bunch of liars.

So, you see - the scam is possible just because there are buyers, who unscrupulously will buy anything, even if they are guessing that there is something wrong with the deal.
No matter if it is a genuine merchandise or fake.
But when it turns fake - you should remember your thoughts or intuition that probably something was wrong with the deal and that your greedy side took over.
... and now you are punished for you greed.

I am always saying that for such things to happen - there need to be two sides - seller and buyer.

If, we, people were perfect and 100% honest - such scammers would have just died out of hunger - no sell will be possible.
So, generally they feed of our greed - that's it.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: rolycat on October 08, 2014, 10:26:28 pm
One of my favourite Brit TV series is "Hustle".
Yeah, I know that they are glorifying and presenting in a romantic way the 'grifters' and probably things in the real world is nothing like this, but the con men from "Hustle" have a nice credo:

"You can't cheat an honest man."

And I think it is generally true.

Even if the guys from the white van are selling real merchandise on low prices under pretext that something happened and they just need to get rid of it - everybody could think 10 seconds and conclude, that either these goods are stolen or there is something else going wrong and the sellers are bunch of liars.

So, you see - the scam is possible just because there are buyers, who unscrupulously will buy anything, even if they are guessing that there is something wrong with the deal.
No matter if it is a genuine merchandise or fake.
But when it turns fake - you should remember your thoughts or intuition that probably something was wrong with the deal and that your greedy side took over.
... and now you are punished for you greed.

I am always saying that for such things to happen - there need to be two sides - seller and buyer.

If, we, people were perfect and 100% honest - such scammers would have just died out of hunger - no sell will be possible.
So, generally they feed of our greed - that's it.

In this specific instance, it's true that the scammers are appealing to people's greed, but it is dangerous nonsense to claim that honesty will somehow protect you from grifters.

Rather than basing your theories on a fictional series, you might want to take a look at a related TV show called "The Real Hustle", in which a variety of cons used in real life are demonstrated on unsuspecting members of the public. Many of these exploit confusion, compassion, or any number of entirely worthy human impulses.

What sort of 'greed' do you think the scumbags who extort vast sums of money by frightening elderly residents into worthless 'repairs' to their homes are exploiting? Or fake 'charity workers' who are simply lining their own pockets?
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: EEVblog on October 08, 2014, 11:06:24 pm
Dave you may not be aware of it but your language in the video is certainly not suitable for young adults or children wanting to learn about electronics.Regards Wayne

David_AVD beat me to it. It is what it is.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: N2IXK on October 08, 2014, 11:07:56 pm
Love the valves!  Have seen a few bits of fake valve gear (guitar effects pedals) before, but they at least had the heaters wired up so the otherwise useless valves would at least light up.
It looked like the PCB was tracked to allow the heaters to be connected, if the pins had been soldered.

Look closely at the PCB.  Each valve location has pins 2 through 8 connected together, with pin 1 connected separately and pin 9 left unconnected.  All the pin 1 terminals are bussed together, and all the pin 2-8 terminals are bussed together.

All well and good, but the usual heater pins on a 9 pin miniature valve (including the 6N1 used here) are pins 4 and 5!  And if they originally intended to use one of the 12V dual triodes with the center tapped 12.6V heater (and run it from 6V), the required center tap comes out on the unconnected pin 9!

Not aware of any nine pin valve with one end of the heater on pin 1. Maybe some Chinese oddball? :-// My best guess is that they originally wanted to use something like an ECC83, but screwed up the PCB layout and used pin 1 instead of pin 9 for one side of the heater. Then they said "screw it", skipped the sockets, and shoved any valves they could get into the board and bent the pins over to hold them in!
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Towger on October 09, 2014, 12:14:43 am
Is it just me or is the video quality a little weird on this episode?

What's the problem?

The new lens/camera combo you started to use with the new bench head shots has what I shall call a 'soft focus'.  It is noticeable when viewed on a large computer monitor at full 1080, especially when you switch lens/camera for bench shots which have a sharper/clearer focus.

That projector looks like a DIY design put into production, it is nothing like standard 3 LCD or DLP model. Probable has a standard LCD panel in side to say nothing of the standard 'domestic' HID lamp.  The amp looks like something Amstrad would sell in the late 80's...
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: m100 on October 09, 2014, 01:11:07 am
The power transistors at around 16 mins could be 2SA1695 & 2SC4468, the logo looks like Sanken.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: dexters_lab on October 09, 2014, 01:14:21 am
nice vid, i lol'ed at the bargraphs on the display, they are running upside down!

with note to the focus, i have noticed this before too, i think sometimes the camera is focusing on the racks of kit behind. I would have mentioned it before but these things dont bother me O0
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: N2IXK on October 09, 2014, 01:24:36 am
The power transistors at around 16 mins could be 2SA1695 & 2SC4468, the logo looks like Sanken.

Those look to be the output transistors for the subwoofer channel. If they are actual Sanken, they must be recycled like the filter caps and relay were.   Sanken audio power transistors are widely counterfeited:

http://sound.westhost.com/fake/counterfeit-p2.htm (http://sound.westhost.com/fake/counterfeit-p2.htm)
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: coppice on October 09, 2014, 02:14:37 am
Also, Nuvoton is a big brand name, they manufacture big core logic that's currently used on servers(Dell and HP ones at least, current generation, and that's top dollar), the SoC has the system video card, a full embedded processor core, MII ethernet ports, usb KVM control logic, ram interface, etc etc and all of that makes the out of band management system
Pretty much every PC motherboard has a Nuvoton chip for its voltage and temperature monitoring. Dave has this tendency to think everything in a nasty product is nasty without much checking.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: williefleete on October 09, 2014, 02:39:19 am
I LOLed at the fact the "valves" werent even hooked up  :-DD :-DD. whoever decided to put blue LEDs under them were amateurs, valves dont glow blue unless they are gassy ::) they should have gone for orange LEDs or some tungsten lamps at reduced voltage for that "authentic" valve look O0 ::)
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: cloudscapes on October 09, 2014, 03:06:22 am
nice score on the Marantz, they make really good gear (assuming it's a real one)! Bit surprised that was thrown out. Then tend to last decades, and people often put in the extra effort to fix them.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: NiHaoMike on October 09, 2014, 03:14:19 am
Should have saved that speaker for a "Photonicinduction style PMPO test"...

And then there's Beats, essentially the same scam nicely hidden in retail packaging.
http://www.vox.com/2014/5/29/5761084/sound-experts-agree-beats-by-dre-arent-anything-special (http://www.vox.com/2014/5/29/5761084/sound-experts-agree-beats-by-dre-arent-anything-special)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/09/beats-headphones-reviews_n_5294628.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/09/beats-headphones-reviews_n_5294628.html)

No clue what's going to happen now that Beats is owned by Apple. Either they will improve it to the point where it's no longer a scam (though still not good value) or critics will use that as a strike against Apple.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: SeanB on October 09, 2014, 03:15:52 am
Neighbours would complain of the noise, sounding better than the strangled chipmunks they use for speakers........
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: firewalker on October 09, 2014, 04:57:30 am
Someone can find our "white vans" at highway car stops. Like this story:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/its-an-ipad!!!/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/its-an-ipad!!!)

Alexander.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: ciccio on October 09, 2014, 06:47:04 am

"You can't cheat an honest man."

But when it turns fake - you should remember your thoughts or intuition that probably something was wrong with the deal and that your greedy side took over.
... and now you are punished for you greed.

If, we, people were perfect and 100% honest - such scammers would have just died out of hunger - no sell will be possible.

A real story: some years ago a policeman (out of service, wearing civilian clothes) was scammed at an highway service station by some guys who sold him a perfect imitiation of a brand name video camera (made in clay...).
When he discovered being scammed he runned back the highway and confronted the scammers with his gun, severely wounding one of them.
He was arrested but I do not remember what happened after.
I remember seeing this gang of scammers  in that service station every day, for maybe 5 or 6 years, and the police could not ignore them.. Maybe they sold good merchandise to the police..
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: NiHaoMike on October 09, 2014, 06:57:47 am
Would be funny if some "scammers" started selling fake Beats headphones that work better than the real thing...

Also, on the watch scam, I wonder how they'll react if you put the (real or well made fake) watch on to "check if it fits", with the intent to pay for it if it fits...
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Macbeth on October 09, 2014, 07:35:29 am
There are gangs of these scammers all over Europe, moving quickly from place to place. They can be actually very aggressive, sometimes literally jumping in front of your car to force you to stop to deal with them. Some will even steal stuff from your car while you are distracted by dealing with one of them. These are usually gypsy/Roma gangs from the Balkans - Bulgarians, Romanians, etc. running these schemes.

One thing I would like to point out is that the Roma are NOT the normal Romanians. Roma are of course the same as the gypsies, pikeys, or Irish travellers we are cursed with, but not allowed to talk about for fear of Political Incorrectness. Shit-rags like the Daily Mail in the UK try and make out Romanians = Roma. Me, I welcome hard working Romanians into the UK, but please keep the gypsies and Roma out!
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: janoc on October 09, 2014, 08:00:32 am
One thing I would like to point out is that the Roma are NOT the normal Romanians.

I have never said they were the same. It could have sounded like that, because most of these gangs come from Romania where a large (and very poor) Roma/gypsy population lives. I am well aware of the difference, my homeland having enough trouble with some of these folks already.

I LOLed at the fact the "valves" werent even hooked up  :-DD :-DD. whoever decided to put blue LEDs under them were amateurs, valves dont glow blue unless they are gassy ::) they should have gone for orange LEDs or some tungsten lamps at reduced voltage for that "authentic" valve look O0 ::)

Then you haven't seen the standard audiophool junk where blue LEDs are used to light the tubes:

E.g. this one:
http://s86.photobucket.com/user/dgwojo/media/ASL_AQ-1002_05_zpsa5d568e9.jpg.html (http://s86.photobucket.com/user/dgwojo/media/ASL_AQ-1002_05_zpsa5d568e9.jpg.html)

It is similar thing like the blue neon glow under cars that used to be so popular ...
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Macbeth on October 09, 2014, 08:02:39 am
Allegedly german design. Turns out, it's a local company who buys chinese speakers and re-brands them. The difference is that they're not cheap at all and they do a REALLY good job with the branding. Like, really well designed packagings, leaflets, manuals, badges, etc. it's remarkable! But people have found the exact same ones from a chinese (and cheap) brand.
Sounds a bit like the LeCroy Wavestation vs Siglent SDG1000 series. I'm sure there are many more rebadges if Chinese stuff selling for top dollar too.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Macbeth on October 09, 2014, 08:15:25 am
Dave you may not be aware of it but your language in the video is certainly not suitable for young adults or children wanting to learn about electronics.Regards Wayne
Bollocks. Are you a real Ozzie? did you vote in that cunt Tony Abbott by any chance? Do you really think young adults or even children give a flying feck about a few swear-words?

Have a watch of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_osQvkeNRM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_osQvkeNRM). Stephen Fry's take on how great swearing is!  :-+
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Macbeth on October 09, 2014, 08:21:39 am
Rather than basing your theories on a fictional series, you might want to take a look at a related TV show called "The Real Hustle", in which a variety of cons used in real life are demonstrated on unsuspecting members of the public. Many of these exploit confusion, compassion, or any number of entirely worthy human impulses.

What sort of 'greed' do you think the scumbags who extort vast sums of money by frightening elderly residents into worthless 'repairs' to their homes are exploiting? Or fake 'charity workers' who are simply lining their own pockets?
The Real Hustle is great. Now I am naturally a skeptic, even a cynic, and so won't fall for those guys scams. But that gorgeous "Jess" - I'm sorry all the blood drains from my brain to another region, and I think I would really have to fight hard to avoid her scams!  :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: DavidDLC on October 09, 2014, 08:26:46 am
Is it just me or is the video quality a little weird on this episode?

What's the problem?

Just the introduction looks a little soft compared with your normal quality. Good tear down none the less.

It is different because Dave was using a new super camera he bought from some guys in a white van at a very low price. Good deal !  :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Sionyn on October 09, 2014, 08:42:46 am
Should have saved that speaker for a "Photonicinduction style PMPO test"...

And then there's Beats, essentially the same scam nicely hidden in retail packaging.
http://www.vox.com/2014/5/29/5761084/sound-experts-agree-beats-by-dre-arent-anything-special (http://www.vox.com/2014/5/29/5761084/sound-experts-agree-beats-by-dre-arent-anything-special)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/09/beats-headphones-reviews_n_5294628.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/09/beats-headphones-reviews_n_5294628.html)

No clue what's going to happen now that Beats is owned by Apple. Either they will improve it to the point where it's no longer a scam (though still not good value) or critics will use that as a strike against Apple.

exactly beats and audiophile products are the scam in them selves just better quality
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Sionyn on October 09, 2014, 08:44:34 am
Speaking of dodgy as watches dave, here are a few a delboy dropped after he was frightened off by someone shouting police :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: zapta on October 09, 2014, 10:08:37 am
Dave, tell us the truth, how much did you pay for it?

Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: divelectservices on October 09, 2014, 12:17:35 pm
Getting "diddled" at a motorway stop is very different in the USA!   :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: marcan on October 09, 2014, 06:35:36 pm
The projector is straight up DIY projector construction. The difference is that DIY projectors usually actually use decent resolution screens (I myself built one, back in the day when I had little money and lots of time) and are also much larger. This stuff made sense back when 1080p projectors were hideously expensive and you could get a cheap laptop 1920x1200 LCD screen, strip off the backlight, and build an oversized but functional projector out of it for much less.

The design certainly works, but it's highly suboptimal as far as light loss. The color filters in the LCD mean that you only get 33% of light output; after the polarizer, that's down to 15% or so. That's why they need noisy fans and yet they're very dim. And yes, their lamp is bog-standard HID crap, not an actual projector bulb. They even have the rear reflector that looks identical to the one that I used with my DIY projector. The one good thing these projectors have going for them is that the replacement bulbs are dirt cheap.

This is the 1024x768 one that I built back in 2007. Same construction: standard HID light bulb, reflector behind, fresnel lens, panel with backlight stripped, fresnel lens, output triplet lens (sorry, I don't have a photo of the innards). At least mine had an e-ballast instead of the crappy magnetic ones, and seems like it was brighter too!
(https://marcan.st/uploads/images/proj_complete_s.jpg) (https://marcan.st/uploads/images/proj_complete.jpg) (https://marcan.st/uploads/images/proj_picture_s.jpg) (https://marcan.st/uploads/images/proj_picture.jpg)
I actually spent some money rebuilding it as 1920x1200, kind of gave up on it since it wasn't that bright and kind of loud, shortly thereafter got a real job, and bought myself an Epson EH-TW3200 instead.

You should take apart a real projector sometime; it's a world of difference :-). Yes, the construction inside this cheapo scam projector is "decent" once you start with the premise that you're going to build this kind of projector, but the design has nothing to do with the way real projectors are designed. Real consumer projectors either use a DLP chip and a color wheel, or dichroic color splitters and 3 high-density, monochrome LCD panels arranged around another dichro prism. The light path is also much narrower and much tighter in real projectors, none of this wide-open crap with wiring next to the lenses!
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: G7PSK on October 09, 2014, 07:55:39 pm
The issue with that projector wasn't that the lens was flapping about, but that they'd used plastic fresnel lenses and a standard LCD panel!
It was basically a monitor with a brighter backlight & some bits of plastic
 kinda reminds me of these
(http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/dja65/dja651107/dja65110700367/10044922-vintage-tv-with-magnifying-glass.jpg)

I had one of those lenses when I was about 12, on a hot summers day it could crack concrete and turn clay to pottery in minuets, it ended up getting dropped from my bike and splitting open, it was filled with what smelt like turpentine.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: eripaha on October 09, 2014, 08:43:35 pm
Dave your videos have always had some of what a positive spin to them (even the rants). This video did not have that positive vibe im sorry to say  :-[
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Rasz on October 09, 2014, 08:57:46 pm
Sounds a bit like the LeCroy Wavestation vs Siglent SDG1000 series. I'm sure there are many more rebadges if Chinese stuff selling for top dollar too.

and HAM gear
http://hamgear.wordpress.com/2014/10/08/the-end-of-alinco-as-we-know-it/ (http://hamgear.wordpress.com/2014/10/08/the-end-of-alinco-as-we-know-it/)
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: teda on October 09, 2014, 10:10:53 pm
It says 7.1 A/V on the front. I wonder how that is done with 5 chip and 1 sub amplifiers? Oh and where is the "V" in "A/V"?
 
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: c4757p on October 09, 2014, 10:31:56 pm
It says 7.1 A/V on the front. I wonder how that is done with 5 chip and 1 sub amplifiers? Oh and where is the "V" in "A/V"?

Directly after the forward slash, I believe.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Andy Watson on October 09, 2014, 10:36:26 pm
V for valves, surely? :)
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: VK3DRB on October 10, 2014, 12:33:44 am
Things have not changed. In Sydney there was a company called David Starr Enterprises in the late 70's - run by an Italian mob "family". Liars, cheats and thieves of the worst kind. They were the same was white van scammers.

It is a case of buyer beware and know what you are buying. Today I scored a genuine Vision Mantis, excellent condition with 2X, 4X and 6X lenses at a near dumpster price for $A 900 the lot. Had a bit of dust on it, but I cleaned it up with eucalyptus oil and isopropyl alcohol and it is like brand new. You cannot beat a Mantis for electronics. I knew what I was buying and I did my homework.

Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: NANDBlog on October 10, 2014, 04:56:44 am
Dave, tell us the truth, how much did you pay for it?
No, this was the EEVblog white van dumpster scam . badum tss
Drop some nicely looking gear near the EEVblog corporate tower's dumpster Dave will take it, and he will only realize he was scammed after the twitter messages  :-DD

Thanks Dave for the video!
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: sonnytiger on October 10, 2014, 11:06:28 am
If they were going for dirt cheap why would they use a toroidal? Even my Yamaha RX-596 uses a standard e core.
What gives?
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: kwallen on October 10, 2014, 12:11:07 pm
If they were going for dirt cheap why would they use a toroidal? Even my Yamaha RX-596 uses a standard e core.
What gives?

Lots of cheap Chinese gear seems to originate from material that is rejected from reputable manufacturer's contracts. I'd like to say they're rejects from something proper, but the pinched primary winding suggests otherwise. I doubt you'd ever be able to track down the origin of any of that stuff even if you tried, so I guess we'll never know. The VFD is certainly from another product though, there's phosphor panels for modes like Dolby Digital and others that this box certainly doesn't have the capability to decode.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: sonnytiger on October 10, 2014, 01:46:50 pm
Ah OK I see, interesting, you really have to admire the lengths they will go to to save a penny :P
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: digital on October 10, 2014, 08:49:55 pm
Dave you may not be aware of it but your language in the video is certainly not suitable for young adults or children wanting to learn about electronics.Regards Wayne
Bollocks. Are you a real Ozzie? did you vote in that cunt Tony Abbott by any chance? Do you really think young adults or even children give a flying feck about a few swear-words?

Have a watch of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_osQvkeNRM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_osQvkeNRM). Stephen Fry's take on how great swearing is!  :-+
Yes I was born here generations ago and whether I voted for the Prime Minister is none of your business so what is your point.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: digital on October 10, 2014, 08:52:16 pm
Dave you may not be aware of it but your language in the video is certainly not suitable for young adults or children wanting to learn about electronics.Regards Wayne

David_AVD beat me to it. It is what it is.
Dave is that comment supposed to be meaningful.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: nitro2k01 on October 10, 2014, 09:11:59 pm
Dave you may not be aware of it but your language in the video is certainly not suitable for young adults or children wanting to learn about electronics.Regards Wayne
How exactly is mild cursing unsuitable, though? Because it breaks your impression of youths as innocent minds who don't know the foul names for bovine excrement, testes, the glans of the penis, and all the rest? And also, what's with the choice of words, "young adults"? Even if it isn't what you intended, it implies that even a 19 year-old would generally think that cursing is offensive. Maybe the word you're looking for is adolescent?
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: c4757p on October 10, 2014, 09:28:31 pm
Yes I was born here generations ago and whether I voted for the Prime Minister is none of your business so what is your point.

Speaking of "none of your business": other people's choice of words.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: brabus on October 10, 2014, 09:33:09 pm
I had a very good laugh watching this video, thanks!  :-DD

The best part was when you cracked open the "AMPLFIER" we can read at 9:29! :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: tom66 on October 10, 2014, 11:33:56 pm
I'm honestly surprised it's not just an empty case with a weight in the bottom of it, so there's that...
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: David_AVD on October 11, 2014, 11:43:51 am
Dave you may not be aware of it but your language in the video is certainly not suitable for young adults or children wanting to learn about electronics.Regards Wayne

David_AVD beat me to it. It is what it is.
Dave is that comment supposed to be meaningful.

It's pretty simple.  Dave (Jones) runs this forum and does the videos in his own style.  No everyone will like that style and they are free to not read / watch.   ::)
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: digital on October 11, 2014, 07:28:32 pm
Dave you may not be aware of it but your language in the video is certainly not suitable for young adults or children wanting to learn about electronics.Regards Wayne
How exactly is mild cursing unsuitable, though? Because it breaks your impression of youths as innocent minds who don't know the foul names for bovine excrement, testes, the glans of the penis, and all the rest? And also, what's with the choice of words, "young adults"? Even if it isn't what you intended, it implies that even a 19 year-old would generally think that cursing is offensive. Maybe the word you're looking for is adolescent?
Yes in hindsight adolescent would have been a better choice.Thank's. Wayne
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: bitwelder on October 11, 2014, 11:40:39 pm
Yes in hindsight adolescent would have been a better choice.Thank's. Wayne
"Thank's" ? What kind of English do you teach to the young generations?  :scared:
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/187006/is-thanks-an-alternative-correct-spelling
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: rolycat on October 12, 2014, 12:29:59 am
Yes in hindsight adolescent would have been a better choice.Thank's. Wayne
"Thank's" ? What kind of English do you teach to the young generations?  :scared:
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/187006/is-thanks-an-alternative-correct-spelling
I'm fairly sure that Wayne is not an English teacher, or even an Australian teacher of English. This is a good thing.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: teda on October 12, 2014, 03:23:45 am
With Marc vencent (Mv) being maligned by Dave, I felt that their chief scientist should be able to respond with a rebuttal. Therefore, on my next remote viewing (RV) experience I was able to contact Mv’s chief scientist and obtain some answers.

For security reasons, Mv’s chief scientist could not give his full name. However, he did agree to give his first and middle name, One Hung. One Hung decided that the best way to describe Mv’s technology is to start from the power supply and work our way to the power amplifiers.

Power cord: Even this item did not escape Mv’s attention to detail. Each cord length used in Mv products are tuned to the fundamental clock frequency of the internal processor. Additionally, the direction the copper is drawn to produce the wire is correctly oriented in relation to the power source.

Power transformer: What Dave does not understand is that Mv transformers are hand wound using only the highest quality oxygen free copper wire around a ferrite core specially formed in our own temperature controlled ovens. Similar to other wire used within Mv products the optimal wire direction is observed during manufacture. I mentioned that the wire used for the transformer seemed “a bit thin” for a 7.1 amplifier. One Hung response was that by using a proprietary twisting of the wire during manufacture; Mv can totally eliminate the “skin effect” of wire and instead use the whole wire for current capacity. The result being a 22 gauge wire can have the specifications of an 8 gauge wire.

Power Capacitors: I mentioned that Dave made remarks that there seemed to be “old glue” on the power supply capacitors. I made the additional comment that 3300 uF seemed a bit low to power 5 amplifiers.  One Hung explained that the “old glue” is actually a proprietary formulation that has a multiplying effect on the capacitance of an electrolytic.  Because of no NDA, he could not go into the chemical details. However, he explained that the multiplying effect is achieved at the quantum level, by reducing the gap of the electrolytic that the electric field experiences.

Extra solder on traces: One Hung appreciated Dave noticing Mv attention to detail by thickening the PCB traces with solder. One Hung added that the solder used to build up the trace thickness is specially developed to speed up the electron velocity thereby reducing the resistance / inductance.

TDA2030V: The ‘V’ is the key One Hung pointed out. These are specialty masked devices that contain a vacuum tube front end so that the Mv amplifiers can have their highly regarded warm audio feel. At this point I asked why the typical 100uF decoupling capacitors were not used near the output devices. One Hung said that the special solder used to improve electron velocity made this unnecessary. While we were on the subject of the output devices, he added that each output device insulator to the heat sink is meticulously characterized. The “pink” and “gray” insulators have slightly different thermal properties in order to allow the output devices to achieve their proper operating temperature. I next mentioned that Dave felt that the wire connecting the output devices to the output board may be “thin”. All One Hung could do is shake his head in disappointment in Dave’s lack of understanding in the finer details of high end audio amplifier design.

Sub Woofer: I could tell One Hung was especially proud of his creation and was devastated to learn that Dave poked holes in it. I could tell it was like losing a child for him and we had to stop the interview till he could compose himself. He explained that the material used to manufacture the cone is composed of many rear-earth metals and it should have been sent back to their manufacturing facilities for proper extraction.

Display: I mentioned to One Hung that one of the Forum members made a remark that the output display meters seemed “upside-down”. One Hung said it may appear this way. However, as all physics majors know, electrons can be accelerated in a magnetic field. As such, Mv takes advantage of the earth’s magnetic field and is able to improve the display response by “dropping” the electrons towards the Earth.

Three Vacuum Tubes: When I mentioned that the three vacuum tubes did not seem connected to anything he gave me a rather perplexing look.  He said “of course not” why would they be? One Hung explained that the “blue light emitters” are projected into the vacuum tube at a specific distance to excite the atoms within. As these atoms transition to a higher energy state an “audio plasma” is created and wirelessly interacts with the vacuum tube front ends within the TDA2030V, helping to produce that distinctive Mv sound.

I had so many more questions to ask to this highly regarded audio design engineer. Sadly our interview had to come to an end since OHL had to get back to his next project. I can speak for all of us audiophiles that we are anxiously awaiting Marc vincent’s next creation.



Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: sonnytiger on October 12, 2014, 03:37:14 am
Brilliant, haha.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: free_electron on October 12, 2014, 06:52:20 am
ST stopped making TDA2030 years ago. it was actually for a long time one of the best integrated audio amps.
Nuvoton is a manufacturer of out-of-licence chips. been around for a long time. not bad quality.


Australia's Got Talent white van speaker scam Mark Vincent (Marc Vincent) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PcfyLl-QLM#ws)

same crap sold under different anme. watch for the rock in the speakers ...
Mclaren BLU-3 Surround Sound (SCAM DO NOT BUY) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J16ZTLa04V8#ws)
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: hikariuk on October 12, 2014, 08:21:21 am
This scam is still doing the rounds?  I remember running in to it last in the mid to late 90s, in the UK.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Topop on October 12, 2014, 04:08:36 pm
Dave,

Great blog as always.  One question though.  What is UP with the UP side down oscilloscope?

Topop

Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: station240 on October 13, 2014, 08:11:29 pm
The VFD is certainly from another product though, there's phosphor panels for modes like Dolby Digital and others that this box certainly doesn't have the capability to decode.

Yeah I have to say, I would have kept the VFD as it's serial driven and perfectly reusable.
Put the toroidal in the drawer to either rewind properly or convert to scrap metal., bin the rest.

Oh and for the record, these scammers have been known to frequent hardware store carparks, as in the places with the oversized carparks and excessive amounts of chinese made goods. Makes perfect sense as you've already proved the customers wouldn't know quality if it fell off the top shelf and hit them on the head!
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: digital on October 13, 2014, 08:42:09 pm
Yes in hindsight adolescent would have been a better choice.Thank's. Wayne
"Thank's" ? What kind of English do you teach to the young generations?  :scared:
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/187006/is-thanks-an-alternative-correct-spelling
I'm fairly sure that Wayne is not an English teacher, or even an Australian teacher of English. This is a good thing.
Explain to me why Wayne is not an English teacher or an Australian teacher of English and why this is a good thing as anyone knows English is an evolving language and why anyone cares.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: nitro2k01 on October 13, 2014, 08:57:14 pm
Explain to me why Wayne is not an English teacher or an Australian teacher of English and why this is a good thing as anyone knows English is an evolving language and why anyone cares.
Having an "evolving language" means that you're open to a reasoned discussion about changes to the language. It does not mean that you get to randomly add or remove characters from words. (Plural is not formed with an apostrophe in English.) If you had, say, used apostrophes consistently for plurals of acronyms (for example CPLD's) you could at least argue that you're guarding against ambiguity with a possible acronym that has an S at the end, but for "thanks" there's absolutely no logical reason to put an apostrophe there.

If everyone just do as they please, the written language just becomes an unreadable mess. The joke here is of course that you opened up yourself to attacks on your own use of language the second that you complained about somebody else's use of language. (Dave's cursing.)  Which you still haven't explained why it's harmful to minors, btw.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: EEVblog on October 13, 2014, 10:38:59 pm
Yeah I have to say, I would have kept the VFD as it's serial driven and perfectly reusable.

I did.

Quote
Put the toroidal in the drawer to either rewind properly or convert to scrap metal., bin the rest.

Kept that too.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: EEVblog on October 13, 2014, 10:41:30 pm
Drop some nicely looking gear near the EEVblog corporate tower's dumpster Dave will take it, and he will only realize he was scammed after the twitter messages  :-DD

Yeah, I had no idea what these were until people starting tweeting me back about it. Would have become obvious once I googled them though.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: EEVblog on October 13, 2014, 11:04:43 pm
David_AVD beat me to it. It is what it is.
Dave is that comment supposed to be meaningful.

Yes. But clearly you are unable to understand any implied meaning behind that, so let me try and explain.
I run a video blog with 175,000 subscribers. My videos get viewed over 45,000 times every day. That means there are a lot of people telling me what they like and don't like, what I should and shouldn't say, how I should or shouldn't do something, how I should or shouldn't talk, etc, etc.
Well, guess what, it is an absolute impossibility to please everyone, so the only thing left for content producers like me to do is to simply continue to do what they want to do, and say what they want to say.
Indeed, you could say my success is in a large part based on the way I tell it like it is and my colorful use of language.
You either chose to watch, or not. And if you are a parent, then you either chose to allow your child to watch, or not.
My content and my choice of words will live or die in the open marketplace of content. I, or any other content producer has precisely zero responsibility to talk in a way that some anonymous forum user wants them to talk.
If there is one thing a content producer does not like, something that pisses them off the most, is people telling them what they should or shouldn't say.
You get no say in that, ever.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Fungus on October 13, 2014, 11:42:04 pm
If they were going for dirt cheap why would they use a toroidal? Even my Yamaha RX-596 uses a standard e core.
What gives?

A lot of the parts in that thing looked second hand to me. Pulled out of old equipment.

(Or even third hand - look at those caps, and that relay....no way did they just come out of a factory)

Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: timb on October 13, 2014, 11:42:15 pm

Indeed, you could say my success is in a large part based on the way I tell it like it is and my colorful use of language.
Hey Dave. Can you spell colourful properly.  ;)

He did. :P


Sent from my Smartphone
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: SeanB on October 14, 2014, 06:30:07 am
Speaking of YT subscribers, I was listening today to Hello Internet, in which they were talking about the golden play button you get from YT when you hit the million subs mark.

http://www.hellointernet.fm/podcast/22 (http://www.hellointernet.fm/podcast/22)

Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: callipso on October 14, 2014, 06:30:47 am
Dave,

Great blog as always.  One question though.  What is UP with the UP side down oscilloscope?

Topop

Never heard of Australia, the land down under?
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: ConKbot on October 14, 2014, 11:08:18 am
Dave,

Great blog as always.  One question though.  What is UP with the UP side down oscilloscope?

Topop

Never heard of Australia, the land down under?

http://i.imgur.com/G8CTj.gif (http://i.imgur.com/G8CTj.gif)
spot the Aussie :p

and/or spot the new visitor to Australia
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: nitro2k01 on October 14, 2014, 01:24:03 pm
http://i.imgur.com/G8CTj.gif (http://i.imgur.com/G8CTj.gif)
spot the Aussie :p

and/or spot the new visitor to Australia
There's a Swedish joke from the time we switched over from left hand traffic to right hand traffic. One person wasn't informed of the switch-over and still drove on the left side of the road. Consequently, the traffic news issued a waning that one person was driving on the wrong sid of the road, on the road to such and such. This guy, listening to the broadcast: "One? More like ALL OF THEM!"
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Richard Crowley on October 14, 2014, 01:52:55 pm
If you look around the poker table and you can't tell who the mark is, it is probably YOU.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: EEVblog on October 14, 2014, 11:29:11 pm
Speaking of YT subscribers, I was listening today to Hello Internet, in which they were talking about the golden play button you get from YT when you hit the million subs mark.

I won't have even hit 600K by 2019:
http://socialblade.com/youtube/user/eevblog/futureprojections (http://socialblade.com/youtube/user/eevblog/futureprojections)
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: SeanB on October 15, 2014, 05:47:22 am
You do rate for silver, still good.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2667769?hl=en

Unlike me where I have yet to get to the hundred mark.......
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: digital on October 15, 2014, 08:59:33 pm
David_AVD beat me to it. It is what it is.
Dave is that comment supposed to be meaningful.

Yes. But clearly you are unable to understand any implied meaning behind that, so let me try and explain.
I run a video blog with 175,000 subscribers. My videos get viewed over 45,000 times every day. That means there are a lot of people telling me what they like and don't like, what I should and shouldn't say, how I should or shouldn't do something, how I should or shouldn't talk, etc, etc.
Well, guess what, it is an absolute impossibility to please everyone, so the only thing left for content producers like me to do is to simply continue to do what they want to do, and say what they want to say.
Indeed, you could say my success is in a large part based on the way I tell it like it is and my colorful use of language.
You either chose to watch, or not. And if you are a parent, then you either chose to allow your child to watch, or not.
My content and my choice of words will live or die in the open marketplace of content. I, or any other content producer has precisely zero responsibility to talk in a way that some anonymous forum user wants them to talk.
If there is one thing a content producer does not like, something that pisses them off the most, is people telling them what they should or shouldn't say.
You get no say in that, ever.

Thank you Dave that is all that I wanted,I know that it is virtually suicidal to comment on a blog that is not related to the main content of that blog I enjoy your comments and teardowns.Regards Wayne

MOD: Fixed quotes.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: timb on October 15, 2014, 10:33:45 pm
Beats isn't a scam and they're not exactly crap.

If I'm listening to Biggie preach The Ten Crack Commandments, I don't really care so much about all the nuances of the music coming out; what I want is pounding bass that makes the fucking fillings in my teeth vibrate.

That aside, it's a fashion item, no different than carrying a Louis Vuitton handbag or Tag Heuer watch.

The fact the headphones come in so many color and style combinations, combined with Dr. See being behind it, it's no wonder they're popular

Hell, I even own a pair. They're great when I want to feel some bass but can't disturb the neighbors.

I also own a pair of Sennheiser HD-650s for when I want to "hear the music" or whatever.

Not every piece of audio gear has to be for the same exact purpose.


Sent from my Smartphone
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: pplaninsky on October 15, 2014, 10:35:32 pm
One of my favourite Brit TV series is "Hustle".
Yeah, I know that they are glorifying and presenting in a romantic way the 'grifters' and probably things in the real world is nothing like this, but the con men from "Hustle" have a nice credo:

"You can't cheat an honest man."

And I think it is generally true.

Even if the guys from the white van are selling real merchandise on low prices under pretext that something happened and they just need to get rid of it - everybody could think 10 seconds and conclude, that either these goods are stolen or there is something else going wrong and the sellers are bunch of liars.

So, you see - the scam is possible just because there are buyers, who unscrupulously will buy anything, even if they are guessing that there is something wrong with the deal.
No matter if it is a genuine merchandise or fake.
But when it turns fake - you should remember your thoughts or intuition that probably something was wrong with the deal and that your greedy side took over.
... and now you are punished for you greed.

I am always saying that for such things to happen - there need to be two sides - seller and buyer.

If, we, people were perfect and 100% honest - such scammers would have just died out of hunger - no sell will be possible.
So, generally they feed of our greed - that's it.

In this specific instance, it's true that the scammers are appealing to people's greed, but it is dangerous nonsense to claim that honesty will somehow protect you from grifters.

Rather than basing your theories on a fictional series, you might want to take a look at a related TV show called "The Real Hustle", in which a variety of cons used in real life are demonstrated on unsuspecting members of the public. Many of these exploit confusion, compassion, or any number of entirely worthy human impulses.

What sort of 'greed' do you think the scumbags who extort vast sums of money by frightening elderly residents into worthless 'repairs' to their homes are exploiting? Or fake 'charity workers' who are simply lining their own pockets?

I really didn't think it up from this angle.
Yeah, you are correct - that there is always the other side - where cons are based on fear or confusion.
Thanks for pointing out this!
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: EEVblog on October 15, 2014, 10:58:16 pm
You do rate for silver, still good.
https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2667769?hl=en

Didn't know that!
I guess they'll contact me in due course...
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: SeanB on October 16, 2014, 05:40:18 am
Click the link and follow the rewards application process..... they supposedly will get to you in a few days. That would be a nice mailbag segment to watch.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: TMM on October 17, 2014, 07:28:32 pm
Just wanted to say that the custom video thumbnails are really cheesy. Bright green text - check, all capitals - check, exclamation marks - check, common font - check. Really cheapens the look and feel of the channel.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: hexpope on November 05, 2014, 02:23:04 am
Here is one of the scam guys at it too with the same gear in action.  :-DD

scam artists at their trade, run into cameraman @ his (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwFKijygRxE#)
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Arlen moulton on November 16, 2014, 05:12:30 am
Dave you may not be aware of it but your language in the video is certainly not suitable for young adults or children wanting to learn about electronics.Regards Wayne
"Young Adults"  !!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_adult_%28psychology%29[/url

Don't want to permanently scar those poor 20 to 40 year olds!

Remember kids... if you hear someone say "SHIT" you might become a serial killer!
 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_adult_%28psychology%29)
oy I'm 12 and I'm sure I'm not the only one
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: c4757p on November 16, 2014, 05:15:01 am
oy I'm 12 and I'm sure I'm not the only one

Twelve-year-olds can handle "shit" too. Right?
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Arlen moulton on November 16, 2014, 05:32:21 am
Well I'm in highschool with all the teen rebels I know a lot worse than that but that is probably the worst wo4d I'll tolorate is that projector still in one peace and beats are the worst speaker company I know other than Morrisons the supermarket
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: janengelbrecht on November 16, 2014, 05:35:19 am
I think its a cool radio alarmclock....normally found for about 10$.....why the big case ? :P It has no clock ? damn...
Well first of all....there is a lot of fraud in the consumer electronics business....the greatest of them all: Bang & Olufsen from Denmark..
You pay for the case only...the electronics is worth about 1% of the price :P
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Arlen moulton on November 16, 2014, 05:37:45 am
I th9ught pissant was hilarious though :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD cant believe I didn't notice the "hand wound turroidal transformer" though |O
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Arlen moulton on November 16, 2014, 05:42:52 am
I think its a cool radio alarmclock....normally found for about 10$.....why the big case ? :P It has no clock ? damn...
Well first of all....there is a lot of fraud in the consumer electronics business....the greatest of them all: Bang & Olufsen from Denmark..
You pay for the case only...the electronics is worth about 1% of the price
radio alarm clock! I think a stuffed pig would sound better than that IE silent :P :A and as for that projector I think my 6 year old grinding has the same if not better specs than that
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Arlen moulton on November 16, 2014, 05:46:35 am
My ikkigarmi monitor is black and whit3 and probably works better
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: c4757p on November 16, 2014, 08:03:20 am
Well I'm in highschool with all the teen rebels I know a lot worse than that but that is probably the worst wo4d I'll tolorate

They're words, they don't hurt.

Also - punctuation, dude.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Arlen moulton on November 16, 2014, 08:16:44 pm
Yeah well maybe I don't like to hear that sort of language any way this is not related to scam speakers
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: kizzap on November 16, 2014, 08:47:13 pm
Yeah well maybe I don't like to hear that sort of language any way this is not related to scam speakers

Throwing it out there, if you don't want to hear the language, then maybe this isn't the place for you to be. Generally speaking the internet is a very adult place. If you can't deal with a little vulgarity then maybe you shouldn't be on it. Hell, I don't think a 12 y/o should be on the internet unsupervised full stop...
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: nitro2k01 on November 17, 2014, 03:31:17 am
Speaking of language. Arlen, maybe you should put some effort into writing correctly punctuated and spelled sentences. Swear words might offend you, but that shit grinds my gears.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Arlen moulton on November 17, 2014, 04:16:20 am
The auto correct on this tablet is crap so I can't do much about that sorry :(
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: wraper on November 17, 2014, 04:21:51 am
The auto correct on this tablet is crap so I can't do much about that sorry :(
Disable it?
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Arlen moulton on November 17, 2014, 04:26:52 am
Doesn't disable
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: wraper on November 17, 2014, 04:31:53 am
Doesn't disable
Yes it does, you just did not found how. In android as well as on apple devices it is not obvious at all. You should dig somewhere deep in the settings IIRC.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: nitro2k01 on November 17, 2014, 04:43:43 am
Touch devices are great for playing Angry Birds. And Flappy Bird. Generally, games with birds. Typing and other serious stuff, not so much.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: timb on November 17, 2014, 05:20:02 am

Dave you may not be aware of it but your language in the video is certainly not suitable for young adults or children wanting to learn about electronics.Regards Wayne
"Young Adults"  !!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_adult_%28psychology%29[/url

Don't want to permanently scar those poor 20 to 40 year olds!

Remember kids... if you hear someone say "SHIT" you might become a serial killer!
 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_adult_%28psychology%29)
oy I'm 12 and I'm sure I'm not the only one

You're 12? I think I see the problem here, you must be looking for the "White Van Free Candy Scam" thread. (http://img.timb.us/emoticon/laugh.gif)


Sent from my Smartphone
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: TheBay on November 17, 2014, 07:12:28 am
I would never fall for a White Van Scam. Would love to encounter one for giggles though. However I fell for something worse, I have joined a cult. Naim audio lol
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Arlen moulton on November 17, 2014, 07:35:57 am
Hey timb I don't even like stupid candy anyway the next person to say anything negative about me or vintage radios will be seriously sorry they didn't because I think that radios are gold
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: c4757p on November 17, 2014, 07:43:18 am
Yeah well maybe I don't like to hear that sort of language any way this is not related to scam speakers

If I complained about everything I didn't like to see, hear or smell, you all would never hear the end of it. Fortunately for you, my eyes, ears and nose are for observing the world around me - they're inputs, not outputs, so I can't control what enters them.

Besides, I've always figured that if people are going to get hung up on the way something is being said, rather than what is being said, it was probably just going in one ear and out the other anyway. It'd serve you well to listen to the content and not the presentation.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: SeanB on November 17, 2014, 07:49:10 am
My newest radio is about 20 years old.............
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Arlen moulton on November 17, 2014, 07:58:06 am
My newest is 30and my oldest is81
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: timb on November 17, 2014, 08:53:36 pm

Hey timb I don't even like stupid candy anyway the next person to say anything negative about me or vintage radios will be seriously sorry they didn't because I think that radios are gold

Good, I'll fill the van with these:

(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/17/ca30118a1309119aa3cf47a6b3140a02.jpg)

Who listens to radios any more? Other than old people who can't miss Fresh Air on NPR or Rush Limbaugh on AM Talk Radio.

I like to restore vintage MP3 players myself.


Sent from my Smartphone
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: rolycat on November 17, 2014, 09:59:52 pm
You'll never lure anyone into a white van with those nasty things. You need to use proper Smarties:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bc/Smarties-UK-Box-Small.jpg)

Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: baljemmett on November 18, 2014, 03:01:09 am
You'll never lure anyone into a white van with those nasty things. You need to use proper Smarties:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bc/Smarties-UK-Box-Small.jpg)

Whoa - what have they done to the tube?!  Obviously I live under a rock.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: SeanB on November 18, 2014, 03:24:02 am
Still in the rectangular box here, and in a few sizes of box as well. Bad thing is that every new batch is in the same size box, but the mass decreases a little each time. Beginning of the year it was 100g, now it is down to 70g in the pack. Price though has gone up 30% in the interim then per unit, even more so per mass unit though.

Gave up on chocolate, other than Lindt bars............ The 100% cocoa ones of course.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: rolycat on November 18, 2014, 06:05:14 am
Whoa - what have they done to the tube?!  Obviously I live under a rock.
Apparently - they replaced the old cylindrical tubes in the UK more than ten years ago.
There is still a giant tube on sale:

(http://images3.mysupermarket.co.uk/Products_1000/48/345948.jpg)

Unfortunately the lid seems to be hinged - presumably to stop today's generation of kids from firing it across the classroom by whacking the empty tube.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: TheBay on November 18, 2014, 08:44:10 am
Whoa - what have they done to the tube?!  Obviously I live under a rock.
Apparently - they replaced the old cylindrical tubes in the UK more than ten years ago.
There is still a giant tube on sale:

(http://images3.mysupermarket.co.uk/Products_1000/48/345948.jpg)

Unfortunately the lid seems to be hinged - presumably to stop today's generation of kids from firing it across the classroom by whacking the empty tube.
I had no idea they got rid of the tubes. I just asked my girlfriend about this and she confirmed it. I remember blowing down the tube and popping the top off!

They tried to ban the blue ones as kids could confuse it with tablets or something daft back in the 80s.
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Excavatoree on November 18, 2014, 09:01:32 am
Sorry for the late language comment.   I know many here don't care for him or his videos, but I like Photonicinduction's warning on his videos:

"Warning:  Contains man words."
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Arlen moulton on November 25, 2014, 06:47:32 am
With Marc vencent (Mv) being maligned by Dave, I felt that their chief scientist should be able to respond with a rebuttal. Therefore, on my next remote viewing (RV) experience I was able to contact Mv’s chief scientist and obtain some answers.

For security reasons, Mv’s chief scientist could not give his full name. However, he did agree to give his first and middle name, One Hung. One Hung decided that the best way to describe Mv’s technology is to start from the power supply and work our way to the power amplifiers.

Power cord: Even this item did not escape Mv’s attention to detail. Each cord length used in Mv products are tuned to the fundamental clock frequency of the internal processor. Additionally, the direction the copper is drawn to produce the wire is correctly oriented in relation to the power source.

Power transformer: What Dave does not understand is that Mv transformers are hand wound using only the highest quality oxygen free copper wire around a ferrite core specially formed in our own temperature controlled ovens. Similar to other wire used within Mv products the optimal wire direction is observed during manufacture. I mentioned that the wire used for the transformer seemed “a bit thin” for a 7.1 amplifier. One Hung response was that by using a proprietary twisting of the wire during manufacture; Mv can totally eliminate the “skin effect” of wire and instead use the whole wire for current capacity. The result being a 22 gauge wire can have the specifications of an 8 gauge wire.

Power Capacitors: I mentioned that Dave made remarks that there seemed to be “old glue” on the power supply capacitors. I made the additional comment that 3300 uF seemed a bit low to power 5 amplifiers.  One Hung explained that the “old glue” is actually a proprietary formulation that has a multiplying effect on the capacitance of an electrolytic.  Because of no NDA, he could not go into the chemical details. However, he explained that the multiplying effect is achieved at the quantum level, by reducing the gap of the electrolytic that the electric field experiences.

Extra solder on traces: One Hung appreciated Dave noticing Mv attention to detail by thickening the PCB traces with solder. One Hung added that the solder used to build up the trace thickness is specially developed to speed up the electron velocity thereby reducing the resistance / inductance.

TDA2030V: The ‘V’ is the key One Hung pointed out. These are specialty masked devices that contain a vacuum tube front end so that the Mv amplifiers can have their highly regarded warm audio feel. At this point I asked why the typical 100uF decoupling capacitors were not used near the output devices. One Hung said that the special solder used to improve electron velocity made this unnecessary. While we were on the subject of the output devices, he added that each output device insulator to the heat sink is meticulously characterized. The “pink” and “gray” insulators have slightly different thermal properties in order to allow the output devices to achieve their proper operating temperature. I next mentioned that Dave felt that the wire connecting the output devices to the output board may be “thin”. All One Hung could do is shake his head in disappointment in Dave’s lack of understanding in the finer details of high end audio amplifier design.

Sub Woofer: I could tell One Hung was especially proud of his creation and was devastated to learn that Dave poked holes in it. I could tell it was like losing a child for him and we had to stop the interview till he could compose himself. He explained that the material used to manufacture the cone is composed of many rear-earth metals and it should have been sent back to their manufacturing facilities for proper extraction.

Display: I mentioned to One Hung that one of the Forum members made a remark that the output display meters seemed “upside-down”. One Hung said it may appear this way. However, as all physics majors know, electrons can be accelerated in a magnetic field. As such, Mv takes advantage of the earth’s magnetic field and is able to improve the display response by “dropping” the electrons towards the Earth.

Three Vacuum Tubes: When I mentioned that the three vacuum tubes did not seem connected to anything he gave me a rather perplexing look.  He said “of course not” why would they be? One Hung explained that the “blue light emitters” are projected into the vacuum tube at a specific distance to excite the atoms within. As these atoms transition to a higher energy state an “audio plasma” is created and wirelessly interacts with the vacuum tube front ends within the TDA2030V, helping to produce that distinctive Mv sound.

I had so many more questions to ask to this highly regarded audio design engineer. Sadly our interview had to come to an end since OHL had to get back to his next project. I can speak for all of us audiophiles that we are anxiously awaiting Marc vincent’s next creation.
wank wank wank that isn't scientifically or electronically possible and if they really want to become any better they should try getting a scientist that doesn't lie with every word they speak
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: N2IXK on November 25, 2014, 07:07:24 am
wank wank wank that isn't scientifically or electronically possible and if they really want to become any better they should try getting a scientist that doesn't lie with every word they speak
Woosh! (sound of obvious joke going way over your head) :-//
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Arlen moulton on November 25, 2014, 08:01:37 am
Is it àn obvious joke or are facts going woosh over your head
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: David_AVD on November 25, 2014, 08:19:04 am
Is it àn obvious joke or are facts going woosh over your head

yes, the joke was obvious.   ;D
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Richard Crowley on November 25, 2014, 09:43:18 am
Is it àn obvious joke or are facts going woosh over your head
Are you trying to pull a joke on US?
Surely you can't possibly believe that is anything but a complete parody.
It is first-class wank from the first word to the last.  Well done!   :clap:
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: EvilGeniusSkis on November 25, 2014, 03:20:33 pm

Hey timb I don't even like stupid candy anyway the next person to say anything negative about me or vintage radios will be seriously sorry they didn't because I think that radios are gold

Good, I'll fill the van with these:

(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/11/17/ca30118a1309119aa3cf47a6b3140a02.jpg)


where I come from we call those rockets
Who listens to radios any more? Other than old people who can't miss Fresh Air on NPR or Rush Limbaugh on AM Talk Radio.

I like to restore vintage MP3 players myself.


Sent from my Smartphone
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: Monittosan on December 30, 2014, 01:11:37 am
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/OZ-Audio-6-x-9-Hi-End-Coaxial-Speakers-USA-Made-Audiophile-Brand-RRP-269/130945830730?_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140122130056%26meid%3D125ab7e88b274f55a48dde3d1d2ae48a%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D20140122130056%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D24%26sd%3D111560214157 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/OZ-Audio-6-x-9-Hi-End-Coaxial-Speakers-USA-Made-Audiophile-Brand-RRP-269/130945830730?_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555012%26algo%3DPW.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140122130056%26meid%3D125ab7e88b274f55a48dde3d1d2ae48a%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D20140122130056%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D24%26sd%3D111560214157)

The description in this reminded me of this video lol. Iv got a feeling OZ audio are related somehow  :-DD
Title: Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
Post by: kaveendra on May 04, 2016, 02:14:54 pm
This video is old, but topic keeps getting younger. Having watched that, I could save a friend before falling victim to such a scam, so thanks David  :-+

The recent brand is "Commercial-Theatre", and can be found in streets and parking lots of NSW these days. Search "Commercial-" on gumtree, you you will find how many people trying to re-sell the crap.

I have found there are many variations of "Commercial" brand circulating, so following list might help somebody before getting ripped off.

commercial-theatre.com
commercial-hd.com
commercial-3d.com
theatrefidelity.com
commercial-av.net

I am sure there are others, but this is what I found so far.