Author Topic: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems  (Read 396780 times)

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Offline RigolTechUSA

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #475 on: November 26, 2014, 11:32:47 pm »
Rigol has created updated firmware for the MSO1000Z and DS1000Z series of scopes in immediate response to the issues found by Dave and the EEVBlog community.

   Firmware has passed the engineering and applications tests and is proceeding to the full suite of testing to go into production. We expect the final firmware for the MSO1000Z and DS1000Z series to be released by December 19th with the MSO2000A, DS2000A, and DS2000 firmware to follow and to be available by toward the end of December. The final releases will be accompanied by complete release notes, but in the spirit of our partnership with EEVBlog we wanted to make our DS1000Z customers who are seeing problems or are concerned about these issues to have immediate availability of the beta firmware. This beta firmware comes with the usual beta warnings. In our initial testing we have found no issue upgrading or loading these firmware files, but as with all beta code you load this at your own risk with the possibility that your oscilloscope may not work correctly. Rigol will support you as we can once a final release is available, but there is always a possibility of a serious or unrecoverable issue. Any customers at all concerned about this possibility should wait for the final release, but for our friends at EEVBlog we wanted to make the beta firmware immediately available for those who would like it.
You can download the beta MSO1000Z and DS1000Z firmware here: http://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/attachment/1579/f-0576/1/-/-/-/-/DS1000ZUpdate.zip

To update, please follow these instructions:
1)  Choose a USB memory stick that is recognized by the Scope. When the USB stick is inserted into the USB connection at the front of the scope, the scope should show a USB device detected.
2) Download the DS1000ZUpdate.GEL file. Extract it from the zip file to the primary partition of the USB stick.
3) When the USB stick is inserted, the scope should detect the new firmware and offer a firmware upgrade option.
Confirm that you wish to upgrade and the scope should then upgrade the firmware.
4) Make certain that the power and the USB drive are not disturbed or disconnected during the upgrade process.
5) When complete the DS1000Z will prompt you that the upgrade was successful and ask you to reboot using the front power button.

Lastly, if anyone has questions or concerns they want to discuss with us, we are always here. Contact your local Rigol office or distribution partner. Our USA number is 877-4-RIGOL-1. Every DS1000Z bought in the USA is under our 3 year warranty program and Rigol quality is important to us all over the world.

Thanks,

Chris Armstrong
Director of Product Marketing & SW Applications
Rigol Technologies
10200 SW Allen Blvd.  Suite C
Beaverton, OR 97005
office/fax: 877-4-RIGOL-1
 

Offline jkrichards

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #476 on: November 26, 2014, 11:38:50 pm »
Thank You Rigol and Chris Armstrong!   :-+  Is it possible to get the latest firmware in case we would need to go back?  Would this be possible as past firmware would not allow this.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 11:41:59 pm by jkrichards »
 

Offline xnaron

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #477 on: November 27, 2014, 03:04:23 am »
Wow...the silence is deafening... I would have thought there would be a bunch of posts by now on whether the new firmware fixed the issues.  I would test but don't have a signal generator.  Anyone?
 

Offline Nonorthogonal

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #478 on: November 27, 2014, 03:28:57 am »
IT'S FIXED!!

Chris, you're awesome!! Don't listen to the haters on Internet forums, you're doing terrific work!!  :)

Everyone have a Happy Thanksgiving (US) with your fixed Rigol scope.

 

Offline leppie

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Offline sawmilkd

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #480 on: November 27, 2014, 04:13:46 am »
First time poster. Read through the entire thread tonight, verified both issues (5us jitter, ac trigger coupling). Testing new firmware. Verified it fixed these issues.

Test setup:
Scope: DS1054Z (unlocked all options)
Probe: As delivered Rigol probe, 1X configuration, compensated via test signal square wave
Reference Clock for Test: 20MHz can oscillator on breadboard. Driven at 3.3V.

Original configuration, DC coupled input, DC coupled trigger, no trigger offset:


Original configuration, DC coupled input, DC coupled trigger, 5us trigger offset:


Original configuration, DC coupled input,AC coupled trigger (0V), 0us trigger offset:


** AFTER BETA FIRMWARE UPDATE **

S/W 00.04.02.SP3, DC coupled input, DC coupled trigger, no trigger offset:


S/W 00.04.02.SP3, DC coupled input, DC coupled trigger, 5us trigger offset:


S/W 00.04.02.SP3, DC coupled input,AC coupled trigger (0V), 0us trigger offset:


Sorry the V/div and us/div are not consistent. I was excited to see everything working and didn't keep notes between screen grabs!
After the firmware update, all of my options remain unlocked, for those who suffered through entering all of those keys!

**UPDATE THIS AM**
None of the buttons work if I power up the oscilloscope without the USB stick used to flash the scope installed. If I power cycle with the USB stick in, I hear a "beep" on power up (normally quiet as I have sound disabled). Then the message box appears to update firmware with the same version on the USB stick. I select cancel, and everything works fine after that. Very odd. I can also confirm that the software version shown in the System panel is not updating after the flash.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 03:28:16 pm by sawmilkd »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #481 on: November 27, 2014, 04:40:41 am »
Forgive my ignorance, what is the squarewave 20 MHz indicator on screen after the firmware update?
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline Bud

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #482 on: November 27, 2014, 04:45:13 am »
OK sounds good. So when MarkL is back from holidays hopefully he can re-measure the 4360-7 PLL and if it now operates properly than it was the root cause of the problem.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline leppie

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #483 on: November 27, 2014, 05:29:05 am »
Forgive my ignorance, what is the squarewave 20 MHz indicator on screen after the firmware update?

That is an existing measure option you can turn on, always been there.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #484 on: November 27, 2014, 05:34:29 am »
Forgive my ignorance, what is the squarewave 20 MHz indicator on screen after the firmware update?

That is an existing measure option you can turn on, always been there.
On-screen Frequency counter....right. Thanks
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Offline pickle9000

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #485 on: November 27, 2014, 05:36:48 am »
I can just about smell a quick eevblog followup video.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #486 on: November 27, 2014, 05:55:42 am »
I can just about smell a quick eevblog followup video.
Quote
This beta firmware comes with the usual beta warnings.
We expect the final firmware for the MSO1000Z and DS1000Z series to be released by December 19th
Wouldn't it be prudent to ensure any fix is widespread first?
And no longer a Beta version?
You wouldn't want to see a repeat of a recent Siglent firmware blunder.  :palm:
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Offline pickle9000

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #487 on: November 27, 2014, 06:04:39 am »
I think it would be a time will tell video, as it should be.

To be honest I wouldn't put beta firmware out.
 

Offline poida_pie

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #488 on: November 27, 2014, 08:13:19 am »
I tried the beta firmware and I want to make it clear that you need to beware.

At first I applied the procedure detailed by Chris in this post
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-683-rigol-ds1000z-ds2000-oscilloscope-jitter-problems/msg558457/#msg558457

And after a reboot it did not change the firmware reported by showing the system info, it remains at 00.04.02.03.SP3
and not 00.04.02.03.09.

Of course it did not fix the 5us jitter issue. It made it worse.

See the below images, using the latest BETA firmware.
I add two images using my DS2072 DSO input the same signal, via same cable, 50 ohm termination etc
to illustrate the signal has no jitter.
Check out
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-683-rigol-ds1000z-ds2000-oscilloscope-jitter-problems/msg553033/#msg553033
for more from my DS1054Z before the beta firmware.

The state that my DSO was in may be important. I had applied the option code to make all options permanent
and so the DSO thought it was a DS1104Z when the firmware was updated.
This was a mistake it seems.

 

Offline marmad

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #489 on: November 27, 2014, 10:48:30 am »
Rigol has created updated firmware for the MSO1000Z and DS1000Z series of scopes in immediate response to the issues found by Dave and the EEVBlog community.

Lastly, if anyone has questions or concerns they want to discuss with us, we are always here. Contact your local Rigol office or distribution partner. Our USA number is 877-4-RIGOL-1. Every DS1000Z bought in the USA is under our 3 year warranty program and Rigol quality is important to us all over the world.

Thanks,

Chris Armstrong
Director of Product Marketing & SW Applications
Rigol Technologies
10200 SW Allen Blvd.  Suite C
Beaverton, OR 97005
office/fax: 877-4-RIGOL-1

@Chris Armstrong - Firstly, thanks to Rigol for addressing and responding to this issue in terms of the 1000Z series. I applied the fix and it works fine on the MSO1074Z I have.

Two questions:

1) Can owners of the DS2000(A) expect a similar fix soon? The AC-coupled trigger-jitter and offset problems were reported to Rigol USA about a year and a half ago.

2) Since Rigol is in a jitter-fixing mode, could they perhaps also tackle the issue of the 8ns jitter on the Trigger Output? This bug makes the use of the Trigger Output problematic at best, and was first noticed on the DS2000 and reported about 2 years ago. It is also present on all of the MSO/DS1000Z models, as shown in my attached image (Channel 3 is the Trigger Output fed back into the DSO displaying the ~8ns of jitter).
 

Offline leppie

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #490 on: November 27, 2014, 11:19:19 am »
4.43GV/s sounds impressive ;p
 

Offline leppie

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #491 on: November 27, 2014, 02:31:27 pm »
I applied the fix and it works fine on the MSO1074Z I have.

I did too, but as the other person said, the version says SP3, and every time it still detects the update file. Is this correct behavior?
 

Offline marmad

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #492 on: November 27, 2014, 02:36:30 pm »
I applied the fix and it works fine on the MSO1074Z I have.

I did too, but as the other person said, the version says SP3, and every time it still detects the update file. Is this correct behavior?

Yes.
 

Offline leppie

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #493 on: November 27, 2014, 02:42:25 pm »
I applied the fix and it works fine on the MSO1074Z I have.

I did too, but as the other person said, the version says SP3, and every time it still detects the update file. Is this correct behavior?

Yes.

Thanks :)

I dont have a good source to test, but I seems similar to poida_pie's screens. :(

Going to let it warm up a bit and try calibration.
 

Offline leppie

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #494 on: November 27, 2014, 02:54:15 pm »
Just checked my previous captures. 125MHz crystal.

Previously, no jitter at 10us, now just jitter all over the place.

At 250ns, the jitter looks identical, so it seems it just gets worse progressively with no improvement after 5us as previously.

So maybe the update helps some units, but not for others...   :'(

Does someone have a copy of the previous firmware? If so, can you post it please.

From the previous firmware, no jitter at 10us


New (beta) firmware, just a mess...

« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 03:16:29 pm by leppie »
 

Offline marmad

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #495 on: November 27, 2014, 03:34:15 pm »
Previously, no jitter at 10us, now just jitter all over the place.

First of all, you should perhaps specify exactly what it is you are testing. In your images, it shows the input channel as AC-coupled. The two reported bugs were jitter with DC-coupling of channel at 5us - and jitter of anAC-coupled trigger.

To avoid the spread of misinformation: if people are having problems with this BETA FW - they should probably specify precisely what they are doing and with what input source.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 03:38:14 pm by marmad »
 

Offline leppie

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #496 on: November 27, 2014, 03:38:46 pm »
Previously, no jitter at 10us, now just jitter all over the place.

First of all, you should perhaps specify exactly what it is you are testing. In your images, it shows the input channel as AC-coupled. The two reported bugs were jitter with DC-coupling of channel at 5us - and jitter with AC-coupling of trigger.

To avoid the spread of misinformation: if people are having problems with this BETA FW - they should probably specify precisely what they are doing and with what input source.

This is for the 5us jitter issue, where multiples of 10us was jitter free previously (well up to a point).

Does it really matter how the input is coupled? I just faithfully recreated what I did previously (yes, the amplitude is slightly more, missed that ;p). The channel is using DC coupled trigger (if would show no offset marker if it was AC coupled trigger), and it shows at 10us the trigger was working without jitter. Input source is a 125MHz crystal as mentioned.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 03:42:30 pm by leppie »
 

Offline sawmilkd

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #497 on: November 27, 2014, 03:45:04 pm »
I just updated my previous post regarding the beta firmware patch w/ a potential big issue. I have a DS1054Z, board version 0.1.1. Upon powering up this AM, everything "seemed" to be working fine (visibly triggering on my 20MHz test oscillator circuit from yesterday). However, none of the front panel buttons or knobs have any effect. They are all dead. Power cycling had no effect. The only way I was able to get control was to plug back in the USB stick I used last night to flash the new firmware BEFORE powering on the DS1054Z. The startup sequence was slightly different (a beep was present that is not normally there). After initialization, the firmware update box is presented (though it says it's the same version that's installed, but not the same version shown on the System information display). If I select cancel, the dialog box goes away, and the scope can be operated normally.

My DS1054Z is 100MHz unlocked. Perhaps there is a model mismatch causing trouble? Maybe Rigol was serious regarding beta status....

Anyone else experiencing this issue?
 

Offline leppie

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #498 on: November 27, 2014, 03:48:50 pm »
I just updated my previous post regarding the beta firmware patch w/ a potential big issue. I have a DS1054Z, board version 0.1.1. Upon powering up this AM, everything "seemed" to be working fine (visibly triggering on my 20MHz test oscillator circuit from yesterday). However, none of the front panel buttons or knobs have any effect. They are all dead. Power cycling had no effect. The only way I was able to get control was to plug back in the USB stick I used last night to flash the new firmware BEFORE powering on the DS1054Z. The startup sequence was slightly different (a beep was present that is not normally there). After initialization, the firmware update box is presented (though it says it's the same version that's installed, but not the same version shown on the System information display). If I select cancel, the dialog box goes away, and the scope can be operated normally.

My DS1054Z is 100MHz unlocked. Perhaps there is a model mismatch causing trouble? Maybe Rigol was serious regarding beta status....

Anyone else experiencing this issue?

Yes, had the same. Also a lock up as you said after calibration. Restart fixed it. I think the beep means it has done a firmware update (I did it twice to be sure, happened both times).
 

Offline marmad

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #499 on: November 27, 2014, 03:52:07 pm »
Does it really matter how the input is coupled? I just faithfully recreated what I did previously

The point is that you didn't faithfully recreate what Dave did - or how the bug was reported. Perhaps you've discovered a different bug - or a related one that has yet to be fixed - but it's not the conditions of the original bug.
 


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