Author Topic: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown  (Read 51539 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Naahuel

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 18
  • Country: ar
    • Nahuel
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2014, 05:37:43 am »
I started looking at videos of people "reviewing" the products after they found out they were scammed.


This one is hilarious. The front panel fell off when he opened the box and when he opened one of the speakers there was a rock inside, hahaha.

I don't know if it counts, really, but there's a brand over here called "Thonet & Vander" (http://www.thonet-vander.com/). Allegedly german design. Turns out, it's a local company who buys chinese speakers and re-brands them. The difference is that they're not cheap at all and they do a REALLY good job with the branding. Like, really well designed packagings, leaflets, manuals, badges, etc. it's remarkable! But people have found the exact same ones from a chinese (and cheap) brand.

I have a set (the Hoch) and I actually love them :P ahaha They claim 70 Watts but I'm not sure it can deliver that much. Still, pretty decent sound.
 

Offline calexanian

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1867
  • Country: us
    • Alex-Tronix
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2014, 06:26:25 am »
If they were not they are now after the pins are bent. The seals will have cracked, so in another few months the tube will be white as air gets in.

The dumet seal is better and more pliable than one might imagine.

They are real 6N1 tubes. They are available on the surplus market in china and Russia in the sub fifty cents range, and there are probably throw away noisy ones they got for pennies. They propably were going to light the filaments but realized they are so far inside the cathodes on those tubes they don't show through and went with plan B with the LED's. Otherwise they would have just glued them down and not bothered with the PCB for them to sit in.
Charles Alexanian
Alex-Tronix Control Systems
 

Offline bktemp

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1623
  • Country: de
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2014, 07:29:27 am »
The glue on the main caps of the amplifier has a different colour than other glue used. They are probably used parts from other equipment, so they could be genuine nippon.

The HID lamp in the projector is powered from a simple magnetic ballast. The light is therefore modulated with double the mains frequency. I expect some real crappy performance when the light frequency is interfering with the video framrate. Normal projectors often use lamps powered with dc current or at least electonic ballasts running at a higher frequency.
 

Offline amyk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6482
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2014, 07:50:58 am »
The prices on that projector's site would've been more reasonable for something of that (real, not the one on the site) spec in the mid 90s... and it looks like even that type of projector is obsolete among the low-end in China now, since all the projectors I could find on Alibaba are using LEDs instead of HID lamps. I wonder if there's a strange trend towards using enormous lenses, since they all have bigger ones (relative to the body) than Dave's.

Here's one with what looks like the exact same UI:
http://deve-s.en.alibaba.com/product/491842079-209761600/1080p_led_projector_HD_projector_with_TV_Tuner.html

2200 lumens, 600:1 contrast, 800x600 resolution ("supports up to 1080p" via downsampling), and the same set of inputs.

There's others with slightly different specs (e.g. 50W instead of 80W LED, so lower contrast and brightness) like this one
http://oley.en.alibaba.com/product/565915459-50328992/low_cost_home_theater_projector_with_hdmi_built_in_tv_tuner.html

but they're all in the $100-200 range. Probably usable in a dark room (i.e. a home theater) for watching DVDs or regular TV...

There are also 320 x 240 projectors on Alibaba for <$100, with an HDMI input. I have no idea what those could possibly be useful for.
 

Offline Legit-Design

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 562
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2014, 07:56:53 am »
Some sweet diy projectors I was browsing some time ago.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/diy-projectors/33356-diy-projector-philippines-84.html


I think you could actually get a Full HD panel for that thing for reasonable price on ebay.

Diy projector kits can also give good results.

http://www.beamer-selbstbau.de/product_info.php/info/p224_WM-Special-HDready-Beamer-Teile.html
 

Offline JoeMuc2013

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 21
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2014, 08:12:02 am »
*lol*
Reminded me of the British high-end devices of the late 80s and early 90s. The crappier they were, the more enthusiastic audio magazine reports would report about them. Originating in GB plus having an ugly mostly plastic housing, being hopelessly overpriced, featuring uncapped potentiometers and corroding input selectors (if any) qualified almost any device to be top gear those days. They had actual audio qualities (usually with minuscule output power) though. But nothing that heavyweight Japanese actual high-end gear such as Accuphase could not outdo in any aspect.
The hype was powered by well-known brand names and high-end gurus who stood behind the GB products, advertising crazy strategies such as using only 90-degree angles in internal cabling, painting CD edges green, using bell wire in critical places and putting amplifiers on a tilt because they would sound better. And many people actually believed that.
Who knows, maybe these mystics are not all gone. The Marc Vincent looks like it is all of that mixed into one.
 

Offline digital

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 47
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2014, 08:26:19 am »
Dave you may not be aware of it but your language in the video is certainly not suitable for young adults or children wanting to learn about electronics.Regards Wayne
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11996
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2014, 08:40:18 am »
Love the valves!  Have seen a few bits of fake valve gear (guitar effects pedals) before, but they at least had the heaters wired up so the otherwise useless valves would at least light up.
It looked like the PCB was tracked to allow the heaters to be connected, if the pins had been soldered.
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline David_AVD

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2600
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2014, 08:54:53 am »
Dave you may not be aware of it but your language in the video is certainly not suitable for young adults or children wanting to learn about electronics.

It is what it is.  Not all content on the Internet is suitable for all ages.   ;)
 

Offline Smokey

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1584
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2014, 09:11:26 am »
Dave you may not be aware of it but your language in the video is certainly not suitable for young adults or children wanting to learn about electronics.Regards Wayne
"Young Adults"  !!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_adult_%28psychology%29

Don't want to permanently scar those poor 20 to 40 year olds!

Remember kids... if you hear someone say "SHIT" you might become a serial killer!

 

Offline Rasz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2277
  • Country: 00
    • My random blog.
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2014, 10:24:13 am »
very oldschool back of the van scam

https://youtu.be/nvMlnvkn0Kc?t=1m51s


goes back to 70-80s


btw those caps and relay actually look 100% genuine, just recycled from junk piles
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
My fireplace is on fire, but in all the wrong places.
 

Offline pplaninsky

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 17
  • Country: de
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2014, 10:35:16 am »
One of my favourite Brit TV series is "Hustle".
Yeah, I know that they are glorifying and presenting in a romantic way the 'grifters' and probably things in the real world is nothing like this, but the con men from "Hustle" have a nice credo:

"You can't cheat an honest man."

And I think it is generally true.

Even if the guys from the white van are selling real merchandise on low prices under pretext that something happened and they just need to get rid of it - everybody could think 10 seconds and conclude, that either these goods are stolen or there is something else going wrong and the sellers are bunch of liars.

So, you see - the scam is possible just because there are buyers, who unscrupulously will buy anything, even if they are guessing that there is something wrong with the deal.
No matter if it is a genuine merchandise or fake.
But when it turns fake - you should remember your thoughts or intuition that probably something was wrong with the deal and that your greedy side took over.
... and now you are punished for you greed.

I am always saying that for such things to happen - there need to be two sides - seller and buyer.

If, we, people were perfect and 100% honest - such scammers would have just died out of hunger - no sell will be possible.
So, generally they feed of our greed - that's it.
 

Offline rolycat

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1090
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2014, 11:26:28 am »
One of my favourite Brit TV series is "Hustle".
Yeah, I know that they are glorifying and presenting in a romantic way the 'grifters' and probably things in the real world is nothing like this, but the con men from "Hustle" have a nice credo:

"You can't cheat an honest man."

And I think it is generally true.

Even if the guys from the white van are selling real merchandise on low prices under pretext that something happened and they just need to get rid of it - everybody could think 10 seconds and conclude, that either these goods are stolen or there is something else going wrong and the sellers are bunch of liars.

So, you see - the scam is possible just because there are buyers, who unscrupulously will buy anything, even if they are guessing that there is something wrong with the deal.
No matter if it is a genuine merchandise or fake.
But when it turns fake - you should remember your thoughts or intuition that probably something was wrong with the deal and that your greedy side took over.
... and now you are punished for you greed.

I am always saying that for such things to happen - there need to be two sides - seller and buyer.

If, we, people were perfect and 100% honest - such scammers would have just died out of hunger - no sell will be possible.
So, generally they feed of our greed - that's it.

In this specific instance, it's true that the scammers are appealing to people's greed, but it is dangerous nonsense to claim that honesty will somehow protect you from grifters.

Rather than basing your theories on a fictional series, you might want to take a look at a related TV show called "The Real Hustle", in which a variety of cons used in real life are demonstrated on unsuspecting members of the public. Many of these exploit confusion, compassion, or any number of entirely worthy human impulses.

What sort of 'greed' do you think the scumbags who extort vast sums of money by frightening elderly residents into worthless 'repairs' to their homes are exploiting? Or fake 'charity workers' who are simply lining their own pockets?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 11:30:24 am by rolycat »
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29676
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2014, 12:06:24 pm »
Dave you may not be aware of it but your language in the video is certainly not suitable for young adults or children wanting to learn about electronics.Regards Wayne

David_AVD beat me to it. It is what it is.
 

Offline N2IXK

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 694
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2014, 12:07:56 pm »
Love the valves!  Have seen a few bits of fake valve gear (guitar effects pedals) before, but they at least had the heaters wired up so the otherwise useless valves would at least light up.
It looked like the PCB was tracked to allow the heaters to be connected, if the pins had been soldered.

Look closely at the PCB.  Each valve location has pins 2 through 8 connected together, with pin 1 connected separately and pin 9 left unconnected.  All the pin 1 terminals are bussed together, and all the pin 2-8 terminals are bussed together.

All well and good, but the usual heater pins on a 9 pin miniature valve (including the 6N1 used here) are pins 4 and 5!  And if they originally intended to use one of the 12V dual triodes with the center tapped 12.6V heater (and run it from 6V), the required center tap comes out on the unconnected pin 9!

Not aware of any nine pin valve with one end of the heater on pin 1. Maybe some Chinese oddball? :-// My best guess is that they originally wanted to use something like an ECC83, but screwed up the PCB layout and used pin 1 instead of pin 9 for one side of the heater. Then they said "screw it", skipped the sockets, and shoved any valves they could get into the board and bent the pins over to hold them in!
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 12:24:22 pm by N2IXK »
"My favorite programming language is...SOLDER!"--Robert A. Pease
 

Offline Towger

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1551
  • Country: ie
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #40 on: October 08, 2014, 01:14:43 pm »
Is it just me or is the video quality a little weird on this episode?

What's the problem?

The new lens/camera combo you started to use with the new bench head shots has what I shall call a 'soft focus'.  It is noticeable when viewed on a large computer monitor at full 1080, especially when you switch lens/camera for bench shots which have a sharper/clearer focus.

That projector looks like a DIY design put into production, it is nothing like standard 3 LCD or DLP model. Probable has a standard LCD panel in side to say nothing of the standard 'domestic' HID lamp.  The amp looks like something Amstrad would sell in the late 80's...
 

Offline m100

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 143
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #41 on: October 08, 2014, 02:11:07 pm »
The power transistors at around 16 mins could be 2SA1695 & 2SC4468, the logo looks like Sanken.
 

Offline dexters_lab

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1799
  • Country: gb
    • DextersLab2013
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #42 on: October 08, 2014, 02:14:21 pm »
nice vid, i lol'ed at the bargraphs on the display, they are running upside down!

with note to the focus, i have noticed this before too, i think sometimes the camera is focusing on the racks of kit behind. I would have mentioned it before but these things dont bother me O0
"A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." - Douglas Adams
https://www.youtube.com/user/DextersLab2013
http://dexterslab2013.blogspot.co.uk/
 

Offline N2IXK

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 694
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2014, 02:24:36 pm »
The power transistors at around 16 mins could be 2SA1695 & 2SC4468, the logo looks like Sanken.

Those look to be the output transistors for the subwoofer channel. If they are actual Sanken, they must be recycled like the filter caps and relay were.   Sanken audio power transistors are widely counterfeited:

http://sound.westhost.com/fake/counterfeit-p2.htm
"My favorite programming language is...SOLDER!"--Robert A. Pease
 

Offline coppice

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4617
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #44 on: October 08, 2014, 03:14:37 pm »
Also, Nuvoton is a big brand name, they manufacture big core logic that's currently used on servers(Dell and HP ones at least, current generation, and that's top dollar), the SoC has the system video card, a full embedded processor core, MII ethernet ports, usb KVM control logic, ram interface, etc etc and all of that makes the out of band management system
Pretty much every PC motherboard has a Nuvoton chip for its voltage and temperature monitoring. Dave has this tendency to think everything in a nasty product is nasty without much checking.
 

Offline williefleete

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 109
  • Country: nz
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #45 on: October 08, 2014, 03:39:19 pm »
I LOLed at the fact the "valves" werent even hooked up  :-DD :-DD. whoever decided to put blue LEDs under them were amateurs, valves dont glow blue unless they are gassy ::) they should have gone for orange LEDs or some tungsten lamps at reduced voltage for that "authentic" valve look O0 ::)
 

Offline cloudscapes

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 197
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #46 on: October 08, 2014, 04:06:22 pm »
nice score on the Marantz, they make really good gear (assuming it's a real one)! Bit surprised that was thrown out. Then tend to last decades, and people often put in the extra effort to fix them.
 

Online NiHaoMike

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5532
  • Country: us
  • "Don't turn it on - Take it apart!"
    • Facebook Page
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #47 on: October 08, 2014, 04:14:19 pm »
Should have saved that speaker for a "Photonicinduction style PMPO test"...

And then there's Beats, essentially the same scam nicely hidden in retail packaging.
http://www.vox.com/2014/5/29/5761084/sound-experts-agree-beats-by-dre-arent-anything-special
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/09/beats-headphones-reviews_n_5294628.html

No clue what's going to happen now that Beats is owned by Apple. Either they will improve it to the point where it's no longer a scam (though still not good value) or critics will use that as a strike against Apple.
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

Cryptocurrency lesson 0: Altcoins and Bitcoin are not the same thing.
 

Offline SeanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15091
  • Country: za
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #48 on: October 08, 2014, 04:15:52 pm »
Neighbours would complain of the noise, sounding better than the strangled chipmunks they use for speakers........
 

Offline firewalker

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2328
  • Country: gr
Re: EEVblog #671 - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown
« Reply #49 on: October 08, 2014, 05:57:30 pm »
Someone can find our "white vans" at highway car stops. Like this story:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/its-an-ipad!!!/

Alexander.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 06:00:49 pm by firewalker »
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf